Very interesting conversation with my transmission builder on the TL
07-12-2012, 05:01 PM
#762
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
^No, it's time for a new transmission.
07-12-2012, 05:37 PM
#763
Team Owner
Thread Starter
The damage is done. The swiches won't help if it's already slipping, they will help prevent the wear that causes slipping. Your only bet if you want to attempt to get a few more miles out of it is to dump your fluid and do a 3x3 of Type F fluid, the $2 cheapest fluid you can find at an autoparts store. Depending on how bad it is, the fluid can get a little extra life out of the trans if you need to save up for a new one. If it's really bad, the fluid won't make a difference.
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3.2TLc (09-01-2014)
07-12-2012, 09:23 PM
#764
The damage is done. The swiches won't help if it's already slipping, they will help prevent the wear that causes slipping. Your only bet if you want to attempt to get a few more miles out of it is to dump your fluid and do a 3x3 of Type F fluid, the $2 cheapest fluid you can find at an autoparts store. Depending on how bad it is, the fluid can get a little extra life out of the trans if you need to save up for a new one. If it's really bad, the fluid won't make a difference.
I had an Accord with this same engine and transmission that was slipping so bad on the 2-3 upshift that sometimes it would not even shift at all and would act as if it just dropped into neutral. The new Shift Pressure Switches and changing over to Type-F transmission fluid did help but it still was very bad. I was able to adjust the B Solenoid enough that the transmission shifted just like new. To show how bad the low line pressure was I had to end up turning the B Solenoid a full turn and a half when you really should not be turning it more than a 1/4 turn. The A Solenoid I could only turn 1/4 before unwanted shift patterns started to happen such as downshifting into 1st before coming to a stop. I spent many days adjusting and readjusting in order to get what I felt was the ideal shift patterns for the Accord that had 183,000 miles on it. In the end I preferred the shift patterns better than when the car was new. Read the thread below to get the information you will need if you attempt this.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/transmission-solenoids-adjustment-728370/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63999753@N04/7559376662/http://www.flickr.com/photos/63999753@N04/7559376662/
.
Last edited by Jaster; 07-12-2012 at 09:29 PM.
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3.2TLc (09-01-2014)
09-17-2012, 06:07 PM
#765
Instructor
So I haven't posted here in quite some time, but...I'm worried I'm seeing my first tranmission issues.
Bought my 06 at 74k miles and immediately did the pressure switches and 3X3 of Redline ATF. Had no issues whatsoever. I'm now at almost 100k miles and starting to notice what I think is a slight transmission slip going from 3rd to 4th gear. However, it only happens at higher RPMs I believe.
I took a video of it, happens around 10 seconds.
So am I in trouble? I'm going to replace the switches and do another Redline ATF drain and fill.
Bought my 06 at 74k miles and immediately did the pressure switches and 3X3 of Redline ATF. Had no issues whatsoever. I'm now at almost 100k miles and starting to notice what I think is a slight transmission slip going from 3rd to 4th gear. However, it only happens at higher RPMs I believe.
I took a video of it, happens around 10 seconds.
So am I in trouble? I'm going to replace the switches and do another Redline ATF drain and fill.
09-17-2012, 08:44 PM
#766
Instructor
So I haven't posted here in quite some time, but...I'm worried I'm seeing my first tranmission issues.
Bought my 06 at 74k miles and immediately did the pressure switches and 3X3 of Redline ATF. Had no issues whatsoever. I'm now at almost 100k miles and starting to notice what I think is a slight transmission slip going from 3rd to 4th gear. However, it only happens at higher RPMs I believe.
I took a video of it, happens around 10 seconds.
http://youtu.be/sxbXXUUjKu0
So am I in trouble? I'm going to replace the switches and do another Redline ATF drain and fill.
Bought my 06 at 74k miles and immediately did the pressure switches and 3X3 of Redline ATF. Had no issues whatsoever. I'm now at almost 100k miles and starting to notice what I think is a slight transmission slip going from 3rd to 4th gear. However, it only happens at higher RPMs I believe.
I took a video of it, happens around 10 seconds.
http://youtu.be/sxbXXUUjKu0
So am I in trouble? I'm going to replace the switches and do another Redline ATF drain and fill.
09-17-2012, 09:55 PM
#767
Instructor
That looked like the famous flair from the 3x3 of redline racing (type-f). If that's what you have, just do a 1x3 with Redline D-4. It will add a little slipperiness. My take on the flair, which happened to me, was that after about 15-20k, the ATF gains grip, maybe from using up detergents, and holds onto the clutches a little longer. I don't think it damages the AT, but I did a 1x3 with D4 and it went away and had run great for 15k miles or so. I'll probably do 2-D4, 1-TypeF in my 1x3's.
09-17-2012, 10:31 PM
#768
Instructor
The issue came for around half the people IIRC, from 10k to 30k after the 3x3. You'll have some people who it never happened to, so they dismiss it. But for those of us it happened to, using a mixture of D4 and Type-F has shown to be better. D4 alone is a great product for our vehicles, but the type-F may reduce wear. I feel like subbing 1 bottle with Type-F in a D4 1x3, seems like a good, safe way to run it.
09-17-2012, 10:56 PM
#769
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Fuck I hate transmission threads. Don't run the type F.
I dismiss nothing but I also know that it's impossible to have a "flair" with type F that's solved by running a "slipperier" fluid. The so called "flair" is most likely indicative of a larger pending failure that no one investigates so the true cause of the problem is never found and the fluid gets the blame. The most likely cause is bad shift timing but it could be anything.
People seem to forget that many people switched to Type F because their transmissions were on the verge of failure . The fluid bought them a bunch of time and when the trans started acting up again, many, many miles later the fluid gets the blame.
People throw around crazy numbers such as hleapha's post above like half the people experienced problems with Type F. Who are you to make such claims? It was a handful of people who made this claim, a very small percent of type F users. So again, I'm done helping a bunch of ingrates that don't have the intelligence to troubleshoot, only to blindly point the finger. Even the FACTORY switch replacement has been blamed for failures before.
If I ever get the "flair" in my trans with 110,000 miles on it with straight Type F I'll figure out the cause and come up with a cure but there's not a chance I'll make the mistake of posting any info on this board again. Same goes for line pressure, I finally successfully raised overall line pressure for better reliability in every gear and better holding power on highly modded 5at TLs even on stock fluid but if there's one failure on a 500,000 mile transmission it will get the blame. You guys are on your own.
I dismiss nothing but I also know that it's impossible to have a "flair" with type F that's solved by running a "slipperier" fluid. The so called "flair" is most likely indicative of a larger pending failure that no one investigates so the true cause of the problem is never found and the fluid gets the blame. The most likely cause is bad shift timing but it could be anything.
People seem to forget that many people switched to Type F because their transmissions were on the verge of failure . The fluid bought them a bunch of time and when the trans started acting up again, many, many miles later the fluid gets the blame.
People throw around crazy numbers such as hleapha's post above like half the people experienced problems with Type F. Who are you to make such claims? It was a handful of people who made this claim, a very small percent of type F users. So again, I'm done helping a bunch of ingrates that don't have the intelligence to troubleshoot, only to blindly point the finger. Even the FACTORY switch replacement has been blamed for failures before.
If I ever get the "flair" in my trans with 110,000 miles on it with straight Type F I'll figure out the cause and come up with a cure but there's not a chance I'll make the mistake of posting any info on this board again. Same goes for line pressure, I finally successfully raised overall line pressure for better reliability in every gear and better holding power on highly modded 5at TLs even on stock fluid but if there's one failure on a 500,000 mile transmission it will get the blame. You guys are on your own.
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3.2TLc (09-01-2014)
09-18-2012, 05:45 AM
#770
Instructor
Fuck I hate transmission threads. Don't run the type F.
I dismiss nothing but I also know that it's impossible to have a "flair" with type F that's solved by running a "slipperier" fluid. The so called "flair" is most likely indicative of a larger pending failure that no one investigates so the true cause of the problem is never found and the fluid gets the blame. The most likely cause is bad shift timing but it could be anything.
People seem to forget that many people switched to Type F because their transmissions were on the verge of failure . The fluid bought them a bunch of time and when the trans started acting up again, many, many miles later the fluid gets the blame.
People throw around crazy numbers such as hleapha's post above like half the people experienced problems with Type F. Who are you to make such claims? It was a handful of people who made this claim, a very small percent of type F users. So again, I'm done helping a bunch of ingrates that don't have the intelligence to troubleshoot, only to blindly point the finger. Even the FACTORY switch replacement has been blamed for failures before.
If I ever get the "flair" in my trans with 110,000 miles on it with straight Type F I'll figure out the cause and come up with a cure but there's not a chance I'll make the mistake of posting any info on this board again. Same goes for line pressure, I finally successfully raised overall line pressure for better reliability in every gear and better holding power on highly modded 5at TLs even on stock fluid but if there's one failure on a 500,000 mile transmission it will get the blame. You guys are on your own.
I dismiss nothing but I also know that it's impossible to have a "flair" with type F that's solved by running a "slipperier" fluid. The so called "flair" is most likely indicative of a larger pending failure that no one investigates so the true cause of the problem is never found and the fluid gets the blame. The most likely cause is bad shift timing but it could be anything.
People seem to forget that many people switched to Type F because their transmissions were on the verge of failure . The fluid bought them a bunch of time and when the trans started acting up again, many, many miles later the fluid gets the blame.
People throw around crazy numbers such as hleapha's post above like half the people experienced problems with Type F. Who are you to make such claims? It was a handful of people who made this claim, a very small percent of type F users. So again, I'm done helping a bunch of ingrates that don't have the intelligence to troubleshoot, only to blindly point the finger. Even the FACTORY switch replacement has been blamed for failures before.
If I ever get the "flair" in my trans with 110,000 miles on it with straight Type F I'll figure out the cause and come up with a cure but there's not a chance I'll make the mistake of posting any info on this board again. Same goes for line pressure, I finally successfully raised overall line pressure for better reliability in every gear and better holding power on highly modded 5at TLs even on stock fluid but if there's one failure on a 500,000 mile transmission it will get the blame. You guys are on your own.
So are you saying my fears are justified and that I'm simply going to lose my transmission? I've been happily running Type 4 and new switches from 74k to 99k miles and just now seeing a slight flair. I'm not blaming anything at all, but merely trying to figure out if there is anything I can do. More Type F? New switches? Both? Or am I doomed?
09-18-2012, 07:07 AM
#771
I and many others here are very thankful for the contributions that IHC has given to Acurazine. From my experience he has been right on from the start and I continue to enjoy my TL thanks to him.
09-18-2012, 07:15 PM
#772
Instructor
Fuck I hate transmission threads. Don't run the type F.
I dismiss nothing but I also know that it's impossible to have a "flair" with type F that's solved by running a "slipperier" fluid. The so called "flair" is most likely indicative of a larger pending failure that no one investigates so the true cause of the problem is never found and the fluid gets the blame. The most likely cause is bad shift timing but it could be anything.
People seem to forget that many people switched to Type F because their transmissions were on the verge of failure . The fluid bought them a bunch of time and when the trans started acting up again, many, many miles later the fluid gets the blame.
People throw around crazy numbers such as hleapha's post above like half the people experienced problems with Type F. Who are you to make such claims? It was a handful of people who made this claim, a very small percent of type F users. So again, I'm done helping a bunch of ingrates that don't have the intelligence to troubleshoot, only to blindly point the finger. Even the FACTORY switch replacement has been blamed for failures before.
If I ever get the "flair" in my trans with 110,000 miles on it with straight Type F I'll figure out the cause and come up with a cure but there's not a chance I'll make the mistake of posting any info on this board again. Same goes for line pressure, I finally successfully raised overall line pressure for better reliability in every gear and better holding power on highly modded 5at TLs even on stock fluid but if there's one failure on a 500,000 mile transmission it will get the blame. You guys are on your own.
I dismiss nothing but I also know that it's impossible to have a "flair" with type F that's solved by running a "slipperier" fluid. The so called "flair" is most likely indicative of a larger pending failure that no one investigates so the true cause of the problem is never found and the fluid gets the blame. The most likely cause is bad shift timing but it could be anything.
People seem to forget that many people switched to Type F because their transmissions were on the verge of failure . The fluid bought them a bunch of time and when the trans started acting up again, many, many miles later the fluid gets the blame.
People throw around crazy numbers such as hleapha's post above like half the people experienced problems with Type F. Who are you to make such claims? It was a handful of people who made this claim, a very small percent of type F users. So again, I'm done helping a bunch of ingrates that don't have the intelligence to troubleshoot, only to blindly point the finger. Even the FACTORY switch replacement has been blamed for failures before.
If I ever get the "flair" in my trans with 110,000 miles on it with straight Type F I'll figure out the cause and come up with a cure but there's not a chance I'll make the mistake of posting any info on this board again. Same goes for line pressure, I finally successfully raised overall line pressure for better reliability in every gear and better holding power on highly modded 5at TLs even on stock fluid but if there's one failure on a 500,000 mile transmission it will get the blame. You guys are on your own.
The basic term troubleshooting is finding a problem and logically backing into the solution. If I'm getting a flair after 15k and replace a percentage with new redline D4 and it goes away, you can draw different conclusions from that, BUT you have to draw a conclusion. Well, I don't see any way around logically saying that the fluid was not an issue. In 15k could the same problem arise? Sure, but STILL a repeating the cure would still point to the fluid.
You have done a lot of good research on the subject, but you shouldn't power others to believe your opinions on the matter are absolute. It really turns a discussion into some weird car-thread dictatorship. I run Redline motor oil and ATF and really like the fluid. I know more about the transmission in these car b/c of you and a few others. Maybe I'm different from most others, but I certainly think independently and troubleshoot efficiently. I've worked on cars since I was 14 and have made plenty of mistakes. Frankly, I haven't really come across something I couldn't solve even if they were of my own doing. These threads can be used as very informative but people need to realize their capabilities and the risk involved. I don't think I have lead anyone astray with my comments.
Last edited by hleapha; 09-18-2012 at 07:19 PM.
09-27-2012, 08:49 PM
#773
Instructor
I just thought I'd provide an update here...
I did a 1X3 of D4 this weekend (I originally did a 3X3 of Redline Racing 25k miles ago). During my first couple drives my flare still existed so I just assumed I was out of luck. However, it's been a couple days and my symptom is now gone. I guess I needed to drive through the gears a few more times.
Note: This is not scientific at all. This is not an endorsement for or against any ATF. It could have simply been that any fresh ATF would have helped me. I just felt compelled to share this.
I did a 1X3 of D4 this weekend (I originally did a 3X3 of Redline Racing 25k miles ago). During my first couple drives my flare still existed so I just assumed I was out of luck. However, it's been a couple days and my symptom is now gone. I guess I needed to drive through the gears a few more times.
Note: This is not scientific at all. This is not an endorsement for or against any ATF. It could have simply been that any fresh ATF would have helped me. I just felt compelled to share this.
09-28-2012, 06:46 AM
#774
Instructor
I just thought I'd provide an update here...
I did a 1X3 of D4 this weekend (I originally did a 3X3 of Redline Racing 25k miles ago). During my first couple drives my flare still existed so I just assumed I was out of luck. However, it's been a couple days and my symptom is now gone. I guess I needed to drive through the gears a few more times.
Note: This is not scientific at all. This is not an endorsement for or against any ATF. It could have simply been that any fresh ATF would have helped me. I just felt compelled to share this.
I did a 1X3 of D4 this weekend (I originally did a 3X3 of Redline Racing 25k miles ago). During my first couple drives my flare still existed so I just assumed I was out of luck. However, it's been a couple days and my symptom is now gone. I guess I needed to drive through the gears a few more times.
Note: This is not scientific at all. This is not an endorsement for or against any ATF. It could have simply been that any fresh ATF would have helped me. I just felt compelled to share this.
Good to hear. I'm a person that is going to try anything before replacing a AT. I'll even let it slip until it is undrivable before I do a change-out. As unscientific as this is, I agree that there seems to be something about the freshness of the fluid. You could have probably done a 1x3 with Type-F and gotten the same if not better results. Only time will tell. The flair itself, not to be confused with a slip, does seem to be something in the timing like IHC said, but something is causing the change.
09-28-2012, 02:10 PM
#775
Level: Noob
iTrader: (1)
Does anyone know if the type-f would cause a hard bump from 1-2 upshift? Usually is a significantly harder shift when the car is cold. Not sure if this thread is a good place to ask, but I didn't want to start a new thread and get hounded for it.
09-28-2012, 05:04 PM
#776
Instructor
Yes, that's normal. The clutches grip better so there is actually less wear but also less comfort.
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Mrtastygoody (09-29-2012)
09-30-2012, 11:05 PM
#778
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Many people have come back after using Type-F with this issue. I didn't do a true poll nor did you, so neither know what percentage of people had issues or even know how to detect issues. You have to accept the premise that it is happening with some people and seemingly all of those people did a 3x3 with Type-F. Is that statement universally true? I don't know but it applied to me and seemed to with many others. You are dismissing the premise when you say that it is impossible. Be careful when you use those words.
The basic term troubleshooting is finding a problem and logically backing into the solution. If I'm getting a flair after 15k and replace a percentage with new redline D4 and it goes away, you can draw different conclusions from that, BUT you have to draw a conclusion. Well, I don't see any way around logically saying that the fluid was not an issue. In 15k could the same problem arise? Sure, but STILL a repeating the cure would still point to the fluid.
You have done a lot of good research on the subject, but you shouldn't power others to believe your opinions on the matter are absolute. It really turns a discussion into some weird car-thread dictatorship. I run Redline motor oil and ATF and really like the fluid. I know more about the transmission in these car b/c of you and a few others. Maybe I'm different from most others, but I certainly think independently and troubleshoot efficiently. I've worked on cars since I was 14 and have made plenty of mistakes. Frankly, I haven't really come across something I couldn't solve even if they were of my own doing. These threads can be used as very informative but people need to realize their capabilities and the risk involved. I don't think I have lead anyone astray with my comments.
The basic term troubleshooting is finding a problem and logically backing into the solution. If I'm getting a flair after 15k and replace a percentage with new redline D4 and it goes away, you can draw different conclusions from that, BUT you have to draw a conclusion. Well, I don't see any way around logically saying that the fluid was not an issue. In 15k could the same problem arise? Sure, but STILL a repeating the cure would still point to the fluid.
You have done a lot of good research on the subject, but you shouldn't power others to believe your opinions on the matter are absolute. It really turns a discussion into some weird car-thread dictatorship. I run Redline motor oil and ATF and really like the fluid. I know more about the transmission in these car b/c of you and a few others. Maybe I'm different from most others, but I certainly think independently and troubleshoot efficiently. I've worked on cars since I was 14 and have made plenty of mistakes. Frankly, I haven't really come across something I couldn't solve even if they were of my own doing. These threads can be used as very informative but people need to realize their capabilities and the risk involved. I don't think I have lead anyone astray with my comments.
Yes, it is impossible for a flair (as in slippage allowing the engine to rev up) to happen with a higher friction level and not with less friction.
Read my words. I did not say there's not an issue but you might be looking at the wrong component. There is an issue but it's not the fluid itself. There's a transmission issue that the fluid is highlighting. It is not an actual flair as in slippage causing the rpms to shoot up. It's a bind with one of the lower gears that would normally just slip and go unnoticed with the stock fluid but still causing wear. With less FM, the bind is actually causing the engine rpms to climb instead of slipping unnoticed. It's pointing to a transmission problem and it's not caused by the fluid. So there's your logical way of saying the fluid is not the culprit, it's making a transmission problem more obvious. I'm still running 100% Type F fluid, waiting for the issue to happen to me. 111,000 miles, nearly 40,000 miles on the Type F. Instead of bitching about the fluid, I will find the cure, don't worry. Sometimes you get the symptom mixed up with the cause.
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3.2TLc (09-01-2014)
09-30-2012, 11:07 PM
#779
Team Owner
Thread Starter
That is not the case most of the time. Myself along with others experienced but better comfort with the Type F fluid. As I've said a hundred times that TL develops a bump shift with the factory fluid and especially with the old switches. A quicker shift that gets rid of this bump shift not only reduces transmission wear but it also is more comfortable, making shifts barely noticeable to the driver.
10-11-2012, 09:35 PM
#780
Another thumbs up here from the sensor change on my 04 TL 5AT with 84k(I've owned since 44k). I was occasionally experiencing the shudder at certain lowspeed 3-4 shifts, so on Monday I installed the new sensors.
The shuddering was barely detectable Monday night after the change and actually seems like it has improved more after driving the car these past couple days. Knock on wood, but either I'm not hitting the trouble speed/rpm or the sensors really have made that much of a difference.
I also have a case of Redline Type F and a new ATF filter waiting to go in tomorrow, although from reading I think I'm going to do a 2x3 and order some D4 for the last drain and fill. Sound like a good plan?
The shuddering was barely detectable Monday night after the change and actually seems like it has improved more after driving the car these past couple days. Knock on wood, but either I'm not hitting the trouble speed/rpm or the sensors really have made that much of a difference.
I also have a case of Redline Type F and a new ATF filter waiting to go in tomorrow, although from reading I think I'm going to do a 2x3 and order some D4 for the last drain and fill. Sound like a good plan?
10-12-2012, 07:47 AM
#781
Instructor
No, just a handful of people had any issues. There are a TON of people running the Type F fluid.
Yes, it is impossible for a flair (as in slippage allowing the engine to rev up) to happen with a higher friction level and not with less friction.
Read my words. I did not say there's not an issue but you might be looking at the wrong component. There is an issue but it's not the fluid itself. There's a transmission issue that the fluid is highlighting. It is not an actual flair as in slippage causing the rpms to shoot up. It's a bind with one of the lower gears that would normally just slip and go unnoticed with the stock fluid but still causing wear. With less FM, the bind is actually causing the engine rpms to climb instead of slipping unnoticed. It's pointing to a transmission problem and it's not caused by the fluid. So there's your logical way of saying the fluid is not the culprit, it's making a transmission problem more obvious. I'm still running 100% Type F fluid, waiting for the issue to happen to me. 111,000 miles, nearly 40,000 miles on the Type F. Instead of bitching about the fluid, I will find the cure, don't worry. Sometimes you get the symptom mixed up with the cause.
Yes, it is impossible for a flair (as in slippage allowing the engine to rev up) to happen with a higher friction level and not with less friction.
Read my words. I did not say there's not an issue but you might be looking at the wrong component. There is an issue but it's not the fluid itself. There's a transmission issue that the fluid is highlighting. It is not an actual flair as in slippage causing the rpms to shoot up. It's a bind with one of the lower gears that would normally just slip and go unnoticed with the stock fluid but still causing wear. With less FM, the bind is actually causing the engine rpms to climb instead of slipping unnoticed. It's pointing to a transmission problem and it's not caused by the fluid. So there's your logical way of saying the fluid is not the culprit, it's making a transmission problem more obvious. I'm still running 100% Type F fluid, waiting for the issue to happen to me. 111,000 miles, nearly 40,000 miles on the Type F. Instead of bitching about the fluid, I will find the cure, don't worry. Sometimes you get the symptom mixed up with the cause.
10-12-2012, 09:56 AM
#782
Team Owner
Thread Starter
That sounds like a reasonable explaination. I certainly agree that the fluid itself is not a failure point. I was saying 'causing' the problem, but 'highlighting' or 'exposing' the problem is probably more appropriate. Thinking of other gears interacting makes sense b/c this is not your typical transmission slip like my old F-150 that would try to go to 4th but slip, sputter, and shoot up my RPM like I'm cruising in N. However, do you think the Type-F gains dynamic friction properties as it ages? Perhaps as I have mentioned, losing detergents? I say this b/c it would explain why new TypeF doesn't expose the problem, but 10k mi into the interval, it can be felt.
10-24-2012, 03:13 PM
#783
Thanks IHC for all of the information, you've spent a ton of time helping others!
I have an AT 2004 TL that I bought in '07 with 18K miles. Up until 2008 when the warranty expired, I was reading this forum religiously trying to make sure I was getting everything that could be a problem covered under warranty. One of the times I brought in the car while it was still under-warranty, I did explain to them that there seemed to be a shudder between 3rd & 4th gear, especially when going up hill. They said they couldn't replicate it and made it seem like it was just a normal thing. Since then, I've just done the normal maintenance...M1 Oil & Filter Change, Tires Rotated, and Alignments.
The shudder has continued up until now, 87K miles. I'm not sure its gotten any worse, if so, not much worse (maybe its just me paying closer attention). The shudder happens when slowly accelerating between 3rd & 4th, especially uphill. If I accelerate faster, there are no issues at all. After a slow week at work, I decided to research this and was alarmed at how many people are affected by this. I hope there isn't too much damage done already. How come Acura couldn't be held liable for an issue that seems to be fairly common? I did try to bring it to their attention and yet they blew it off like it wasn't a big deal.
Anyways, I have 2 new pressure switches and gaskets coming my way. And I'll get to work this weekend or next weekend on that part.
As far as replacing/flushing ATF, I have yet to do that. I'm not sure if the MM has popped up with that message or maybe I inadvertently ignored it (my dad says he rarely has changed TF in cars and they have lasted for a lonnnng time, so it was a surprise to him that it was this common in a TL). Is the 3x3 exactly as it sounds? Three, 3 quart transmission fluid drain/replaces? Is it bad to just do 1 3 quart one at a time and do 1 each oil change that comes up in the next year? From the reading, it sounds like Red Line D4 is the way to go, $11/qt on Amazon. Is this a fairly easy job for a DIY? I change my own oil & brake pads but haven't touched anything related to the transmission before.
Lastly, what is the difference between 'shuddering' and 'slipping', or is there one?
I have an AT 2004 TL that I bought in '07 with 18K miles. Up until 2008 when the warranty expired, I was reading this forum religiously trying to make sure I was getting everything that could be a problem covered under warranty. One of the times I brought in the car while it was still under-warranty, I did explain to them that there seemed to be a shudder between 3rd & 4th gear, especially when going up hill. They said they couldn't replicate it and made it seem like it was just a normal thing. Since then, I've just done the normal maintenance...M1 Oil & Filter Change, Tires Rotated, and Alignments.
The shudder has continued up until now, 87K miles. I'm not sure its gotten any worse, if so, not much worse (maybe its just me paying closer attention). The shudder happens when slowly accelerating between 3rd & 4th, especially uphill. If I accelerate faster, there are no issues at all. After a slow week at work, I decided to research this and was alarmed at how many people are affected by this. I hope there isn't too much damage done already. How come Acura couldn't be held liable for an issue that seems to be fairly common? I did try to bring it to their attention and yet they blew it off like it wasn't a big deal.
Anyways, I have 2 new pressure switches and gaskets coming my way. And I'll get to work this weekend or next weekend on that part.
As far as replacing/flushing ATF, I have yet to do that. I'm not sure if the MM has popped up with that message or maybe I inadvertently ignored it (my dad says he rarely has changed TF in cars and they have lasted for a lonnnng time, so it was a surprise to him that it was this common in a TL). Is the 3x3 exactly as it sounds? Three, 3 quart transmission fluid drain/replaces? Is it bad to just do 1 3 quart one at a time and do 1 each oil change that comes up in the next year? From the reading, it sounds like Red Line D4 is the way to go, $11/qt on Amazon. Is this a fairly easy job for a DIY? I change my own oil & brake pads but haven't touched anything related to the transmission before.
Lastly, what is the difference between 'shuddering' and 'slipping', or is there one?
10-24-2012, 07:48 PM
#784
Suzuka Master
^^ a 1x3 at each oil change is a great way to introduce the new fluid.
11-01-2012, 02:36 PM
#785
Here I come!
Question....
If my ATF is low and I drain it, would it only drain partial fluid or 3 quarts? I bought 3 quarts cause I originally wanted to do a drain and fill, but it was leaking due to a worn output shaft seal which I replaced like a week ago. Just got the fluid in and I don't know if I should do a drain and fill or just top it off.
11-01-2012, 02:43 PM
#786
Instructor
If my ATF is low and I drain it, would it only drain partial fluid or 3 quarts? I bought 3 quarts cause I originally wanted to do a drain and fill, but it was leaking due to a worn output shaft seal which I replaced like a week ago. Just got the fluid in and I don't know if I should do a drain and fill or just top it off.
I would think that the fluid loss would be in the drain pan after you run the car. The internals would hold the same amount of fluid because of the pump. So, if you drain out the pan, you should drain out 3 qts minus ATF loss. So adding 3 qts back would restore your oil level to normal. Maybe someone can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure the system is designed this way.
11-02-2012, 07:44 AM
#788
Many thanks to all of the information provided in this thread. You guys have saved alot of owners a bunch of $$$!
04 TL here with 87K miles and its had a shudder between 3rd/4th gear since when I bought the car with 18K. Replaced the pressure switches on Sunday and I think it resolved the shudder issue. The shudder used to happen frequently when going uphill between 30-40 mph, and after the new pressure switches, it seems to stay in 3rd gear a little longer and then smoothly shift to 4th. Hope it doesn't come back!!
Next project is replacing ATF fluid. I'd like to start by doing a 1x3. Which fluid do you all recommend?
Redline D4
Redline Racing
I've seen some back and forth between the two. I'm just looking for the best fluid to keep my car reliable!
Thanks again.
04 TL here with 87K miles and its had a shudder between 3rd/4th gear since when I bought the car with 18K. Replaced the pressure switches on Sunday and I think it resolved the shudder issue. The shudder used to happen frequently when going uphill between 30-40 mph, and after the new pressure switches, it seems to stay in 3rd gear a little longer and then smoothly shift to 4th. Hope it doesn't come back!!
Next project is replacing ATF fluid. I'd like to start by doing a 1x3. Which fluid do you all recommend?
Redline D4
Redline Racing
I've seen some back and forth between the two. I'm just looking for the best fluid to keep my car reliable!
Thanks again.
11-10-2012, 03:19 AM
#789
Another big thanks to IHC and everyone else for info on these sensors. I remember reading this thread a couple years ago and not sure why the hell I didn't do it then, but I just did mine yesterday in my 2008 base TL. It has 94k now and I have always had the fluid changed regularly at the dealer. Never really had any trans issues that I have noticed, but after changing these sensors there is a difference in 3rd and 4th gear. Shifting is smoother and just overall feels clean. Also the minor hesitation when shifting that was there before is now gone. Possibly the most satisfying $125 I have spent on my car.
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JCash23 (06-25-2022)
11-10-2012, 08:14 PM
#790
... Detergents can act as FM. Maybe it's close to having this problem when new and as you said, when they begin to wear out it's enough to cause the flare. ... I need to know if it feels like tapping the brakes when it happens or if the car just stops accelerating. ...
Here is one data point, for a 2009 RDX with 5AT. Not a TL of course, but I had all of the same problems with ‘flare’, and the same ‘solution’. Perhaps this will help with a diagnosis, as I would really like to know what happened.
My flares felt like a slight slowing (of vehicle speed), not an abrupt one (as if tapping the brakes). Or more like a decrease in acceleration, not necessarily a decrease in actual speed. The flare lasted about 1-second. The 2-3 shift flared 500rpm. The 3-4 shift flared 1000rpm. The ‘length’ and ‘amount’ (rmp) of the flares, seemed about the same, regardless of the throttle setting.
The very first flare occurred at a freeway on-ramp, a slight upward incline, at about 1/4-throttle. I never tried more than 3/4-throttle. After about more 30 miles, I began to experience a very slight 1-2 shift flare, after a fairly hard start-shift (first part of the shift). Not sure just how to describe the feel of the 1-2 shift.
Prior to the first flare, the trans had been exhibiting more-and-more harder shifts for about 1-week or 100 miles. This was especially true of the 1-2 shift, not so much for the 2-3 shift or 3-4 shift.
After about 60 miles of the flaring, I did a single drain/ fill with Honda DW-1 ATF. The flaring stopped after about 30 more miles.
At the time of the first flare, the trans contained 8 quarts = 4.3qts of RL racing + 2.7qts of RL LW + 1qt of Honda Z1. The RDX trans holds 8.2 total quarts. A single drain will remove 4+ quarts. So instead of a 3x3, you get a 3x4 for drain/ fills. And with an RDX, after a 3x4 you get 87.5% approximately new fluid (7qts), leaving 1-quart of old fluid.
MY RDX ATF-FLUID REPLACEMENT LOG:
The trans contained 100% Honda Z1, from zero to about 18K miles. This included the following:
3x4 at 8K miles with Z1
1x4 at 10K miles with Z1
2x4 at 15K miles with Z1
At 17,800 miles I did a 3x4 with 62% RedLine Racing and 38% RedLine LW (light-weight).
(gives 7qts of RL mix + 1qt of Z1)
At 21,200 miles I experienced the flare. I assume that my flare started after only 3K miles, rather than the higher mileage experienced by others, because I had a higher percentage of RL racing fluid, than a 3x3 would give in a TL trans.
At 21,260 miles I did the following:
1x4 with DW-1, flaring symptom stopped (mostly)
20 miles later:
1x4 with RL D4, flaring stopped completely
(gives 4qts D4 + 2qts DW-1 + about 2qts RL racing mix)
30 miles later:
1x4 with RL D4
(gives 6qts D4 + 1qt DW-1 + 1qt RL racing mix)
130 miles later
1x4 with 1qt RL racing + 1qt RL LW + 2qts RedLine D4.
(gives 5qts D4 + 2.5qts RL racing mix + 0.5qt DW-1)
This last fill was run 5K miles.
1x4 at 27K miles
(gives a Current fill of 4qts D4 + 2qts RL racing + 2qts RL LW)
Current fill has been running for 3K miles. The current shift ‘feel’ is fairly crisp shifts, but nothing like the 75% or 87% RL racing mix I once was using. Basically, the current feel is not that different from what I remember of new 100% Honda Z1. But that is at part throttle. At full throttle, at 6500rpm, the current mix produces a faster/ quicker and definitely more pronounced ‘grab’ at the shift, but not what I would call ‘hard’ or harsh.
I can only do a 1-2 and 2-3 shift at full throttle, because of where I live and because I want to keep my license. The 2-3 shift occurs at around 85mph.
I am definitely interested in your comments, if any. Thanks.
===========eof
Last edited by dcmodels; 11-10-2012 at 08:18 PM.
11-11-2012, 12:23 AM
#791
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Thank you. I would say with a lot of certainty that this is not the traditional flare that you get with a slipping clutch pack. It's almost surely a bind within the transmission, a bind that would occur not matter which fluid you're using the the less FM makes it noticeable where the factory fluid would allow enough slip that the rpms don't actually rise. Thank you for this, it goes along with my theory. It's good you got the fluid out of there. While I believe the bind is still going on (it has to be if I'm right), it's better that it happens with a "slipperier" fluid than the Type F. I'm literally waiting for mine to do this, I'm not looking forward to it but at least I can try and find the cure.
Was this isolated to the 1-2 shift only? I believe it's indicative of a mechanical problem and the Type F fluid is illustrating this problem, possibly a shift timing problem. It would be nice if I can find an electronic explanation, a sensor or solenoid or switch that could cure it. If we were that lucky and we could find the cure, the Type F fluid could still be used with it's wear reducing benefits while curing yet another problem with the 5at.
Was this isolated to the 1-2 shift only? I believe it's indicative of a mechanical problem and the Type F fluid is illustrating this problem, possibly a shift timing problem. It would be nice if I can find an electronic explanation, a sensor or solenoid or switch that could cure it. If we were that lucky and we could find the cure, the Type F fluid could still be used with it's wear reducing benefits while curing yet another problem with the 5at.
02-01-2013, 01:44 PM
#792
5th Gear
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A month ago I bought a used 2011 TL (Base) with 29,000 miles on it and I just signed up to this community today. You guys have wealth of information.
I notice to problems with it which is widely discussed here.
1) Transmission shudder shifting from 2nd to 3rd
2) RPM fluctuation at 5th between 45 to 50 mph (under 1500 rpm)
I will just stick to problem (1) in this post. I patiently read through all the updates (can't say I understood all), but I conclude that I have to do two things,
1) ATF change to Redline D4 Racing or any Type F (with no FM)
2) 3rd and 4th gear pressure switch change
My concern is
1) Will an Acura dealer do Redline D4 or do only their OEM ATF?
2) I know this thread is about 3rd gen and all the part number are also for 3rd gen. Can you help me with information for 4th gen on the same issues?
I notice to problems with it which is widely discussed here.
1) Transmission shudder shifting from 2nd to 3rd
2) RPM fluctuation at 5th between 45 to 50 mph (under 1500 rpm)
I will just stick to problem (1) in this post. I patiently read through all the updates (can't say I understood all), but I conclude that I have to do two things,
1) ATF change to Redline D4 Racing or any Type F (with no FM)
2) 3rd and 4th gear pressure switch change
My concern is
1) Will an Acura dealer do Redline D4 or do only their OEM ATF?
2) I know this thread is about 3rd gen and all the part number are also for 3rd gen. Can you help me with information for 4th gen on the same issues?
02-05-2013, 11:42 AM
#793
5th Gear
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I took my 2011 FWD TL AUTO with 30k miles to Fountain Acura, Orlando with exactly same symptoms
1) Judder at 30-40 mph mainly when shifting from 3rd to 4th (in Auto mode)
2) Loud grinding noise during that time
3) RPM fluctuation (rapid drop and raise) between 45-50mph
Dealer diagnosed Torque Converter requires replacement. They ordered the part and waiting for their call.
1) Judder at 30-40 mph mainly when shifting from 3rd to 4th (in Auto mode)
2) Loud grinding noise during that time
3) RPM fluctuation (rapid drop and raise) between 45-50mph
Dealer diagnosed Torque Converter requires replacement. They ordered the part and waiting for their call.
02-05-2013, 12:00 PM
#794
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I took my 2011 FWD TL AUTO with 30k miles to Fountain Acura, Orlando with exactly same symptoms
1) Judder at 30-40 mph mainly when shifting from 3rd to 4th (in Auto mode)
2) Loud grinding noise during that time
3) RPM fluctuation (rapid drop and raise) between 45-50mph
Dealer diagnosed Torque Converter requires replacement. They ordered the part and waiting for their call.
1) Judder at 30-40 mph mainly when shifting from 3rd to 4th (in Auto mode)
2) Loud grinding noise during that time
3) RPM fluctuation (rapid drop and raise) between 45-50mph
Dealer diagnosed Torque Converter requires replacement. They ordered the part and waiting for their call.
I hear a lot of the 4gs are having converter issues, is there any speculation as to the cause?
02-13-2013, 09:25 AM
#796
5th Gear
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02-13-2013, 09:45 AM
#797
takin care of Business in
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IHC what I have read from members on here is, if they have shudder and they use Type F (non FM fluid) it only makes it worse....the minute they switch to DW1 or D4 (high in FM's) the shudder goes away....
also when they have flaking and they put in DW1 or D4 and hence adding some FM's, the symptoms are gone....
This is what I have done:
Pressure switches at 110,000 miles
Introduced Redline Type F in the transmission
1x3 at 147,000 miles
1x3 at 148,000 miles
1x3 at 149,000 miles
1x3 at 150,000 miles
I am at 168,000 miles and the shifts are starting to lag again...am planning on doing the switches again and installing an external transmission cooler and hence another 1x3 with Type F....
With this I will have done a 5x3 with redline and have ~92% of Type F in my transmission....do you think I will start getting any flaring? Should I mix a quart of D4 with the Type F ?
also when they have flaking and they put in DW1 or D4 and hence adding some FM's, the symptoms are gone....
This is what I have done:
Pressure switches at 110,000 miles
Introduced Redline Type F in the transmission
1x3 at 147,000 miles
1x3 at 148,000 miles
1x3 at 149,000 miles
1x3 at 150,000 miles
I am at 168,000 miles and the shifts are starting to lag again...am planning on doing the switches again and installing an external transmission cooler and hence another 1x3 with Type F....
With this I will have done a 5x3 with redline and have ~92% of Type F in my transmission....do you think I will start getting any flaring? Should I mix a quart of D4 with the Type F ?
02-19-2013, 04:42 AM
#798
I need help my transmission is leaking fluid. I have a 06 Acura tl automatic. I noticed the transmission slipping like the car didnt want to go. And the burning of the fluid. The car has about 139,458 miles on it. I added transmission fluid and the car moved perfectly like it didnt have any problems. But it's still leaking any suggestions? Thanks
02-19-2013, 01:46 PM
#799
takin care of Business in
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^^^ where is it leaking from? the case itself or the drain bolt (if you didnt use a crush washer and proper torque)....
02-26-2013, 10:55 PM
#800
Drifting
I hope this is not an issue with the TL but I can tell you with certainty it is with the MDX and Honda Pilot: corroded radiator ATF coolant connector ruptures and you have a total blowout of fluid.
This happened to our Pilot today- got the call from my wife that Pilot doesn't move and there's a lot of ATF on driveway. I get home and see the ATF hose to radiator is open ended with a big bib on the end of it.
I just did a search and found this has been a known issue with Pilots and MDXs apparently. I hope the TL doesn't have this issue-there does not appear to be this type of design with our ATs.
I freaked when I got that call because I did all the right stuff: 30k service cycle, 3/4 sensors, and Redline ATF. Apparently you replace the radiator, top off ATF fluid and we should be good to go- I really hope so!
Anyway, I thought I would pass this along for anybody that has a Pilot/MDX
This happened to our Pilot today- got the call from my wife that Pilot doesn't move and there's a lot of ATF on driveway. I get home and see the ATF hose to radiator is open ended with a big bib on the end of it.
I just did a search and found this has been a known issue with Pilots and MDXs apparently. I hope the TL doesn't have this issue-there does not appear to be this type of design with our ATs.
I freaked when I got that call because I did all the right stuff: 30k service cycle, 3/4 sensors, and Redline ATF. Apparently you replace the radiator, top off ATF fluid and we should be good to go- I really hope so!
Anyway, I thought I would pass this along for anybody that has a Pilot/MDX