Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
05-15-2009, 07:26 PM
#482
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this method must be about the same for the motorola ECM..... again, the oem ECM has limited functionality to make high boost manageable. if you can get inside the oem ECM then perhaps that opens up some tweaking, but you'll still need a good piggyback or standalone (greddy or megasquirt)
05-15-2009, 07:31 PM
#483
practicing nihilist
Get some, NVA!
Dude, you know you'll b able to bring in a pretty penny for this box. Maybe sell it to one of the big companys...on second thought, why arent you working for one of those guys?
Dude, you know you'll b able to bring in a pretty penny for this box. Maybe sell it to one of the big companys...on second thought, why arent you working for one of those guys?
05-16-2009, 08:12 AM
#490
Here's some old salt expereince...
I think NVA is referring to the setting offueling and timing paramters for a boosted car will be beyond the the parameters the processor will allow. Cracking the ECU may not be sufficient. I don't think we're going to be able to boost without soe from of piggyback. My conversations with Nate at Comptech indicate the ECU is closed feedback, so the ECU fights piggybacks the inputs.
To "chip" a turbo'd VW to tinket with it's boost/smoke/timing and fueling map, it required removal of the ECU had to be desoldered from the board, flashed, then resoldered back to the board. Different manufacturer though...
My point is such maps don't exists in the current ECU.
Has anyone considered reverse engineering the RDX (already boosted) ECU for retrofit. I think that's the most viable option...
I think NVA is referring to the setting offueling and timing paramters for a boosted car will be beyond the the parameters the processor will allow. Cracking the ECU may not be sufficient. I don't think we're going to be able to boost without soe from of piggyback. My conversations with Nate at Comptech indicate the ECU is closed feedback, so the ECU fights piggybacks the inputs.
To "chip" a turbo'd VW to tinket with it's boost/smoke/timing and fueling map, it required removal of the ECU had to be desoldered from the board, flashed, then resoldered back to the board. Different manufacturer though...
My point is such maps don't exists in the current ECU.
Has anyone considered reverse engineering the RDX (already boosted) ECU for retrofit. I think that's the most viable option...
05-16-2009, 08:24 AM
#491
Team Owner
Here's some old salt expereince...
I think NVA is referring to the setting offueling and timing paramters for a boosted car will be beyond the the parameters the processor will allow. Cracking the ECU may not be sufficient. I don't think we're going to be able to boost without soe from of piggyback. My conversations with Nate at Comptech indicate the ECU is closed feedback, so the ECU fights piggybacks the inputs.
To "chip" a turbo'd VW to tinket with it's boost/smoke/timing and fueling map, it required removal of the ECU had to be desoldered from the board, flashed, then resoldered back to the board. Different manufacturer though...
My point is such maps don't exists in the current ECU.
Has anyone considered reverse engineering the RDX (already boosted) ECU for retrofit. I think that's the most viable option...
I think NVA is referring to the setting offueling and timing paramters for a boosted car will be beyond the the parameters the processor will allow. Cracking the ECU may not be sufficient. I don't think we're going to be able to boost without soe from of piggyback. My conversations with Nate at Comptech indicate the ECU is closed feedback, so the ECU fights piggybacks the inputs.
To "chip" a turbo'd VW to tinket with it's boost/smoke/timing and fueling map, it required removal of the ECU had to be desoldered from the board, flashed, then resoldered back to the board. Different manufacturer though...
My point is such maps don't exists in the current ECU.
Has anyone considered reverse engineering the RDX (already boosted) ECU for retrofit. I think that's the most viable option...
What if we trick it with a set of inputs to satisfy it enough to allow every accessory to function normally and use a stand alone like Felpro or Motec for engine management.
It's hard to elaborate, I've been up all night since someone tried to break-in but I'll try....
Keep the stock computer hooked into all the inputs like cam, crank, etc. Let the standalone actually control all of the outputs like injectors, ignition, etc. It might take some creative wiring and experimentation to see exactly what it would take to satisfy the stock unit but I think this would be the easiest route. Much easier than trying to crack a unit that may not have the capability of working with boost.
In other words, the stock unit "thinks" it's controlling things but it's not.
I know this comes across as vague, I'll try and explain better after I get a little sleep.
05-16-2009, 09:58 AM
#493
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closed loop? no maps?
the motorola ECM runs closed loop all the time? that would be odd. Toyota ECM has closed and open loop modes. and with a piggyback like MAPECU2 you can tap into various sensors and MAPECU2 can modify them to trick the oem ECM (such as MAF and AFR O2 sensor, etc), so it has closed and open loop functionality.
Toyota ECM's store short and long term maps, however, they are dynamic (have to be because the engine system/parts are dynamic as they get used/older, etc). so it's not like you crack in and change the maps, you need to let the ECM change them for you, but you do that by tricking the ECM inputs, etc.
again, 1st time with such a project, then start with a megasquirt, then come back to oem ECM.
the motorola ECM runs closed loop all the time? that would be odd. Toyota ECM has closed and open loop modes. and with a piggyback like MAPECU2 you can tap into various sensors and MAPECU2 can modify them to trick the oem ECM (such as MAF and AFR O2 sensor, etc), so it has closed and open loop functionality.
Toyota ECM's store short and long term maps, however, they are dynamic (have to be because the engine system/parts are dynamic as they get used/older, etc). so it's not like you crack in and change the maps, you need to let the ECM change them for you, but you do that by tricking the ECM inputs, etc.
again, 1st time with such a project, then start with a megasquirt, then come back to oem ECM.
05-16-2009, 11:48 AM
#494
Here's some old salt expereince...
I think NVA is referring to the setting offueling and timing paramters for a boosted car will be beyond the the parameters the processor will allow. Cracking the ECU may not be sufficient. I don't think we're going to be able to boost without soe from of piggyback. My conversations with Nate at Comptech indicate the ECU is closed feedback, so the ECU fights piggybacks the inputs.
To "chip" a turbo'd VW to tinket with it's boost/smoke/timing and fueling map, it required removal of the ECU had to be desoldered from the board, flashed, then resoldered back to the board. Different manufacturer though...
My point is such maps don't exists in the current ECU.
Has anyone considered reverse engineering the RDX (already boosted) ECU for retrofit. I think that's the most viable option...
I think NVA is referring to the setting offueling and timing paramters for a boosted car will be beyond the the parameters the processor will allow. Cracking the ECU may not be sufficient. I don't think we're going to be able to boost without soe from of piggyback. My conversations with Nate at Comptech indicate the ECU is closed feedback, so the ECU fights piggybacks the inputs.
To "chip" a turbo'd VW to tinket with it's boost/smoke/timing and fueling map, it required removal of the ECU had to be desoldered from the board, flashed, then resoldered back to the board. Different manufacturer though...
My point is such maps don't exists in the current ECU.
Has anyone considered reverse engineering the RDX (already boosted) ECU for retrofit. I think that's the most viable option...
This is why I am working so hard to get the FIC going, it has the ability to intercept and modify WB O2 sensor data to the ECU....
As far as the RDX ecu, are you kidding I hope, it is a 4cyl ECU fpor a 2.3L engine , exactly how do you think that would ever fly with a 3+L 6cyl engine.....
05-16-2009, 03:43 PM
#495
I've sent an e-mail to a local shop, and asked a few people online. However, they're asking why you don't use Greddy E-Manage, MOTEC, etc. instead of cracking the stock ecu.
Just trying to help you guys progress.
Just trying to help you guys progress.
haven't you been reading
05-16-2009, 05:37 PM
#497
Yes, I have. But the people I've been asking just do not completely understand the TL's computers and are suggesting already-attempted procedures.
This is one of the better responses I have received after asking those if they have any experience with Motorolas.
This is after I told him that we might potentially lose important features after he suggested why we didn't use things like Motech, GReddy E-Manage, etc. instead of "wasting" time cracking the stock ecu for such an "extensive NA-T setup" as this.
Note that this is the owner of 1,000Hp Supra built entirely out of his home, so he isn't some moron off the web.
This is one of the better responses I have received after asking those if they have any experience with Motorolas.
All they need is the wiring diagram to hardware an EMS as a Piggy back contrl engine functions. To control timing and AF and let the EMS control the other functions such as ABS, etc. The wiring diagram should be available from Acura internal factory manuals.
Note that this is the owner of 1,000Hp Supra built entirely out of his home, so he isn't some moron off the web.
05-16-2009, 11:38 PM
#498
This is why I am working so hard to get the FIC going, it has the ability to intercept and modify WB O2 sensor data to the ECU....
As far as the RDX ecu, are you kidding I hope, it is a 4cyl ECU fpor a 2.3L engine , exactly how do you think that would ever fly with a 3+L 6cyl engine.....
As far as the RDX ecu, are you kidding I hope, it is a 4cyl ECU fpor a 2.3L engine , exactly how do you think that would ever fly with a 3+L 6cyl engine.....
Again, my perspective is skewed, but the VW firmware/ECU supports almost all engine types... It was merely a matter of selecting particular embedded coding in the ECU for a engine- i4 diesel, or v6 gas... Custom tuning required flashing the eeprom for one of the se maps and selecting the correct coding for that map. It was actually very easy (form my standpoint - the map creation was the mad scientist work)
At one point in time I had a single ECU, with 3 seperate tunes loaded. It was wild. I could load the stock tuning by selecting the stock map, then a daily driver high performance map by selecting the 4cyl gasser map, and the HP tuning in th eV6 gasser map). This of course was simplified by all the other car ECU functions were shared amongst the same vehicle platform... nor was I ever sure any of the gauges ever worked properly... LOL.
Again, this is a matter of firmware, software, and inputs. I was merely hedging that if Honda builds engine management platforms independently (opposed to most German manufactuers building cross implementable platforms), then modifying the RDX platform would likely be easier approach, considering the RDX platform supports turbo'd engine inputs...
I dunno... I'm speculating.
Nate did mention the Honda ECU runs open loop too, but once it enters closed loop, nothing you can do.
This science is far above my paygrade. I understand what's happening, but am a lowly caveman watching the mad scientist figure it out.
Fun to watch, wish I had the time to work this harder...
05-17-2009, 07:57 AM
#499
practicing nihilist
Again, my perspective is skewed, but the VW firmware/ECU supports almost all engine types... It was merely a matter of selecting particular embedded coding in the ECU for a engine- i4 diesel, or v6 gas... Custom tuning required flashing the eeprom for one of the se maps and selecting the correct coding for that map. It was actually very easy (form my standpoint - the map creation was the mad scientist work)
I had a Motorola cellphone once, if that helps. It was a piece of crap.
05-17-2009, 09:09 AM
#500
A J35A8 EG civic is in
NVA-AV6 said that since ones a 2.3 4cyl and ours is a 3.2 v6... its a few posts up.
05-17-2009, 07:22 PM
#504
Maybe we need a different approach. I know we can't eliminate the stock computer since it's tied into everything including the AC.
What if we trick it with a set of inputs to satisfy it enough to allow every accessory to function normally and use a stand alone like Felpro or Motec for engine management.
It's hard to elaborate, I've been up all night since someone tried to break-in but I'll try....
Keep the stock computer hooked into all the inputs like cam, crank, etc. Let the standalone actually control all of the outputs like injectors, ignition, etc. It might take some creative wiring and experimentation to see exactly what it would take to satisfy the stock unit but I think this would be the easiest route. Much easier than trying to crack a unit that may not have the capability of working with boost.
In other words, the stock unit "thinks" it's controlling things but it's not.
I know this comes across as vague, I'll try and explain better after I get a little sleep.
What if we trick it with a set of inputs to satisfy it enough to allow every accessory to function normally and use a stand alone like Felpro or Motec for engine management.
It's hard to elaborate, I've been up all night since someone tried to break-in but I'll try....
Keep the stock computer hooked into all the inputs like cam, crank, etc. Let the standalone actually control all of the outputs like injectors, ignition, etc. It might take some creative wiring and experimentation to see exactly what it would take to satisfy the stock unit but I think this would be the easiest route. Much easier than trying to crack a unit that may not have the capability of working with boost.
In other words, the stock unit "thinks" it's controlling things but it's not.
I know this comes across as vague, I'll try and explain better after I get a little sleep.
05-17-2009, 07:23 PM
#505
No EPROM, the code and maps are stored in Flash on the MCU itself, so there is no external chip to hack.
05-17-2009, 09:46 PM
#508
94 DC4 RS LSV/Turbo
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Yes, I have. But the people I've been asking just do not completely understand the TL's computers and are suggesting already-attempted procedures.
This is one of the better responses I have received after asking those if they have any experience with Motorolas.
This is after I told him that we might potentially lose important features after he suggested why we didn't use things like Motech, GReddy E-Manage, etc. instead of "wasting" time cracking the stock ecu for such an "extensive NA-T setup" as this.
Note that this is the owner of 1,000Hp Supra built entirely out of his home, so he isn't some moron off the web.
This is one of the better responses I have received after asking those if they have any experience with Motorolas.
This is after I told him that we might potentially lose important features after he suggested why we didn't use things like Motech, GReddy E-Manage, etc. instead of "wasting" time cracking the stock ecu for such an "extensive NA-T setup" as this.
Note that this is the owner of 1,000Hp Supra built entirely out of his home, so he isn't some moron off the web.
POST # 339
05-18-2009, 04:38 AM
#511
I'm sorry if I don't remember 1 particular post made 171 posts ago out of the current 510.
So, to actually try & contribute something, Jotech e-mailed me back curious about the ECU. They don't have access to a TL, but told me they would gladly take a look at it if I wanted to bring mine in.
05-18-2009, 08:57 AM
#515
2008 335i e92 6MT
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no, i dont think the op is the same one who sent the harness to NVA. the actual turbo car being produced by jandr and p2r is an entirely different car. i believe the op was the one who put the turbo under the car. but yeah haven't heard from him... x_X.
hopefully we get an update from j and r and p2r's turbo TL =]
05-18-2009, 11:16 AM
#517
A J35A8 EG civic is in
are your really working on one? or was that a joke?
05-18-2009, 12:29 PM
#518
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First two hurdles, I have called just about evey piggy back and standalone MFG out there, none of them like the crank pattern of our engines so we will need to add another crank sensor to kepp the stand alone happy. As far as keeping the stock ECU happy, it all can be relativly easily done except for one piece, the damn WB O2 sensors, we would need a computer to take MAP, TPS, Injector Cycle info and map it back to a current value that the stock ECU will be happy with. Yes a current value, not voltage, the priomary O2 sensors vary current flow not voltage to represent the AFR to the ECU.
05-18-2009, 02:01 PM
#519
No, that was not a joke, just waiting on the pistons and rods to finish assembeling the engine, I sleeved the block with darton MID sleeves a while ago and have the head to turbo piping mocked up, just need to finish welding it. Will be using a single GT35RS snail which I know will produce 28.4lbs of boost at 4500 RPM on a J35.
05-18-2009, 02:02 PM
#520
well, you didnt search hard enough. PMR (the folks who make mapecu2) have a module exactly for this (although i think it is made to integrate with mapecu2). you need this module to trick the oem ECM, otherwise whatever your piggyback does the oem ECM will fight it trying to get afr's back to stoich.