silverbulleTL

^^multi grade oil, and you're in bakersfield...isn't it hotter out there mostly compared to so-cal?
then again, i find absolutely no reason to shell out extra $$ for a multi-grade formulation oil.
i've been looking around for straight w30 for my rx8 and found that kragen has quite a few to select from. so my problem is solved, and no more pinging marbles in a can noise right after i use w30 oil.

xtralight

Good hypothesis but I do not agree.

When I made test runs with the Acura tech, my TL-S did not ping and it did not suddenly backed the timing when I was in WOT in any gear. If your theory was exact, it would have ping since temperature increases proportionnally with load. Pulls in 5th and 6th gear where the load is the highest did not provoke any sudden change of timing. All the timing was measured live with the Acura computer that the tech plugged in my car.

All my pinging occur like the others, in 2th and 3th gear with partial throttle around 3000-4000 rpm.

And I live in northen Canada. Even with -20°F, the car pings... all we need is a remapping of the ECU. No CAI, different oil weight, colder spark plugs or anything else will work.

xtralight

Your car pings also but much less. Try go up an inclined road in 2th or 3th gear with partial throttle and accelerate smoothly in the incline. You might hear it but it is very muted compared to the TL-S. All recent 3.5L V6 from Honda do ping a little. It is the nature of the beast...

evanj5

Like I has said before my wifes 06 MDX pings too and what we have here is Acura cutting corners.

They believe (and its a fact) that their customer base in general are going to be driving their cars very moderatly. Even when I drive the MDX I rarely ever hear the pinging because I am rarely ever above 3000 rpm. So they want to get people impressed by the gas milage numbers versus the hp even though these people will never utilize the high end of these engines. Unfourtunately the TL-S takes the biggest hit in regards to this as these engines and ECU mapping are naturally geared towards moderate driving staying under 3000 rpm getting good gas milage and super low emissions. Acura was not about to remove any of these aspects from the TL-S just to impress the small percentage of acura owners that car a lot about performance. Acura is about reliability, technology and luxury at a good price and thats exactly why they got rid of the RSX to uphold this image.

Just pray that hondata makes a reflash, but I wouldnt bet on this becuase the gains would probably be minimul and hondata is not going to market something that has minimul gains.

All we need is a TRUE TYPE-S ECU mapping not a modified 3.5L Jseries RL/MDX mapping.

I will keep bringing this up everytime I go to dealer for oil change and get something in writing that states a CAI will not void my warranty because I know the CAI will help a little. I wonder if having a full ATLP jpipe + exjhuast will help pinging at all? Does a less restrictive exhaust allow for lower temps?

junktionfet

Yeah it's possible that Acura assumes all of their customers don't know what pinging is and/or won't hear it, therefore it is not a priority for them to tune the engine in such a way that pinging is rare. That's a horrible way to engineer something and most owners would not be pleased to know that.

I should have kept the TSX and gotten one of those leftover Comptech S/C kits for it. Even with boost I bet that K24 would ping less than what I have now.

I hate cars

You're probably the first person I've met that sees things the same way. I'm running the Amsoil 10-30/30. It's actually a straight 30 with no VIIs but since it flows well when cold it qualifies as a 10-30 also. Lots of Zinc and stuff for less wear but it can't get an API certificate since the ZDDP levels are higher than the max allowed.

These same motors spec up to a 10-40 over in Europe where there is no CAFE trying to squeeze that extra .5mpg. While I don't think the 5-20 is harmful in normal driving conditions, it definately burns off easier and offers less protection with hard use.

I hate cars

I think our particular problems are based solely on the engine management issues so I agree with you there that it's not the oil. The thicker oil usually has less votility and is a little harder to squeeze past the rings and valve guides into the combustion chamber. Burning oil drastically lowers effective octane rating but I don't think this is the problem with our cars.

silverbulleTL

thank you for agreeing with me. and let those that don't agree with me be... i see the same thing happening again when i had a honda, and while the only honda in possesion now is my wife's TL, i've already made some slight changes and adjustments. the first was oil, and its been working fine.
i know whats fine and i drive very hard...so i know what to use, and i don't fall in to that synthetic marketing. i'm not saying its bad, its just as good. but i rather spend it on 2 early oil changes and keep the car in top shape.

anyway, if no-one finds results with using a w30, so be it. but its not to say it didn't help. it just didn't help enough to yield instant results...

and if someone thought having a cai will cure pinging... it won't! it just needs a richer mixture. for a car that already pings, having cold denser air will just ask for more ping and detonation. it already pings due to the lack of fuel...so why more air? i see the problem here being the cylinder head may be running really hot, and the fuel line below the manifold may have extra heat retained.
i've thought of heat shielding off the fuel rail below the manifold when i had it off once for cleaning...but didn't think anyone would really had this problem. i just saw it was a flaw to be fixed...but i had no symptoms, so i did not.
but that may be an idea to try. again, its a accumulation of all efforts that may yield a satisfying result.
-oil weight
-colder plugs
-CAI...may also have a positive effect
-heat insulant wrap (thermotec wrap or any other)
-cut out larger opening by driver side lower grill for more colder air ramming in
-removed front grill backing
-water wetter
etc...

of the above, i have at least five done...no problems here, and pinging??? never yet to experience that yet. hope to never will, and i'll continue to drive hard until i do.

cheers, happy tuning

Bearcat94

Thermo Wrap where, exactly?

What is "water wetter" and how is it used?

silverbulleTL

well...its been 1~2yrs since i took off the intake manifold. but i'm sure you can get fancy with the placement of some thermotec wrap when you remove the intake manifold, and clean at the same time.

waterwetter is a redline product. it is a coolant that states will help promote lower coolant temps. just add directly into the radiator. buy at any autostore(autozone)

try wrapping off the fuel rail if you find it and around surrounding manifold areas. you can go for the cleaner look and wrap off only the undersides of it if you wish.

really, i hope these things will help some of you guys out. it must be a real headache for you new type s owners to have a car and already have problems...yet after my wife's tl's first oil change had i tinker with it and experience none of these driveability problems. i truly feel for you guys. and i hope the lay-out is similar enough that it can be a mechanical fix, so what i suggest may possibly work on your type s' as well.

silverbulleTL

o, p.s., i would not recommend using waterwetter with straight water in your radiator unless if only for race purposes. run normal type2 honda coolant with your waterwetter...or make it a 60/40 mix. coolant is also a lubricant for your waterpump and seals...so don't use straight water with waterwetter trying to yield the best results as stated on the bottle.

use it as a added peace of mind, not if your cooling system is having problems. in which case, it should be fixed at the dealer and addressed, not masked.

Bearcat94

Thanks.

I'm one of the lucky one's. My pinging goes away (or at least becomes inaudible) below about 65* ambient temp.

The past few weeks we've been mostly in the 50's or mid/upper 40's and the car is as strong as it's ever been - sounds good, runs good.

But come 90*+ in the summer-time, I'm afraid it's going to sound (and run) terrible.

silverbulleTL

bearcat, mind letting me know where you're located in english?
yeah, its been pretty cold in so-cal lately. i guess i've never experience any pinging in the '05 tl as it was picked up in late dec '04. and all cooling months were done in a matter of the next few months...i guess early preventative measure played a role in a platform i saw strange and inferior compared to such a big front grill section of the tsx...similar front end.
anyways, try keeping your car as cool as possible. it may help and hopefully you never experience it.

Bearcat94

Charlotte, NC

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...8019&z=11&om=0

Google Maps FTW.

I've definetly had pinging last summer/fall. Acura dealer service heard it and I've got a case at Client Services.

Next Oil Change, the 5W30 or 10W30 will be on the repair order. Hopefully a CAI in a couple months.

Acura doesn't seem to interested in doing anything for the cars on the road with this problem. Maybe if they have to replace a few engines things will be different.

2007TL-S

Well I finally took my car to the dealership for a dead battery after a year but while it was there I mentioned the pinging issue just to see what they would say. I didn't walk back with the sales guy but he went to talk to the master mechanic. It was 38 degrees and the head mechanic rev'd it in park and said everything was fine. (According to the sales guy) Then he had the nerve to say that if anything was the problem is was because I was using the wrong type of gas. I told him I always run BP 93 octane and he said that the only gas he trusts is Chevron or Shell and that other companies are just putting 87 octane in all the pumps. I actually laughed that their solution to purchasing a 40K car was to drive all over creation and just look for a Chevron gas station. When it warms up again I will take it back in and start the uphill battle to at least get someone to admit there is a problem.

I hate cars

I'm a frequent oil changer but I've been forcing myself to get close to the 20% mark before changing with synthetic. I run synthetic for a couple reasons.

The main reason is I want a straight weight oil. This means no VIIs which help cause shear. A straight weight synthetic will flow better cold than a straight weight dino so you sort of get the best of both worlds. My Amsoil is a straight 30 but also qualifies as a 10-30 due to it's good cold flow.

Second is in the event that something goes wrong such as overheating, the synthetic won't break down as easily and will offer a little more protection.

In the trans too, not only do I use a cooler and filter but I run a VII free synthetic there too. Big reason is the trans has a design flaw. Due to the defective 3rd gear clutch packs and steels, temps inside the clutch packs will soar to near the flashpoint of a conventional oil even though the sump temps are ok. The synthetic won't fix the problem but may extend the inevitable a little longer. I'm sure if mine goes out early I'm going to be pretty pissed for spending over $300 in synthetics.

Back on topic... I've done some of the things you said. I changed to colder plugs early on and it helped- at first. The pinging came back after a day.

I plugged the hot water lines to the throttlebody.

More octane- I did this in increments. 91 is all that's available here. I did mixes of 100 in increments starting at approx 93 octane. Pinging went away for a day or so then came back. Mixed it stronger with 100 and pinging went away again for a day or so but came back. I finally realized to stop the pinging permanently required 96-97 octane and this was recently verified with a scanner.

What the octane tests show me is that the computer will continue advancing the timing until the detonation threshold is found or until it can't advance any more.

As for more air, the water temp runs cooler than a lot of new cars. Mine only showed 187 degrees on the scanner no matter how hard I drove it. Still, wouldn't hurt to have more air passing over the motor. Mine pings the same whether summer or winter.

It's been run on the dyno and I did a few "pulls" simulating normal driving and the A/F was no leaner than most new cars and actually went very rich when vtec hit. I did this early on because I suspected the pinging was from running too lean.

I come from a hotrodding background and it's taking lots of will power to not "experiment" with my daily driver.

2007TL-S

This mirrors what must be happening in real world driving conditions. As I have previously posted if I drive the car hard and frequently get into the uppper rpms the exhaust tips and the back of my car so signs of heavy soot or a very rich condition.

So what does it take it terms of octane boosters to achieve 96-97 octane ratings?

evanj5

5 gallons of 93 pump gas and one gallon of xylene = 97

117(octance of xylene) * (1/6) = 19.5

93 * (5/6) = 77.5


19.5 + 77.5 = 97

silverbulleTL

ihatecars: its good that you of all people understand taking necessary preventative measures. and there are obvious mods and DIY's you can do backyard hotrod style instead of bringing it into the dealer. people nowadays are so anal and want their new car to be perfect that they don't know how to see a "flaw" even when its in front of their face.

that said, the earlier TL models did have trans problems. and a retro fit "jet kit" on top of the trans plug feeds fluid directly to the 2nd gear. i know this and know people and the field...and was in the field myself for a while. so yeah...you can be right on the money about that one for the new models as well. i just haven't heard anything of it, and i don't know what are the design changes. but keeping the tranny cool and in top shape is also a priority.

that said, i still wonder how or who of the '07 type s owner will go about addressing heat and pinging issues on this car. i really think giving some care and attention to cylinder heads by the firewall and battling heat problems there will have some gains, then again i'm not certain. it couldn't hurt given its design...

good cure. but i think a permanent way would be better. given not every one will mix octane ratios...and there are ones that you gotta teach division again to show them how to get a proper ratio. and not only that, there's only one 76gas station at pasadena here in so-cal that carry 100 unleaded oct.

anyway, good guy, and i hope i/you/or someone can provide a more permanent and easiest fix for the type s. its harder for me as i'm working off of the '05 model...but i'll see what i can do.

I hate cars

I agree, the octane is a temporary solution until Acura or someone on here figures out the real cure. Just trying to keep the engine from hammering itself to death before the cure comes...

dingdongman

Acura of Orange Park has offered a great trade to get me out of this pinging nightmare. I will either take the deal on the new 08tl-s for my 07tl-s with 8k miles OR I will return the car for its third attempt at a fix and then proceed with Lemon Law motions here in Florida. Its a pretty clear case considering service basically told me that they are out of ideas and TECH told them they have no other support options for owners either at this time. I would probably get the most out of the lemon proceedings but I am so sick and tired of wasting my life on this issue it actually makes me consider trying a different brand after 20 years of driving this brand. After owning just about every price point Honda and acura including the NSX, vigors, mdx, tls, tl, tsx, accord, civic on and on it makes me sad to end the relationship over this as I await the release of the new NSX but I really am fed up with the attitudes I get from them.
Jake at Acura of Orange Park is a great asset but they are about to lose him as well since they could care less about employees as well. At least they are consistent.
Can anyone verify that the 08 TL-S is different or just too new to see the trend yet?

Thnx for the input here and hopefully I can salvage this lifebrand relationship.
Ding-Dong

joelsaxton

I haven't heard of the 08's pinging..

evanj5

What kinda of deal did they offer you? Where in FL are you located?

The other thing I dont understand is what could they have done differently with the 08 that the pinging wouldnt gone away if they are they same car??????

joelsaxton

maybe there was some improper machining for a large number of the 07 engines? All I can think. If an ECU fix doesn't work, what else could explain it?

nahmed

Hello,

I had a similar issue with my 05 TL and they got that fixed, anyways I traded mine in for an 06 and the issue was not there with the 06 . With the 05 they replaced the heat shield and the nuts and bolts that put it together. Apparently at certain RPM's the heatsheild vibrates and makes that pinging noise.

I hope this helps, thanks!

evanj5

The heat shield is a seperate issue.

I am going tomorow for service i have a feeling i am going to be given the run around.

Bearcat94

Thanks for checking in.

Thats the first thing they checked on mine and that wasn't it.

CedarLake

Although I don't know much about oil, I've always been told that 5w20 was best for our cold climate, at least in winter. I also drove an Integra that ran just fine with 5w20 for 14 years, and I'd probably still be driving it if it wasn't for a bozo that burned a red light.

I think there may be something even more wrong as a couple days ago it didn't even want to start. After calling roadside assistance, I gave it another shot while waiting and it started with a bang, literally, it back fired, smelled like a diesel and then settled. The car's going to dealer on 28th for usual service and to look into problems.

CedarLake

My non-pinging 04, although it didn’t sound happy at high RPM, it performed real good and also gave me about 100 Km (62 miles) more per tank so the idea that 06 is tuned for better mileage really doesn’t work for me. The only good thing about the 06’s engine is that it sounds like it was meant to live at high RPMs, almost worth the extra gas but not the embarrassing pinging.

evanj5

going to pick up my car after work today. They told me they were going to run some tests on the car.

I would be very surprised (happilly proven wrong) if I am told anything but "we found nothing" from the service dept.

Ill let you guys know.

evanj5

Ok well I didnt talk to anyone just picked up the car.

The pinging is gone completely and when I step on the gas in third gear at 3000 rpm the car feels the way it should for once. Dont know if it will stay that way but I will pray.

I also had the MTF changed per TSB and it feels a lot better.

Drivers side mirror rattle is gone as well.

Here is what it says for the pinging.

CUSTOMER REPORTS PINGING FROM ENGINE
TEST TO CONFORM PINGING .
REC.RESET PCM.
RESET PCM, CHECK TEMP.SENSOR.NORMAL.FUEL TRIN LIAN NORMAL.
TEST DRIVE FINE.10 MIL.

LOL I turned the car in with a 20 mpg reading. I get the car back with a 13 mpg rating and they only drove 11 miles.

I must say after driving the TSX for two days it was a reliefe getting into the drivers seat of the TL-S wow. Now I really have a sense of how fast this car is!!!!
You forget sometimes.

junktionfet

Yeah I sometimes regret parting with my TSX... but then I remember what I thought of the TL-S on my first test drive--gobs of smooth power by comparison.

My '06 TSX 6 speed would hold even (plus or minus) with my friend's '03 TL-S Automatic up to about 80mph (which is where we would stop "racing").

We "raced" my '07 TL-S 6 speed against his '03 TL-S up to about 80mph and the difference is pretty amazing. By that time I was about 3 cars ahead of him. I expect my old TSX would do about the same. It wasn't bad by any means, but it just can't keep up.

Bearcat94

Is what the dealer did for evanj5, Resetting the PCM, different than what was talked about earlier - resetting the ECU?

How is the PCM reset?

Also what is "FUEL TRIN LIAN NORMAL"?

I hate cars

Different terms, same thing...

They're probably talking about the long term fuel trim being normal. Just showing that the computer isn't having to add or subtract fuel to compensate for things like clogged injectors, bad fuel pump, etc.

I've got an update... Haven't changed a thing other than the girlfriend used the car for a week so I could use her Murano to move. She filled it up with 89 octane by accident. The car felt smoother and I couldn't get it to ping. I took it to my friend's shop to use the scanner after work and there was no part throttle pinging and only minimal retard at WOT. Go figure. Humidity was pretty high today but temps are about the same as the last time I scanned it. Car feels faster. I give up lol.

evanj5

PCM is the same thing we were talking about with ECU. However they probably did this by pulling a specific fuse. Something was different compared to the time when I did the ECU reset talked about in the main forum because the pinging is gone for now.

About the 89 octane thing. I had a similar experiance I_hate_cars. I usually go to shell and use my shell card everytime. A couple weeks back I filled up with Mobil and the pinging went away for a day or two. PCM is recalibrating or something. If the PCM reset is the solution then down the road a lot of us are probably going to be making PCM reset switches in the cabin. I saw this in another car forum. I wish we could get a tech in here to verify the reseting method.

What is interesting about the service I got is if you notice the third line. REC.RESET PCM. I am pretty sure that is the code they pulled from the ECU when they ran a diagnostic.

I know a perfect solution !!!! Hondata Reflash and set vtec to 3300 rpm

Good Bye for now. Going to go buy an intake

I hate cars

While I was reading this, I asked the girl where she filled up at and it was Fastrip. I always go to Chevron. Could it be that they're just using 87 in all the pumps and that calculated 96 octane that it takes to totally stop the pinging is actually 92. When I ran the turbo car on pump gas and it was tuned to the max I could only run Texaco because anything other brand would show up as retard on the scanner.

Bearcat94

If that's the case, looking at the 2007 Owners Manual there are 2 fuses with descriptions related to the ECU/PCM:

Under Hood Fuse Box

#8: FI ECU
#19: FI ECU (ECM/PCM)

Seems to me #19 is the likely candidate.

What are the possible adverse effects of pulling, then re-installing either (or both) of those two fuses?

evanj5

Seems like this is actually a good thing for our cars. I wouldnt worry about the effects

Bearcat94

I agree. Just wanting to make sure nothing would go wrong from pulling that fuse. I doubt it, but .... .

dingdongman

I went ahead I got an nsx to drive until I get the TL-S problem resolved. I am going to cordially move up the chain to see if I can find a reasonable solution to this issue and gladly accept a buyback of my car by Acura.

Please list all of the dealerships who have ackowledged this issue. Even better would be the ones who have seen the problem with a computer connected while driving. Also any tech rep. or regional manager's names will be helpful in this effort. If the nice route doesnt provide results I am prepared to move to the alternative route to resolve the problem.

Thanks for the info and hopefully I can urge them into providing a solution to our problems. If not I will be able to provide information which will make it easier for you to use the alternative method as well.

Ps, a friend just got a new mercedes for a window leak using the lemon law so it is possible. Don't give up demanding quality from auto manufacturers for high end vehicles like the TL AND TL-S.