KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

They're all made in the USA but are configured differently depending on the country it is being sold to.

Inaccurate

If it is a Canada model, it should have a MID warning for low wiper fluid. Plus, I think it has no XM antenna on the roof. How does this match with your car Joey ?

Inaccurate

I just check the 2004 Service Manual. I checked for the wiper fluid low level wiring to confirm that the SM includes stuff for Canada models. It was there and labeled as Canada models. So, the manual does include stuff for Canada models.

I checked the ECU wiring diagrams. There was no special notations regarding Canada models. Just notations for the difference between 5AT versus 6MT.

Based on this quick check, there appears to be no difference in the ecu wiring for the Canada model.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

I have a 2007 6speed TL-S and also have that code, though it doesnt appear on my friends same model year 2007 TL-S 5AT.

I am interested to know if this is related to your high idle...since I have been blaming my random high idle issue on my larger SHAWD throttle body, but who knows.......

I just bought a stock TB again to test this out. It should be here early next week. Ill plug it in and see.

I called Rodney last week regarding the P0720 so he could get me a pinout of the ecu. I wanted to check if the wire is in a different position or was accidentally not connected/miswired.

Will let you know when I hear something.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

The Output Shaft (countershaft) Speed Sensor is marked as NC

Mine is B19, 04-05 is D14.

I don't have a tap or intercept for that line so just check to make sure you have a passthru connection.

Joey tl

Do yous guys think the code P0720 (output shaft speed sensor) being trigger is causing my car to rev high at idle (1800)? If so then there is something wrong with the MS3 or harness. Stock ecu Dosnt trigger that code. Sorry for asking alot of question there is no one here that could help me. Just aziners and Rodney, you guys know your stuff.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

^^ Did you even read my post?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^apparently not.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

This is on the output shaft of the transmission so high idle should not trigger this. If the error clears when the stock ECU is connected and appears with the MS3 harness in place, then it has to be the harness.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

^^ Well sure....but im just trying to help myself and others (Rodney?) out by trying to diagnose. I hadnt heard back from him yet, so your info really helps, as I dont see the diagram/B connector pin info you posted in my service manual. Perhaps I was missing pages, or its a dealer only diagram. Thx!

Regardless, lets get to the bottom of this. Im hoping our issues arent related, but there will be no telling until I receive the OEM 3rd gen TL throttle body in the mail (as the first step in diagnosis).

And keep in mind, as I said this wasnt an issue on the same model year 5sp Automatic TL-S....so as my first guess these cases are going to be a 6speed specific based on current evidence...unless the TB rules it out.

Joey tl

Sorry I'm using my iPhone which is not update your post instantly. When I'm on my laptop I will post accordingly. Thanks for everyones help to get this fixed. You guys are awesome

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Not sure what this means but all I am trying to do is help as well. I downloaded all of the ECU pinouts for Rodney and I think he had the type-s already so I don't have them. I looked at the 07/08 base and it's all 5AT based which I assume means there wasn't a 6MT base. I wouldn't go by anything I have provided in your case. I am trying to help my northern based friend.

JoeyTL - I just moved my ride from one side of the garage to the other and cold idle is in the 1-1.5K range.

kingkong_dav

nice

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Sorry Gerzand, I just went through all the ECU pinouts on my machine and I don't have any of the 07 or 08 type S diagrams.

EDIT:

Just an observation, but since the 07/08 entry is all 5AT and there isn't a pin for NC, does that mean that AT's don't have an output shaft sensor? Like I said, not having both diagrams to reference, I am just guessing.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Well, regardless if you knew it or not....you helped me.

All 06 - 08 harnesses are close if not identical from what I recall when talking with Rodney....thus why he was labeling harnesses "06-08".

In any case, I guess it cant hurt to check the pin B19!

What system are you using? Official Honda (at a dealer, for example), or just files?

Regarding your edit...........I dont see how youre connecting those dots in any way

And doesnt an output sensor tell the tranny the vehicle speed....."aka" a VSS?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Looks like there is no difference between type-s and base.

So B19 should be the same in your case as well.

I use the online subscription from helminc for both my Honda and Acura.

EDIT:

You're right. I just looked, AT and MT are slightly different but both have a NC. VSSOUT must base it's value on NC

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Oh shit, now I get what you were saying.

Very interesting! That would explain my friends TL-S 5AT lack of a CEL then...


EDIT:

Just saw your post while I was typing this.....

Crap......you had my hopes up that this was a deleted wire from a 07/08 5AT. lol

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

EDIT: Disregard

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Sorry man, typing faster than I am looking at things.

But yeah, B19 is the same NC connection on both AT and MT.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

i'm just gonna hop in for a second, since were on the subject of CEL's.

the codes i got are P0172 and P0175 (bank 1 and 2 running rich) on my fully bolted 07 TL-S. i was aware that i would probably get these CEL's...but am i harming the car in any way driving around like this AND is there any way to fix this?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

So youre saying it DOESNT want to be plugged in on my 6sp?....aka it expects a no connect (NC?)

If you have PCD's and defoulers you shouldnt get the code, and if you do, change the diameter of the pin hole in the defouler to a smaller diameter...or to a whole different defouler entirely.

You cannot damage a cat if you are 12:1

If your 10:1, it causes excessive soot (carbon buildup) on plugs and engine components such as EGR. It can also burn out cats.

I doubt your that rich, though....

Get an AFR

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

No, I think it does. As you said about VSS, it is possible that VSSOUT bases it's calculation on input NC.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

I thought No Connect meant 0 volts.

Disconnected.

No? Am I wrong?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Description says:

With ignition switch ON (II) and front wheels rotated by hand:pulses. It's a blu wire.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^you two need to call each other.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

i have richies v3 pcd's, and i've had them for over a year and NEVER got a CEL. now i install the ECU, and i get one almost immediately.

i guess i don't understand why i would need to mess with my defoulers.

i am ordering a AFR soon.

so you think i'm ok tho? i just don't want to unknowingly be causing damage to something. i don't have the knock sensor option or anything else, just the ECU.

oh yeah my AFR's are in the high 11's according to our trial run with the ECU this past weekend. could that have changed over the course of a day?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

If you are in the 11's all the time.... you need tuned. You should be setting in the mid-high 12's for NA, and thats only for WOT. There is no need for 11's unless youre boosted. Im not saying you put yourself there, but the base Fuel map isnt dialed in enough for your car in this case as your engine is just being given too much fuel.

I can see why you are throwing the too rich CELs now.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

ok so i'll go back and re-tune with my friend.

am i ok for the time being driving like this, or should i unhook the ECU until i get it re-tuned?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

its up to you

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

Inaccurate

If it is truly running rich, your gas mileage will take a dump too.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

this.

i've been tearing through gas, although i've been driving harder too (can't help myself )...i just don't want to be messing anything up like this.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ sharky have you tried resetting the ECU ??? also let a little more carbon build up on the defoulers and i bet the code will go away

the fenda rolla

Can you datalog to see what RPM you are running rich, then take away fuel in the appropriate tables in the software to get the AFR to a more reasonable number? Also monitor your Long Term Fuel Trims...they should be as close to 0 as possible...

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ he doesnt have an AFR gauge or any data logging tool....

wait, he can log using the MS3 itself right ?

EDIT: Why dont you jut get LIVETUNE and let it tune for you once the coolant reaches a particular temp...so it will tune it while you drive !!!.....

the fenda rolla

^^^ I think the wideband O2 sensor is mandatory for the Livetune feature...which he said he's gettin' so he should be good to go!

Joey tl

Here's a pic of my harness, gerzand or kn_tl is there something I can try out to help fix the code problem or just wait to hear from Rodney or gerzand?


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Joey tl

Symptoms
- Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)
- Speedometer improper reading
- Possible shifting problems
Possible causes
- Speed sensor harness or connectors
- Sensor circuit is open or shorted
- Speed sensor
P0720 ACURA Description
The speed sensor detects the revolution of the idler gear parking pawl lock gear and emits a pulse signal. The pulse signal is sent to the Transmission Control Module (TCM) which converts it into vehicle speed.
When is the code detected?
Diagnostic trouble code is detected when Transmission Control Module (TCM) does not receive the proper voltage signal from the sensor.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Do you know how to use a continuity tester? See if Pin B19 is complete from one connector to the other. As Gerzand and I were discussing, B19 is the sensor input of the output shaft to the ECU and I thought that VSS would be the resulting output. That is why your speedo is off. You've got a 6MT so the shifting is up to you.

You won't be able to use VE Analyze Live without wideband feedback.

Joey tl

^^^ I dont but I will ask a friend thanks ,this is what my tool read and what does it mean thank


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