evanj5

I am starting to think that this problem is due to something with the injectors.

If octane booster is fixing it and after I drive hard WOT for an extended period of time is making the pinging go away then maybe there is just something wrong with the injectors.

Does anyone know much about the injectors on the TL-S's

evanj5

Before going to work today I filled up with shell 93 octane and threw in a bottle of STP Octane Booster. Crossing my fingers the chatters go away. Between the gas station and work about 4 miles I was still able to produce slight pinging I may have noticed a decrease in the amount of pinging there was but I will have to drive a couple days take her on the highway open her up for a bit and Ill let you know the results. If this works I going to soon be buying a case of the octance booster for every fill up

evanj5

i read that if you put a 60:1 mixture of stp octane booster and 93 octane gas it will raise the octane 2 to 3 points. So I went back to the store and put another bottle in. Two 12 oz. bottles and 13 gallons of gas is about 60:1 mixture. 20 miles later I am still hearing the pinging. I guess I need to buy race gas one a see if that takes it away. But I have a feeling it wont.


I am going to be ignoring the fact that this porblem exists, thinking about it too much is getting me very annoyed.


AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Ok release of pressure build up in my brain complete.

I hate cars

You're better off buying a gallon of Xylene from Home Depot. It's the main ingredient in most octane boosters anyway. Boosters only raise the octane a few points as in 87 to 87.3. A gallon of Xylene to 10 gallons of 91 will boost the octane by about 3 whole numbers. Don't go higher than a 30% mixture.

christian256

I'm still using up the tank of gas that stopped the pinging, but when it runs out I'll just fill up with regular 93 octane again and see if the pinging returns. It probably won't take long, because I've gotten a bit rev-happy with the (once again) lovely engine growl...

I admit that when I got the octane booster, I also filled up at a different gas station (Texaco) than I usually do since I figured they'd have a better selection of octane booster than, say, 7-11. Perhaps they had better gas as well? I'm not usually picky about my gas, as long as it's 93, so that may have been a factor as well.

xtralight

It says in the car manual that octane booster with MMT should not to be used with the TL-S.

Beside, why should I pay 93 octane gas or octane booster when my car is supposed to be designed with 91 octane gas?

usequal

I'm pretty sure my 07 TL has this same issue. I don't have the 'S' model but after reading all these posts, im almost certain it is the same noise.

any other Non S owners have this problem?

I hate cars

You shouldn't have to. But if you plan on keeping the car for a long time, it would be a good idea to add octane until they fix the problem. If they fix the problem. I'm clueless as to why Honda is not trying harder to fix the problem when it could potentially cost them so much money in engine replacements.

I hate cars

Same reason I've been following this thread. My 06 has/had the surging and I could swear I've heard the ping once or twice when the surging was at it's worst. Never could get it to do it a second time. The surging goes away with 100 octane so that leads me to believe it's timing being retarded. I'm going to hook a scanner to it next week to find out for sure. 100 octane should make no difference if it's running right but instead it makes a huge difference both in drivability and WOT power. Hell, I pulled an EVO from 55-120mph in an auto TL. That shouldn't happen.


I would like to see how many are autos vs manuals with the pinging problem. The timing maps are probably slightly different between the two.

Bearcat94

I don't have a lot of faith in Octane boosters. I just don't see how they can raise the Octane rating enough to make any real difference.

I would, respectfully, suggest that what you are experiencing is the effect of cooler air temps. The noise I have been hearing seems reduced (and over a few days, eliminated), but I haven't changed anything - same gas station, same driving style, etc. However, the weather is noticably cooler.

If the IAT sensor reads cooler air, will that effect the air/fuel mixture or the ignition timing? Could cooler air result in reduced pre-detonation and/or pinging?

I hate cars

Just a guess but I would think if the IAT sensor sees cooler temps, more timing and more fuel. I've never seen the Honda strategy but every other car I've seen does it that way.

Bearcat94

I don't know enough to know what's what, so I am just "supposing" here.

If we assume that cooler temps get more fuel and more timing, would that be likely to reduce an existing pinging condition?

I hate cars

More fuel will help stop detonation. More timing makes it more likely. Honda might not add more timing with cooler IATs but more fuel is a safe bet. My surging went away almost completely by moving the sensor behind the bumper so it didn't heatsoak from the hot intake manifold.

christian256

I totally agree with you - I never figured one bottle of octane booster would make any difference, but figured I'd try anyway. And once I did, no more pinging.

That said, you're also right about the cooler air temps. I travel a lot for work (by plane, not in my car), so there can be significant temperature differences between drives in my car. It's in the mid-forties right now, so that, as well as the Texaco gas, may also (or completely) have been why my car stopped pinging. All I know right now is that:

- Warm ambient temps, potentially lousy gas, and no octane booster - loud pinging.
- Cooler ambient temps, Texaco 93 octane case, plus octane booster - no pinging.

When I'm empty, I'll fill up with the closest gas station's (7-11) 93 octane gas, which is probably the most common for me (being the lazy cur that I am), and NOT put in octane booster. That will eliminate two of the possible fixes (octane booster and Texaco gas) and I'll see what kind of noise it makes.

Actually, come to think of it, the forecast is calling for mid-seventies this weekend, so perhaps that plan is shot.

Well, I know I had pinging a week ago, and now I don't. The three "ingredients" listed above are the only differences I can come up with, so at some point, I will have (or hope to have) come up with which one makes the most dramatic difference in the sound of my engine...

I hope...

joelsaxton

Maybe it's cheaper for them to fix a few engines than issue a TSB?

FRST4DR

I tried Lucas Octane Booster two months ago, and it decrease the noise some what. I still notice the car running better without octane booster now that it's been in the low 30's in the mornings. Still pings though.

evanj5

The pinging on my car is so noticable now that I need to take my car into the dealership before my first oil change. Only 2k miles on my car. Oh and the center dash speaker rattle is driving me nuts, I cant wait any longer

junktionfet

Hello All, I've been away from this thread for some time. My car still exhibits the pinging, but I have been told by the dealer that a fix is still in development and on its way soon. I hope it comes sooner rather than later.

usequal

took my car in and they blamed it on a loose heat shield.....i told them i didn't think this was the issue but they insisted it was....needless to say, on the way home i could still hear the pinging. so its clear to me this is a problem we are going to have to figure out on our own. what is the fix? how can we tweak the air/fuel mixture?

evanj5

pray for hondata

junktionfet

The first repair on mine was a heatshield as well which they said was cracked. Odd for a car that had only 1500 miles on it, but whatever.

Bearcat94

A rattling heatsheild is sometimes mistaken for pinging. And apparently, the TL's are known to have cracked/rattling heat sheilds from time to time (IIRC, there is a TSB or Tech Line Article on Rattling Heat Shields).

Doesn't hurt to check it as part of the trouble-shooting process. But once that's ruled out, there's no avoiding pinging. Then it becomes a question of "Why does it ping?"

That's where most of use are at. We know it pings; we know we're using the proper fuel; we don't know if or when Acura will provide an accurate diagnosis of the true cause or initiate a solution.

2007TL-S

Have you also noticed that your TL-S runs extremely rich? I am not sure if it is related to the pinging issue or not but my car has a thick layer of soot in my exhaust pipes. It even has a film of soot around the rear valance like an old diesel Mercedes. When I hit the gas on the interstate or something to pass a cloud of black dust shoots out of the back. This can't be normal either. I just wonder if it is related and/or if it is just me or if everyone has this issue too?

BTW - I too have noticed the pinging has all but vanished with cooler temperatures.

I hate cars

Usually running rich is considered safe. Running very rich, contrary to popular belief can cause detonation. Usually if you're that rich, you're noticing the cloud of black smoke behind the car.

In my short experience with the TL, they usually tend to run on the lean side at WOT. I know mine did on the dyno with the wide band. The soot and the cloud of black smoke is not normal. It will kill your catalytic convertors, wash down the cylinders, and dilute the oil. I would get it fixed asap. Is the power still there or is it low?

MZ9.5

I was planning to update my Acura with an '07 or an '08 model (depending on the type of deal I could get from my dealer), but after reading all the posts on this thread (mostly informative by the way) I think I will be holding off on the purchase. It is very disappointing to see how much Acura's customer service has deteriorated if the posts here are indicative of its quality.
I really liked the car when I test drove it and it's eye-catching to be sure, but with what I've read I don't think I would want to buy into what could develop into a serious engine problem in the future (I might have to check out Lexus again).
I will be monitoring this thread to see how things turn out. I wonder if Acura/Honda realizes how many potential customers they could be losing by their lack of action or even acknowledgement of the problem.
Thanks to all who have shared their "pinging" issues and I hope you get a satisfactory resolution to the problem.

joelsaxton

Mine's still pinging away. I opened up the throttle today and was reminded of it yet again. Seems like this preignition must have done some damage to my engine already, but I'm no expert. Bionicjoggingsuit had his problem fixed by what we believe was an updated timing map, but since the car has been repaired, he has disappeared from this site - so no updates.

junktionfet

At this point I've sort of thrown in the towel. I want to get the pinging fixed as soon as possible, but in the meantime I'm driving the car with no regard to the pinging. I bought a $40,000 car and I'm tired of walking on eggshells around it. If it damages the engine, so be it. I don't intend to keep the car beyond it's warranty period anyway. I only hope that the next owner experiences a failure within the warranty period so that they don't have to pay for Honda's error.

Speaking of smoke, I've noticed that mine will puff some black smoke when it pings heavily. If the pinging is light or not audible, there is no smoke. I believe the smoke is the result of incomplete combustion, caused by the pinging. When I see the black smoke and come to a stop, the tailwind that passes the car has a nice unhealthy catalyzed smell to it. Yum!

Honda seems to be a very proud company and one that is extremely concerned about their reputation. My ULEV Acura TL probably spews more pollution than a 1995 Ford Truck when it's pinging, not the mention the fact that it's setting up a failure mode in the engine. Given this kind of pressure, I don't see how it can take this long to come up with an update for what seems to be a subset of relatively rare cars.

joelsaxton

Maybe it's BECAUSE it's a subset of relatively rare cars that Honda doesn't give a shit? I can't come up with another explanation for how this could possibly take so long.

harddrivin1le

I still think that it's a manufacturing/machining problem (e.g. heads milled below minimum spec) that's responsible for this and that the resulting cylinder pressure produces more knock/pinging than the PCM can cope with.

2007TL-S

So I am the only one that is experiencing the apparent rich condition?

Also it seems to be the two issues would be related. I am going to take my car in to the dealership in a week or so to see what they say. I am sure I will get the same response others have but if I get some promising news I will let you know.

I am really concerned at this point about keeping this car long-term.

juruki

iTrader: (2)

Who do we contact to complain? It is obvious that we are all experiencing the same symptoms. Everytime I take it to the dealer they say they cant reproduce the noise. Im sick and tired of this shit.

This is my second try at Acura. My first experience was really bad and scary. I had defective tranny on my 2nd GEN CL-S that downshifted to 2nd gear on the freeway going 75mph. The car stopped so hard that i broke 2 engine mounts and the SUV behind me barely avoided me. Took it to the dealer and got a used and refurbished tranny that started slippin after 10k miles. Needless to say, i had to get rid of the CL-S. The car just didnt feel safe anymore, I was scared to go on long drives with it... So pissed at Acura

joelsaxton

that is scary.

I contacted Acura Corporate (I live in CA, too):

800 382-2238 x115239

Call in and tell them your TL-S is pinging/knocking and you want to know if/when they're going to issue a TSB.

joelsaxton

Is your engine still behaving? Or have you heard any bad sounds?

If it is poor machining, perhaps that would explain why it is taking them longer than an ECU fix.

usequal

could we get a count of the Non S owners who are experiencing this problem (pinging)?

dingdongman

this is the second time my dealer has said they can't hear the noises. Can't wait to get back from holiday and show them the noise on a test drive. I will not be picking up this car until I get this problem addressed. They can keep it and let American honda know where to send the payment stubs.

dingdongman

better yet I would like to see every tech fired who can't hear properly and as a result costs Honda money by having to readdress problems which they could not find with their ears the first time.

Maybe some white vinyl stickers on the car's body which warn others not to buy an acura tl would be more appropriate though. A couple of months driving around jacksonville should alert several thousand people to the truth if this motor.

Too bad 15 year old NSX motors sound leaps and bounds better than these cars. 15 years of wasted R&d.

harddrivin1le

Mine doesn't have the problem (yet). I'm basing my opinion only on what I've read on here. I've been running Shell 93 octane in it since the first fill-up.

I had problem with front brake "groan;" the dealer replaced the pads, resurfaced the rotors and the problem was resolved.

I like this car overall, though I'd be BULLSH*T if mine were pinging.

I hate cars

I wouldn't go quite that far. The motors seem to be solid, they're holding up ok even with the detonation problems. It's the engine management that's messing things up. It does make you wonder though, if it is just engine management, why hasn't the problem been resolved yet.

joelsaxton

That is what I'm worried about..

I notice that colder weather helps suppress the intermittent knock in my engine.

joerockt

Has anyone noticed this on their Acura Owner Link website under the Maintenance Minder?

Seems like Acura is well aware of the problem...