2021 Acura TLX vs The Competition
#1001
At $52K Type S is not overpriced... Given that IS350 is at $55K expect IS500 to start at $60K add some options and you are at $65K. IS500 will still get smoked by the 340M so that should make it a failure based on most comments in the Type S threads especially at that price point.
#1002
Burning Brakes
At $52K Type S is not overpriced... Given that IS350 is at $55K expect IS500 to start at $60K add some options and you are at $65K. IS500 will still get smoked by the 340M so that should make it a failure based on most comments in the Type S threads especially at that price point.
#1004
Burning Brakes
#1005
#1006
Who said it shouldn’t be compared? Show me where I said that. I said everybody already knows the performance of that engine and what it can do , it’s over 10 years old and respected by anybody into performance. That engine is a lot closer to the M340 performance wise than that trash Acura put out . It also did it without needing turbos. Guaranteed that IS500 will demolish the Type S. It will be faster than the S4 as well.
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#1007
#1008
love how some can dish it out but cant take it
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Legend2TL (08-14-2021)
#1009
Burning Brakes
calm down triggered? LOL ok. The type S engine is trash by comparison to the supposed competition. A 10+ year old motor has more HP and Torque and is NA , than something Acura has been developing for 12 years so yes it’s trash. The F cars with the same engine can’t compete with the Germans they were targeting its well known , the specs of this motor have been known for 10 years so I’m not sure the false equivalency you’re trying to bring up like the situation with the IS500 is the same as a brand new motor by Acura.
#1010
Burning Brakes
what does that have to do with the fact the Acura engine took 12 years to develop and has less power than a 10 year old engine? Thanks for quoting my point again. We already know what the power numbers will be just look at the RCF for comparison 4.1-4.2 0-60 vs 5 seconds for the Type S .
Last edited by Kense; 08-14-2021 at 01:07 PM.
#1011
AZ Community Team
what does that have to do with the fact the Acura engine took 12 years to develop and has less power than a 10 year old engine? Thanks for quoting my point again. We already know what the power numbers will be just look at the RCF for comparison 4.1-4.2 0-60 vs 5 seconds for the Type S .
#1012
Three Wheelin'
At $52K Type S is not overpriced... Given that IS350 is at $55K expect IS500 to start at $60K add some options and you are at $65K. IS500 will still get smoked by the 340M so that should make it a failure based on most comments in the Type S threads especially at that price point.
https://www.cars.com/shopping/result...=250&zip=78028
Last edited by jjsC5; 08-14-2021 at 01:36 PM.
#1013
I just looked at cars.com. Lots of IS 350 F-Sports listed between $46-48,000
https://www.cars.com/shopping/result...=250&zip=78028
https://www.cars.com/shopping/result...=250&zip=78028
Last edited by Nexx; 08-14-2021 at 01:45 PM.
#1014
#1015
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At $52K Type S is not overpriced... Given that IS350 is at $55K expect IS500 to start at $60K add some options and you are at $65K. IS500 will still get smoked by the 340M so that should make it a failure based on most comments in the Type S threads especially at that price point.
Too many people here are selling the branding short when saying what is over priced & what cars really are the TLX, TLX-S competitors. This chart indicates peoples interest in luxury brands by internet activity. You can find all kinds of data that will move the ranking around but buying patterns pretty much follow the listing. People buy what they show interest in. When you look at the chart remember its BRANDS not specific cars.
That said it does indicate which brands people are willing to buy based on their interest in the brand.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 08-14-2021 at 02:08 PM.
#1016
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#1017
AZ Community Team
Not really, in the US Cadillac did ~130k sales in 2020, Lexus did ~275k, BMW did ~279k
Yet BMW had ~5x more internet social interest over Lexus yet their sales are almost the same.
Market name brand perception is not always equal to actual sales.
Yet BMW had ~5x more internet social interest over Lexus yet their sales are almost the same.
Market name brand perception is not always equal to actual sales.
Think the issue is people in general value the Lexus brand much higher than the Acura brand even if the cars are basically identical. The Lexus V8 will go into the same bucket as the Audi S4 & MB C43AMG. They are not M340's but they are desirable premium cars from a Luxury car manufacturer.
Too many people here are selling the branding short when saying what is over priced & what cars really are the TLX, TLX-S competitors. This chart indicates peoples interest in luxury brands by internet activity. You can find all kinds of data that will move the ranking around but buying patterns pretty much follow the listing. People buy what they show interest in. When you look at the chart remember its BRANDS not specific cars.
That said it does indicate which brands people are willing to buy based on their interest in the brand.
Too many people here are selling the branding short when saying what is over priced & what cars really are the TLX, TLX-S competitors. This chart indicates peoples interest in luxury brands by internet activity. You can find all kinds of data that will move the ranking around but buying patterns pretty much follow the listing. People buy what they show interest in. When you look at the chart remember its BRANDS not specific cars.
That said it does indicate which brands people are willing to buy based on their interest in the brand.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-14-2021 at 02:33 PM.
#1018
AZ Community Team
My guestimate on the Type-S engine was 3-4 years considering Honda/Acura started with the J short block design and only did a derivative block
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-14-2021 at 02:43 PM.
#1020
what does that have to do with the fact the Acura engine took 12 years to develop and has less power than a 10 year old engine? Thanks for quoting my point again. We already know what the power numbers will be just look at the RCF for comparison 4.1-4.2 0-60 vs 5 seconds for the Type S .
#1021
They would have decided to develop V6T only after seeing dismal sales of RLX sport hybrid (a very good system screwed up by Acura marketing anyways).
#1022
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
What i'm about to say is just my views on the topic at hand with the development of the 3.0T vs the ancient J-series. A reliable friend of mine (which some might know him) P.Ridden, has a source he obtains information from. He did claim someone from Acura Corporate is "watching" this forum. With that being said, installing a turbo on a J-series isn't new news. The 1st Turbo 3rd gen TL was done by Rodney back in 2008-2009. The design has always been similar to what Acura has done with the 3.0T, excluding the engineering and development to make a "Better" engine with current technology at their disposable. So,as others have shared the same conclusion, that Acura MAY have borrowed the design idea's from enthusiasts here. Mind you, I as well as others are WELL AWARE that the C20AT engine has a similar design as well. So chicken or the egg theory, which one was the borrowed designed, if borrowed.
Here is my issue with Acura. The members here are generally just car guys or enthusiasts (more so back then). Rodney Brown was the type of enthusiast (like others) that wanted to turbo his TL and it had to be done from scratch. This guy didn't work for Acura as an engineer, developing engines ect. He did his homework and got his hands dirty to prove those that doubted him wrong. He did the "impossible".. Where am I getting at with this? Well simple.. If Acura has been developing the J30AT for the last 4 to 5 years, after all the years of engine developments and designs including the 3.5 TT NSX engine, it is without a doubt a disappointment. They had everything at their disposal to make something great and they didn't..
I will keep mentioning this, as my J32 is an ancient engine. Without 6 bolt mains or forged internals. Yet running barely 5 PSI, stock injectors, stock ECU, stock fuel pump, It puts down a healthy 334 wHP (prior to more mods). The J32 can handle at max 9 PSI and I've seen numbers well over 400 wHP. So that being said, It is a huge disappointment that Acura has developed an engine that is well capable of handling more power and yet, it simply doesn't. All the engineering wording and details doesn't mean much when it just barely hit 285 wHP. This is why a lot of people say it's a giant step backwards. Acura is pushing 15 PSI on this engine and it's clear as day that it's being choked out either by restrictive heads (flow) or an undersized turbo or both, which is likely both.
To me, the heart and soul is what powers the vehicle. It's the thrill you get behind the noise the power the feel.
I do hope the integra goes back to it's roots and doesn't disappoint. This is an Acura i'm looking forward for it's success and to bring back what Acura was about.
Here is my issue with Acura. The members here are generally just car guys or enthusiasts (more so back then). Rodney Brown was the type of enthusiast (like others) that wanted to turbo his TL and it had to be done from scratch. This guy didn't work for Acura as an engineer, developing engines ect. He did his homework and got his hands dirty to prove those that doubted him wrong. He did the "impossible".. Where am I getting at with this? Well simple.. If Acura has been developing the J30AT for the last 4 to 5 years, after all the years of engine developments and designs including the 3.5 TT NSX engine, it is without a doubt a disappointment. They had everything at their disposal to make something great and they didn't..
I will keep mentioning this, as my J32 is an ancient engine. Without 6 bolt mains or forged internals. Yet running barely 5 PSI, stock injectors, stock ECU, stock fuel pump, It puts down a healthy 334 wHP (prior to more mods). The J32 can handle at max 9 PSI and I've seen numbers well over 400 wHP. So that being said, It is a huge disappointment that Acura has developed an engine that is well capable of handling more power and yet, it simply doesn't. All the engineering wording and details doesn't mean much when it just barely hit 285 wHP. This is why a lot of people say it's a giant step backwards. Acura is pushing 15 PSI on this engine and it's clear as day that it's being choked out either by restrictive heads (flow) or an undersized turbo or both, which is likely both.
To me, the heart and soul is what powers the vehicle. It's the thrill you get behind the noise the power the feel.
I do hope the integra goes back to it's roots and doesn't disappoint. This is an Acura i'm looking forward for it's success and to bring back what Acura was about.
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#1023
AZ Community Team
What's sorta amusing is GM is using a 2G NSX as a test mule for the expected C8 Hybrid which are being tested now
#1024
Burning Brakes
Complains about Acura taking a long time to develop a turbo engine and at the same time praising Lexus for using an outdated ancient V8 for over a decade which when brand new was already behind German competition. Don't get me wrong, IS500 will be a great car but it's not going to lead anything in its class and trashing Acura at the same time makes no sense either.
Last edited by Kense; 08-14-2021 at 07:13 PM.
#1025
What part makes no sense? That “outdated” engine is way more powerful than Acura’s new engine. You don’t find that sad? That is pathetic actually. By the way F cars are track cars and will post pretty good track times. The IS500 is not a track car but a Japanese muscle car which will still be faster than the type s and will be a limited production car which is why the price will be high. Why does the type s price have so much dealer ADM? It doesn’t even perform up to par. It’s not limited to 500 or 1000 like the IS500 will be. I would take that old Lexus V8 over a type S any day of the week and pay more for it too. V8’s are going away. By the way a real ISF will be coming out as well which will actually compete with the German big boy cars like the M3/4 and C63 AMG.
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mike03a3 (08-21-2021)
#1026
Here are C&D's numbers for the RC-F with a curb weight of about 4,017lbs ... about what I'd expect the IS500 to weigh. Being the same powertrain, I'd suspect the numbers to be almost identical.
60 mph: 4.1 sec
100 mph: 10.0 sec
130 mph: 17.0 sec
150 mph: 24.6 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.5 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.0 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
1/4 mile: 12.7 sec @ 113 mph
Plus, the added fun of the sound of a V8, and the reliability that comes with it. It is on the same level as the M340i, which we all agree is in a different league than the Type-S. The M340i xDrive has the advantage of AWD, hence why it's quicker to 60 and has a lower ET in the quarter. On the big end, the time to 150MPH is identical and its trap speed is only 1MPH less. 5-60MPH time of the RC-F is actually better than the M340i.
But, as we've said before, it all comes down to pricing. If they start it at just under $60k, the Type-S will be an afterthought, especially with it coming to light how restricted those heads are. Even a turbo swap likely won't be enough to really wring out good power until you let those heads breathe. Great for a daily that you want to zip around town ... not for the likes of me that wants to take my anger issues out on an open freeway.
60 mph: 4.1 sec
100 mph: 10.0 sec
130 mph: 17.0 sec
150 mph: 24.6 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.5 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.0 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
1/4 mile: 12.7 sec @ 113 mph
Plus, the added fun of the sound of a V8, and the reliability that comes with it. It is on the same level as the M340i, which we all agree is in a different league than the Type-S. The M340i xDrive has the advantage of AWD, hence why it's quicker to 60 and has a lower ET in the quarter. On the big end, the time to 150MPH is identical and its trap speed is only 1MPH less. 5-60MPH time of the RC-F is actually better than the M340i.
But, as we've said before, it all comes down to pricing. If they start it at just under $60k, the Type-S will be an afterthought, especially with it coming to light how restricted those heads are. Even a turbo swap likely won't be enough to really wring out good power until you let those heads breathe. Great for a daily that you want to zip around town ... not for the likes of me that wants to take my anger issues out on an open freeway.
#1027
Burning Brakes
It’s a discussion forum I realize some of you on here are very sensitive and protective over Acura like the brand is your father but Acura doesn’t give a shit about you. Stop being so emotionally tied to a material depreciating asset. Besides I Have an M340i no need for the Lexus.
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#1028
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BTW what is so special about the NSX drive train?
#1029
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Maybe, Maybe not. Would not expect Cadillac an outlier to be high up in the internet & social media usage with their older customer base. That said the top of the mainstream luxury brands list, before you get to the exoctics, pretty much follows the trend set in the displayed interest in the brands. Notice how Acura is not even there. BMW so far has sold 167,994 in the first half of 2021. If the government doesn't kill the economy printing money they should be in the 336.000 unit range for the year.
#1030
Here are C&D's numbers for the RC-F with a curb weight of about 4,017lbs ... about what I'd expect the IS500 to weigh. Being the same powertrain, I'd suspect the numbers to be almost identical.
60 mph: 4.1 sec
100 mph: 10.0 sec
130 mph: 17.0 sec
150 mph: 24.6 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.5 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.0 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
1/4 mile: 12.7 sec @ 113 mph
Plus, the added fun of the sound of a V8, and the reliability that comes with it. It is on the same level as the M340i, which we all agree is in a different league than the Type-S. The M340i xDrive has the advantage of AWD, hence why it's quicker to 60 and has a lower ET in the quarter. On the big end, the time to 150MPH is identical and its trap speed is only 1MPH less. 5-60MPH time of the RC-F is actually better than the M340i.
But, as we've said before, it all comes down to pricing. If they start it at just under $60k, the Type-S will be an afterthought, especially with it coming to light how restricted those heads are. Even a turbo swap likely won't be enough to really wring out good power until you let those heads breathe. Great for a daily that you want to zip around town ... not for the likes of me that wants to take my anger issues out on an open freeway.
60 mph: 4.1 sec
100 mph: 10.0 sec
130 mph: 17.0 sec
150 mph: 24.6 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.5 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.0 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
1/4 mile: 12.7 sec @ 113 mph
Plus, the added fun of the sound of a V8, and the reliability that comes with it. It is on the same level as the M340i, which we all agree is in a different league than the Type-S. The M340i xDrive has the advantage of AWD, hence why it's quicker to 60 and has a lower ET in the quarter. On the big end, the time to 150MPH is identical and its trap speed is only 1MPH less. 5-60MPH time of the RC-F is actually better than the M340i.
But, as we've said before, it all comes down to pricing. If they start it at just under $60k, the Type-S will be an afterthought, especially with it coming to light how restricted those heads are. Even a turbo swap likely won't be enough to really wring out good power until you let those heads breathe. Great for a daily that you want to zip around town ... not for the likes of me that wants to take my anger issues out on an open freeway.
#1031
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Why would someone who wants a V8 that performs well buy a 6 with equal performance? Muscle cars have a sound you just can't fake with a 6. The whole thing is about choice when things are close you buy which one you personally like the best. Its not like the 500 would get blown away like the TLX-S by the M340.
#1032
Why would someone who wants a V8 that performs well buy a 6 with equal performance? Muscle cars have a sound you just can't fake with a 6. The whole thing is about choice when things are close you buy which one you personally like the best. Its not like the 500 would get blown away like the TLX-S by the M340.
#1033
Burning Brakes
Why would someone who wants a V8 that performs well buy a 6 with equal performance? Muscle cars have a sound you just can't fake with a 6. The whole thing is about choice when things are close you buy which one you personally like the best. Its not like the 500 would get blown away like the TLX-S by the M340.
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#1034
It sounds like you've never driven a car with the 2UR-GSE, because if you have, you'd understand what makes them so special. As good of a car as the M340i is, I'll take the 2UR over the B58 motor any day of the week. If I wanted the absolute fastest car in a straight line at that price point, I'd get a Model 3. If I wanted to set lap times, I'd get an M3. And if I wanted the most exciting and enjoyable engine hands down, I would get the IS500.
Last edited by fiatlux; 08-14-2021 at 09:50 PM.
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#1035
Hopefully we find out in under a month as to what is what.
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#1036
It sounds like you've never driven a car with the 2UR-GSE, because if you have, you'd understand what makes them so special. As good of a car as the M340i is, I'll take the 2UR over the B58 motor any day of the week. If I wanted the absolute fastest car in a straight line at that price point, I'd get a Model 3. If I wanted to set lap times, I'd get an M3. And if I wanted the most exciting and enjoyable engine hands down, I would get the IS500.
#1037
The RCF costs much more than the RC350F because it has a bunch of extra features to make it more track capable. The IS500 likely won't have those things, so the premium over the IS350 should be smaller. There is no way the IS500 will cost most more than the RCF, which is why most people are expecting it to start right around $60K. And at that price, it's a very compelling option.
#1038
The RCF costs much more than the RC350F because it has a bunch of extra features to make it more track capable. The IS500 likely won't have those things, so the premium over the IS350 should be smaller. There is no way the IS500 will cost most more than the RCF, which is why most people are expecting it to start right around $60K. And at that price, it's a very compelling option.
#1039
Lexus knows their customers are more price sensitive than the competition; hence why reliability and low operating costs is such a high priority.
Last edited by fiatlux; 08-14-2021 at 10:41 PM.
#1040
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Its still a final 4 prestige brand with a V8. BMW has more cache but you need to go to the 5 series to get an V8.