dingdongman

Hmmm.... now who all of you feels like a bum after all the big tech talk of supporting the spark knock nomenclature over calling it a valve tick. Maybe some of you dont know as much as you think you do.

Please list the name of your dealership and if they acknowledge that there is a sound coming from the engine which appears to be valve tick or spark knock related.

ACURA OF ORANGE PARK denies hearing anything on several occasions as well as claims to have never heard anyone mention the issue other than myself.

DAVIS ACURA also claims to have never heard of the problem we are discussing here.

They type of statements are deeply troubling and frustrating as a consumer. Companies should be very careful when making these type of statements at this particular point in today's economy. I would have to guess that less and less people are buying cars each day recently so if acura starts isolating its life long buyers that would certainly be a bad choice in the long run for sales in my opinion.

Here's hoping this is resolved soon because i will not accept denial as a solution and will find another brand to purchase in the future for my family if they keep playing deaf on this matter.

Bearcat94

No, no, no. This maint item was in the 2nd Gen manual as well. This is NOT specific our cars (3rd Gen TL-S). I doubt it is related at all to the problem we're having.

Bearcat94

Hendrick Acura, Charlotte. Test drive with Repair Tech. He picked out the noise just as I was about to point it out during a test drive. He said, "That's spark knock." He blamed it on generally low quality gas, regardless of Octane rating. And that's what is listed on my service record.

In my mind, "blame the gasoline" is another form of denial. However, if you think BMW, MB, Infinity, Caddilac, or KIA for that matter work any differently, you're delusional. Typcial Corporate response: Deny the problem exists. If proven to exist: Deny responsibility.

dingdongman

Thanks for the dealer name and notes!

We need a complete list of dealers and diagnoses please asap from board users/responders. This info will allow us to use the info in synergy when responding to denial of symptoms.

juruki

iTrader: (2)

we should show this thread to acura...

joelsaxton

I went to SANTA MONICA ACURA - the first visit, they said the knock had to do with the exhaust system. It didn't solve the problem. The second time I could not replicate the problem, but they said that there are different grades of 91 gas.. As an aside, they also told me the TL-S has a completely different engine than the RL..

I also called acura corporate and they denied the problem existed. I called them again to report the problem again, left a msg asking to speak to them - and they never called back.

I hate cars

I'm 1000% sure that it's spark knock. Valve tick is not octane dependant, load dependant, or weather dependant. It is only sensitive to engine temp, adjustment, and sometimes rpm. It's very clear cut.

I'm personally sick of having to put a few gallons of 100 octane in mine. Although I don't have an audible knock, the car surges and has no power on straight 91. I get better mileage on the freeway by a few mpg with a little 100 which tells me that there's some knock retard even on steady state freeway runs.

With the way things are going, I'm about the gut the cats and run it on 100LL from the airport which is much cheaper than 100 unleaded.

joelsaxton

where do you get your 100? I can only get 91 here in LA.

dingdongman

I hate cars...can you provide dealer name and if they ack problem exists please. All this talk is getting us nowhere fast with AH.

I will sandwich myself inside the hood holding a high resolution microphone w/ my wife driving if I have to...to prove this noise is not a figment of our imagination.

In the interim...PLEASE LIST DEALER NAME AND PROBLEM DESCRIP.

Back to sleep...

usequal

the problem is that its not throwing a code....noises are subjective....that being said, my car sounds like a piece of crap....like an old beat up hyundai with 150k miles that was sold at an auction

Bearcat94

It might not throw a code, but according to earlier posts, you can hook into the OBD (??) and watch the timing retard as the knock is occuring.

joerockt

Soooo, then why is it there?

FRST4DR

Ok I went through this post and the poll awhile back and compiled the list of everyone that has this pinging problem. I am so tired of hearing this noise and now if I have my window barely down and step on the gas I get an overwhelming smell inside the car of what smells like a rotten egg and stays that way for at least a min.

Here is the list:
1. bionicjoggingsuit
2. MD_2007_TLS
3. juruki
4. cbronze07
5. Handruin
6. joelsaxton
7. tapacboy1 ?
8. rventu
9. xtralight
10. clttr2002
11. dingdongman
12. aznjeep
13. gulu100
14. junktionfet
15. Bcc335
16. jayOk
17. 2007TL-S
18. S power
19. Bearcat94
20. <<se7en>>
21. taeleebr
22. Aristo82
23. evanj5
24. christian256
25. usequal
26. deepvee
27. Pizza4Everyone
28. Scott P.
29. Tumbler
30. 177ichael
31. Ahmad310
32. ankur914
33. Chriscapo
34. DavidH1
35. Hexkraut
36. Jsl138
37. jtconte
38. kobi2002
39. mantrika
40. MiaQbn23
41. phatblkride97
42. SBTL
43. tupacboy1
44. viperbsd
45. cincinnatikid
46. DAC17
47. kantonm
48. mio
49. snavarrette
50. Sprtan-117
51. FRST4DR

FRST4DR

This is what my tail pipes looked like today. They were clean and here they are after 150 miles later. I should not see this on a car that only has 4300 miles on it. Also I baby this car and never drive it hard.

juruki

iTrader: (2)

^^ I get that black stuff on my tips too!!! what is it? I always like to keep my tips looking clean and i get that black thing after long drives.
What number do i call to complain to Acura? Im gonna start bothering them...

Bearcat94

^^ Pretty sure that's "normal" across various years and models.

joelsaxton

Good work, FRST4DR. It would be great if we could get a cyber-petition with name and info from all of the people on this list so we can send it to Acura.

junktionfet

I know Honda is capable of tuning an engine so it never pings. My VFR 800 has extraordinary bhp/liter, 11.6:1 compression, and the owner's manual says it needs "86 Octane or higher". Sure enough, I run 87 octane in it and the engine does nothing but scream. In a good way.

So how about it Honda, show some love to my TL and make it run like it's supposed to.

I've been reduced to inspirational anecdotes and pleading. :P

dingdongman

Funny enough now ACURA OF ORANGE PARK calls me yesterday and CONFIRMED hearing a noise as I described to them. They tell me they can hear it 100% of the time easily after hearing it once and knowing what to listen for. This is GREAT NEWS for everyone.

Acura engineering was contacted by ACURA OF ORANGE PARK. They were told to begin by placing a knock sensor in the engine. I don't know if this means they are replacing the knock sensor with a new one or if they are placing an additional sensor for Diag. Purposes. I will find out more info today and post it.

Could we try and compile the list of problem member names as well as their cooresponding dealer names so that acura can more easily communicate the solution, once found, out to the dealers who will require the needed information initially.

dingdongman

the ROTTEN EGG smell is most likely the catalytic converter causing the smell. This is a common problem on holder hondas. Personally never had much issue with ULEV type systems. Often the car driving in front of you causes more of the problem than the vehicle being driven during the time when the smell can be noticed.

These converters are one of the primary reasons Palladium and Platinum have been great investments over the past 5 years or so. These metals might see a slight pullback as fuel reaches critical highs in combination with enonomy slowdowns. China's appetite for automobiles very well could sustain these metals sucess for many years to come as long as vehicles are dependent on fuel for locomotion and there is a demand to scrub the emmissions of those fuel based vehicles.

dingdongman

ACURA OF ORANGE PARK replaced the knock sensor and wire leading to the sensor. Acura engineering tells them that this should resolve the problem. The repair should be complete later today or tomorrow at the latest. As soon as I confirm any change in state of the noise I will post the info immediately for review.

Could this have been so easy to resolve all this time?? I am very eager to take a drive and see the results of the KNOCK SENSOR replacement.

Here's to a smooth running TL-S motor!!!

usequal

dingdongman...thanks for these great updates......im feeling good about this one

cheers

junktionfet

Sadly, my car recently received the knock sensor replacement "first step", and it made no difference. If anything I've noticed the car pinging even more violently. I know that is unlikely, but it certainly made no improvement.

You know, I wonder if this is a problem with the knock sensor torque? It is absolutely critical. Perhaps from the factory the sensors were torqued improperly and now at the dealership the techs are just cranking them down without doing it precisely.

A friend of mine had a VW Corrado G60 that had a horrific pinging problem under boost. No error codes or warning lights were present. I removed the sensor, cleaned and lightly oiled the threads on the bolt, and carefully reinstalled it, torquing to factory spec. The pinging literally disappeared.

FRST4DR

Yeah normally I smell this from the car in front of me if they take off hard. Never have I smelled it from my own car. It's got to be tied in with the pinging. Since the car is not running right it's not burning clean.

FRST4DR

Yeah Im pretty sure bionicjoggingsuit had his knock sensor replaced first to.

All I can hope is that this hopefully gets the ball rolling on this problem. When I took my car to the dealer over a month ago I was told they knew about the pinging and contributed it to gas not being as good as it used to be.

dingdongman

this am I was told the car is ready to be picked up.

ACURA OF ORANGE PARK replaced the knock sensor, the associated wire for the sensor and RESET THE ECU(which basically learns how each of us drive these cars and adjusts things such as shift points accordingly).

A close contact at the dealership who could easily hear the problem 100% of the time now tells me there is no knocking or pinging during driving. I will go and pick it up and report results asap.

ACURA ENGINEERING was involved closely on this repair and I would like to give them a shout out for the effort.

junktionfet

While I certainly hope your experience is different from mine, I was told the exact same thing after my knock sensor was replaced--that the senior tech verified the car no longer pings/knocks.

As soon as I got out on the road leaving the dealership, I verified the pinging had not changed. I informed the dealer and they actually seemed unsurprised by this and they were quite supportive, citing that Acura wanted them to perform this repair first.

FRST4DR

Well when you've had time to drive it let us know the results.

dingdongman

Junk,
what dealer? Next time I come to NC I won't visit that dealer. I remember being so mad at Hendrick dodge that I was about to bust a vein. I think it took them 2 years to produce the proper sales documents for several vans I purchased one day for our work in RTP. Was still doing GPS Systems Engineering at that time in RTP. My first child was born in Apex...we lived off Robert's Road. Fond memories!

I have no time for dealers who lie to customers. I'll give them a few chances then I take by business elsewhere quickly.

This really doesnt matter because if this can't be fixed I'm on to a better car right away. Audi R8 looks like it will do for a couple of years until the new acura is out. Maybe a blower on that car might make me stop searching for the perfect ride.

I'll post tomorrow after I pick up the car. I also will report again after I put in fuel at a random location as I always do to eliminate possible patterns in fuel quality. If fuel is constantly varied in source and problem exists then it reduces the possibility it is fuel related issue.

Tired...

I hate cars

Again, the knock sensor retards timing to protect the motor AFTER it starts pinging. This does nothing whatsoever to prevent the knock in the first place. WTF is wrong with Acura? This is basic knowlege and I'm sure the people who recommended this "fix" are smarter than me. So it comes down to they just don't care and want to try anything and everything they can to cover up the problem.

Maybe we can all torque our knock sensors so tight that even the valvetrain noise sets it off. That's probably what they were hoping would happen with the installation of the new sensor.

On the subject of the rotten egg smell from the exhaust..... This is related to the pinging and it conferms even more that it's true knock. When the pinging occurs, cylinder pressures skyrocket causing more NOx. The extra NOx has a sulfer rotten egg smell in a car with a convertor. More proof as far as I'm concerned.

I hate cars

Add my '06 POS to the pinging list.

91 octane or greater always.

I had the window down next to a cinderblock wall listening to tire noise when I heard pinging. Let's see if this matches anyone else's description...

It mostly happens at throttle tip-in. Cruising at low rpm with just enough gas to maintain speed and then accelerating but not enough to make it downshift. It only happens as I'm hitting the gas and won't do it continuously.

Also happens off of a dead stop and is mostly dependant on how quickly I hit the gas. If I ease into it, it doesn't happen. If I go quickly from idle to 1/3 pedal it does it. If I floor it, it doesn't happen or at least I can't hear it over all of the other sounds.

If I put it in manual mode with too high of a gear selected and floor it, it pings. I know normally you would never be WOT at 2,500rpm, but the car still shouldn't ping.

Spinning it in the upper rpm ranges at various throttle openings had no pinging. To me, this eliminates fuel pump or injectors as the problem.

Test drove the new 335 and it's looking mighty appealing. Somehow the Bimmer can run high compression AND boost without pinging. Maybe Acura should take notes.

FRST4DR

I know with 51 people having this problem that is close to 2 million in sales of people that could be turned away from Acura for good. Plus all the people that were thinking of buying a TLS and were turned away when seeing this thread. You would think Acura would want to fix the issue.

evanj5

If this problem is not fixed within a year I will start looking else where. I love acura this is my third one and I have only driven 4 cars in my life.

My RSX-S never made this sound and I pushed it much harder. I believe the compresion is very similar.

junktionfet

My former '06 TSX would ping from time to time... But it would do it a couple times then stop for the remainder of my trip. At the time I thought that it was an unacceptable amount. Heh... how foolish of me to set my standards so high

donc

Add my '06 POS to the pinging list.

Why are you still driving your 06 if you don't like it?

I hate cars

It's in the process of getting traded for a 335. Running it on 100 octane is starting to get expensive.

I hate cars

Just dumped two gallons of xylene in 1/2 tank of gas and the car is pleasant to drive again. Low rpm power is back and I could not duplicate the pinging. No more surging and feeling like a cheap POS. I wish Honda would've put a 97 minimum octane warning on the car.

joelsaxton

Too bad you can't charge Honda for the extra 6 octane..

I hate cars

That would be nice. I got the xylene cheap, but it was still an extra $22 per half tank of gas.

I encourage anyone who has the pinging problem to boost the octane by a few numbers, not points, and you will see what the car should run like.

Tech7427

some news about your smell..

Are customers complaining of a rotten egg smell,
but you can’t find anything wrong with their
vehicles to account for it: There are no DTCs set,
no driveability problems reported, and nothing
damaged or broken? Then it could well be coming
from the catalytic converter. That smell is a release
of built-up hydrogen sulfide (H2S) from the
reaction of the organic sulfur compounds in the
gasoline with the catalyst in the converter.
Almost all gasoline contains some amount of
organic sulfur compounds, and that amount varies
by region. The more sulfur there is in the gasoline,
the more H2S is built up and released by the
catalytic converter, so the stronger the smell.
In California, where low-sulfur gasoline is actually
required by state law, sulfur smell complaints are
few and far between. Low-sulfur gasoline will be
phased in nationwide between 2004 and 2006.
This low-sulfur gasoline should go a long way
toward making complaints about a rotten egg
smell a thing of the past.