Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
05-13-2009 | 04:54 PM
#441
Suzuka Master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,259
Likes: 1,239
Rick-
I am the guy that got the Type-S car running....Sean too
Anyways. I never would have had the balls to do it, if someone had not said "Acura ECU's are so smart, block learn will keep the car safe" and "besides it only 5 pounds"
I spent weeks learning about the ECU in these cars, and talked to everyone out there. The truth is run it, see what happens, get yourself a CT ACM, and try it, it is a hell of a lot cheaper the Emanage, or the AEM. And with these stand alone units, you will spend thousands of dollars, if you can find anyone good enough to tune the thing..... When on a dyno, you will see HP numbers go up with every pull, and you never get the same number twice
if you want to get crazy, get an ACM from CT, and a set of RSX injectors,
if you do want to tune a stand alone unit, let me know, I am still interested in unleashing the beast in the type S from a better tuned ECM.
I am the guy that got the Type-S car running....Sean too
Anyways. I never would have had the balls to do it, if someone had not said "Acura ECU's are so smart, block learn will keep the car safe" and "besides it only 5 pounds"
I spent weeks learning about the ECU in these cars, and talked to everyone out there. The truth is run it, see what happens, get yourself a CT ACM, and try it, it is a hell of a lot cheaper the Emanage, or the AEM. And with these stand alone units, you will spend thousands of dollars, if you can find anyone good enough to tune the thing..... When on a dyno, you will see HP numbers go up with every pull, and you never get the same number twice
if you want to get crazy, get an ACM from CT, and a set of RSX injectors,
if you do want to tune a stand alone unit, let me know, I am still interested in unleashing the beast in the type S from a better tuned ECM.
The only thing I'm worried about is what I'd need to follow what you did. I don't want to buy a supercharger and learn I'm going to need more money to change other parts so that the whole car will run smooth. And then there's the Auto transmission which I'm definitely worried about adding a supercharger to (and have read on here that turbo'ing was better for autos anyways).
TBQH, I'm going to wait and see where the TL goes from your kit & the turbo being developed. I really want to see who puts down the better wheel horsepower, and which one will need the least amount of parts upgraded. I'm not directing this as an insult towards what you've done (in truth, I'm glad someone finally s/c'd a Type-S; gives hope), but we'll just say that I am a very cautious person & will probably continue to read up on both your's & the turbo kit for a couple more months.
05-13-2009 | 05:40 PM
#442
Oderint dum metuant.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,496
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From: Lake Wylie
05-13-2009 | 07:28 PM
#443
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,812
From: Bakersfield
I agree. After looking at one torn down on the bench, I believe it will live a long life with a supercharger. It's not that bad mechanically. Keep the electronics in good shape and you'll be fine. A cooler and synthetic fluid will definately help.
05-13-2009 | 08:29 PM
#444
BANNED
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05-13-2009 | 08:38 PM
#446
i noticed on my car i have some type of cooler on it. it looks just like an oil or a tranny cooler.
05-13-2009 | 09:50 PM
#449
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: Connecticut
I'm glad that the 3G transmission isn't a problem like the past generation's.
05-14-2009 | 12:03 AM
#450
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: NEW LONDON CT.
I would if I had the cash as I've really wanted to see what my car could do with a turbo, s/c, just even a simple tune. However, because it had not been done on a Type-S until your's, I had been skeptical and decided to wait to see how it continued after a few months.
The only thing I'm worried about is what I'd need to follow what you did. I don't want to buy a supercharger and learn I'm going to need more money to change other parts so that the whole car will run smooth. And then there's the Auto transmission which I'm definitely worried about adding a supercharger to (and have read on here that turbo'ing was better for autos anyways). with the exception of the ACM Mod, the rest of the kit was pretty basic, and went on pretty smooth, if you are brave, and want to try this, then the mods will come pretty easy. PM me for more details
TBQH, I'm going to wait and see where the TL goes from your kit & the turbo being developed. I really want to see who puts down the better wheel horsepower, and which one will need the least amount of parts upgraded. I'm not directing this as an insult towards what you've done (in truth, I'm glad someone finally s/c'd a Type-S; gives hope), but we'll just say that I am a very cautious person & will probably continue to read up on both your's & the turbo kit for a couple more months.
The only thing I'm worried about is what I'd need to follow what you did. I don't want to buy a supercharger and learn I'm going to need more money to change other parts so that the whole car will run smooth. And then there's the Auto transmission which I'm definitely worried about adding a supercharger to (and have read on here that turbo'ing was better for autos anyways). with the exception of the ACM Mod, the rest of the kit was pretty basic, and went on pretty smooth, if you are brave, and want to try this, then the mods will come pretty easy. PM me for more details
TBQH, I'm going to wait and see where the TL goes from your kit & the turbo being developed. I really want to see who puts down the better wheel horsepower, and which one will need the least amount of parts upgraded. I'm not directing this as an insult towards what you've done (in truth, I'm glad someone finally s/c'd a Type-S; gives hope), but we'll just say that I am a very cautious person & will probably continue to read up on both your's & the turbo kit for a couple more months.
05-14-2009 | 12:29 AM
#451
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,812
From: Bakersfield
I just went to watch my friend dyno his stock CL65 to get a "before" dyno and there was a turbocharged road race Mustang race car on there.
Turbo was in the back seat, intercooler was in the trunk between the tail lights and the air had to go from the trunk back up to the blowthrough carb setup (yuck).
It had a T-88 turbo, put down 820 to the wheels and spooled very well, especially for only 355 cubes.
They had trouble with spool at first with the turbo back there and after prying the info out of the guy, I learned something new today. There's a way to build piping to get them to spool lilke that, trust me, the STS kit does not do this, and it would cost a fortune to copy. Very neat stuff.
The guy basically said what I've been saying, since the exhaust is no longer hot and still expanding back there, you have to focus on velocity without causing too much backpressure if you want decent spool.
On a side note, I can't imagine what a car with 200 more hp and 1,000 lbs less than me feels like. I know they can't go full throttle even on the slicks below 100mph.
Turbo was in the back seat, intercooler was in the trunk between the tail lights and the air had to go from the trunk back up to the blowthrough carb setup (yuck).
It had a T-88 turbo, put down 820 to the wheels and spooled very well, especially for only 355 cubes.
They had trouble with spool at first with the turbo back there and after prying the info out of the guy, I learned something new today. There's a way to build piping to get them to spool lilke that, trust me, the STS kit does not do this, and it would cost a fortune to copy. Very neat stuff.
The guy basically said what I've been saying, since the exhaust is no longer hot and still expanding back there, you have to focus on velocity without causing too much backpressure if you want decent spool.
On a side note, I can't imagine what a car with 200 more hp and 1,000 lbs less than me feels like. I know they can't go full throttle even on the slicks below 100mph.
05-14-2009 | 02:02 AM
#452
2008 NBP
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 302
Likes: 3
From: Ft. Myers, FL
If someone wants to fund it I could make this turbo happen... fab. is easy. As for ecu I cant believe that no one can crack it thats BS especially with the increasing popularity of putting our engine in EG Civics... I can can guarantee that performance pistons, heads, ECT. will be coming soon especially with everyone doing J32 swaps
05-14-2009 | 02:08 AM
#453
Rev High; Drive Happy
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,076
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From: Scarborough, Ontario
If someone wants to fund it I could make this turbo happen... fab. is easy. As for ecu I cant believe that no one can crack it thats BS especially with the increasing popularity of putting our engine in EG Civics... I can can guarantee that performance pistons, heads, ECT. will be coming soon especially with everyone doing J32 swaps
There is a special Honda/Acura tuning shop in Montreal that is very reputable.
All specialized Honda/Acura motor and tuning work.
I'm sure they'd crack the TL's ecu if given time.
05-14-2009 | 02:16 AM
#454
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,812
From: Bakersfield
Did it have any debris in it? I've been running a magnefine inline filter for half of the car's life and so far so good. I cut it open on the first change and found nothing in the filter and just a little fuzz on the magnet.
05-14-2009 | 05:56 AM
#455
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No large debris, just the usual fine particles coming from the waer of the clutch discs, the issue is once this filter clogs it has a spring that then allows the small particles to bypass it and get into the pump, valve body and control solinoids, then the fun starts. Although I have destroyed two of these trannies, the orginal that cam with my 7th gen AV6 and another out of a 04 TL. I guess doing burnouts with a J35 under the hood is a bad thing since every friction disc in first gear was cracked......
05-14-2009 | 10:56 AM
#456
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
If someone wants to fund it I could make this turbo happen... fab. is easy. As for ecu I cant believe that no one can crack it thats BS especially with the increasing popularity of putting our engine in EG Civics... I can can guarantee that performance pistons, heads, ECT. will be coming soon especially with everyone doing J32 swaps
and btw, the honda (and toyota) techs have access to a ECM flashing device/computer for flashing updates to repsective ECM, etc, so you just need a insider, etc. however, the oem ECM has limited functionality so it may be futile to try and use the oem ECM alone to control a converted NA-to-FI motor. i know toyota has update "files" but i have not yet been able to see if these files are compiled or not.
Last edited by Turbo_Kid; 05-14-2009 at 11:01 AM.
05-14-2009 | 12:57 PM
#457
Suzuka Master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,259
Likes: 1,239
If someone wants to fund it I could make this turbo happen... fab. is easy. As for ecu I cant believe that no one can crack it thats BS especially with the increasing popularity of putting our engine in EG Civics... I can can guarantee that performance pistons, heads, ECT. will be coming soon especially with everyone doing J32 swaps
As I've said before, I'm positive we'd be closer to a tune had our cars sold in Japan.
05-14-2009 | 01:48 PM
#459
A J35A8 EG civic is in
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,334
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From: Jersey
)
05-14-2009 | 02:03 PM
#460
I've read something intresting about our ECM's.
Turns out we are sharing the same ones on the Vue V6's and Cobalts. A few companies have been able to crack in and tune it.
Although it is a 4 banger and we have V6's.... This could be the next step to finally getting something for our cars other than stand alone.
Turns out we are sharing the same ones on the Vue V6's and Cobalts. A few companies have been able to crack in and tune it.
Although it is a 4 banger and we have V6's.... This could be the next step to finally getting something for our cars other than stand alone.
05-14-2009 | 02:11 PM
#461
Suzuka Master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,259
Likes: 1,239
I've read something intresting about our ECM's.
Turns out we are sharing the same ones on the Vue V6's and Cobalts. A few companies have been able to crack in and tune it.
Although it is a 4 banger and we have V6's.... This could be the next step to finally getting something for our cars other than stand alone.
Turns out we are sharing the same ones on the Vue V6's and Cobalts. A few companies have been able to crack in and tune it.
Although it is a 4 banger and we have V6's.... This could be the next step to finally getting something for our cars other than stand alone.
05-14-2009 | 02:31 PM
#463
BANNED
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 695
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Enough of this, I have been looking to confirm if the VUE is using a GM ECM or the same as our Pilot/Oddy/Mdx. Time for me to add another subscription to my AllData account and check it out.....
Jake, while I am doing this can you look around for tuning for the VUE.....
Jake, while I am doing this can you look around for tuning for the VUE.....
05-14-2009 | 02:39 PM
#465
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We need the tools to pull and dis-assemble the code off the ECU, once we have that, then we can find the locations in the code where the maps are stored and modify them, then we need to be able to push the new code back to the ECU. Hondata does this for the Denso ECUs via a daughter board that is hooked into the MCU on the ECU.
05-14-2009 | 03:10 PM
#467
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=131344
Trifecta and HPTuners are the ones that do the tuning for Cobalts.
Trifecta and HPTuners are the ones that do the tuning for Cobalts.
i was thinking the same thing lol
05-15-2009 | 08:24 AM
#473
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The ACM is not that great, and provides no tunability, as soon as you deviate from it's parameters (HB pulley, cams, larger displacement) it will not run the car properly, at that point you might as well just get the Hondata reflash and wait for your engine to go boom.
05-15-2009 | 12:56 PM
#477
05-15-2009 | 04:48 PM
#480
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Well, I found out something interseting about the FIC for use in our cars.......
This applies to 7th gen AV6 and 3rd gen TLs.....
The FIC comes with one crank sensor and two cam sensor adjusters for timing, our cars have 2 crank sensors and 1 cam sensors, in order to be able to retard timing properly we have to hook up the 2 crank sensors to the cam I/Os on the fic and the cam sensor to the crank I/O on the fic, any other way and the ECU is going to throw codes. Now this has one nasty little sideeffect, not a problem for most of us only looking for 10 or less PSI, but if going for much higher than 10 PSI may be a problem. Since we are running the crank sensors thru the cam siganls timing adjustments will be 1/2 of the value entered, so if you enter -20D you will actually only see -10D at the crank, I have tested this on a 7th gen AV6 at up to -20D in the cell and did get a -10D at the crank. The FIC has a maximum timing adjustment of -31.88D so we end up with a actual max retard of 15.44D
I will be working on a signal modifing box that should resolve this as well as allow for timing advance for NA apps with the FIC, but it will be a while.
This applies to 7th gen AV6 and 3rd gen TLs.....
The FIC comes with one crank sensor and two cam sensor adjusters for timing, our cars have 2 crank sensors and 1 cam sensors, in order to be able to retard timing properly we have to hook up the 2 crank sensors to the cam I/Os on the fic and the cam sensor to the crank I/O on the fic, any other way and the ECU is going to throw codes. Now this has one nasty little sideeffect, not a problem for most of us only looking for 10 or less PSI, but if going for much higher than 10 PSI may be a problem. Since we are running the crank sensors thru the cam siganls timing adjustments will be 1/2 of the value entered, so if you enter -20D you will actually only see -10D at the crank, I have tested this on a 7th gen AV6 at up to -20D in the cell and did get a -10D at the crank. The FIC has a maximum timing adjustment of -31.88D so we end up with a actual max retard of 15.44D
I will be working on a signal modifing box that should resolve this as well as allow for timing advance for NA apps with the FIC, but it will be a while.