Factory IM Spacer - 17108-RDJ-A00
11-02-2009, 11:50 AM
#681
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
So, with the spacer removed and my stock mani on the car, my car went back to its old self (Not much low end) however the top end was still pretty healthy for what it is due to the RV6 pre-cat deletes
After installing the PnP'd mani and removing the Im spacer, the entire power band is now much more healthy all around, namely the sub 3k and >5k ranges.
For example, going up a 20 degree incline for a highway entrance ramp which I drive multiple times a day....the low end (2500-2900rpm) gets the car up and going much quicker and with much less effort. You dont feel the motor strain or "let off" due to the weight of the vehicle.
To add to this, the top end is a different animal as well. Typically when shifting into 3rd at WOT, there would be a slight pause in shifts when nearing redline---as where now, the car just flies into 3rd with no letting up. Let me put it like this....If had sound deadening headphones on I wouldnt even know I had shifted into 3rd yet, because acceleration is that seamless now between thee gears.
Say im exaggerating all you want, but im loving is... and im nowhere close to my 350whp magic number yet.
After installing the PnP'd mani and removing the Im spacer, the entire power band is now much more healthy all around, namely the sub 3k and >5k ranges.
For example, going up a 20 degree incline for a highway entrance ramp which I drive multiple times a day....the low end (2500-2900rpm) gets the car up and going much quicker and with much less effort. You dont feel the motor strain or "let off" due to the weight of the vehicle.
To add to this, the top end is a different animal as well. Typically when shifting into 3rd at WOT, there would be a slight pause in shifts when nearing redline---as where now, the car just flies into 3rd with no letting up. Let me put it like this....If had sound deadening headphones on I wouldnt even know I had shifted into 3rd yet, because acceleration is that seamless now between thee gears.
Say im exaggerating all you want, but im loving is... and im nowhere close to my 350whp magic number yet.
Last edited by gerzand; 11-02-2009 at 11:53 AM.
11-03-2009, 07:36 AM
#685
Ryan Christopher
It would throw the alignment of the intake tube from the SC to the manifold off. I would not worry about doing this mod with a super charger. You could do this mod if you wanted a bit more low end until you get the charger, since it is fairly inexpensive.
11-03-2009, 09:54 AM
#686
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11-03-2009, 10:08 AM
#687
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
Im not even doing a supercharger so you cant say im taking sides... but "about the same price"? How is 3k for a used supercharger at ALL equal to 6k for the turbo kit? Spend $500 on a meth kit and ur golden. $3500 OTD.
11-03-2009, 10:29 AM
#688
takin care of Business in
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i thought the SC was $4500....and me being me, i rather spend another $1000 and get a completely tuned and tested Turbo.....
those guys on the same turbo but higher boost are making close to 550-600 whp.....which is almost twice of where a supercharger gets u.....
again this was to JOKERMAN....there are a lot many options you have for this car....but then again for some people (include me) this is a daily driver and i dont think am in for either supercharger or turbo or meth or anything which forces my car to stay in the garage for prolonged periods.....i dont mind bolt on's
.....
and gerz i think you have more knowledge than I do when it comes to flow and compression and all that and hence you have a mental picture of where PnP will take u.....and all i can say it all the best.....lemme know how it holds up !!!
those guys on the same turbo but higher boost are making close to 550-600 whp.....which is almost twice of where a supercharger gets u.....
again this was to JOKERMAN....there are a lot many options you have for this car....but then again for some people (include me) this is a daily driver and i dont think am in for either supercharger or turbo or meth or anything which forces my car to stay in the garage for prolonged periods.....i dont mind bolt on's
.....and gerz i think you have more knowledge than I do when it comes to flow and compression and all that and hence you have a mental picture of where PnP will take u.....and all i can say it all the best.....lemme know how it holds up !!!
11-04-2009, 05:56 PM
#689
Jokerman
Isn't a supercharger better for the A/T. And i thought the turbo put too much pressure on the engine what other mods need to be done for the turbo kits to not screw up the engine? And would the spacer work for this, cause if i do the spacer mod until i get the money to do either forced induction kit i dont think i would want to remove it.
11-04-2009, 06:29 PM
#690
Team Owner
Isn't a supercharger better for the A/T. And i thought the turbo put too much pressure on the engine what other mods need to be done for the turbo kits to not screw up the engine? And would the spacer work for this, cause if i do the spacer mod until i get the money to do either forced induction kit i dont think i would want to remove it.
In a nutshell, the turbo is easier on the engine hp for hp. If you're going forced induction in the future don't waste your money on other mods now. You will be able to make more hp than the stock bottom end can hold with just the turbo. Anything you spend right now is a waste.
11-05-2009, 12:33 AM
#691
Burning Brakes
Isn't a supercharger better for the A/T. And i thought the turbo put too much pressure on the engine what other mods need to be done for the turbo kits to not screw up the engine? And would the spacer work for this, cause if i do the spacer mod until i get the money to do either forced induction kit i dont think i would want to remove it.
The things you need to concern yourself with if going FI is:
1) Motor strength (ie rods, pistons, head gaskets)
2) Cooling, more HP means more heat
3) Fuel, are the injectors up to the task
4) Tuning
Out of all those, tuning is the most crucial ESPECIALLY with a turbo. Usually what kills most FI-NA motors is the onset of boost. Newer turbos are extremely efficent. They ramp up quickly and can deliver boost within a few hundred rpms. That means the motor could go from 120whp to 250whp in a matter of 500rpms. That 500rpms is where it's basically do or die. If your tuning is poor, that big wallop of power with inadequate fuel could cause catastrophic failure due to detonation and send a snapped rod thru the block. It would happen so fast you most likely wouldn't have enough time to release the throttle. These types of failures are common place with bad tuning. Then there's the question about the motor strength. Light and thing pistons and rods, tend not to lend themselves well to FI, especially turbos and over the long term.
Overall, the best FI setups are turbos. They're efficent and greatly increase overall power band, increasing torque and HP at every point of the powerband.
Centrifugal blowers, like those from Vortech or Procharger, deliver their from rpm. The more rpm, the more HP. The power delivery is linear, just like an NA motor. You feel no real boost surge. Instead, the motor just keeps pulling. HP is increased a good bit and torque not so much. A 400whp centrifugal motor won't be remotely as fast as a 400whp turbo motor because the turbo motor will have far more power under the curve. The centrifugal advantage is it's easier to tune and a bit safer.
Roots/screw-type blower like that from Comptech deliver strong low and midrange HP and torque, sometimes better than that of a turbo, but the roots setup becomes inefficent as the rpms increase because of the massive amount of heat the screws generate. The advantage of these blowers is reliability, ease of installation, and are somewhat easy to tune.
11-05-2009, 01:42 PM
#692
Team Owner
HP is HP, and for the most part is irrelavent to your question. You should be more concerned about how the power from the forced induction application is delivered. With regards to the safety of FI in general, BUYER BEWARE. Adding FI to an NA motor is always a risk, with some motors are riskier than others. The motor in your TL was made to rev and get it's HP from rpm. The pistons and connecting rods are light and relatively thin so that the motor can rev high and rev fast. The compression ratio is also pretty high. FI-designed motors are usually more robust and not quite so eager to rev when the turbo is online. The FI motors tend to have lower compression ratios, heavier duty blocks, rods, pistons, head gaskets, cooling systems, etc. They also have big injectors to 1) keep up with the increased air flow and 2) keep the combustion chamber cooler (ie fuel lowers combustion chamber temps which reduces detonation).
The things you need to concern yourself with if going FI is:
1) Motor strength (ie rods, pistons, head gaskets)
2) Cooling, more HP means more heat
3) Fuel, are the injectors up to the task
4) Tuning
Out of all those, tuning is the most crucial ESPECIALLY with a turbo. Usually what kills most FI-NA motors is the onset of boost. Newer turbos are extremely efficent. They ramp up quickly and can deliver boost within a few hundred rpms. That means the motor could go from 120whp to 250whp in a matter of 500rpms. That 500rpms is where it's basically do or die. If your tuning is poor, that big wallop of power with inadequate fuel could cause catastrophic failure due to detonation and send a snapped rod thru the block. It would happen so fast you most likely wouldn't have enough time to release the throttle. These types of failures are common place with bad tuning. Then there's the question about the motor strength. Light and thing pistons and rods, tend not to lend themselves well to FI, especially turbos and over the long term.
Overall, the best FI setups are turbos. They're efficent and greatly increase overall power band, increasing torque and HP at every point of the powerband.
Centrifugal blowers, like those from Vortech or Procharger, deliver their from rpm. The more rpm, the more HP. The power delivery is linear, just like an NA motor. You feel no real boost surge. Instead, the motor just keeps pulling. HP is increased a good bit and torque not so much. A 400whp centrifugal motor won't be remotely as fast as a 400whp turbo motor because the turbo motor will have far more power under the curve. The centrifugal advantage is it's easier to tune and a bit safer.
Roots/screw-type blower like that from Comptech deliver strong low and midrange HP and torque, sometimes better than that of a turbo, but the roots setup becomes inefficent as the rpms increase because of the massive amount of heat the screws generate. The advantage of these blowers is reliability, ease of installation, and are somewhat easy to tune.
The things you need to concern yourself with if going FI is:
1) Motor strength (ie rods, pistons, head gaskets)
2) Cooling, more HP means more heat
3) Fuel, are the injectors up to the task
4) Tuning
Out of all those, tuning is the most crucial ESPECIALLY with a turbo. Usually what kills most FI-NA motors is the onset of boost. Newer turbos are extremely efficent. They ramp up quickly and can deliver boost within a few hundred rpms. That means the motor could go from 120whp to 250whp in a matter of 500rpms. That 500rpms is where it's basically do or die. If your tuning is poor, that big wallop of power with inadequate fuel could cause catastrophic failure due to detonation and send a snapped rod thru the block. It would happen so fast you most likely wouldn't have enough time to release the throttle. These types of failures are common place with bad tuning. Then there's the question about the motor strength. Light and thing pistons and rods, tend not to lend themselves well to FI, especially turbos and over the long term.
Overall, the best FI setups are turbos. They're efficent and greatly increase overall power band, increasing torque and HP at every point of the powerband.
Centrifugal blowers, like those from Vortech or Procharger, deliver their from rpm. The more rpm, the more HP. The power delivery is linear, just like an NA motor. You feel no real boost surge. Instead, the motor just keeps pulling. HP is increased a good bit and torque not so much. A 400whp centrifugal motor won't be remotely as fast as a 400whp turbo motor because the turbo motor will have far more power under the curve. The centrifugal advantage is it's easier to tune and a bit safer.
Roots/screw-type blower like that from Comptech deliver strong low and midrange HP and torque, sometimes better than that of a turbo, but the roots setup becomes inefficent as the rpms increase because of the massive amount of heat the screws generate. The advantage of these blowers is reliability, ease of installation, and are somewhat easy to tune.
Mine goes a little rich as the turbo is spooling to prevent any lean spots. It hurts spool by a few miliseconds but is worth it for reliability.
One thing you touched on but did not elaborate is the low rpm spool that many modern turbos are capable of. This greatly increases cylinder pressure and stress on parts. It's one of the many reasons I prefer an auto with a semi-high stall convertor for a turbo application.
11-22-2009, 09:02 PM
#696
J36Twingt28r's,nextgt30r
i still can't say how much i love this mod!!! im an auto and spin my tires as soon as im on the gas. a must have mod in my book. but i would invest in some hood spacers if u want the most benefit!!
11-29-2009, 12:46 PM
#700
Former Whyner
Get your MDX spacer and Bolts from me
Hey guys I just took my spacer off and have it FS in the BM. No need to wait weeks for these bolts.
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/3g-parts-mdx-spacer-stock-gasket-oem-shift-knob-754035/
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/3g-parts-mdx-spacer-stock-gasket-oem-shift-knob-754035/
11-29-2009, 10:48 PM
#704
Former Whyner
12-01-2009, 02:02 PM
#706
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
I mean, because are they only wider on the Malifold side? Or also on the Head sides?
If wider on the head side as well, thats VERY interesting because may indicate some room for performance gains with a set of 8th gen heads and runners....assuming the heads are the same CC.
12-18-2009, 09:54 AM
#713
Safety Car
--//-- RV6 IM Spacers --//--
Triple ditto batman!!!
RV6 - please consider offering a milled-down IM spacer. Milled down to fit with no hood modifications required.
You could also offer a version of it with pre-fitted direct-port NOS Foggers (6 foggers) already installed in the spacer and plumbed with the metal tubing.
Triple ditto batman!!!
RV6 - please consider offering a milled-down IM spacer. Milled down to fit with no hood modifications required.
You could also offer a version of it with pre-fitted direct-port NOS Foggers (6 foggers) already installed in the spacer and plumbed with the metal tubing.
12-18-2009, 10:26 AM
#715
Three Wheelin'
Would be a good idea! Especially for those who don't wanna cut their hood, add spacers, want to modify their engine covers to fit...
Earlier in the thread I asked how much would need to be milled off the spacer to achieve this, but no answer... so not really interested until this mod can meet the proper specs.
I hope Richie makes it happen
Earlier in the thread I asked how much would need to be milled off the spacer to achieve this, but no answer... so not really interested until this mod can meet the proper specs.
I hope Richie makes it happen
12-18-2009, 01:07 PM
#716
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
Would be a good idea! Especially for those who don't wanna cut their hood, add spacers, want to modify their engine covers to fit...
Earlier in the thread I asked how much would need to be milled off the spacer to achieve this, but no answer... so not really interested until this mod can meet the proper specs.
I hope Richie makes it happen
Earlier in the thread I asked how much would need to be milled off the spacer to achieve this, but no answer... so not really interested until this mod can meet the proper specs.
I hope Richie makes it happen
Its 7-10mm and varies by how much motor lash your car exhibits.
12-18-2009, 01:27 PM
#717
takin care of Business in
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recently i have seen a lot of people selling their MDX spacer....hard to believe all are aiming towards PnP....any drawbacks....i mean people were cutting their hood for this and now selling it off !!! ???
Gez....350 whp...damn son !!!!congrats !!!
Gez....350 whp...damn son !!!!congrats !!!
12-18-2009, 03:42 PM
#719
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^^^ recently i have seen more MDX spacers in BM than anything else....
just wanted to make sure before i throw it on
just wanted to make sure before i throw it on
12-18-2009, 03:49 PM
#720
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
Thing is, they are for sale because when you pnp your mani and/or runners its of no use to have the MDX spacer. It actually hurts your top end, as RonJonTL757 found out before he realized it couldnt be used. New he's amazed