Edward'TLS

Reliability isn't a big deal for those German vehicle buyers, like you, who lease and won't keep the vehicle longer than 3-4 years.

The low entry cost of the CLA and A3 will definitely attract lots of buyers, especially those "badge worshipers" who have been wanting to hitch a ride into the luxury circle but can't afford to buy one beforehand.

Rocket_man

There is a lot of rationalizing when it comes time to buy a car. If it were just about basic transportation we'd all be driving Civic's and Corolla's. But somewhere along the way all buyers begin to rationalize what's important and what's not. Whether that comes to getting the F-Sport or the AWD or the Advanced trim or the higher HP engine. These are all rationalizations that it is 'worth it' for the extra money, or performance, or prestige. BMW, MB, Audi have greater prestige than the Japanese brands, so people rationalize away how much more it cost to buy it, and also things like reliability. I did the same thing when I bought a BMW years ago. I knew it would not be the most reliable car, but I rationalized that away because I wanted the drive and yes the look and prestige. People expect German cars to be less reliable and accept it as part of their mental trade space. They expect the Japanese brands to be higher in reliability. It is a baseline expectation, there is nothing to trade against, it is a given. It is part of the reason to buy Japanese much like prestige is part of the reason to buy German. I don't think this is going to change anytime soon. All the BMW fuel pump failures didn't keep the buyers away. They just assumed they have to deal with it as a cost of ownership. But if the Roundel's were removed after they bought it they would be much more upset.

My BMW was the most unreliable car I've ever had. But I knew that going in and accepted it and I still enjoyed the car and was sorry to see it go. By the way every single trip to the dealer was covered by BMW and I rarely spent a dime of my own. I would have bought BMW again except for the other parts of the trade space that I don't like and didn't want to rationalize away. And of course the older I get my priorities change. Also, been there, done that, and want something different. I want a reliable luxury car I can drive for several years and not worry that it won't start. A car I don't have to plan to get rid of when the warranty runs out. So I'm willing to trade away some prestige for those things.

Oh.. but I do want folding rear seats!!!!

fsttyms1

They are 2 different systems. The FWD has to use the term precision all wheel steering, which is what it has. It cant use SH-AWD as that is ONLY for the AWD models which dont have all wheel steering.

KeithL

Partially true, although I did buy this time. In the end even if the car is covered under warranty if I have to keep running to the dealer and the hassle I will be back sooner than later. Time will tell, I have 1800 miles and the car is in for a few minor issues, all tolerable, but still more issues that most of my cars have seen in their entire time of ownership. I suspect same will hodl true for anyone that is too busy to keep running to the dealer, lease of not, or worse gets stranded with their car.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

SH-AWD


PAWS

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

I wonder how PAWS affects tire wear...

keith7120

I realize they are different systems. I was tying convey that in my opinion, FWD with Precision All wheel steering is lame in comparison to SH-AWD. The way I drive, I benefit more from AWD than all wheel steering. Besides, they had all wheel steering years ago on their Preludes. I call Precision All Wheel Steering more of a marketing ploy than actual functionality. Again MY opinion.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

^Must not have ever driven a Prelude with 4WS then... Lol

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Hmm, how come? I thought you always lease.

Regarding what Rocket_man said, I just can't imagine owning a car that isn't an exotic but chooses when or when not to work. It's absurd to me to pay tens of thousands for transportation that isn't guaranteed. The only German car I've "owned" was my HS grad present 04' C 320, I thought driving a merc @ 17 was the coolest thing ever, it was actually pretty lame. Had I known more about cars I would've gotten something else initially, like the 04 6spd TL I traded it in for. I didn't own the 320 long enough to test German reliability but predict a lot of those buyers flocking to the CLA will have a similar experience.

Edward'TLS

Don't worry, if you're not planning to keep the A6 for more than 4 years.

According to my past experience with 2 Audi cars as well as info from the Audi forums, the newer Audi vehicles will hold up pretty well until near the 4th year when the factory warranty is starting to expire. Then all hell will start to break lose for most Audi owners.

Hats off to the German engineers who are capable of designing their Audi parts in so precise a life span.

Glashub

The first week a rattle developed in the passenger front seat of my 2014 IS350 Fsport. I took it in and it turned out to be a wire in the seat. took 10 minutes to fix it. Lexus corporate sent a check for $750 for my troubles since it is an important new model and launch for them. Not an issue, a rattle, or failure of any kind since. I'm always going to buy Japanese myself -- no matter how tempting the beuatiful German temptress can be.

keith7120

I was a Honda man before I became an Acura man. I had the 4th Gen Honda Prelude and i had a girlfriend that had the 3 Gen Prelude with 4WS. That thing may have had 110HP hardly enough to compare 4WS to SH-AWD of today. I have taken the RLX for a spin as well and I still feel that the SH-AWD is superior to the PAWS system.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

I'm not disagreeing. However, they are two totally separate systems for two mostly different purposes.

jim_c

I think post 1322 above by Rocket-man is absolutely bang on.
There is nothing wrong with "rationalizing", we all do it. Admitting it is sometimes difficult.

keith7120

Its all good. I just feel the PAWS system is a weak wow factor in comparison to the SH-AWD system. I do realize they are for different purposes. I'm hopeful that the PAWS system a RLX feature that will not spill over to the TLX world unless they offer it as an option. Folks will then have the choice of getting the base FWD or the FWD with PAWS or a model with SH-AWD. From what I have seen, the SH-AWD feature will have electric motors instead of the current set up which will be called Sport Hybrid Super Handling All-Wheel Drive

weather

I test drove the CLA last weekend and it was a "good size" vehicle for my slender built...the car felt just right as far seating position and visibility. That being said, I could not stand not having a gear shifter...the little flimsy turn-signal shifter is not for me. I really disliked the "dash mounted" stereo system and the wheels.....and most important, I found the steering a bit twitchy.

My most favorite part....the size and the seats!! They were just PERFECT for me. Oh...and it was WHITE

atruedsgb

For those who may have been cross-shopping it against the next generation Genesis...

Glashub

Owned a Genesis -- no complaints -- a really good car BUT they had better upgrade the ride/handling quite a bit.

KeithL

Leasing not real attractive in GA anymore due to tax changes, and while Audi does not subsidize their leases, I have found getting out of leases early harder now due to inflated residual values. Also the lease aquisition and termination fees and higher money factor rates take away all the financial advantages. I also wanted to be more in control of how long I own the car and be free to do what I want with the car without worrying about the turn in. I added wheels to the A6 and don't have to worry about end of lease. Besides the A6 seems to hold its value well so I should be able to get out in 2-3 years easily.

KeithL

WOW, hoping it is the bad angel of the shot, but not digging the nose of how it seems to slender toward the front.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

WTF they sent you a check for 750 for a 10 minute fix which was covered under warranty?! I've never heard of anything like that. That has to be like an industry first?

Edward'TLS

Yep, I still remembered back in the 90's, there were two cars that debut with 4 wheel steering. The Honda Prelude used the mechanical 4WS, whereas the Mazda MX6 used the computerized 4WS.

But car buyers didn't like 4WS, and both Honda and Mazda dropped this feature soon after.


The Audi A6 has never been a popular car in the used car market, but the A4 is. Perhaps the newest C7 A6 can change this trend.

KeithL

Resale on the A6 is actually better than Acura based on percentages same with ALG residual values. It m. Not be "popular" but I suspect that is because of the segment, it has a more limited market.

Glashub

They did. I sent an email to corp. stating I didn't think it was right that I should have to take time out of my day the 1st week -- where's my make good -- and got a call from a nice lady who said that they were going to make my 1st car payment but since I paid cash they'd send a check for what a 1st payment would've been. I was blown away too.

KeithL

Competition really brings out best of companies that care. Lexus is in a vulnerable spot, they are breaking into the tier 1 players and want to cement that place and take share from the Germans. So these models are very important and they are evidently taking customers seriously glad to see that.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

That's awesome. I've heard great things about Lexus customer service, I'm just waiting for the right Lexus for me to give them a try. Come to think of it I've only heard one bad thing about their customer service in a dealership, which eventually was made right by corporate. I really hope 750 isn't your monthly payment, not to take away anything from the IS but 750?!

Glashub

^^^^

No. I own the car outright. Not the highest use of my money but I'm old school that way -- love having that paper title with only my name on -- it locked away. I've never dealt with Acura corp. but have taken my TL's to 4 different dealers in 2 cities and must say the dealership experience and the care given with Acura is really top notch.

Rocket_man

Not sure is this means anything or not, but I don't see Acura on this list of companies making debuts at the LA Auto Show (22 Nov 1 Dec)

http://laautoshow.com/debut-vehicles/

The Detroit show opens to the industry on 15 Jan.

Rocket_man

Me neither, but it looks better from this angle.. scroll down to see the side view.

[URL="http://www.bobaedream.co.kr/view?code=newcar&No=17163&bm=1"]http://www.bobaedream.co.kr/view?code=newcar&No=17163&bm=1[/URL

(according to Bloomberg.com) A company rep says a production ready Genesis will be shown at the Detroit show. So if Hyundai can say this about their future vehicle, why can't Acura? If Acura will even have the TLX at the Detroit show. So if they both debut at the same show, which do you think will get the better press / most coverage?

Rocket_man

From kbb.com.....

"Hyundai Motor Company has confirmed a significant detail about its next-generation, 2015 Genesis: The premium sedan will be available with all-wheel drive. Dubbed HTRAC, for "Hyundai" and "Traction," it will be the first such system for the sedan, which has been rear-wheel drive since debuting in 2009, the same year it won the prestigious North American Car of the Year award. The 2015 Hyundai Genesis will be completely revamped inside and out.

While other details about the upcoming premium sedan are still foggy -- including powertrain information and pricing -- Hyundai says the new HTRAC system will electronically control torque split between the front and rear axles depending on road conditions, and will have various driver-selectable modes "for a sophisticated and tailored driving experience."

In addition to the enhanced cornering performance often equated with these systems, this one aims to be especially relevant for drivers in cold-weather states that must regularly contend with slick roads where traction is compromised. Offering such a system will also help the 2015 Genesis better compete with vehicles such as the BMW 5 Series, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac CTS and Lexus GS, which also offer all-wheel drive in lieu of rear-drive.

"Hyundai Motor's HTRAC system has secured best-in-class durability and driving performance through strict tests carried out in various locations worldwide, including the famed Nürburgring in Germany, the Yeongam F1 circuit in Korea and in severe winter tests in Europe," said Woong-Chul Yang, Vice Chairman and head of Hyundai Motor Group's R&D Center. "We expect our customers to feel world-class safety and driving performance in the all-new Genesis equipped with the HTRAC system."

Furthermore, Hyundai says HTRAC won't end with the second-gen Genesis. The automaker says it plans to offer the all-wheel-drive option to other future models in an effort to further strengthen its brand image and appeal to more buyers.

Stay tuned for more details about the 2015 Hyundai Genesis in the coming months ahead of its expected debut next year."

Acura??? Hello??? Any response? Something like... "Our new TLX, which will debut at _______ will be available with Acura's award winning SH-AWD... " Maybe they are trying to save money by limiting press releases.

fsttyms1

Sure it may be (as you put it) lame compared to SH-AWD, But they are 2 different systems on 2 different drives of the car. It surely doesnt hurt to have and market a PAWS system for the FWD only model that doesnt get to hold the label of SH-AWD.

And that 4ws was MUCH more different compared to this. This is far superior. Its not a ploy. I woiuldnt doubt if you start to see this even on SH-AWD systems. Having the system be able to toe in the tires during braking to help stabilize the car is big. Having it change the toe for cornering and quick maneuvers is very good to handling. Changing the toe of the wheels can have HUGE effect on handling, something that the old 4ws prelude couldnt do anywhere near the extent of PAWS

BEAR-AvHistory

Be interesting to see how the early adopters for the system make out with tire wear & maintenance.

"PAWS" is just too cute for words. Gotta be from a marketing department with to much time on their hands.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

PAWS + SH-AWD

a35tl

I had an '88 Honda Prelude 4WS. Loved that car. Mine was white with black interior and had the 5-spd manual transmission. That car was a hoot to drive. It wasn't very fast (only had 135 hp) but the 4 wheel steering system was so cool for its day. People always wanted to see me turn the steering wheel and watch the rear wheels turn. They marveled and being very young, I thought I was so cool owning a car that got attention.

A few years later I bought a '94 Honda Prelude VTEC. Now that car was really fun to drive. The VTEC surge was very impressive. Never owned the last generation Prelude though.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

5G are ugly anyway. 4G is where it was at. That dash...

And I agree VTEC was an awesome kick in the rear with those older DOHC H and B engines.

hadokenuh

Love those. Remember those '94-95 Accords with H22s in there. Sweet!

jim_c

I am still looking for the bad angel!

I am not really "old school", I'm quite convinced the old cars (i.e. everything prior to 1999 or so) were crap compared to what we have today. But I am also not at all into all this modern technology like electric steering and internet connectivity in vehicles and stuff like PAWS. Complicated systems add weight and require a dealership to fix when it goes bad. A guy I know has a Genesis. The touch screen died. He can't operate the car. Crazy.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

That's the future though. Either embrace it or stick with older cars.

And while we keep adding things...build materials are getting lighter, stronger, etc. I heard the next S5 is suppose to drop 800 lbs off the curb weight!

fsttyms1

Considering when its going to be activated and for the time its going to be activated i doubt any significant tire wear at all

BEAR-AvHistory

^^^^^
Was not thinking of activation was thinking about rear wheel alignment when its not active