BEAR-AvHistory

Have not finalized the color yet, but one I really like is this.



Not worried about the handling. Its a 427 body which is wider than the 289 version & tires are 255X40X17 - 315X35x17 street/track compound. The spec racing series, same car suspension I am building, cars are pulling well over 1G.

Nice thing about Carolina is no front tag.

Edward'TLS

Nothing is too far in, if Honda thinks the car won't sell well.

In the worst case, the TLX can be pushed out by another year.

It is not uncommon for Acura to delay vehicle programs, such as the RLX (3 years late), and the NSX (2 iterations, 5+ years late).

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

I dunno if it's the path this thread has taken or because I have 12' and don't plan on changing it for something new, but I don't care anymore. The TLX will be out when it comes out and it'll flop or not.

KeithL

They push it out another year and they might as well abandon sedan market. Infiniti did that with G because in year 7 it was selling very well. If they decided now the TLX won't sell then they need to fire a lot of people because they must have been working on it for years already.

KeithL

Depends on definition of flop, I doubt it will flop, but I also doubt it will be a WOW car that people will flock too. Honda seems to have Acura following in it footsteps of providing a good value reliable car. Clearly nothing wrong with that, but you define your market narrowly and as other makes get more reliable you shrink your base as people will gamble and move on to cars that pull at their emotions more.

Edward'TLS

If true, then the entire RLX team should be gone first, with the car having been late to the market by 3 years; and the car is still a flop.

KeithL

Agreed. But you have to wonder who up top is approving all these sedans. Again, if their goal is just to be a value reliable luxury brand they are I. The ball park, but if they want to gain market share they are out of the park. Even Toyota with is bland models realized that their luxury line needs some more bold styling to compete. Like their spindle grille or not they are at least putting it out there.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Those guys who approved these sedans are the top Japanese guys back in the Honda Japan Headquarter, who are absolutely out of touch with what exactly North American customers really want.

BEAR-AvHistory

Problem is the designs they are approving are being generated in Torrance, California.

SSFTSX

Honda Accord hybrid has slow induction. Hybrid RLX is pushed to spring 2014. if Honda sells a lot of Fit hybrids and its profitable for them. they may not even export the components needed for TLX hybrid. since hybrid is next big thing on Honda. it seems TLX is pushed way into future for reasonable production rate. and at this point TLX is almost 2 years behind Accord .so there is little savings in sharing platform with Accord.

At this point even ILX is lagging behind Civic in technology.

reddogTL

As time goes on I keep getting frustrated with the Acura brand. The ILX is a nice looking car but executed poorly with the powertrain options and features. It had a lot of potential. Unless the TLX has a mid $30k hybrid option(See MKZ hybrid) or higher mpg lower base model i4 engine my 2008 TL will be my last Acura.

The context coming from Honda CEO Iwamura doesn't make sense. They have announced they will not compete with top tier brands BMW, Mercedes, and Audi but instead with continue to play in the premium market.

"But Iwamura, speaking to reporters before the show, implied the carmaker would not use distinctive powertrain technologies to set Acura apart from the mass-market Honda brand." For God's sake, WHY NOT?

"Make sedans strong. That's the next five-year plan."

Acura is your upscale brand, it needs to be distinctive from Honda. You cannot make vehicles in your upscale brand stronger if you keep doing the same shit you've been doing since 2009 MY.

I'm at a point where I just dont care anymore. I've given up on Acura.

docboy

I didn't realize Iwamura said that. If that is the case, then it's possible Acura's sedan lineup will fail.

IMHO in order for the TLX to seriously compete, it needs ~330hp, SH-SH-AWD, mainstreamed acceptable/aggressive exterior design, 6MT & dual clutch transmission, and a few extra amenities. And Acura needs a coupe. Even Subaru has a coupe now!

We'll see what happens. Since the RLX SH-AWD will have 377hp (or so), IF Honda can tune the TLX's engine to ~330hp with above stated features (which would create enough separation from the RLX), then all is not lost...YET.

I plan on driving my TL for another 50,000 miles or until I get that itch, which ever one comes first. The TLX will fall within my timeframe. If the above features are not there, then an Audi or Porsche will be sitting in my garage.

Rocketsfan

Why does it matter to you guys that the powertrain tech isn't different between the two? In the Honda implementation maybe it'll make much less hp and torque than in the Acura implementation (actually I'm sure there'll be no Accord sedan that generates nearly 400 hp like the RLX does anytime soon ... lol). Maybe they'll slap turbos in both the Honda lineup and eventually the Acura lineup. That bothers you guys?

KeithL

I think why it matters is that the Honda line drive trains are just main stream and do not allow Acura to have any competitive advantage. They can take Honda engines and tweak them to get the HP up and improve the torque output. I have said this before, if they want oh hum styled reliable cars they are there, but that will not cut it in the luxury market for most.

Rocketsfan

The way I interpreted it is the Honda Accord Hybrid uses a gas engine and electric motors to generate power. Hey, so does the RLX. Are you guys saying you don't want the RLX to use that setup because the Accord used it? I honestly couldn't care less as long as the RLX performs a hell of a lot better than the Accord Hybrid does. I also thought what he was trying to say is that they won't have the TLX running twin-turbos (hey, we can all dream) and Honda having only electric motors.


There's a lot of things I can bitch about with Acura, but sharing similar Earth Dreams tech with Honda is the last thing I care about. If that tech produces the same output as the Honda tech, then I'd care about it. Earth Dreams for everyone!


But hey, different strokes for different folks ...

yooin14

Acura is the only company that I wanna talk in person.

KeithL

I think it is more about the gas engines. But I am curious to see what they do with the new turbos that have cooking.

RosieQ

No new announcements for Detroit Auto Show NAIAS in January? Would seem a natural spot to put something out there for a Spring release!

On the other hand, I've been patiently watching this forum for more than a year and just last weak took delivery of a beautiful BMW 328i. I'm really pleased with it. But I'll keep my eye out for the TLX in 3 years when my lease is up.

Rocket_man

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...postcount=1622

Nope, not until the New York Show in late April. The new Genesis will debut in the US at the Detroit show.

Congrats on the 328i. I liked the car but couldn't get comfortable in the drivers seat.... among other things.

blakura

I felt the same as you Reddog, that's why I picked up an Audi A6 "Prestige" almost 2 weeks ago. After 4 TLs, I was looking forward to the new TLX, but Acura is taking too long, and I'm not 100% sure they'll make me as happy to purchase one, as I was with my 2008 TL-S or 2010 SH-AWD-6. I'm happy with my Audi, but I'll likely come back to Acura when if they get things sorted out.

weather

WOw...Its amazing the amount of people here defecting Acura for other brands because they got tired of waiting!!

blakura

I don't feel like a defector, I hope to return to Acura, but I wanted a new car, and Acura has not made the best decisions with new releases as of late, they have missed great opportunities with the new RLX and the ILX, they're getting rid of the TSX for the ILX, I understand why, but I don't think it's the best move. I moved to Audi, because they are making some excellent cars right now. If the next TLX is a home run (or close), I'll come back, as long as the itch for an S6 doesn't get me first. My retirement weekend car will likely be an NSX...I will always be an Acura fan, but lately they have made me feel the same way my Atlanta Falcons have, both make it hard to support, but I still do.

MtnMan

Like you, I may end up in a 3 series this time around due to Acura's slow draw on the TLX.

Add me to the list as I'm likely to be in my next car in the spring with no TLX in sight.

Right there with ya...concerned about the brand's direction. This will be the first time in close to 20 years that I haven't had an Acura as a daily driver.

fsttyms1

They are 2 completely different systems. The RLX uses 2 electric motors to drive the rear wheels. The accord doesnt.

Rocketsfan

Of course, but that's the implementation of the technology, not necessarily the technology itself (unless you want to get down into the minutiae, in which case every car's tech is different from every other car's). I'm simply saying that implying because a gas engine + electric motors was used in the RLX, it shouldn't be used in the Accord would seem odd. I think the exclusivity of the RLX in the Honda vs. Acura lineup comes from the implementation of the gas engine + motor combo technology, just like you said. It was done differently and it makes a buttload more power.


A few years ago they both just used gas engines for the most part, but the Acuras generated a bit more power and handled better. Nobody really complained much. Of course, Acura was selling cars back then, too, so nobody probably cared.

KeithL

I have been saying the same, but the longer I own my A6 and the silky smooth Quattro power train and the incredibly awesome MMI with Audi Connect I am struggling to think Acura will win me back. The gf just got a 14 RDX Tech last month and damn if Acura still does not make you hot OK to get to the navi and audio screen. The. They lock so much out while car is in motion. And even the RLX's navi is still antiquated forcing you to parse out a destination in the navi. Unless my A6 becomes an unreliable car or a money pit I can see me sticking with Audi.

Devil Dog 21

I've considered leaving the Acura brand and likely will if they don't improve their offerings soon. On one hand my wife was pregnant when she wrecked my 4G TL and both her and our little girl didn't have a scratch or any health issues at all. On the other hand, there are plenty of safe cars and Acura's lack of innovation and styling are incredibly blah.

Rocketsfan

I saw this posted on an Infiniti forum and thought it has a bit to do with Acura since these 2 were direct competitors not too long ago, and the article talks about a lot of the arguments people make with regards to Acura not being an aspirational name.


Infiniti's apparently trying to go a completely different direction with what they want people to think of when they think "Infiniti" - damn what the Germans do. lol. :


LINK : http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/au...rygarrett&_r=0
____________________________________________


Infiniti Learns a Bit of German


Tannen Maury/European Pressphoto Agency
Infiniti’s president, Johan de Nysschen, right, with Shiro Nakamura, the chief creative officer for Nissan Motor, at the 2013 Detroit auto show.

By JERRY GARRETT

Published: December 13, 2013

Since he was hired in mid-2012, Johan de Nysschen, the president of Infiniti, has been leading a comprehensive remaking of Nissan’s luxury brand.

A largely non-Japanese management team has been brought in, featuring some key executives snatched from German automakers. These include Michael Bartsch, from Porsche, who is now vice president of Infiniti Americas; Mr. de Nysschen himself arrived after serving as president of Audi of America.

Infiniti’s headquarters has moved to Hong Kong from Japan; on Oct. 2, the Infiniti brand became an autonomous subsidiary of Nissan. Plans are well underway to create an entirely new lineup of vehicles; to expand production to North America, Britain and China; and to expand on strategic agreements with Daimler to jointly develop vehicle platforms and powertrains. Infiniti will even share an engine and a platform with Mercedes: The Q50 will eventually get a turbocharged Mercedes 4-cylinder, and a Q30 compact car, currently in development, is based on the new Benz A-Class.

With Infiniti aiming to develop a business model more in line with the ones German automakers have successfully executed, Mr. Bartsch was asked if something of a “Germanification” of Infiniti was underway.

“Infiniti is now free to pursue a separate business model,” Mr. Bartsch said in an interview at the Los Angeles Auto Show last month. “The business model we are pursuing is more closely aligned with the premium luxury segment. The people who do that best are the Germans.”

Henner Lehne, an analyst for IHS Global, said in a recent email: “Fact is, that the three key global premium players in this segment are German, and therefore they are the main orientation point for Infiniti. If they want to grow in the premium segment successfully they need to closely watch what the Germans are doing and maybe adopt here and there certain behaviors.”

But expect Infiniti to pursue exclusivity rather than the sales volume approach taken by the German juggernauts of BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen Group. Mr. de Nysschen, a native of South Africa, says he thinks he can use the Germans’ strengths — their sales growth and expansion into more and more vehicle segments — against them.

“We do not strive to be the biggest,” Mr. de Nysschen said in an email last week. “We strive to be a highly regarded aspirational brand, which is the domain of those who seek a different expression of their personal station in life, than that communicated by the mainstream premium brands.”

He added, “In effect, the definition of exclusivity has come the full circle, back to the original meaning — namely, for the select few, not for everyone.”

Mr. Bartsch said Infiniti would not be among the industry’s so-called “fast followers” who ape the products of the pacesetters. He expects authenticity to be a guiding principle in Infiniti’s engineering and design.

“You have to stand for something,” he said. “You need differentiators. As recently as three years ago, Infiniti was still trying to be all things to all people. That was the brand’s Achilles’ heel.”

Indeed, while Toyota’s Lexus division, which is essentially the same age as Infiniti, has followed a similar path, it has been relatively more successful at it.

Mr. de Nysschen likes to make a comparison among high-end watches — the large Swiss brands Breguet, Chopard, Patek Philippe and so forth — with IWC, a bit of an outlier in that industry.

“IWC also makes very nice, very luxurious, but also somewhat different watches, for a smaller, more defined audience than some of the larger luxury watchmakers,” he said. “Why can’t Infiniti find a niche like that in the premium car market?”

Mr. de Nysschen also rejects the volume-oriented thinking that permeated past product plans, which some have derided as “Nissan-plus” — neither exclusive nor luxurious enough. He has tossed out sales goals of hundreds of thousands of units in favor of building far fewer vehicles, but ones with more substance.

“From that, ultimately, comes volume,” he said. But it may take up to 15 years, he added, to realize his ultimate goals for Infiniti.

Mr. Lehne, the auto analyst, sees an element of danger in that strategy. “In the end, Infiniti has to watch out,” he said, “since the German three are also having strong ambitions and are battling between themselves very hard these days.

“If Infiniti cannot bring the right product to the right place in time, they might go under in that race for global premium leadership.”

SeismicGuy

So I guess the answer for Acura is to hire a few German auto execs. I have to say that the German marketing seems head-and-shoulders above most others. Lexus has been doing a better marketing strategy of late and even Hyundai's is pretty decent. I wonder if those manufacturers have German execs high up in their system? Surely the WORST marketing strategy I have seen over the last few years has to go to Acura.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I don't know if Mr. Nysschen had any responsibility for the new Q50, but if that's the "Germanification" of Infiniti the article mentions, they are doomed. While I think it's a nice-looking car, the legion of problems they've encountered with that car and the poor out-of-the-blocks sales makes you wonder why they felt the need to throw out wholesale a proven winner, the G37. Oh wait, they didn't. They evidently were so unsure of the prospects for the Q50, they've kept the G37 around, but in devalued form. I wouldn't think this would be a formula for success at Acura, which, last time I checked, was still outselling Infiniti.


The ILX needs a new motor, the TLX is still in the wings, and I personally think the RLX is a very nice car, especially in AWD form. The SUVs, not my cup of tea, are killing it in the market place, and the NSX is on the horizon. I don't think it's time to man the lifeboats yet.

SeismicGuy

Must have been the same person who recommended that Acura drop Legend--a proven winner.

Rocketsfan

I have to agree with you. Originally de Nysschen talked about quality needing to be paramount at Infiniti. Then they released the electronics disaster that was the Q50. Ah well, every manufacturer trips up. Let's see how they handle it from here. What's more interesting is that he's trying to take the Infiniti brand upstream and not as worried about volume which is almost "Apple-like". I know many have wanted Acura to do something similar by acquiring a brand rep somehow. It seems de Nysschen is attempting to force it down people's throats instead of waiting for it to come to Infiniti.


I pretty much agree with everything you say here. I think the ILX would be a nice car for that demographic/price range if it had a better engine. The TLX's only problem is that nobody's heard much of a peep about it and they haven't teased it at all other than the set of spyshots that seem forever ago. I'm not waiting for it. If the '14 ATS, ATS coupe or something similar finally trips me up, I'm buying. Either that, or I'm waiting for my current car to up an die, and it doesn't seem to want to. As for the RLX, I finally saw it in person and saw 2 or 3 now driving around town. I actually like the thing from a looks standpoint, though I'm still not too sure about the rear end. The interior is typical Honda/Acura and I like that as well. However, it's probably more than I want to spend on a car. I'm not an SUV guy, but like you said, they're selling.

Glashub

Have you seen the latest Acura commercial? It's so surreal, so shockingly different -- I have no idea what to think of it. Here it is for your viewing pleasure --

Booya4139

its all BS, best looking car wins... They are all close enough that the tiny differentiations are really immaterial to mass car buying decisions...

3.5L V6 with 300-325HP, 6 SP tranny getting mid 20's combined, touching 30mpg hwy with a sexy design and good tech package will rake...


They did it with the MDX which is arguably the most sexy design in its class. X5 wins by a nose, but price difference and the fact its damn close it why it sells like crazy...

Rocket_man

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/16/2...cedes-c-class/

Lots of pictures here...

http://www.netcarshow.com/mercedes-benz/2015-c-class/


I'm not really a MB type but this looks like a really nice car. It also looks like the rear seats fold down ;-)

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

I'm not digging the lights. Front and back. The back looks like a Bentley. :/

oldsnwbrdr

I WANT this car. BADLY. My last three cars were the 2007 TL (my all-time favorite car), 2010 C300, and 2012 TSX.

The interior on the new C class is absolutely stunning. Do we seriously think the TLX will offer anything nearly as imaginative? My guess is it will simply be a smaller version of the RLX/MDX interior, with three color choices... tan, gray, and wait for it.... BLACK. No thank you. But I'm holding out hope.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

I can't believe I'm saying this but even the new Kia K900. Lol

It has just about EVERYTHING a TL driver would want to jump to...

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...00_first_test/

boe_d

I don't know - Germans teaming up with Japanese - hasn't been a good thing in the past.

I do think Honda/Acura needs to get a new design team so they don't have another 4G flop it is kind of sad when you want an Acura and wished it looked as nice as a KIA.

Glashub

Just glue an iPad mini to the dash of your TSX and you're on your way.