Factory IM Spacer - 17108-RDJ-A00
10-26-2009, 05:02 PM
#641
Chapter Leader (NY/NJ)
iTrader: (10)
are you gonna drive to compare both? i know we all trust P2R but i would myself want to compare how much power is actually lost with and without the spacer after you install the pnp'ed parts
10-26-2009, 08:59 PM
#642
i need some more info on the top end "loss" i just purchased all the necessary parts for this, and have also recently installed the pcd's i would like some low, mid range power so i was thinking this would be a great mod but i also love the power the pcd's have added on the highway, has anybody dynoed this yet?
swoosh dave mungenast has all the parts needed, spacer took 2 days and all the bolts except the 105 mm took the same the big bolts have taken about two weeks so far, i think they should be in tomorrow
swoosh dave mungenast has all the parts needed, spacer took 2 days and all the bolts except the 105 mm took the same the big bolts have taken about two weeks so far, i think they should be in tomorrow
10-26-2009, 11:01 PM
#648
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
I mean technically I COULD.... but it would be biased because im going to gain a lil power from the PnP'd mani and runners once those parts are added. A solution would be dyno with pnp'd + spacer then with pnp'd - spacer... but unfortunately I dont have the time or money or patience to do multiple dynos...and Im not goona trust the butt tyno on this close of a call. HMMMMM :P
10-27-2009, 07:38 AM
#650
i'm selling my spacer, gaskets, and bolts if anyone is interested. All brand new. This stuff is hard to find.
BLack Market Thread here: https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/3g-tl-project-reset-sale-atlp-rv6-jnc-function-form-749839/
BLack Market Thread here: https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/3g-tl-project-reset-sale-atlp-rv6-jnc-function-form-749839/
Last edited by Bearcat94; 10-29-2009 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Fixed BM Link
10-27-2009, 10:40 AM
#651
J36Twingt28r's,nextgt30r
why is everyone selling their spacer? i thought that this spacer was a good thing? i mean doesn't honda get made fun of because of our low end torque? this mod seem perfect to me to solve that low end torque problem most hondas have. im gonna do this mod and see how it works out for me cause i plan on dynoing it before and after. then porting everything runner, manifold, tb, spacer and throwing in tl-s cams to complete the setup. anyone tell me what is wrong with this spacer i mean people get good results right?
10-27-2009, 12:12 PM
#652
AZ Community Team
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Hey guys just a lil update....
Since installing this spacer I have installed precat deletes.
I am now about to bolt on a junkyard Intake Manifold and Intake Runners that I had PnP'd.
After talking on the phone with P2R, they said that after much experimentation and dynoing with the J32A3 with/without the RDX/RIDGELINE spacer in a high flow top end setup, it is best NOT to use it any longer because of more than acceptable losses to the top end. How much exactly, I do not know. But this will be getting removed this week from my car.
Since installing this spacer I have installed precat deletes.
I am now about to bolt on a junkyard Intake Manifold and Intake Runners that I had PnP'd.
After talking on the phone with P2R, they said that after much experimentation and dynoing with the J32A3 with/without the RDX/RIDGELINE spacer in a high flow top end setup, it is best NOT to use it any longer because of more than acceptable losses to the top end. How much exactly, I do not know. But this will be getting removed this week from my car.
Is this just with the IM PnP'd and the Spacer "raw"?
10-27-2009, 12:24 PM
#653
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
Did I understand your question correctly? lemmie know mang
Last edited by gerzand; 10-27-2009 at 12:28 PM.
10-27-2009, 02:31 PM
#654
P2R was strictly referencing " high flow top end setups" as being those motors where port and polishing of parts beyond just a bored TB (for example, intake manifold, runners, and heads) has been done. It is only then that a top end loss may be seen on an NA motor when using a MDX/Ridgeline spacer. Im not sure if they had ever used a PnP'd spacer with a PnP'd IM and PnP'd runners. But im guessing turbulence would still be an issue .
Did I understand your question correctly? lemmie know mang
Did I understand your question correctly? lemmie know mang
Not planning on doing this, so I'm good!
10-27-2009, 02:56 PM
#655
J36Twingt28r's,nextgt30r
humm i wonder what paul from v6 performance would say about this??? he really has all the knowlege. i mean i am sponsored by P2R and love thier work but i think Paul knows more.
10-27-2009, 03:49 PM
#657
J36Twingt28r's,nextgt30r
^^ yeah dude im not saying they don't know anything about it, i just wanna hear what pauls opinion is on this. im kind of a newb so don't flame me but wouldn't the tl-s cams help to keep from losing top end in a p&ped setup? im excited to get this spacer, however going to sell my dc strut bar because the higher im will not allow the dc strut bar to fit. do u guys know if richies strut bar for the 3rd gen tl will fit 7th gen accords? thankyou
10-27-2009, 11:36 PM
#658
94 DC4 RS LSV/Turbo
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as the op... this is a budget way to get some power... port and polishing is pricey... I never really commented on even getting parts pnp... I honestly would get parts ported... but polished i don't know... ported runners alone flow better than those that are both pnp... 
10-28-2009, 07:12 AM
#661
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
as the op... this is a budget way to get some power... port and polishing is pricey... I never really commented on even getting parts pnp... I honestly would get parts ported... but polished i don't know... ported runners alone flow better than those that are both pnp...
Yeah, that was mentioned above. I dono, wanna try it? Im outta money! :P
10-29-2009, 11:22 AM
#665
Three Wheelin'
Ok I read all pages but I'm still not sure on this:
How much milling would be required on the MDX spacer to get proper clearance without *?
*cutting the hood, removing insulation, removing/cutting engine cover, adding hood spacers
I am also using the stock strut bar, and plan on keeping it.
I also know that the bracket that holds the engine cover clips needs modification to fit, that shouldn't be a problem. If this is impossible, so be it, I just won't do it
The MDX spacer is about 1-5/8". Would I need to bring it down to 1"?
How much milling would be required on the MDX spacer to get proper clearance without *?
*cutting the hood, removing insulation, removing/cutting engine cover, adding hood spacers
I am also using the stock strut bar, and plan on keeping it.
I also know that the bracket that holds the engine cover clips needs modification to fit, that shouldn't be a problem. If this is impossible, so be it, I just won't do it
The MDX spacer is about 1-5/8". Would I need to bring it down to 1"?
10-29-2009, 11:37 AM
#666
Team Owner
It's more important NA than for boost. I saw that you said ported flows better than ported and polished, why would you say that? PnP flows better, you may be hanging on to one of the old carbureted myths. In the days of carburetors you didn't want everything polished and shiny because it would cause fuel drop out. That's something we don't have to worry about.
10-29-2009, 11:38 AM
#667
Team Owner
10-29-2009, 12:06 PM
#669
Ok I read all pages but I'm still not sure on this:
How much milling would be required on the MDX spacer to get proper clearance without *?
*cutting the hood, removing insulation, removing/cutting engine cover, adding hood spacers
I am also using the stock strut bar, and plan on keeping it.
I also know that the bracket that holds the engine cover clips needs modification to fit, that shouldn't be a problem. If this is impossible, so be it, I just won't do it
The MDX spacer is about 1-5/8". Would I need to bring it down to 1"?
How much milling would be required on the MDX spacer to get proper clearance without *?
*cutting the hood, removing insulation, removing/cutting engine cover, adding hood spacers
I am also using the stock strut bar, and plan on keeping it.
I also know that the bracket that holds the engine cover clips needs modification to fit, that shouldn't be a problem. If this is impossible, so be it, I just won't do it
The MDX spacer is about 1-5/8". Would I need to bring it down to 1"?
10-29-2009, 12:18 PM
#670
Safety Car
Short answer, No. Compression in racing engines is made higher to compensate for the lower effective compression caused by racing camshafts with huge overlap. A 14:1 racing engine with an extreme racing camshaft would have the same cylinder pressure as our 11:1 oem TL engine.
Our oem 11:1 TL engine is already squeezing all of the power out of "pump" fuel. Any higher compression will cause denotation and the associated loss of power.
It would take racing fuel to support any higher compression ratio. And even then, the HP gains are meager.
10-29-2009, 09:09 PM
#673
Team Owner
I was in a hurry at work when I posted that. What I meant was higher compression will make more power but the airflow remains the same. You'll see good gains in mpg, more percentage wise than you will in power.
Like these guys mentioned, you have to have the octane to support it and the stock ratio is pushing the limits of pump gas.
As Inaccurate mentioned, you can get away with higher compression and large cams. More overlap from the cams lowers idle and low rpms cylinder pressure. Higher compression will make up for this.
A guy I used to work for who had been building circle track engines for years had a hard time when they limited compression ratio. Due to the extremely large cam, they required a high compression. When the limit was imposed, the engines wouldn't idle at all, just not enough compression to idle. The solution was much more timing, more timing than I've ever seen in any engine at idle. Firing it way before top dead center was the only way to get the pressure rise needed to idle and the throttle had to be set twice as far open.
And agreed, you don't need more than 103 octane, in fact I haven't seen gains past a 96 octane mixture. You won't lose power but you will waste money with a stronger mixture on a stock engine.
11-01-2009, 10:10 PM
#676
J36Twingt28r's,nextgt30r
I LOVE THIS SPACER!!!! I HIGHLY RECOMMEND. My BUTT-DYNO feels the increase in torque immediately. I definately have more wheel spin too!!! Plus, i drove non-stop for about 20 minutes today hitting WOT everytime i hit the gas and when i got home my intake manifold was still cold!!! i love this spacer. btw i am running this spacer with P2R Thermal IM spacer. THANKS GERZAND
11-02-2009, 09:59 AM
#677
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
^^Hey your welcome man. Im also impressed with my Pnp Mani. My lord, it pulls like a bat out of hell top end. P2r musta done the right stuff My buddy with a 280whp/330ft.lb '08 turbo'd and tuned Cobalt typically pulls mad top end on me from 40-60+.....not any more!
My buddy with a 280whp/330ft.lb '08 turbo'd and tuned Cobalt typically pulls mad top end on me from 40-60+.....not any more!
11-02-2009, 10:49 AM
#678
Team Owner
Seriously, if you do the heads, see if there's a thinner headgasket around that will raise compression by half a point. This is only advisable if 93-94 is available at the pump otherwise you'll have to run a mix of tolulene or a few gallons of 100 unleaded with each fillup.
11-02-2009, 11:08 AM
#679
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
Are you going to try the ported heads or are you going to see what she dynos first? If you like the gains from the ported intake tract, you haven't seen anything yet.
Seriously, if you do the heads, see if there's a thinner headgasket around that will raise compression by half a point. This is only advisable if 93-94 is available at the pump otherwise you'll have to run a mix of tolulene or a few gallons of 100 unleaded with each fillup.
Seriously, if you do the heads, see if there's a thinner headgasket around that will raise compression by half a point. This is only advisable if 93-94 is available at the pump otherwise you'll have to run a mix of tolulene or a few gallons of 100 unleaded with each fillup.
Oh, btw did you see my post in the other NA thread saying how I didnt realize that the runners cant be removed from the heads until at least one of the heads are removed. I didnt know if youd ever noticed/encountered this. I wasted a bunch of time removing the front fuel rail/injectors, unbolting the runners and such before I realized they this. Rats! :P Oh well, just have to wait till I'm ready to do the rest of the build in one shot.
Last edited by gerzand; 11-02-2009 at 11:10 AM.