When do you think the next gen TL (TLX) will be released?
11-18-2013, 08:16 AM
#1601
Burning Brakes
Ding! Ding! Ding! You hit the nail right on it's head.
We are trying to learn from why the horse has dropped dead prematurely.
All ECU's/controllers need firmware (= program codes for hardware) to be able to function.
So even if Nissan has 100 ECU's in a decuple decplex fault tolerant system, poor/glitchy firmware programming (for the ECU's) is still gonna cause terminal failure when all the right conditions are met for glitches to pop up.
But why US military products (e.g., the F-16 you brought up) are so reliable, comparatively speaking, because there are Military Standards that contractors must strictly adhere to in firmware development, firmware verification/testing, and system integration, in order to minimize, if not eliminate, firmware bugs/glitches.
In addition, multiple levels of redundancy in firmware programming are required in critical operation sub-systems, to safeguard firmware from causing unintentional faults and runaway issues.
All these involve considerably resources (manpower, time, and $) which not only adds unnecessary cost but is also an overkill for developing consumer products such as automobiles.
Not even the biggest motor company in Japan (Toyota) develops it's products using US military standards, let alone the smallish Nissan Motor Co.
But I must admit that mechanical systems do also fail at times. But when they fail, it is because some parts broke.
But when poor/glitchy programming causing ECU's to fail, more than likely it is a random come-and-go process, and is extremely hard to replicate. Good luck trying to show randomly occurring faults to dealership techs.
Worst still is that everything will go back normal afterwards, only lurking until the next failure to hit home, when all the right firmware-program-flow conditions are met once again to cause another glitch in the unknown future.
We are trying to learn from why the horse has dropped dead prematurely.
All ECU's/controllers need firmware (= program codes for hardware) to be able to function.
So even if Nissan has 100 ECU's in a decuple decplex fault tolerant system, poor/glitchy firmware programming (for the ECU's) is still gonna cause terminal failure when all the right conditions are met for glitches to pop up.
But why US military products (e.g., the F-16 you brought up) are so reliable, comparatively speaking, because there are Military Standards that contractors must strictly adhere to in firmware development, firmware verification/testing, and system integration, in order to minimize, if not eliminate, firmware bugs/glitches.
In addition, multiple levels of redundancy in firmware programming are required in critical operation sub-systems, to safeguard firmware from causing unintentional faults and runaway issues.
All these involve considerably resources (manpower, time, and $) which not only adds unnecessary cost but is also an overkill for developing consumer products such as automobiles.
Not even the biggest motor company in Japan (Toyota) develops it's products using US military standards, let alone the smallish Nissan Motor Co.
But I must admit that mechanical systems do also fail at times. But when they fail, it is because some parts broke.
But when poor/glitchy programming causing ECU's to fail, more than likely it is a random come-and-go process, and is extremely hard to replicate. Good luck trying to show randomly occurring faults to dealership techs.
Worst still is that everything will go back normal afterwards, only lurking until the next failure to hit home, when all the right firmware-program-flow conditions are met once again to cause another glitch in the unknown future.
Stuff happens. Unanticipated stuff happens and the designers and engineers learn from it.
I would have no qualms trusting my life to a Q50. I'm sure the systems are 99% safe. On every car the systems are 99% safe, there always will be incidents that happen that make you scratch your head.
I don't know what's worse, not being able to steer or having a transmission fall out of the car. Stuff happens.
11-18-2013, 11:52 AM
#1602
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And they said the horseless carriage was just a passing fad & if god intended man to fly he would have given them wings.
11-18-2013, 01:34 PM
#1604
6G TLX-S
.....
I would have no qualms trusting my life to a Q50. I'm sure the systems are 99% safe. On every car the systems are 99% safe, there always will be incidents that happen that make you scratch your head.
I don't know what's worse, not being able to steer or having a transmission fall out of the car. Stuff happens.
Go and prove yourself. Buy the Q50 with DAS, and drive it everyday.
11-18-2013, 06:28 PM
#1605
Burning Brakes
Next year we will see.
11-19-2013, 04:11 PM
#1607
"Tetsuo Iwamura, CEO of American Honda Motor Co., declined to say which of the automaker's U.S. nameplates would get which engines. But Iwamura, who also heads Honda's automobile operations globally, said the automaker plans to switch its existing gasoline engines to turbos "as much as possible."
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#ixzz2l8FWr6Gt
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#ixzz2l8FWr6Gt
11-19-2013, 04:44 PM
#1608
I have been saying for a while that I suspect the TLX will have a 4 turbo and a V6 and this could be the proof we needed 
11-19-2013, 06:41 PM
#1609
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
11-19-2013, 06:58 PM
#1610
From the article MtnMan posted :
The 2.0-liter turbo will debut first, in mid-2015, in a European-market Civic given the Type R designation. Matsumochi said Honda is studying U.S. use.
The 2.0-liter turbo will debut first, in mid-2015, in a European-market Civic given the Type R designation. Matsumochi said Honda is studying U.S. use.
11-19-2013, 08:10 PM
#1611
Safety Car
Spring
How Honda Will Fix Acura
Much of Acura's sedan revival, though, hinges on the new TLX sedan, which replaces the current TSX and TL sedans. That will whittle the lineup down to 3 distinct cars: 1 compact, 1 midsize, and 1 full-size. Iwamura confirmed that the all-new TLX will debut in the spring.
11-19-2013, 08:15 PM
#1612
Suzuka Master
http://wot.motortrend.com/1311_how_h...otor_show.html
OK how Honda will fix Acura, yeah and they say TLX in spring, at least they know their sedans need work. They acknowledge the ILX and RLX are not doing well, dah! They seem to know what is hurting them, they just do not know how to fix it. Honestly the NSX, while nice, is a waste of resources and distracts them from fixing the sedans.
OK how Honda will fix Acura, yeah and they say TLX in spring, at least they know their sedans need work. They acknowledge the ILX and RLX are not doing well, dah! They seem to know what is hurting them, they just do not know how to fix it. Honestly the NSX, while nice, is a waste of resources and distracts them from fixing the sedans.
11-19-2013, 09:17 PM
#1614
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http://wot.motortrend.com/1311_how_h...otor_show.html
OK how Honda will fix Acura, yeah and they say TLX in spring, at least they know their sedans need work. They acknowledge the ILX and RLX are not doing well, dah! They seem to know what is hurting them, they just do not know how to fix it. Honestly the NSX, while nice, is a waste of resources and distracts them from fixing the sedans.
OK how Honda will fix Acura, yeah and they say TLX in spring, at least they know their sedans need work. They acknowledge the ILX and RLX are not doing well, dah! They seem to know what is hurting them, they just do not know how to fix it. Honestly the NSX, while nice, is a waste of resources and distracts them from fixing the sedans.
11-19-2013, 09:40 PM
#1615
6G TLX-S
"Tetsuo Iwamura, CEO of American Honda Motor Co., declined to say which of the automaker's U.S. nameplates would get which engines. But Iwamura, who also heads Honda's automobile operations globally, said the automaker plans to switch its existing gasoline engines to turbos "as much as possible."
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#ixzz2l8FWr6Gt
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#ixzz2l8FWr6Gt
11-19-2013, 10:57 PM
#1616
How Honda Will Fix Acura
Much of Acura's sedan revival, though, hinges on the new TLX sedan, which replaces the current TSX and TL sedans. That will whittle the lineup down to 3 distinct cars: 1 compact, 1 midsize, and 1 full-size. Iwamura confirmed that the all-new TLX will debut in the spring.
Much of Acura's sedan revival, though, hinges on the new TLX sedan, which replaces the current TSX and TL sedans. That will whittle the lineup down to 3 distinct cars: 1 compact, 1 midsize, and 1 full-size. Iwamura confirmed that the all-new TLX will debut in the spring.
11-20-2013, 05:36 PM
#1618
11-20-2013, 06:56 PM
#1620
...and keep me posted on the reliability of your Audi. I was driving this morning and saw a white Audi S5 and let me just say that I nearly went wild!! What a gorgeous car.
11-20-2013, 07:45 PM
#1621
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I've noticed that Audi are doing much better with Consumer Reports than they used to do, and their talking heads mention the A6 as the main reason.
Audi options list confuse me, however. They're almost as bad as Porsche! :-)
Audi options list confuse me, however. They're almost as bad as Porsche! :-)
11-21-2013, 03:03 AM
#1622
Summer is Coming
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/11/201...kes-debut.html
Honda is maintaining the J35 V-6 so I think the turbo engines will end up on smaller cars like the Civic Type R and that new urban SUV. Maybe the ILX.
11-21-2013, 07:07 AM
#1623
You are probably right about the turbos only targeting the smaller cars. But the new NSX is a twin turbo V6. Surely they wouldn't just leave all that R&D on the bench, would they?
11-21-2013, 08:28 AM
#1624
Burning Brakes
11-21-2013, 11:52 AM
#1625
Suzuka Master
So I have 3K on the car and will soon be taking it on a long trip. I had posted a review early on and will update it at 5K, but so far it is solid, the things I don;t like are not reliability, but design issues:
- EPS Steering way too light and numb with no on-center feel
- Seats are not all that comfortable, so many adjustments and still tough time finding ideal position
- Brakes feel spongy and too much travel before they engage (have seen a few others complain about this as well)
- Some ergonomic issues about dumb placement and useless cup holders, , cruise control stalk, Start push button, volume knob and HVAC controls.
- 3G speeds of Audi Connect.
On the plus side;
- AMAZING power-train, silky smooth with torque that just keeps giving
- Ride is excellent smooth yet handles very well.
- MMI, this is amazing with just how intuitive and easy to use their MMI/NAV is
-MMI screen and Gauges and info display
- Google Earth and online destinations
- fairly quiet interior
I love the styling and the LEDs everywhere on this car. I don't think there is an incandescent bulb anywhere on this car.
I have had a numerous new cars and this ranks in the top. I would put my 09 AWD TL as the most solid car I every had from a build quality and reliability. The A6 would be in the top 4 so far. My 3G Tls were great cars, but all had some buzzy back decks and some squeaks and rattles from the factory.
11-21-2013, 07:25 PM
#1626
So I have 3K on the car and will soon be taking it on a long trip. I had posted a review early on and will update it at 5K, but so far it is solid, the things I don;t like are not reliability, but design issues:
- EPS Steering way too light and numb with no on-center feel
- Seats are not all that comfortable, so many adjustments and still tough time finding ideal position
- Brakes feel spongy and too much travel before they engage (have seen a few others complain about this as well)
- Some ergonomic issues about dumb placement and useless cup holders, , cruise control stalk, Start push button, volume knob and HVAC controls.
- 3G speeds of Audi Connect.
On the plus side;
- AMAZING power-train, silky smooth with torque that just keeps giving
- Ride is excellent smooth yet handles very well.
- MMI, this is amazing with just how intuitive and easy to use their MMI/NAV is
-MMI screen and Gauges and info display
- Google Earth and online destinations
- fairly quiet interior
I love the styling and the LEDs everywhere on this car. I don't think there is an incandescent bulb anywhere on this car.
I have had a numerous new cars and this ranks in the top. I would put my 09 AWD TL as the most solid car I every had from a build quality and reliability. The A6 would be in the top 4 so far. My 3G Tls were great cars, but all had some buzzy back decks and some squeaks and rattles from the factory.
- EPS Steering way too light and numb with no on-center feel
- Seats are not all that comfortable, so many adjustments and still tough time finding ideal position
- Brakes feel spongy and too much travel before they engage (have seen a few others complain about this as well)
- Some ergonomic issues about dumb placement and useless cup holders, , cruise control stalk, Start push button, volume knob and HVAC controls.
- 3G speeds of Audi Connect.
On the plus side;
- AMAZING power-train, silky smooth with torque that just keeps giving
- Ride is excellent smooth yet handles very well.
- MMI, this is amazing with just how intuitive and easy to use their MMI/NAV is
-MMI screen and Gauges and info display
- Google Earth and online destinations
- fairly quiet interior
I love the styling and the LEDs everywhere on this car. I don't think there is an incandescent bulb anywhere on this car.
I have had a numerous new cars and this ranks in the top. I would put my 09 AWD TL as the most solid car I every had from a build quality and reliability. The A6 would be in the top 4 so far. My 3G Tls were great cars, but all had some buzzy back decks and some squeaks and rattles from the factory.
11-21-2013, 10:52 PM
#1627
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Then if Acura is smart, the NSX's design (exterior and engineering) would trickle down to the TLX.
Agreed. S5/RS5 is pretty awesome looking. I'm keeping a close on Audi's reliability. If the TLX is a failure, my next vehicle may be an Audi or Porsche.
11-21-2013, 11:11 PM
#1628
Burning Brakes
Some more general Honda news. 8sp DCT w/ torque converter. No more "jerkyness" at low speeds. And of course turbos galore. I can see these engines in the MMC for the ILX. Anyone seen the Civic Type R Prototype? Looks the business. Finally something to compete against the STIs, EVOs, Focus STs and the like. Better late than never. Honda is waking up.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...rque-converter
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...rque-converter
Last edited by TeamAcura; 11-21-2013 at 11:20 PM.
11-21-2013, 11:17 PM
#1629
Burning Brakes
Interesting info, best future news scoop Acura has had in a long time. Hope the news is true. Potential 600hp, 8 spd dual clutch, and SH-SH-AWD would escalate the 2015 NSX to supercar status.
Then if Acura is smart, the NSX's design (exterior and engineering) would trickle down to the TLX.
Then if Acura is smart, the NSX's design (exterior and engineering) would trickle down to the TLX.
11-22-2013, 09:44 AM
#1630
Pro
If the CEO said Spring is the announcement they better start releasing some teasers or something soon. I'm thinking about heading over to the Infiniti dealership this weekend to look at the Q50, and will probably make some other rounds as well. It's getting to the point where my patience is wearing thin.
11-22-2013, 11:14 AM
#1631
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Can't see putting a torque converter on a DCT. Seems like its defeating the whole purpose of it to appeal to Sunday drivers. It adds complexity & weight to the trans & its like putting a super restrictor valve on an MT to soften it up.
As for jerky starts after 3 years my next jerky start will be the first one. Have driven 3 different brands with DCT's & think Honda is chasing an issue that does not really exist for those in the market for a DCT.
As for jerky starts after 3 years my next jerky start will be the first one. Have driven 3 different brands with DCT's & think Honda is chasing an issue that does not really exist for those in the market for a DCT.
11-22-2013, 11:31 AM
#1632
This is very exciting news from Honda, FI, DCT's, addition of letters that are backed by performance, SH-SHAWD seems like a good time to be a fan. Hopefully some of this stuff goes into production and isn't just left on the R&D shelves. I was really hoping to hold on to my 12' for a while but it seems like the new car itch will bite sooner than later.
11-22-2013, 02:18 PM
#1633
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Agree. Finally Acura has all the necessary hardware to start building up it's stagnant brand image.
Agree. Finally Acura has all the necessary hardware to start building up it's stagnant brand image.
11-22-2013, 03:44 PM
#1634
2011 SH-AWD 6MT
Can't see putting a torque converter on a DCT. Seems like its defeating the whole purpose of it to appeal to Sunday drivers. It adds complexity & weight to the trans & its like putting a super restrictor valve on an MT to soften it up.
As for jerky starts after 3 years my next jerky start will be the first one. Have driven 3 different brands with DCT's & think Honda is chasing an issue that does not really exist for those in the market for a DCT.
As for jerky starts after 3 years my next jerky start will be the first one. Have driven 3 different brands with DCT's & think Honda is chasing an issue that does not really exist for those in the market for a DCT.
11-22-2013, 05:19 PM
#1635
Summer is Coming
If the CEO said Spring is the announcement they better start releasing some teasers or something soon. I'm thinking about heading over to the Infiniti dealership this weekend to look at the Q50, and will probably make some other rounds as well. It's getting to the point where my patience is wearing thin.
Plus the next model year is supposed to have ventilated seats. But this comes from unreliable sources.
The Genesis looks very promising.
11-22-2013, 05:48 PM
#1636
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Really? Just because they have done so well with their AT's over the past three generations.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-22-2013 at 05:56 PM.
11-23-2013, 08:36 AM
#1637
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11-23-2013, 08:45 AM
#1638
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A couple of months ago, I thought I was picking up on their saying that conventional (as we now know it) SH-AWD was old tech and possibly disappearing.
Now, however, it seems those same people are saying that conventional SH-AWD is rolling out to the majority of platforms, and I believe they intended to convey the meaning that it included the ILX.
A TLX that is based on the current generation Honda Accord, with SH-AWD, a manual six speed, and the K20 280 HP motor might very well turn out to be a bit of a hoot even if we can't get good camber bite on the front end. You'd swing the car with the rear end instead of relying on double wishbones to move camber the right direction, I guess.
Sounds interesting, anyway.
I like the J35 Earth Dreams motor, but it's only 310 HP and doesn't dyno as well as the older J37 non-direct injection motor that was only rated at 305 HP. I don't know if the Earth Dreams J Motor without the hybrid drivetrain is going to give the enthusiasts the kick that they're after.
I dunno. What do you guys think? Will the sporty version TLX be a 6-6 like the current model, or a K20 Turbo?
I think the 5G TLX will have to be an Accord chassis with McPherson, and it would require quite a bit of redesign to get a longitudinal design to work. It'd have to be an all new design. Do they have the money for that? A design peculiar to the TLX?
The whole front end would have to be different, from the gear shift through the firewall and on up to the front bumper.
11-23-2013, 09:18 AM
#1639
^^ My gut feeling tells me that we will see some turbo option in the TLX.....but I could be totally off. The big question will be, will they add a 4 with a turbo and keep the V6 for their top level (with the VCM), or will they have the turbo on the V6 to give it a real high ooutput model.
Given the RLX SH-SH-AWD will have ~377HP, I doubt that the turbo V6 high output can be ruled out and likely on the 4 cylinder.
To be honest, the ILX with the non turbo model, the entry level TLX with the I4 turbo (putting 260HP), a mid model TLX V6 at 290-300hp and their gussied up model with a V6 with electric motor putting about 340HP, then with the top RLX at 377HP would give a good gap between models and keep everyone happy without stepping over each other
Given the RLX SH-SH-AWD will have ~377HP, I doubt that the turbo V6 high output can be ruled out and likely on the 4 cylinder.
To be honest, the ILX with the non turbo model, the entry level TLX with the I4 turbo (putting 260HP), a mid model TLX V6 at 290-300hp and their gussied up model with a V6 with electric motor putting about 340HP, then with the top RLX at 377HP would give a good gap between models and keep everyone happy without stepping over each other
Last edited by weather; 11-23-2013 at 09:22 AM.