a35tl

If I'm not mistaken, the TSX V6 still has 5-speed automatic, not a 6-speed. The '12 -'14 TLs have 6-speed automatics but not the TSXs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Rocketsfan

The AT is a 5-speed, but the TSX SE can be had with a 6 -speed manual.

Rocket_man

The problems with the new Jeep Grand Cherokee seem to be related to how their in-house built ZF transmission interacts with another component related to AWD. But I've also read how they have put out multiple software updates to get the transmission to shift properly. Maybe this is why the TLX won't be out until April, they are making sure this is straightened out.

No... no they are not.

9 gears seems almost like bragging doesn't it? Is 9 better than 7? Not sure but it sure sounds like it.

If you look on page 60 of the Style magazine there is a short blurb on a lady who is an account exec with Honda's advertising agency. It is mostly about how superficial she is which is driven by living in LA. I lived there myself for 4 years, the most superficial place I've ever been. She brags about owning a ZDX. So here we see their marketing group drinking their own Kool-Aid. I guess the only ones buying the ZDX are Honda PR types. They really need a new RP firm.

If the ZF is a dud, it will be very very bad for Acura. I wonder if these will be built by ZF or by Honda under license. Honda has a sketchy track record with transmissions. I owned one.

The engine is ~10 year old technology. Rumor is it will get a new 4 cyl turbo engine next year.

SSFTSX

You also have to consider tire setup. TSX V6 is inhibited by 5speed Auto.
and TSX is wider vehicle than IS.

KeithL

I don't think they use cylinder deactivation. At those displacements there is only so much you can do especially in city driving since you have to get over the inertia of getting all that weight moving. My Audi is 4100 lbs and has 8AT and yet around town even with the smaller displacement I can barely squeak 19-20 and if it is heavy stop and go I am in the 17 range. Once I can get to speed at stay in a relative range the smaller displacement and 8AT kick in and I can get some very decent numbers and still play with 310HP and 325 ft/lbs

a35tl

That is correct. The V6 is only offered with the 5-speed automatic, no manual option.

Glashub

Let me say this about the 2014 IS350 Fsport. Engine tech is old except for the under publicized patented hybrid DI/Port system. Also, as a 1st gen car I am blown away by the fit and finish i.e. no creaks, no rattles, a solid little piece of granite. The car is supremely sound proofed and rides like a dream -- until I put it in Sports+ -- it then becomes a cheetah. Really a remarkable car. I prefer the ride/handling to the SH-AWD I had. But there are things about the TL I prefer. The TL is a better balance of all of the contesting forces that go into a luxury sports car. The next gen IS will probably address it's luxury shortcomings though.

Rocketsfan

Hey Glashub, I see you over on ClubLexus posting. What kind of mileage are you getting? Does it stay true to the 19 mpg city/28 hwy claims?

Colin

Well, Honda has been around for 60+ years as an automobile manufacturer. I can't say with any degree of certainty that in the earliest days they built their own transmissions but certainly through the majority of their big growth period, they were. During that time there was one generation of problematic transmissions. I'd say their track record is actually very good.

Rocket_man

Not if you owned one. In my Honda history they are 1 out of 3 on transmissions. 33% is not that good in my book. If my next car had a 1 in 3 chance of transmission failure I wouldn't buy it. I would feel differently if they stood behind it, but they left me hanging. That is my constant fear with Honda. A major problem that they don't own up to.

ZF seems to have a good reputation. If it is just a matter of straightening out the software (on the JGC) then it may not be a big deal. If this is delaying the TLX (and I have no info that it is) until they get it right then that is not a bad thing.

Colin

I realize that it's a sore spot with some. However, as a company, one product line in 60 years is not (statistically) that bad. Obviously, they are much worse statistically to you but the generalization is (arguably) too general.

Glashub

The 2nd type is all about the driving experience 1st and foremost and it never occurs to them to compare plastics and they are willing to do without some luxury as long as it’s clear the money went into the handling.

I could never get them to see there are reasons certain items were left off -- even with numerous links to supporting evidence -- that the IS could never be priced at more than 50K to be competitive, that manufacturers only have an 8% margin, that BMW with the worlds 7th most valuable brand can do things that Lexus with the 87th most valuable brand can't do.

The same guys kept slamming and trolling every thread with how bad the 3IS is compared to the 2IS. So I left and comeback here to talk cars with guys who've been posting here for years and who are true car enthusiasts even if Acura is their 1st love.

One thing I've learned is that a good forum enhances the ownership experience.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Big time! What were his major points over why 2G > 3G?

BEAR-AvHistory

Thought the 3is has done well in all the magazines, came in 1st place in the compairo's. What don't they like outside of it just making their cars the old model?

Glashub

Huh, part of my post is missing -- don't know what happened. I'm getting 16.6 city but I'm never in Eco mode. What I was saying is that I no longer go over to Club Lexus. Too much negativity particularly from 2IS and GS owners trolling and slamming the 3IS every chance they got. It was basically the same 3-4 guys. The gist of their complaints is that the 3IS doesn't have the refined interior of the 2IS or the GS and it no longer has the whole engine covered by black plastic.

What I learned there is that there are 2 types of Lexus owners. The 1st type apparently sits in the car while parked in the driveway, caresses the supposedly superior plastics, opens and closes the ashtrays, turns on the butt coolers, and is not concerned in the least that the car rides/handles like a Hyundai. It's all about the illusion of affluence and luxury for them.

As stated above the 2nd type is all about the driving experience 1st and foremost and it never occurs to them to compare plastics and they are willing to do without some luxury as long as it’s clear the money went into the handling.

The 2IS trolls would go out of their way to ruin the new car experience of the 3IS owners because the Fsport is missing some features from the luxury realm. The problem was this -- everyone is entitled to an opinion bit when the same guys month after month show up on a range of threads to slam the 3IS -- well, it gets tiring.

Since I own a business and am in marketing I thought I could get them to chill by explaining and providing evidence in support of my surmise that Lexus knows exactly what it's doing, that they know the target they're trying to hit, that they know they can't sell an IS for over 50K because they spent years branding it as an entry level (read 45K) car, that they chose to eliminate some features because they made big investments in the chassis, etc.

Businesses today have access to data that blows my mind and I'm in an internet business. They can buy data from companies that track your every move online and can track the magazines you get in the mail, the foods you buy (because you probably use a discount card) -- they are able to create recursive and predictive proofs about what a large majority of a market will buy/not buy, respond/not respond. They know the micro-cent what it costs to build a car. Car manufacturers are really smart people. So, I'd explain why I think Lexus made the decisions it made -- that it's not personal -- its a business and vision decision to include all of the advanced tech they put into the suspension instead of into butt coolers while keeping the car under 50K.

But the guys there don't discuss like here. Everything is 140 characters. It's like dealing with teenage psychopaths. Horrible forum. I don't know why it is so consistently low grade.

Now, I can't speak about the GS, LS forums. I've never been on them. Maybe the IS forums attract a younger crowd.

All I know is that the 3IS 350 Fsport is winning award after award and the lack of butt coolers and rain sensing windshield wipers, etc. is never mentioned. The car is a complete gas to drive.

boe_d

I would be thrilled if Acura took some styling points from this Honda concept. This is one of the best grills I've seen from either company in a long time. The headlights are a little wimpy but that grill is nice and aggressive IMHO

George Knighton

If you're lucky, it'll have EXACTLY the same power train that was just verified for the RLX SH-AWD in the Acura official newsletter, Style.

In other words, the 7 speed automated manual with the 370 HP hybrid SH-AWD drivetrain.

:-)

amill

I really like the new IS F sport. It is finally a good effort by lexus to make something that isn't bland, feels floaty and appeals to senior citizens. I do think lexus should have came out with at least one all new power plant for the car though. I mean, lets be honest, they produced the second gen with those same power plants from 2005-2013. It's amazing to me that they still produce the gutless 250 version, but I guess they want to capture the lower end of the market too.

Acura really has their work cut out for them. The IS 350, Q50, even the 328 with the turbo 4 gets in there. I honestly am not expecting much from them after the terrible RLX design. The power plant for the RLX hybrid sounds decent, but who knows if that will trickle down to the TL unchanged, and if it does, at what cost. If they do ditch the manual trans, which most people are sure they will, they need to offer a good DCT to prove their point of a "performance sedan".

George Knighton

They've confirmed an automated 7 speed manual for the RLX SH-AWD, so the same transmission should be available for a higher HP TLX.

I'd sure like to know why the ZF contract exists, however. That 9 speed conventional automatic is destined for something.

amill

I know they are offering it, but whether it's good or not is another thing. Will it be a true manual based DCT that in manual mode allows you to hold, and shift gears when you want and not upshift automatically? We'll have to wait for reviews.

Glashub

amill, I think because Acura and Lexus have brands built around reliability 1st and foremost -- they're are super cautious about implementing anything new or too much new at one time. The 3IS is pretty much new from the ground up -- that's a lot of variables that could go wrong -- throw in a new engine with a turbo or cylinder deactivation and -- oh my-- that could hit them in the one place that really places them ahead of the Germans ii reliability.

Just my .02.

Rocket_man

I could live with a grill like that. Kind of reminds me of the MKZ grill. But I bet if Acura put that grill on the TLX there would be people saying 'there is that beak again' because now there are just a bunch of people waiting for something to dis-like.

fsttyms1

SeismicGuy

Count me as the first to dislike. Looks like a ripoff of Audi and I am not particularly fond of their gaping opening grills.

Glashub

"Lexus – the luxury division of Toyota – scored the top spot this year, followed by Toyota and Acura. Audi – the luxury division of Volkswagen – came in fourth, followed by Mazda, Infiniti, Volvo, Honda and then the sole U.S. brand, the GMC division of General Motors. Subaru was 10th."

http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...#axzz2j2Z67L5t

Don1

I'm second. I would much rather have my 2010 grill as I really dislike these wide open yaws in many recent cars.

KeithL

And the Germans start to catch up....

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/autos/2...le-cars/2.html

fsttyms1

Actually i was first by almost 5 hours

TeamAcura

Rubbish IMO...it's based on a survey of its subscribers. Owners tend to be biased towards their brand. And it's not what CR actually recommends buying just because it's "reliable".

BEAR-AvHistory

J.D. Power 2013 U.S. Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study is actual owner of the cars rating them on 77 points against an 1000 point max score. I would expect owner to be biased toward their brand because they picked a specific car out over any other. Plenty of Acura biases here which is normal. Thing is all bias included some brands do better than others it comes to how much they like their car.

Based on my daughters new Porsche I can see why it outpoints the BMW’s.

KeithL

I actually trust real owners over some of the statistical JD Powers reports. Also if there is bias it will likely be evened out over the sampling size and should impact all makes accordingly. I have been a CR subscriber for years and while I do not bank on those numbers they do seem to have some parallels to the real world, if you have had headaches with your car you are more inclined to fill out a survey than if you didn't. Similar to review sites and forums, more people go to vent than to praise. The A6 has been on the rise for a while especially in its current generation. Do I think it is as reliable as Honda and Toyota products, no. But I suspect it is about average, which is what my M37 was ranked and I had virtually flawless reliability over 38 months and 46K miles. If my A6 does the same I will be happy.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-10-l...181031192.html

Five of ten are Fords. Lol

Glashub

Yeah, but I think a lot of those cars are knocked down because of the goofy user interfaces. Interesting to see what happens with the Q50 because those folks seem to be having all kinds of problems.

jshaw

Every single Honda automatic with gears has always been an automated manual.

docboy

I believe George meant the RLX SH-AWD will come with a dual clutch automatic, a first for an Acura.

BEAR-AvHistory

Honda has had a DCT trans before this?

BEAR-AvHistory

Both Ford & Caddy have taken a beating on the system interface in their cars. Slow, clunky & counter-intuitive is the typical comment.

KeithL

True, I saw the TV report and the big thing that hurt Ford was Sync and My Ford Touch. I understand complaints about electronic quirks and have to think some are people that have problems with any tech. The original intent of reliability reports was to give you comfort you were not going to break down and have your car in the shop. Personally every car maker has electronic interface issues, Ford just caught a bad hand since they tried too hard to advance the in car experience. I rented a Ford with Sync and it found it fine, I have seen worse. When I looked at an Audi years ago in the A4 the first MMI iteration is what chased me away, slow clunky, all the same issues people complain about Ford.

jshaw

Every single Honda geared automatic is simply a Honda manual with clutchpacks on every single gear, reinforced synchromeshes, etc.

I never said it was a double clutch - truth be told, it has one clutch per gear.

Rocketsfan

I know in the past I've read that Lexus has expected the sales of the 250 vs. 350 to be 80% to 20%. Almost every one of the 8 or so IS's I've seen so far has been a 250, so somebody's buying 'em.