joelsaxton

So I tested my car this weekend. Acura's ECU reflash did seem to do something - the engine seems to run a little stronger and it seems to ping less - I am still able to replicate the pinging problem, however. I also had it ping louder than I ever heard it before for about a second during acceleration. So, although improved, the problem still exists. I am going to call the regional case manager to let him know.

evanj5

What reflash?

My engine as well started pinging again but not as bad as before.

I did try and reset the ECU/PCM by pulling both of the fuses and again a slight improvement but some slight pinging was there.

So still I dont know what they did at the dealership or if the actually way of reseting the ecu/pcm envolves more then just pulling the fuses or maybe you are supposed to do some revs in nuetral. I dont know.

Next time I go to the dealer I am going to try and find out exactly what they did. In the meantime I am getting the CAI and TB spacer and will see if there are any improvements.

Bearcat94

There's some things about "resetting" the ECU I just don't understand.

- If you pull the fuses or disconnect the battery, how does that do any good UNLESS the ECU "memory" is always drawing power?

- If it doesn't *always* draw power, then the only way to interupt power is by pulling the ECU/PCM fuse(s) when the car is running. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

I'd guess the dealer does a reset by selecting it as an option on their HDS tool.

I'd really appreciate if someone can confirm if and how an owner can properly reset the ECU.

Today's ambient temp 58* according to the MID = ping, ping, ping.

The past 2 weeks had been blissfully quiet and the car has been a rocket (so to speak).

evanj5

Yeah the ecu draws power all the time. Very little power but it does.

When you disconnect battery the trip computer gets reset.

Bearcat94

OK evanj5, thanks. I got to thinking about it and couldn't figure the diff between disconnecting the battery and pulling fuses - both interupt the circuit.

That lead to the question about "retained" power. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

dingdongman

would assume that the ecu has non-volatile memory and needs a command to reset. Wouldn't imagine a loss of power would remove hysterisus info which defines shift points etc for these cars. Let us know what you find out.

Where did TECH#### Something go? No posts in awhile from him. They were very technically informative and appreciated. Will make great arbitration info!

harddrivin1le

It should be obvious by this point that Acura has no intention of resolving this issue, that there are no true "fixes" and that the only solution is to dump the car.

The problem is that you'll probably have to trade it on another Acura product, since all other buyers/dealers would acknowledge the pinging problem and walk away from the car.

Any Acura dealer who claims the problem doesn't exist can't use it an excuse to walk away from the car.


I'll dump mine the month the problem begins, since I'd rather be out ~ $8K than live with it.

dingdongman

called acura and got a case number today. am starting the process to have the car replaced or lemon'd. Wont accept "we dont hear it" as an answer. Sounds raggedy and awful coming from such a high end car.

NSX arrives on Tuesday...at least that wont sound like a bucket of bolts!

joelsaxton

"We dont hear it" was the answer I got - but what can you do if they don't acknowledge it?

evanj5

Thought this write up was very good, its not about the TL however there was a lot of good information about pinging, the causes and how to fix the causes.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Trouble/ping.htm

I just got delivery of my AEM CAI and P2R spacer. This should help the problem, probably wont eliminate the pinging in my engine but will lower it.


It might just be like it was said in the write up a machining problem with the cam shafts causing the timing to be off and pressure to build up above the required ratio. The machining problem would explain why no one with an 08 TL-S has surfaced with this problem yet.

Anyways my driving pratices as of late have not produced much pinging at all.

usequal

how depressing.

evanj5

p2r and aem installed yesterday. I will keep you guys posted on what this does to my pinging. the new power and throttle response is amazing

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

Just found this thread....yikes...scary. I'm picking up my '08 TL-S on Friday....any '08s with this issue?

joelsaxton

No 08's to my knowledge..

Too bad they won't fix the 07's.

evanj5

update after installing CAI and P2R.

Yesterday on my drives I did not ping at all. Today on my way to work I did everything in my power to cause I ping and was only able to produce a very slight ping. So this deffinately helps and under normal driving I dont expect to hear anymore pinging. If was only when I continuosly punched third gear from 3k to 5k rpm over and over that I ping eventually showed up. And before the pinging was something that you would hear immediately after hitting the throttle hard that doesnt happen anymore and the serverity of the pinging it less (not as loud). Now I have a new sound I am noticing that I need to figure out wtf it is. Most likely a heat shield vibration. I get it when I am really hard on the throttle and around 4.5k to 5.5k rpm.

I post more updates.

Bearcat94

Maybe a rattle from the CAI vibrating? Some have noted a whine/whistle from the spare port on the TB Spacer.

usequal

very cold day here in dc today....no pinging...does this rule out a machining problem?

evanj5

i dont think anything can rule out machining unless the rods are taken out and tested.

Tech7427

dont worry im still around..lol

its what happens when you buy this thing called a puppy..8week old siberian husky.

my free time has went out the door, between the girl and the puppy and projects on the house, such as paiting, havent had much time to get anywhere lately..

you can reset the ecm by using the hds and resetting it and idle relearn and crankshaft pattern clear..

you can pull the ecm fuses/pgm and backup fuses clears memory as well..

also you can disconnect the battery and hold the + and - cables together for a few seconds and this erases all memory.

as far as drawing power, yes the ecm draws all the time.. sure it goes to sleep, but only such things like, lamens terms, keep alive memory.. avg draw is 35mA.. thats .035 A.

evanj5

anyone with this problem get AEM CAI/P2R, havent heard a ping all week.

deepvee

Have had several posts on this topic. Latest was the dealer replaced the EGR valve. No significant improvement, still had pinging.
Last month our long time independent Acura shop recommended we switch to "Chevron" premium gas, noting that the tailpipes were heavily carboned. He felt confident that it would reduced the pinging. It's been about four tanks full and the pinging seems to have dissapeared. I will report back and let you all know if it stays dissapeared!

evanj5

I'm gonna try that as well

I hate cars

Hope it works for you. I usually use Chevron and still have the problem. It actually ran better with less pinging when the girlfriend put 89 in it from Fastrip.

dingdongman

Even the mention that I might have to now use a specific gas station, on top of having to use a specific type of gas, is unacceptable to me.

If you guys are going to let a car company tell you where to get your gas, you really are kidding yourselves as to who is the consumer and who depends on who for a viable future. If acura cannot make a vehicle which can accept the minor variations in today's premium fuels, from station to station, then they need to fire all their engineers and hire engineers from some of the other auto makers who seems to not be so finicky about what brand of fuel I use to fill the tank.

I will not use a specific company for my fuel, as I use whatever store is closest to me when I hit empty. I rarely use the same station and always use premium fuel.

Acura Client Services called me today and asked when I would be available for my car to be looked at again regarding this problem. It will be in the next few days and I will keep you posted as they make another attempt at this pinging issue.

What dealer told you to use that specific fuel as a solution to the problem?

mickey3c

So that acura dealership believes that Chevron is the only company that does not cheat the consumer when they purchase premium gas.. LOL. It's another way for them to delay accepting any responsibility in this until acura can come up with a subtle fix of sorts to make it slightly better. As for revving in park, well that head mechanic is a moron since the engine should be under load.

It's smacks of the tranny issue as well, first replace and then later retune and add oil jets. It took 3-4 years to make subtle changes to the product before they might have fixed the problem. In the mean time, you drive around a 40K car that runs poorly.

evanj5

either get rid of the car, use an octane booster, or get a CAI other wise your wasting your time until Acura does something or maybe hondata makes a reflash.

2007TL-S

I wouldn't mind using Chevron (if it actually worked) but the funny thing is the only Chevron station in town is like 15 miles away and I never see them in SC/NC along the interstate. I use BP (Amoco) 93 octance. Have for years with all my cars. It is considered a top-tier fuel just like Chevron, or Shell (which I tried), Texaco, etc. It is a bullshit answer.

I may try a CAI if it does improve the situation. I can't drive my car without listening for the ping and everytime I hear it it makes me like the car less and less.

junktionfet

I've done this experiment and my car seems brand-agnostic when it comes to gasoline. I've tried all of these brands at one time or another, and my results are completely unpredictable:

Sheetz
BP
Union 76
Kangaroo
Shell
Exxon
Citgo
Hess
Circle K

I would try Texaco but there are none around here that I know of. I haven't tried gas from Costco, BJs, or Walmart... and not sure I want to

evanj5

Umm yeah get CAI, and enjoy no pinging, I have p2r has well which may help.
I may have heard a ping or two all week and that was only under 100% throttle.
I am getting a vibration like a heat shield is loose that will probably go away in time.
before the CAI I would hear pinging everytime I drove in third gear under 50% throttle I NEVER get that now. I still think I need to do a pcm reset after reading the techs post I don't think I did it right.

i would love to see some results of another person that puts CAI on

nextech

It's funny that different gas is being mentioned on the last page because I'm trying this myself.

I use to get gas from a Shell gas station near my place because they offer premium(93) for the same price as the plus(89) on Wednesdays. I thought I was saving a couple of bucks. Recently, I switched to Mobile premium near where I work, and I don't hear the pinining any more. Sometimes I think I hear pining, and I open my windows to check if I'm imagining things. I going to continue to use Mobile for a while, and listen for the pininging. I'm hoping that this would be the answer for my problem. I know that it's absurd that you have to use a specific gas company, but I'll be happy if this works for me. Another theory I had was that the local Shell gas station is cheating the customers?

I'll post an update if this doesn't work out. GL to everyone else that's having this problem.

dingdongman

please post the name of the dealership which mentioned that companies are using all the same gas in their tanks.

I would urge every one of you to simply call Acura Client Services and file a report of this problem. You will be provided a casenumber and this can assist in finding a solution.

joelsaxton

I agree. Everybody please call them and report the ping problem. I just got my TLS back from the dealer. This will be the 4th or 5th time I've brought it in to complain about pinging. The dealer told me that corporate doesn't have any known systemic pinging issue on file, which implies they are lying and/or there have not been enough customer complaints.

usequal

I just called and reported my problem. I think this is all we can do at this point.

1-800-382-2238

Jey77

Hey fellas, I decided to join this forum because of Spark Knocking. I hope we can work together to try to have this resolved. Alright first and foremost, I do not own a TL or a TL-S. I own a 2006 Acura Rsx Type-S and guess what? I have spark knocking, pinging, preignition what ever you guys wanna call it. It currently has 17,000 miles on it and has been going to and from two different Acura Dealerships for the past 6 months to try to have have this problem resolved. I have thrown never thrown a CEL or had any modifications done to the vehicle. She has been stock from day one with 93 octane from day one. The occurrence of the knock is light throttle too mid between the 2-3k rpm ranges. I'm fairly certain it's knocking in the higher rpm range but I just can't hear it due to the Rsx's loud cabin. Now that we have the small details outta the way.....

For the last 6 months, I have been getting the run around from 2 different dealerships. One dealership's service manager confirmed it is spark knock and that it is a sign of "good fuel economy". Another dealership told me i'm not getting spark knock but rather thinks it was something else. Well, the second dealership found a TSB for rattling of the intermediate half shaft heatshield. They replaced it under warranty. Guess what? Knocking was still there after they replaced it. Just to prove to the dealership even further that it was knock, I took the heatshield off and drove the vehicle where I then reproduced it. Second dealership told me nothing can be done and if it IS spark knock, I need to go back to the first dealership where they originally diagnosed it as spark knock and tell them it is not normal. First dealership decided to be a bit more friendly since they hired a new service manager. Shop foreman calls Acura Techline where they proceeded to perform a Valve Lash Adjustment. I said ok and after a week, I got my vehicle back. Guess what? Spark knock persists. After more arguments, Acura Techline suggested to have the knock sensor replaced. Got the car back couple days ago. Guess what? Knocking still persists.

Now I don't know what the hell is going on with Acura corporate but them telling you guys that it is not a known problem is nothing but lies. That is exactly what they told me. I plan on printing out this entire thread and throwing it in their face to let them know that spark knock in various Acura vehicles IS present and have been reported by almost everyone on this thread. I've done my share of intensive research on what spark knock is and everything points to it NOT being good for any engine as it will drastically shorten engine life. Our rods and bearings are taking a beating every time we hear a ping/knock. I'm now at the point where the dealership is saying "There is nothing else we can do for you" This was what I kept getting today and needless to say, I was very upset. I have an appointment scheduled for Monday afternoon to go for another ride along with a manager. He believes that the spark knock is being produced because I keep bogging down the engine. Now by definition, bogging down the engine is where i'm shifting at rpms so low, it causes the engine to vibrate massively and then stall out. In your honest opinion fellas, If i'm shifting at every 3500 rpms and engaging the next gear at 2500-2700, is that bogging the engine down?It's absolute bullshit. He has promised me that if he can hear the knock and it is consistent, they will take the car from me and start troubleshooting for a solution. Anyone in the Duluth, Georgia area or near it? I would absolutely love to meet up with you in hopes of getting some results for not just us but for all of us. Thanks and hope to hear from you guys soon.

- Sorry for the long post but i'm sure it'll be informative to all of you who are having this battle with Acura.

shivers

is there anyone out there with an '08 TL-S that's having the knock issue?

all of you guys with '07s should try to determine the build date on your cars. that may help narrow down a window to see if there were any manufacturing problems, bad parts, or a bad material lot. it might help Acura narrow down the production time frame as well if all of the cars came out around the same time.

just an idea. hope you guys get some resolution at some point.

I hate cars

That upsets me just to read it. A couple things really stand out.

How can they not determine if it's spark knock? I went in to my old work and borrowed the scanner and saw 13+ degrees of knock retard. Took me all of 30 seconds to confirm the problem I already knew existed.

Spark knock a sign of good fuel economy? That's a good one. Getting on the verge of knock is good. Crossing that line is bad.

These people are either very uneducated as to how a car works or they're liars or both. It was a real wake up call when I took an "advanced computer controls" course in college and aced it being self taught while most of the career dealership guys in the class struggled for a passing grade. Not saying this about all dealership mechanics and especially not about TECH7427 who seems to have much more knowlege than your typical tech.

Jey77

I had my vehicle hooked up to an OBD2 scanner only to see an average of 7 degrees of knock retard. The highest I got was 15 degrees. I was told by the service rep that it was normal operation that the knock was being retarded like that. Question, when the obd2 scanner was hooked up, am I supposed to have any readings at all with knock retarding?

Jey77

I had my vehicle hooked up to an OBD2 scanner only to see an average of 7 degrees of knock retard. The highest I got was 15 degrees. I was told by the service rep that it was normal operation that the knock was being retarded like that. Question, when the obd2 scanner was hooked up, am I supposed to have any readings at all with knock retarding? Mondays coming up soon and i wanna go in there with as much knowledge as possible.

I hate cars

7 degrees is bad. 15 is very bad. You should see no retard during normal driving and MAYBE an occasional degree or two at most at WOT. The knock sensor is there for when things go wrong like when the owner puts 87 octane in the tank or the engine overheats. It's not supposed to be used as part of the tuning.

Jey77

ok this adds to my arsenal of defense. So when the knock readings on the obd2 scanner is showing any knock retard on normal driving, it means I have spark knock. Another question, so if my knock readings are going all the way to 15 degrees, why am I not throwing a check engine light? This is something the dealership continuously tells me. They tell me since i'm not throwing a CEL it means everything is under normal operation.