Oswald Vater

My thoughts exactly when I saw Corey's list. Hopefully they will build the V-6 with FWD or Acura will have lost me as a customer. I don't want an I4 and I don't need AWD.

TeamAcura

It's crazy to think the LFA costs $375K and still lose money on it. All 500 units sold before it was even built.

a35tl

I agree with you. If they force me into an AWD car to get the V-6, I will do it simply because I love Acuras and am a loyalist but I would prefer the FWD V-6 in my TLX.

Corey_Straker

It's still all just speculation. But we really do believe that a DCT will replace a 6mt. As unfortunate as it is, we can only hope that both will be options for buyers.

With regards to the touch screen interface apparently they've changed something. We got in 2 RLX's last night and both of the systems were at least 10x zippier than those built before it? Maybe a software update is soon to come or a recall on older, slow systems.

On another note, I am a huge Acura fan, yet the Lexus LFA jump started there lineup. Suddenly F-Sport models of each type were coming out. This is really what Acura needs to do, just make hardcore "type-s" models.

docboy

It behooves me the cost of the LFA, $375k! I guess the market is out there, but for those who bought one, IMHO they bought for exclusivity. Aside from the exterior design, Yamaha tuned exhaust, and engine, to me it's not worth $375k, esp giving its unsophisticated transmission and questionable ergonomics.

I didn't realize all 500 units sold prior to being built. My local Lexus stealership here had a white LFA on the floor for sale a few months back. It was enclosed off by a barrier, and had a "Do not touch sign." Sticker was something like $385k with gas guzzler fee lol.

I rather have a 911 GT3 and have money left over for a MDX, boat, and put the rest in savings for my kid's college.

Colin

This is all speculation, but frankly, I think its certain there will be a FWD version with V-6 but no way they'll do a AWD version with a (current) 4 cylinder. And I mean NO WAY they'll add 300 lbs of SH-AWD hardware to a 200ish HP car.

TeamAcura

Not to get too far off topic but most of them were built to order. I partly agree it's for exclusivity but it outperforms just about every supercar it went head to head with and set lap records on circuits around the world. This is what over 10 years of development will bring you...world class performance at a very steep price. Basically a street legal F1 car. They claimed the LFA revved so fast an analog needle could not keep up with the RPM and speed lol.

If I was rich, I'd buy it and keep it for a very long time. It will only appreciate in value since it's very rare and has the performance to back it up

SSFTSX

if Acura raise the bhp of 4 cylinder engine to some thing like 220 to 230 with increased torque. and reduce the weight of new TLX to some thing equal to Accord. heavier FWD V6 may not be needed or sales may not take off as most people will chose Advance version of 4 cylinder than V6.
if TLX is closer in size to current TSX than it means it is TSX replacement not TL replacement.

KeithL

It is tough to get the weight down without using more costly materials. Also the TLX will need to be a quiet cabin so sound deadening takes up weight to. I have said this before, but the Japanese need to take one page out of the German playbook. Forced induction. My A6 is a 3.0 super charged engine making 310 HP and around 325 ft/lbs of torque in a 4100 lb car with AWD. I get the same or better MPG than my RWD M37S did or my 09 TL AWD and the AWD is full time without even trying. Once this car breaks in I am sure I will get great MPG. If Acura did not mess up the RDX turbo they could have been onto something. You take a 2.0 4 and put a turbo on it and you can make enough HP and still get decent MPG. Somehow Acura could not figure that out with the RDX. My gf had a RDX and that turbo was awful, horrible lag then it came on like a light switch.

Also like it or not looking at diesel options is a viable alternative, let Audi pave the way here, but I think diesel once the US gets over the nightmares from the old GM attempts will realize it is a good balance of torque and MPG.

3.2TLc

Acura apparently is trying to realign it's product line. Their SUV's are very popular and undoubtedly will remain so. The upper end latest RLX with the AWD will introduce a "hybrid" 370 hp V-6 motor. This appears to be the direction that Honda engineers are promoting the Acuras with such as the nearly 600 hp "hybrid" NSX for 2015.

So, this leaves the TL~TSX replacement ( "TLX" ) to hopefully become the brand's best selling luxury sedan. Honda probably felt that the previous TL and TSX competed against each other for sales. Therefore the marriage to blend the best features of each into an all new model. The optional SH-AWD will more than likely be mated with a "hybrid" V-6 and more efficient transmissions. TLX sizing and prices will be more than likely comparable to the current TL's. The ILX has some big shoes to fill as the lower priced compact size, so it'll soon be up for some thought to help boost the model's appeal. Could only hope so !!!

Corey_Straker

I know how they might do the weight savings, just like they did on the RLX. With an Aluminum hood, trunk, fenders, door-skins, and suspension components. I could have never known that unless I wasn't bored playing with a magnet

I'd defiantly think it's safe to say we will know the V6 will be a 3.5L DI V6 with like 300hp. I doubt they'd give it more than the RLX with 310 but you never know, they've done it before.

TeamAcura

4G currently has an aluminum hood. So they need to find other ways to cut weight.

Corey_Straker

Oh what I would do to see some carbon fiber parts on a TL from factory. Like a CF roof ( bmw m3 ), CF fenders, hood, trunk, interior components.

But that's about as likely as getting a Turbo V6 or supercharger from the factory.

KeithL

I wonder if they are holding off bumping up the ILX engine until the TSX is gone so they don't kill its sales yet. Maybe when the TLX comes out the 15 ILX will get a 2.4 in a 6AT

TeamAcura

IMO, aside from its controveral looks what really took away a lot of the 4G sales was the 2G TSX. Now that the TSX is on the chopping block, it will help improve sales for the TLX once its out on the market. Only time will tell.

hadokenuh

I am pretty sure this is the case. The 2.0 engine is weak and embarrassing IMO.

Corey_Straker

That it is. Very embarrassing, K20Z3 form the 06-11 Civic Si made 197hp, our 2.0L K20 makes 150hp. Hmmmmmm. It's very under powered. I'd like to see the new Accord power plant end up in the ILX. It would be plenty zippy then.

3.2TLc

Perhaps even a coupe or maybe a sport wagon for the ILX ???

SSFTSX

your comparing 8speed auto fuel economic with 5speed auto TL.
The point is if they are introducing 4 cylinder TLX with Advance package that will practically kill the sales of FWD V6 in base & tech trims. It happened with TSX V6 even though it was only competing against tech package.
how many FWD TL advance sales are there?
DI V6 engine will make FWD V6 advance package closer to $50k.
Advance package TLX 4cylinder some thing closer to $40k.
Acura comes with larger wheels and wider tires with better handling. in order to compensate this extra weight and friction. the 4 cylinder engine need to strong enough to be faster than 4 cylinder Accord. Acura also much bolstered seats than Honda. All these things will add weight.
The car need to brought to the size of IS250 so that its 4cylinder engine is competitive. Acura is all about resale value and reliability. 4 cylinder forced induction will make it unviable for long term.

KeithL

It is more than 8AT at play, it is smaller displacement and induction that helps. As for I4 Advance killing V6 Advance sales not sure I fully agree. There are some that want a V6 period, unless that I4 can do 250-300HP and have the torque to back it up. I am not sure you will see the I4 in Advance trim, I suspect you will see it in Tech, but Advance I think initially will be held for V6. They can only take current DI to a certain point, they will eventually have to look at diesel and/or induction or they will be left trailing the pack. resale/reliability won't mean anything if all the competitors are getting 30% better MPG in a few years and gas is $5 a gallon

Corey_Straker

I really doubt Acura will go to a forced induction system again, they completely ditched it in RDX. The answer to them is hybrids. Look at the NSX, we know that isn't going to have any type of forced induction. It will have 3 electric motors and one gas v6. I can see this being the future of there cars.

SSFTSX

I said 4 cylinder Advance killing sales of base/tech V6. and Advance V6 will be limited to justify FWD V6. this thing can fall apart just like TSX V6 sales that you cannot find on dealer lots now. and only tech V6 remaining the base V6 was completely eliminated.
you have to understand going to V6 from 4 cylinder the cost jump is high for Acura (compare to going from 4 cylinder to 6 cylinder Accord).

Honda does not have 6 cylinder diesel. and 2.2 diesel is likely to be phase out in favour of 1.6 diesel. so there is no diesel in pipeline at this point for heavier Acura cars.

I dont think real world fuel economic of even current TL SH-AWD 6AT that much worse than Audi 3.0T.
TL Advance SH-AWD is getting 20.6mpg.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...IEWS/130819792

A6 prestige 19.3 mpg.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...IEWS/110919942

weather

I still think that the TLX should have a turbo 4...I agree with Keith on that one. I am doubtful it will but otherwise, how can they justify having the TLX with a 200hp engine?

The ILX needs the 200 hp engine, the TLX needs a base model with 250 hp engine (4 turbo), a TLX with a v6 with 300hp and a SH-SH-AWD with a 330hp (electrically assisted)

The base RLX would have about 310hp (so more than the V6 TLX) and the RLX SH-SH-AWD would have about 350+ to make it more than the TLX.

Come on Acura....its not rocket science! Surely, if I can think of this in my PJ's sitting in my la-z-boy, you can figure it out in your 5 piece suit and executive chair!!

PS...Do you need me to send you a sketch on a napkin to show you how to design a car that inspires passion?

KeithL

I agree that is their direction, I also think that is a bad bet as the only bet. Hybrids come with their own set of problems, first they don't sell we'll in this class of car, curious to see how the Q50 hybrid does. The big complaint on the Q50 hybrid is the very small trunk. Also hybrids come with a hefty price premium that from a pure MPG payback usually takes 3-4 years to break even. Infiniti pushed their M35h with 360HP, fastest acceleration, yada, yada yada and still I think I have seen 1 in 3 years. Also hybrid only brings you so much, at some point again you need either displacement or induction.

3.2TLc

The more "Eco-friendly" technology is driven by our federal government. Automobile manufacturers have to show some initiative towards complying with the future pending requirements. It's all politically driven, IMO.

Smaller compact entry level vehicles have an even more difficult task of passing the costs of hybrid technology on to the buying public. Look at the Chevy Volt. So, now GM is going to try a different approach with the Caddy coupe.

It's apparent that all of the manufacturer's are pulling straws in dealing with this issue. The government will have to find better ways to subsidize the mandated program. In the mean time, they're obligated to find alternative ways to power our cars. A tough job for them and us !

boe_d

Are you sure? I sure see a LOT of es300h on the road out here. Do you consider the 300h in a higher class than the TL because of the price? I believe currently the 300h is 20% of the total ES sales and conservatively expected to be 25% of this coming years sales.

KeithL

I will agree on the Lexus, not sure it is 20% as I see some, but far more non-hybrid. Lexus/Toyota are the hybrid kings and have an advantage, but they seem to be the exception. The rest of the Lexus hybrids are not doing as well, the hybrid sedan has been pulled, replaced by the Gen-Y CT, but that car is barely a Lexuw, I have driven one and it feels more like a Prius rather than a Lexus.

SSFTSX

200bhp IS250 and now 320i are selling well. i see plenty on the road. the only point for TLX is that it will reduce the sales of V6 FWD to point that Acura will stop building it in numbers so less choice on dealer lots.

how many 6 cylinder 3 series are there now?
http://fremont.bmwoffremont.com/Bay-Area/For-Sale/New/

boe_d

Yeah the previous Lexus hybrids just didn't have the right amount of fuel savings with acceleration - like accord hybrid fiasco - plenty of hp but almost no fuel savings and the lexus had some fuel savings but no acceleration.

The 300h got the right combination. Early reports on the Accord is that it also has the right combination however as you say, the question is the quality of the accord hybrid solution. Honda makes some great products but they haven't really proved their hybrid quality yet.

I know plenty of people who make more money than I do and most seem very interested in the tesla vehicles. I realize they aren't in the same category as hybrids but I think there is room for hybrids in the luxury market PROVIDED they have good acceleration, reasonable trunk space and very good fuel efficiency. We've been shorted in at least one of these categories in the past but the 300h is a huge step in the right direction. A TLX hybrid might also offer that as well based on the acceleration and mpg of the Accord hybrid. It is a shame the IS300h isn't coming to the US this year. I'm sure it will come next year as Toyota tends to use Europe as their test environment before bringing their newest toys to the US.

SSFTSX

Honda Accord hybrid is rated 50mpg and that car is 200bhp.
there is possiblity that Acura 4 cylinder Hybrid more powerfull some thing like 250bhp and 40mpg.
There should be some thing in between RLX sport hybrid and Accord hybrid.



Nissan path finder 2.5 hybrid is 250bhp and 243 ft-lb of torque rated 25/27 for AWD.

boe_d

I hope they don't make a 250 hp and sacrifice 10mpg. I don't need more horsepower as I'm not towing a trailer or my doublewide home behind my car. If it increased acceleration for 0-60mph to 5 seconds it might have some benefit but what am I going to do with an extra 50HP unless I have a family of 5 very obese adults and live at the top of a mountain?

SSFTSX

THe point is Acura hybrid is going to lose mpg anyway due to heavier weight and wider tire/larger rim combo.
I dont think Acura will settle for car that handle same like Honda.
Camry hybrid/Avalon/ES300h handles same with same set of tires. no fundamental difference.
If Acura is going to lose mpg to Honda anway so why not make it more powerfull. we know Acura claimed 30/30mpg for RLX sport hybrid. Anything above 30mpg for city will be winner provided it give acceleration closer to V6.
Acura claim is RLX sport hybrid will have performance similar to V8. so lesser hybrid should atleast match performance of V6.

012TL-GLM

No amount of tech is going to help the RLX at this point. The car is an aesthetic fail and at that price point there will be no points awarded for what's in the cabin. I would buy a new Avalon, or the Kia Cadenza over an RLX.

The TLX is Acura's last chance. The new Accord is a success. All they need is a new skin, a few more bells and whistles, foldable rear seats, and sales should be excellent. Whatever Acura's plans were for the RLX SH-SH-AWD system I hope they planned to include them for the TLX.

Seems a successful formula would be offering the TLX with a FWD V6, FWD Hybrid, SH-AWD V6, and the top package including the new system they've been babbling about for the NSX. Scrap the RLX, go back to the drawing board, come back in a few years with a new name if you want to compete in the large luxury segment.

Cygnus_X1

One of the Acura dealers here in So Cal is already advertising $8,000 off list on some of the RLX's. $53k for a top of the line RLX isn't too bad but it shows that no one is buying them. The TLX needs to be good.

SSFTSX

It is not just RLX but ILX that is extremely poorly receieved. You can see from used car prices.
Acura never had this problem of selling so many deeply discounted loaners in first year of new model.

ILX hybrid tech package asking $26,500
http://www.losgatosacura.com/used/Ac...8a093e1165.htm

ILX tech package $25k
http://www.losgatosacura.com/used/Ac...d55f1d67cd.htm


It seems Acura is now afraid of launching new sedan.

George Knighton

Only 7,000 Cadillac ATS?

I'm surprised, considering how much the motor press praises it.

3.2TLc

Government Motors !
Ya gotta realize that there's alot of hype and propaganda that is involved here.

George Knighton

I dunno. They're saying the SH-AWD version will have an automated manual and *average* 30mpg.

Ugly or not, that might very well be enough tech to make me buy it. :-)

:-/ "Practical" luxury and "rational" performance, I guess. If they're finally going with automated manuals then (as we know with other makes) the automated manual might very well perform better with both mpg and acceleration.

I have a 6-6 now, and I'll miss shifting for myself. But if I understand their reasons correctly, I might still buy into it.

The dyno tests that I've seen on the RLX seem to hint that raw net power is down on the J35 Earthdreams compared to the J37 motor, despite how they're rated.

I dunno. I think they must have the high efficiency hybrid system in the TLX to keep people like me interested.

Maybe it's a different Earthdreams motor for the TLX and not the 310 HP (rated) version in the FWD RLX.

boe_d

I was a huge fan of Acura but they really refused to listen to their customers. Their vehicles have become ugly as sin. I realize a vehicle takes a long time to redesign but by year 2 of the 4G TL they should have had a plan to replace it within 2 years. Just accept it - controversial is a nice way of saying a few people like them but the majority don't and they have spoken by not buying the cars. Sure lets say it is the economy. Why then are the percentage of vehicles such as the Lexus and BMW not as severely impacted.

Are we going to declare Vista and Windows 8 just an economic thing? No, they were not well received by the general public - let's call it controversial and ignore the feedback of consumers.

I would really like for Acura to make a huge comeback with the TLX. It is going to have to be good looking and going to have to have good tech for the money. Acura was at the perfect price point for serious tech and a reasonable price. However the market has changed, Ford has $20,000 cars with serious tech but Acura's are not as much of a bargain as they used to be. If they try and sell the TLX for even $5,000 less than the ES, it is going to be a tough battle. Lexus is selling their hybrid ES for a little over $2,000 difference in price. Honda is charging up the wazoo for their hybrid Accord. Acura better try and win some new converts by pricing the TLX hybrid much much closer to the standard TLX and keeping the price of the standard TL very low.

Rocket_man

If so they'd have to bump up the I4 in the TLX. Which I do hope they do.

That would be nice. The rumor is the MY15 IS will have a new 2.5L turbo with somewhere around 250hp. That would be a huge improvement over the legacy small six.

Lincoln is upping their MKZ hybrid production to 40%. The key was they priced the hybrid and the 2.0L engine at the same price point. Unfortunately they hybrid is not quite making their advertised FE but they are tweaking it. I've driven both. The hybrid is not too bad but you are right, the big draw back is the trunk and lack of spare.

I can only assume you are referring to 'the beak' which it may be news to you, but it has been gone for 2 years now. I think they pretty much listened on that one. I've heard of Acura's recent styling as 'boring' but never 'ugly as sin.' I can only assume that is your personal opinion. That's fine of course, but if that is the case I'm not sure how you could be a 'huge fan of Acura.'

Honda hasn't announced pricing on the Hybrid Accord. You are probably confusing this with the Plug-in Hybrid... a different car.