Very interesting conversation with my transmission builder on the TL
01-26-2011, 10:52 PM
#681
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Acurazine
I hate cars, you exceeded your stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until you clear some space.
After thinking more about this, I realized my statement was inaccurate (bad pun
). If I am reading the Service Manual correctly, the ecu has control over the switches/solenoids. However, it seems that the actual line pressure is controlled by mechanical means. The pressure is primarily control by the regulator spring and the stator torque reaction arm.
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01-27-2011, 04:39 AM
#682
Intermediate
Just a follow-up from my PM last night. Last night, I said that the ECU has a lot of control over the pressure based on inputs from many sensors.
After thinking more about this, I realized my statement was inaccurate (bad pun). If I am reading the Service Manual correctly, the ecu has control over the switches/solenoids. However, it seems that the actual line pressure is controlled by mechanical means. The pressure is primarily control by the regulator spring and the stator torque reaction arm.
After thinking more about this, I realized my statement was inaccurate (bad pun
). If I am reading the Service Manual correctly, the ecu has control over the switches/solenoids. However, it seems that the actual line pressure is controlled by mechanical means. The pressure is primarily control by the regulator spring and the stator torque reaction arm.In the "shifting-between" state the pressure is controlled by the linear solenoids.
01-29-2011, 12:45 AM
#683
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I am trying to revise the controller so it can run the CPC solenoids as the ECU would at part throttle for milder shifts. And I am getting a flare between 2-3 3-4 and 4-5. My assumption is that the flare is from the trans physically disengaging a gear then engaging the next... Its like the clutch packs are like syncros on a manual trans in Hondas design. So either the ECU cuts power for a split second so you don't notice the flare, or the CPC valves when properly controlled make the shift faster, or its just the nature of the trans design?
Just wondering if anyone has any more info, the flare is really weird... not trying to threadjack off the switches focus.
-Thanks.
01-29-2011, 01:30 AM
#685
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Thanks for the welcome.
Well... I have a 01 type-s engine but its in a 94 Civic. The ECU is an aem standalone so I had to build a controller to run the transmission. When I first did the swap I tried using a base and type-s ecu and for some crazy reason both would make the car "hang" in second gear at anything above say 2/3 throttle. Once you would let off it would hit 3rd and all other shifts were fine at full throttle. This was all without any codes. I knew with the turbo I was going to do the AEM ecu and need to make something to run the trans anyway so I didn't spend too much time trying to figure it out.
I never did try unplugging the CPC valves with the stock ECU...
Oh, another crazy thing I noticed... While running the swap NA I was using my trans box to run the shift solenoids and had the CPC valves plugged in to the ECU; if I had the shifter wired to make the ECU think the car was in D2 (did this to avoid neutral rev limit and no vtec) the ECU could somehow force the trans to start in second gear even though I was controlling the shift solenoids. I wired the shifter to make the ECU think the car was in D1 all the time and then it worked fine. Just don't understand how that can happen??? Since I went to the AEM the CPC's have been unplugged.
01-29-2011, 01:58 AM
#686
Safety Car
This is a feature with the TL. When a person is in snow or ice conditions, the TL is designed to allow the driver to put the selector in D2 to force the car to begin accelerating in second gear to aid in limited traction conditions.
01-29-2011, 02:09 AM
#687
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So if the ECU was able to force 2nd gear without being connected to the shift solenoids and only having control of the CPC solenoids - they must in some way have other functions besides the main role of controlling shift firmness?
Once I wired it so the ECU thought the shifter was in D1 I had full control - I drove to the track, made some passes, and drove home all while the ECU thought the shifter was in D1...
01-29-2011, 02:58 AM
#689
Safety Car
The oem TL is know to have a software bug causing the trans to refuse to upshift from 2nd gear.
stuck in 2nd gear on the highway? (click here)
07 transmission oddity. What could have caused this (click here)
Type-S 5AT, Tranny refused to upshift! (click here)
01-29-2011, 10:11 AM
#690
Team Owner
Thread Starter
This is interesting to say the least.
In the beginning I thought it was just the revs climbing very fast that caused this. But the lightweight TL should do this too and it doesn't. So it has to be the power level or boost playing games with the MAP. I wonder since line pressure is controlled by the stator torque maybe its causing issues. This is assuming its able to rise signifigantly higner than stock which might not be possible.
In the beginning I thought it was just the revs climbing very fast that caused this. But the lightweight TL should do this too and it doesn't. So it has to be the power level or boost playing games with the MAP. I wonder since line pressure is controlled by the stator torque maybe its causing issues. This is assuming its able to rise signifigantly higner than stock which might not be possible.
01-29-2011, 10:57 AM
#691
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Libert69 has this issue excessively with the turbo... to the point that he is forced to manual shift using SS mode. Have you seen page 98 of the Turbo thread (click here) yet? Do you have any insight into what might be causing the hanging?
The oem TL is know to have a software bug causing the trans to refuse to upshift from 2nd gear.
The oem TL is know to have a software bug causing the trans to refuse to upshift from 2nd gear.
This is interesting to say the least.
In the beginning I thought it was just the revs climbing very fast that caused this. But the lightweight TL should do this too and it doesn't. So it has to be the power level or boost playing games with the MAP. I wonder since line pressure is controlled by the stator torque maybe its causing issues. This is assuming its able to rise signifigantly higner than stock which might not be possible.
In the beginning I thought it was just the revs climbing very fast that caused this. But the lightweight TL should do this too and it doesn't. So it has to be the power level or boost playing games with the MAP. I wonder since line pressure is controlled by the stator torque maybe its causing issues. This is assuming its able to rise signifigantly higner than stock which might not be possible.
The car ran a 12.90 with a stock motor - if you use that to guess how fast the revs climb, I wonder at what quarter mile time Tl's start to get the 2nd gear hang? If that makes sense?
It cant be power level, since it was stock.
It cant be boost and a MAP value messing with the ECU.
It shouldnt be torque on the stator since torque level was stock.
Almost has to be some safe mode issue with the trans???
01-29-2011, 11:27 AM
#692
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Don't take this the wrong way, but I am glad that I wasnt the only person having this issue. I am still reading alot and will check out those links. Lots of good info. Thanks.
I ran my car with a stock Type-s swap just intake and cheap headers. So stock power level with stock trans and stock ECU in a Civic. The car still did the hang. So it almost has to be some kind of an rpm climbing issue where the ECU goes into a safe mode.
The car ran a 12.90 with a stock motor - if you use that to guess how fast the revs climb, I wonder at what quarter mile time Tl's start to get the 2nd gear hang? If that makes sense?
It cant be power level, since it was stock.
It cant be boost and a MAP value messing with the ECU.
It shouldnt be torque on the stator since torque level was stock.
Almost has to be some safe mode issue with the trans???
I ran my car with a stock Type-s swap just intake and cheap headers. So stock power level with stock trans and stock ECU in a Civic. The car still did the hang. So it almost has to be some kind of an rpm climbing issue where the ECU goes into a safe mode.
The car ran a 12.90 with a stock motor - if you use that to guess how fast the revs climb, I wonder at what quarter mile time Tl's start to get the 2nd gear hang? If that makes sense?
It cant be power level, since it was stock.
It cant be boost and a MAP value messing with the ECU.
It shouldnt be torque on the stator since torque level was stock.
Almost has to be some safe mode issue with the trans???
What was your mph on the 12.90 run? This way we can take traction out of the equation unless it was spinning in second causing the rpms to shoot up. I believe Bert trapped 107 and change.
01-29-2011, 11:50 AM
#693
Intermediate
in odd gears CPC A is open and CPC B closed, in even it is the oposite
keeping A closed and B open all the time could have the effect of staying in 2nd even though the 1st solenoid combination is selected, I will try to confirm it (maybe later today, trying to decipher it from looking at the diagrams is too difficult)
01-29-2011, 03:33 PM
#694
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You just cleared uo a lot of things so thank you. Thinking back, mine has done the second gear hang only twice and it was in the rain and the rpms shot up like it was in neutral. The only thing making me think it was not rpms climbing too quick was Inaccurate's nearly stock power lightweight tl does not do it that I know of. I guess its possible his rpms don't climb as fast, I have no idea.
What was your mph on the 12.90 run? This way we can take traction out of the equation unless it was spinning in second causing the rpms to shoot up. I believe Bert trapped 107 and change.
What was your mph on the 12.90 run? This way we can take traction out of the equation unless it was spinning in second causing the rpms to shoot up. I believe Bert trapped 107 and change.
On my 12.90 run, the car was on 24.5x8-15 slicks and on the motor traction was really good. I was using the base model ECU with my trans box and it was trapping 103-105. Also interesting, the type-s ecu was much more sensitive. With the base ecu I wired it so when in D5 it would think you were in D1. The Ecu wouldnt try to shift and give you normal rev limiter and Vtec. The physical shifter was in D5 and I was using the Manual upshift and downshift for inputs to my box. Trying this setup with the type s ecu it would throw codes and get upset.
Just to be clearer, using both the base model and trying the type-s ecu (without my box) I never once got the car to go through the gears normally. If you floored it from a dead stop (street tires) it would spin through 1st shift into second correctly pull through second and bounce off the rev limiter. As soon as you back off the throttle say halfway it would then shift into third. As soon as third hits you could go back to full throttle and it would shift fine into 4th. Everytime. On street tires and even on slicks without spinning.
01-29-2011, 03:40 PM
#695
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CPC A also actuates SHIFT VALVE C (through the REVERSE CPC), and CPC B probably actuates SHIFT VALVE D (it is routed to the oposite side than where the actuator is, I don't know what exactly that means)
in odd gears CPC A is open and CPC B closed, in even it is the oposite
keeping A closed and B open all the time could have the effect of staying in 2nd even though the 1st solenoid combination is selected, I will try to confirm it (maybe later today, trying to decipher it from looking at the diagrams is too difficult)
in odd gears CPC A is open and CPC B closed, in even it is the oposite
keeping A closed and B open all the time could have the effect of staying in 2nd even though the 1st solenoid combination is selected, I will try to confirm it (maybe later today, trying to decipher it from looking at the diagrams is too difficult)
01-29-2011, 05:02 PM
#696
8th Gear
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Hey I hate cars, i wanted to see what u thought of what is going on with my car. A couple guys told me to go to this thread and see. Would like to hear ur input. My problem is I have found a problem with the 06 TL auto transmission. On the initial start up of the car after it sits unran for about 8+hrs when i start it up and take off the it revs high from first to second (abut 4 to 5 rpms) then it shifts hard into 2nd. After it goes into second sometimes it will slip rev to 4500rpms then engage hard into 3rd. Then is fine fourth and fifth(besides shfting alittle hard). Then the cycle starts over again til the car becomes "warmed up".(this only happend if i let the car sit for more then 8 hours. I can let the car sit for an hour or two and have no problems) But i have found a way to go around this. If i start the car up and let it run for 10 mins before i go to take off the car is fine. I did the 3X3 tranny fluid change.( little bit of shavings/alittle discolored fluid) The dealer is no help. They took it in and cleaned the solenoids and the car acutally did not do this...but after about a week it went right back to messing up.Was told to try to change out the pressure switches and maybe put in the type-s fluid. Any help would work. Thanks
01-30-2011, 01:29 AM
#697
Safety Car
I have put heavy (bad pun) emphasis on reducing the dynamic weight. Most readers still just don't get this.... how important and helpful that reduced dynamic weight really is. This is why I really stress it by saying that my car will handle, accelerate, and brake like a 2656 lb car. The actual static weight is estimated to be 2878 lbs. Below is the Diet thread.
Putting the TL on a diet (click here)
Regarding the rapidly rising RPM possibly causing the 2nd gear bounce - Although not track verified, I firmly believe that my car is a 13.3 or 13.4 second car if traction was not taken into consideration.
This is confirmed by data logging my MPH Vs Time, I can fully hook-up once I am in 2nd. Comparing my MPH Vs Time from 40-70, 40-80, etc., my times are comparable to cars that run 13.3 or 13.4 seconds in the 1/4 mile.
I have never experienced the 2nd hanging issue on a normal basis and I dog my car a lot. In the past 5 years that I have had my TL, I only had the 2nd to hang twice. This is similar statistics to the oem TL.
Regarding your question of 4th gear shifting quickness - Mine will do the 3-4 shift extremely quick during wot. My 2-3 shift (wot) is very quick too. My slowest shift (wot) is the 1-2 shift.
Putting the TL on a diet (click here)
Regarding the rapidly rising RPM possibly causing the 2nd gear bounce - Although not track verified, I firmly believe that my car is a 13.3 or 13.4 second car if traction was not taken into consideration.
This is confirmed by data logging my MPH Vs Time, I can fully hook-up once I am in 2nd. Comparing my MPH Vs Time from 40-70, 40-80, etc., my times are comparable to cars that run 13.3 or 13.4 seconds in the 1/4 mile.
I have never experienced the 2nd hanging issue on a normal basis and I dog my car a lot. In the past 5 years that I have had my TL, I only had the 2nd to hang twice. This is similar statistics to the oem TL.
Regarding your question of 4th gear shifting quickness - Mine will do the 3-4 shift extremely quick during wot. My 2-3 shift (wot) is very quick too. My slowest shift (wot) is the 1-2 shift.
01-30-2011, 02:26 AM
#698
Safety Car
I forgot to add that Libert69 (Bert) can accelerate (40-70 MPH) at a rate comparable to a 12.4 second car. This is based on MPH Vs Time logging also.
Because you and Bert do rip thru 2nd gear quicker than me, it is possible that I could have been avoiding this problem because I don't pull thru 2nd quick enough to trigger the hanging problem.
I will find out for sure in a few months after I start running my nitrous/methanol.
Inaccurate's Nitrous Methanol Injection System (NMI) (click here)
Because you and Bert do rip thru 2nd gear quicker than me, it is possible that I could have been avoiding this problem because I don't pull thru 2nd quick enough to trigger the hanging problem.
I will find out for sure in a few months after I start running my nitrous/methanol.
Inaccurate's Nitrous Methanol Injection System (NMI) (click here)
01-30-2011, 12:04 PM
#699
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I have put heavy (bad pun) emphasis on reducing the dynamic weight. Most readers still just don't get this.... how important and helpful that reduced dynamic weight really is. This is why I really stress it by saying that my car will handle, accelerate, and brake like a 2656 lb car. The actual static weight is estimated to be 2878 lbs. Below is the Diet thread.
Putting the TL on a diet (click here)
Regarding the rapidly rising RPM possibly causing the 2nd gear bounce - Although not track verified, I firmly believe that my car is a 13.3 or 13.4 second car if traction was not taken into consideration.
This is confirmed by data logging my MPH Vs Time, I can fully hook-up once I am in 2nd. Comparing my MPH Vs Time from 40-70, 40-80, etc., my times are comparable to cars that run 13.3 or 13.4 seconds in the 1/4 mile.
I have never experienced the 2nd hanging issue on a normal basis and I dog my car a lot. In the past 5 years that I have had my TL, I only had the 2nd to hang twice. This is similar statistics to the oem TL.
Regarding your question of 4th gear shifting quickness - Mine will do the 3-4 shift extremely quick during wot. My 2-3 shift (wot) is very quick too. My slowest shift (wot) is the 1-2 shift.
Putting the TL on a diet (click here)
Regarding the rapidly rising RPM possibly causing the 2nd gear bounce - Although not track verified, I firmly believe that my car is a 13.3 or 13.4 second car if traction was not taken into consideration.
This is confirmed by data logging my MPH Vs Time, I can fully hook-up once I am in 2nd. Comparing my MPH Vs Time from 40-70, 40-80, etc., my times are comparable to cars that run 13.3 or 13.4 seconds in the 1/4 mile.
I have never experienced the 2nd hanging issue on a normal basis and I dog my car a lot. In the past 5 years that I have had my TL, I only had the 2nd to hang twice. This is similar statistics to the oem TL.
Regarding your question of 4th gear shifting quickness - Mine will do the 3-4 shift extremely quick during wot. My 2-3 shift (wot) is very quick too. My slowest shift (wot) is the 1-2 shift.
If you think your car will accelerate like a 2600 pound car and "dog on it alot" - you should just take it to the track and see what you trap? (not saying that it a cocky way), and it does sound logical that with traction it could run a 13.4 ish time at that weight. I am stuck in northeastern Ohio and wish I was somewhere warm where tracks were open lol.
If there is an acceleration threshold where the second gear hangs, you probably are getting very close to it. Like you said, you will find out when you do your n20/meth setup.
You say your 4th gear shifts very quick and your 2-3 is faster than 1-2? Thats interesting.
Mine is the total opposite - 1-2 is the hardest 2-3 slower and 3-4 slower again. I shimmed the accumulators 1-2 the most and 3-4 the least also. And trying to hold boost(well more torque) so shifts into higher gears would make each shift softer...
The way the trans works in our cars it that for the 1-2 shift; 1st clutch stays locked and 2nd clutch locks on top of it... So there is a constant acceleration during the shift (I think stock ecu cuts power). For 2-3 shift; 1st is locked, 2nd is locked - then 2nd has to unlock (trans goes into a neutral state since 1st hold clutch can freewheel) then 3rd clutch locks. This is why my car with my trans controller hits the revlimiter between shifts 2-3, 3-4, but not 1-2... And why I think in a stock ecu application, the ecu must be cutting power between shifts... For you guys with electronic throttles, the ecu might even be backing off the throttle between shifts (many cars do). My car has a cable throttle and the standalone, so I'm thinking thats why it hits the revlimiter between shifts and cars with stock ecu don't... If thats not the case, then I am controlling the trans incorrectly.
Im trying to build another version of my controller so this is all great info.
01-30-2011, 02:38 PM
#700
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Just as a point of reference, my 1-2 is the softest shift or I should say the slowest shift. 2-3 is probably the quickest but they're all close. Mine is stock power wise with new switches and type F fluid.
That 3-4 in the video sounds brutal. It's definitely not going to last shifting like that.
That 3-4 in the video sounds brutal. It's definitely not going to last shifting like that.
01-30-2011, 02:42 PM
#701
Team Owner
Thread Starter
By dynamic vs static, you mean accounting for reductions in unsprung and rotating mass? Think I read somewhere that every 10 pounds of rotating mass (like brake rotor/wheel and tire) it can equate to something like 100 pounds sprung weight. If so, that is very significant.
If you think your car will accelerate like a 2600 pound car and "dog on it alot" - you should just take it to the track and see what you trap? (not saying that it a cocky way), and it does sound logical that with traction it could run a 13.4 ish time at that weight. I am stuck in northeastern Ohio and wish I was somewhere warm where tracks were open lol.
If there is an acceleration threshold where the second gear hangs, you probably are getting very close to it. Like you said, you will find out when you do your n20/meth setup.
You say your 4th gear shifts very quick and your 2-3 is faster than 1-2? Thats interesting.
Mine is the total opposite - 1-2 is the hardest 2-3 slower and 3-4 slower again. I shimmed the accumulators 1-2 the most and 3-4 the least also. And trying to hold boost(well more torque) so shifts into higher gears would make each shift softer...
The way the trans works in our cars it that for the 1-2 shift; 1st clutch stays locked and 2nd clutch locks on top of it... So there is a constant acceleration during the shift (I think stock ecu cuts power). For 2-3 shift; 1st is locked, 2nd is locked - then 2nd has to unlock (trans goes into a neutral state since 1st hold clutch can freewheel) then 3rd clutch locks. This is why my car with my trans controller hits the revlimiter between shifts 2-3, 3-4, but not 1-2... And why I think in a stock ecu application, the ecu must be cutting power between shifts... For you guys with electronic throttles, the ecu might even be backing off the throttle between shifts (many cars do). My car has a cable throttle and the standalone, so I'm thinking thats why it hits the revlimiter between shifts and cars with stock ecu don't... If thats not the case, then I am controlling the trans incorrectly.
Im trying to build another version of my controller so this is all great info.
If you think your car will accelerate like a 2600 pound car and "dog on it alot" - you should just take it to the track and see what you trap? (not saying that it a cocky way), and it does sound logical that with traction it could run a 13.4 ish time at that weight. I am stuck in northeastern Ohio and wish I was somewhere warm where tracks were open lol.
If there is an acceleration threshold where the second gear hangs, you probably are getting very close to it. Like you said, you will find out when you do your n20/meth setup.
You say your 4th gear shifts very quick and your 2-3 is faster than 1-2? Thats interesting.
Mine is the total opposite - 1-2 is the hardest 2-3 slower and 3-4 slower again. I shimmed the accumulators 1-2 the most and 3-4 the least also. And trying to hold boost(well more torque) so shifts into higher gears would make each shift softer...
The way the trans works in our cars it that for the 1-2 shift; 1st clutch stays locked and 2nd clutch locks on top of it... So there is a constant acceleration during the shift (I think stock ecu cuts power). For 2-3 shift; 1st is locked, 2nd is locked - then 2nd has to unlock (trans goes into a neutral state since 1st hold clutch can freewheel) then 3rd clutch locks. This is why my car with my trans controller hits the revlimiter between shifts 2-3, 3-4, but not 1-2... And why I think in a stock ecu application, the ecu must be cutting power between shifts... For you guys with electronic throttles, the ecu might even be backing off the throttle between shifts (many cars do). My car has a cable throttle and the standalone, so I'm thinking thats why it hits the revlimiter between shifts and cars with stock ecu don't... If thats not the case, then I am controlling the trans incorrectly.
Im trying to build another version of my controller so this is all great info.
The electronic throttles do cut power between shifts.
Shift timing is everything in regards to wear. 2-3 can be every bit as quick as 1-2 as long as the timing is spot on.
01-30-2011, 08:49 PM
#703
Safety Car
Link 1 (click here)
Link 2 (click here)
02-03-2011, 04:26 AM
#704
Intermediate
I think I see now how CPC c does this. C is tied to the lockup converter also isnt it? Along with shift solenoid D? I have to pull one off and look but do you know if the CPC valves are 3 way valves or 2? In the diagrams it seems like they are 2. I added 3 Pulsewidth modulated drivers to my controller - I'm thinking well guessing lower duty cycle gives higher pressure since mine shifts hard with them unplugged. I need to data-log a stock setup and decypher how Honda does it. Like you say, looking at the diagrams will drive you insane.
I thought that you have the 4spd lol. From your description of the 1st and 2nd clutches it seems that the 5spd is extended by one gear from below and the rest could be the same. Could you share your source of the documentation if you got it somewhere online? :-)
02-04-2011, 08:03 PM
#705
Here I come!
Any ideas??
I recently had my tranny rebuilt. "According" to the mechanic, they installed a new torque converter and clutch kit. After I got it back, I decided to change the pressure switches again and the outer tranny filter just to start fresh. It runs great and shifts smooth, but there's still a problem...
When I take off from a complete stop and turn at the same time, the engine revs up and the car goes nowhere. I release the gas and step on it again..sometimes it takes off and sometimes it revs up again before it actually takes off. Almost like it needs a certaint amount of time to shift. It's a 3rd Gen A/T. It doesn't do it all the time either. It has happened too while I'm already rolling at a set speed and then just gun it all of a sudden. It'll rev, but go nowhere for a sec until it finally jumps into shift. I try to let off the pedal so it won't be a rough shift when it decides to shift. Any ideas??
Thx in advance.
When I take off from a complete stop and turn at the same time, the engine revs up and the car goes nowhere. I release the gas and step on it again..sometimes it takes off and sometimes it revs up again before it actually takes off. Almost like it needs a certaint amount of time to shift. It's a 3rd Gen A/T. It doesn't do it all the time either. It has happened too while I'm already rolling at a set speed and then just gun it all of a sudden. It'll rev, but go nowhere for a sec until it finally jumps into shift. I try to let off the pedal so it won't be a rough shift when it decides to shift. Any ideas??
Thx in advance.
02-04-2011, 08:07 PM
#706
Chapter Leader (Houston)
iTrader: (7)
I recently had my tranny rebuilt. "According" to the mechanic, they installed a new torque converter and clutch kit. After I got it back, I decided to change the pressure switches again and the outer tranny filter just to start fresh. It runs great and shifts smooth, but there's still a problem...
When I take off from a complete stop and turn at the same time, the engine revs up and the car goes nowhere. I release the gas and step on it again..sometimes it takes off and sometimes it revs up again before it actually takes off. Almost like it needs a certaint amount of time to shift. It's a 3rd Gen A/T. It doesn't do it all the time either. It has happened too while I'm already rolling at a set speed and then just gun it all of a sudden. It'll rev, but go nowhere for a sec until it finally jumps into shift. I try to let off the pedal so it won't be a rough shift when it decides to shift. Any ideas??
Thx in advance.
When I take off from a complete stop and turn at the same time, the engine revs up and the car goes nowhere. I release the gas and step on it again..sometimes it takes off and sometimes it revs up again before it actually takes off. Almost like it needs a certaint amount of time to shift. It's a 3rd Gen A/T. It doesn't do it all the time either. It has happened too while I'm already rolling at a set speed and then just gun it all of a sudden. It'll rev, but go nowhere for a sec until it finally jumps into shift. I try to let off the pedal so it won't be a rough shift when it decides to shift. Any ideas??
Thx in advance.
02-04-2011, 08:07 PM
#707
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I recently had my tranny rebuilt. "According" to the mechanic, they installed a new torque converter and clutch kit. After I got it back, I decided to change the pressure switches again and the outer tranny filter just to start fresh. It runs great and shifts smooth, but there's still a problem...
When I take off from a complete stop and turn at the same time, the engine revs up and the car goes nowhere. I release the gas and step on it again..sometimes it takes off and sometimes it revs up again before it actually takes off. Almost like it needs a certaint amount of time to shift. It's a 3rd Gen A/T. It doesn't do it all the time either. It has happened too while I'm already rolling at a set speed and then just gun it all of a sudden. It'll rev, but go nowhere for a sec until it finally jumps into shift. I try to let off the pedal so it won't be a rough shift when it decides to shift. Any ideas??
Thx in advance.
When I take off from a complete stop and turn at the same time, the engine revs up and the car goes nowhere. I release the gas and step on it again..sometimes it takes off and sometimes it revs up again before it actually takes off. Almost like it needs a certaint amount of time to shift. It's a 3rd Gen A/T. It doesn't do it all the time either. It has happened too while I'm already rolling at a set speed and then just gun it all of a sudden. It'll rev, but go nowhere for a sec until it finally jumps into shift. I try to let off the pedal so it won't be a rough shift when it decides to shift. Any ideas??
Thx in advance.
02-04-2011, 11:36 PM
#708
Here I come!
I did check the fluid and i'm using Amsoil. I know it's just a matter of time before it fails again. I just wish I knew what was wrong. I count the solenoids were changed. Does that sounds like a possibility?
02-04-2011, 11:37 PM
#709
Here I come!
Meant doubt, not count
05-12-2011, 09:19 PM
#710
Finally got the switches replaced today when I took it in to the dealership for an oil change. The switches did make a little difference. Shifts from 2nd to 3rd to 4th are a little smotther and quicker. My 06 TL is sitting at 73900 miles when I got this done
06-15-2011, 02:03 PM
#712
Moved to the LOU
iTrader: (6)
The problem is they don't just go bad all at once. They get worse over time. The trans slips a little more on the shifts over time but not enough for the driver to notice until eventually you get the shudder. Replacing them as PM seems to be a very good idea.
Mine has no shudder at 74,000 miles but I'm replacing mine soon. I've noticed a bump shift over the last 10,000 miles where the shift takes longer than normal and then "bumps" when it finally engages. This is right before the shudder starts.
I've got high hopes for this fix since there is no physical problem with our transmissions.
Mine has no shudder at 74,000 miles but I'm replacing mine soon. I've noticed a bump shift over the last 10,000 miles where the shift takes longer than normal and then "bumps" when it finally engages. This is right before the shudder starts.
I've got high hopes for this fix since there is no physical problem with our transmissions.
06-15-2011, 02:11 PM
#713
Team Owner
Thread Starter
06-15-2011, 03:48 PM
#714
Suzuka Master
I recently had my tranny rebuilt. "According" to the mechanic, they installed a new torque converter and clutch kit. After I got it back, I decided to change the pressure switches again and the outer tranny filter just to start fresh. It runs great and shifts smooth, but there's still a problem...
When I take off from a complete stop and turn at the same time, the engine revs up and the car goes nowhere. I release the gas and step on it again..sometimes it takes off and sometimes it revs up again before it actually takes off. Almost like it needs a certaint amount of time to shift. It's a 3rd Gen A/T. It doesn't do it all the time either. It has happened too while I'm already rolling at a set speed and then just gun it all of a sudden. It'll rev, but go nowhere for a sec until it finally jumps into shift. I try to let off the pedal so it won't be a rough shift when it decides to shift. Any ideas??
Thx in advance.
When I take off from a complete stop and turn at the same time, the engine revs up and the car goes nowhere. I release the gas and step on it again..sometimes it takes off and sometimes it revs up again before it actually takes off. Almost like it needs a certaint amount of time to shift. It's a 3rd Gen A/T. It doesn't do it all the time either. It has happened too while I'm already rolling at a set speed and then just gun it all of a sudden. It'll rev, but go nowhere for a sec until it finally jumps into shift. I try to let off the pedal so it won't be a rough shift when it decides to shift. Any ideas??
Thx in advance.
07-14-2011, 01:06 AM
#716
New tranny at 65k
I just got my 2006 TL auto back from the dealer with a new/replacement transmission. Apparently the case had a crack in it, but I have never heard of this before. I think something went wrong with the fluid flush at the 60k interval (actually 62k), but it was starting to show slippage before that anyway.
The car now has 65k on it and the dealer said that since I didn't pay anything for the replacement, that there wasn't an extended warranty on it, only the original powertrain warranty up to 70k. First, does this sound right? Second, if so, I am thinking of keeping the "new" OEM fluid in until 70k then changing it out for either the racing fluid or whatever is currently recommended. Does this sound reasonable, or will the 5k with OEM start me down the slippage path?
Thanks,
Alex
The car now has 65k on it and the dealer said that since I didn't pay anything for the replacement, that there wasn't an extended warranty on it, only the original powertrain warranty up to 70k. First, does this sound right? Second, if so, I am thinking of keeping the "new" OEM fluid in until 70k then changing it out for either the racing fluid or whatever is currently recommended. Does this sound reasonable, or will the 5k with OEM start me down the slippage path?
Thanks,
Alex
10-05-2011, 02:44 PM
#717
Safety Car
I recently replaced my pressure switches. So, I want to post my mini review of them.
The new switches make a subtle difference in the shifting. It comes down to how sensitive a person is to changes with their car. It is similar to the thread about resetting the ECU
Resetting ECU makes me happy
(click here)
Half of the people that try it (the new switches and/or the ECU reset) love it. The other half say that they didn't feel any difference.
I am the sensitive type. I can feel the slightest change in my car. To me, the new switches made a big difference. The difference is identical to why I was always performing the ECU Reset. But now that I have replaced the switches, they are like a permanent ECU Reset on steroids. So, I don't do the ECU Reset anymore. I like the new switches so much that I plan to replace them once per year just to keep them fresh.
The difference that the new switches made (the same as for the ECU reset) is as follows.
1) Under extremely light acceleration, the trans will shift-up sooner into the next gear.
2) The throttle seems more progressive, requiring less travel to receive a given amount of acceleration.
So if you love the ECU Reset, then you will really love having new pressure switches.
The new switches make a subtle difference in the shifting. It comes down to how sensitive a person is to changes with their car. It is similar to the thread about resetting the ECU
Resetting ECU makes me happy
(click here)Half of the people that try it (the new switches and/or the ECU reset) love it. The other half say that they didn't feel any difference.
I am the sensitive type. I can feel the slightest change in my car. To me, the new switches made a big difference. The difference is identical to why I was always performing the ECU Reset. But now that I have replaced the switches, they are like a permanent ECU Reset on steroids. So, I don't do the ECU Reset anymore. I like the new switches so much that I plan to replace them once per year just to keep them fresh.
The difference that the new switches made (the same as for the ECU reset) is as follows.
1) Under extremely light acceleration, the trans will shift-up sooner into the next gear.
2) The throttle seems more progressive, requiring less travel to receive a given amount of acceleration.
So if you love the ECU Reset, then you will really love having new pressure switches.
The following 2 users liked this post by Inaccurate:
dwb993 (10-21-2011),
Izzy-Type-S (11-02-2011)
10-05-2011, 02:57 PM
#718
Suzuka Master
I just got my 2006 TL auto back from the dealer with a new/replacement transmission. Apparently the case had a crack in it, but I have never heard of this before. I think something went wrong with the fluid flush at the 60k interval (actually 62k), but it was starting to show slippage before that anyway.
The car now has 65k on it and the dealer said that since I didn't pay anything for the replacement, that there wasn't an extended warranty on it, only the original powertrain warranty up to 70k. First, does this sound right? Second, if so, I am thinking of keeping the "new" OEM fluid in until 70k then changing it out for either the racing fluid or whatever is currently recommended. Does this sound reasonable, or will the 5k with OEM start me down the slippage path?
Thanks,
Alex
The car now has 65k on it and the dealer said that since I didn't pay anything for the replacement, that there wasn't an extended warranty on it, only the original powertrain warranty up to 70k. First, does this sound right? Second, if so, I am thinking of keeping the "new" OEM fluid in until 70k then changing it out for either the racing fluid or whatever is currently recommended. Does this sound reasonable, or will the 5k with OEM start me down the slippage path?
Thanks,
Alex
10-05-2011, 04:44 PM
#719
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Pressure switches, non FM fluid, and flaring all go hand in hand. It's not the fluid directly causing the flares, it's a symptom of the switches. I won't discuss further because no one will read/comprehend it anyway. Something to think about.
