Very interesting conversation with my transmission builder on the TL
#841
Suzuka Master
Just back from a project in Claremont, CA. 245 miles all freeway 34.5 mpg no passengers no luggage, on trip computer. highway queen. my 06 shifts just as described in post #834. to bad my average over 8K is 21MPG @ 29MPH
#842
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Sounds like a good trip LCR.. I was near Big Sur on Sunday.. I was in some shit rental so I beat it pretty good on PCH and went through Big Basin on 236/9/35. The 4 banger got about 25 mpg.. the TL would probably have been around 17.
It was autoweek at Pebble Beach.. so many 458's, Bentley's, Cali's, Gallardo's, etc.. I've never felt so poor before.
It was autoweek at Pebble Beach.. so many 458's, Bentley's, Cali's, Gallardo's, etc.. I've never felt so poor before.
#843
Mr. Detail
Honestly, I think the biggest problem with our transmissions is the Z-1 ATF. Just a single drain and fill with DW-1 was a noticeable improvement in shift quality so I did a second one. The soft (wouldn't quite call it a flare but close) part throttle 2-3 upshift is no more. At light throttle, shifts are barely perceptible now, at full throttle they are firm and quick.
If you aren't currently having any issues with the transmission (flaring, slipping, etc) its probably best to get rid of the Z-1 ATF and replace as much of it as you can with the DW-1 ATF. Then, at the very least, if you want to use Redline, Type F, etc, you won't have that crappy Z-1 working against it.
If you aren't currently having any issues with the transmission (flaring, slipping, etc) its probably best to get rid of the Z-1 ATF and replace as much of it as you can with the DW-1 ATF. Then, at the very least, if you want to use Redline, Type F, etc, you won't have that crappy Z-1 working against it.
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3.2TLc (09-01-2014)
#844
Drifting
Sounds like a good trip LCR.. I was near Big Sur on Sunday.. I was in some shit rental so I beat it pretty good on PCH and went through Big Basin on 236/9/35. The 4 banger got about 25 mpg.. the TL would probably have been around 17.
It was autoweek at Pebble Beach.. so many 458's, Bentley's, Cali's, Gallardo's, etc.. I've never felt so poor before.
It was autoweek at Pebble Beach.. so many 458's, Bentley's, Cali's, Gallardo's, etc.. I've never felt so poor before.
#845
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Mercedes was definitely there.. SRT, Ferrari, Jag, etc.. +several clubs.. it would have been nice to check out all the rides.
#846
jb2
#847
I replaced the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches replaced last month, all three of them for 07 TL base. Didn't make any difference to the little 'shudder' going around 50-60km/h. i have about 120,000km on the car.
i noticed that my wife's 08 accord, with only 40,000km is much more smooth at shifting, although sometimes you'll get the same slight 'shudder'.
so my conclusion is, F it. haha. whatever will be will be. hopefully the 'shudder' that i'm feeling is just a product of my paranoia, and it's not even what everyone is talking about. won't waste hundreds of dollars more on this, better to save up in case i need to do some bigger repair later (hopefully that won't be necessary).
=)
i noticed that my wife's 08 accord, with only 40,000km is much more smooth at shifting, although sometimes you'll get the same slight 'shudder'.
so my conclusion is, F it. haha. whatever will be will be. hopefully the 'shudder' that i'm feeling is just a product of my paranoia, and it's not even what everyone is talking about. won't waste hundreds of dollars more on this, better to save up in case i need to do some bigger repair later (hopefully that won't be necessary).
=)
#848
A J35A8 EG civic is in
I replaced the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches replaced last month, all three of them for 07 TL base. Didn't make any difference to the little 'shudder' going around 50-60km/h. i have about 120,000km on the car.
i noticed that my wife's 08 accord, with only 40,000km is much more smooth at shifting, although sometimes you'll get the same slight 'shudder'.
so my conclusion is, F it. haha. whatever will be will be. hopefully the 'shudder' that i'm feeling is just a product of my paranoia, and it's not even what everyone is talking about. won't waste hundreds of dollars more on this, better to save up in case i need to do some bigger repair later (hopefully that won't be necessary).
=)
i noticed that my wife's 08 accord, with only 40,000km is much more smooth at shifting, although sometimes you'll get the same slight 'shudder'.
so my conclusion is, F it. haha. whatever will be will be. hopefully the 'shudder' that i'm feeling is just a product of my paranoia, and it's not even what everyone is talking about. won't waste hundreds of dollars more on this, better to save up in case i need to do some bigger repair later (hopefully that won't be necessary).
=)
#849
#850
takin care of Business in
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^^^ PM a member on here....his name is John and his sn is Wacker....
he had some shudder and he used some additive with FM's and the shudder went away....
he had some shudder and he used some additive with FM's and the shudder went away....
#851
:what:
What I was experiencing was torque converter shudder. It happened upon torque converter lockup after the 3rd and up gear shifts. My fluid was trashed. I ran about 20 qts of trans fluid through it first to clean it up. It got better but didn't go away from the flushes. I then added this.
It is available at NAPA, Oreilleys, and a few other places. After my last 3X3 I added this:
It's made by the same company. It has other additives in it as well as the shudder eliminator. I have put 40,000 miles on the car since I eliminated the shudder and it has yet to come back. The trans shifts like a dream. I was sure I was going to have to build it.
It is available at NAPA, Oreilleys, and a few other places. After my last 3X3 I added this:
It's made by the same company. It has other additives in it as well as the shudder eliminator. I have put 40,000 miles on the car since I eliminated the shudder and it has yet to come back. The trans shifts like a dream. I was sure I was going to have to build it.
#852
thanks a lot, Wacker. i love how it's called "Dr. Tranny" usually i stay away from things like that cause it's probably right next to the "As Seen on TV" seal of quality
this looks like it increases the amount of friction modifiers, which makes the shifting softer. does this tend to wear out some of the parts (er...clutch?).
i'm not exactly sure what i'm talking about, but i remember reading that some people were putting in Redline Type F ATF (which contains no friction modifiers) to reduce the shuddering...it made the shifting more responsive but less 'soft'. i guess that feels good from the POV of performance, and because there's less 'slipping' from the friction modifiers creating a softer shift.
bottom line is, by increasing the amount of friction modifiers in the ATF, does this increase the wear on the transmission? (anyone know how, or which parts?)
thanks
this looks like it increases the amount of friction modifiers, which makes the shifting softer. does this tend to wear out some of the parts (er...clutch?).
i'm not exactly sure what i'm talking about, but i remember reading that some people were putting in Redline Type F ATF (which contains no friction modifiers) to reduce the shuddering...it made the shifting more responsive but less 'soft'. i guess that feels good from the POV of performance, and because there's less 'slipping' from the friction modifiers creating a softer shift.
bottom line is, by increasing the amount of friction modifiers in the ATF, does this increase the wear on the transmission? (anyone know how, or which parts?)
thanks
#853
:what:
Not everyone can get away with the redline racing fluids. I went with a type-f first and it made the problem worse. Right now I am running the castrol ATF for imports in my 04 TL and the wifes 06 TL with the red bottle of lube guard in each. The shifts are much more crisp and quick in both cars. Her's never had the shudder but responded very well to the additive. The guys on the trans building forums and bobistheoilguy.com swear by the lube guard products for all Honda and Ford transmissions. They reduce heat on the clutches and greatly extend the life of the trans. I talked to two trans shops when I had my shudder issue. One said I had no choice but to rebuild and the other (a long to lime friend) said to try the lube guard additives, and if they didn't fix the problem that I'd need an overhaul. Do some research. It can't hurt anything. If you try it and don't like it, flush it out. This stuff fixed the same issue on a buddy's Mercury Merauder and another friends Expedition. Both of them can't believe the difference in their transmissions.
40k+ miles later my trans has never felt better.
40k+ miles later my trans has never felt better.
#854
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Fords are incredibly prone to torque converter shudder and the red bottle works good on that. When I rebuilt transmissions we would use DexIII with a black bottle in the pre-electronic Hondas.
DexIII will work well in any Honda and extend the life. Type F works very well for most electronic Hondas but there's a handful it will make worse. It's not the fluid causing a problem, it's the fluid making a previously unseen problem visible. If the trans has trouble exhausting the 3rd gear circuit you're going to get a bind which looks to the driver like a flare and it will cause excessive wear on the 3rd gear clutches.
Torque converter lockup clutch shudder is a completely different animal. The clutch packs do not tolerate slippage so the quicker you get them engaged the better and this is where less FM will benefit the trans. The torque converter is designed to slip for short periods of time. When you have a clutch that's designed to slip, too little FM will cause a shudder. It's just like a limited slip differential with cones or clutches. You have to run an limited slip fluid or add a tube of friction modifier to it or you get chatter around corners.
The vast majority of the problems are shudder on gear shifts and the DexIII or Type F will cure the problem. If its torque converter shudder it won't fix the problem. If the pressure switches have no effect, the DexIII or Type F probably won't either.
DexIII will work well in any Honda and extend the life. Type F works very well for most electronic Hondas but there's a handful it will make worse. It's not the fluid causing a problem, it's the fluid making a previously unseen problem visible. If the trans has trouble exhausting the 3rd gear circuit you're going to get a bind which looks to the driver like a flare and it will cause excessive wear on the 3rd gear clutches.
Torque converter lockup clutch shudder is a completely different animal. The clutch packs do not tolerate slippage so the quicker you get them engaged the better and this is where less FM will benefit the trans. The torque converter is designed to slip for short periods of time. When you have a clutch that's designed to slip, too little FM will cause a shudder. It's just like a limited slip differential with cones or clutches. You have to run an limited slip fluid or add a tube of friction modifier to it or you get chatter around corners.
The vast majority of the problems are shudder on gear shifts and the DexIII or Type F will cure the problem. If its torque converter shudder it won't fix the problem. If the pressure switches have no effect, the DexIII or Type F probably won't either.
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3.2TLc (09-01-2014)
#856
Senior Moderator
Yea, and they are an even worse design with more problems than the 3rd gens here.
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3.2TLc (09-01-2014)
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DwightCmendez24 (09-12-2013)
#858
ok i'll give it a try, and see where i can find it in canada. hopefully canadian napa stores will carry it.
so you just add the dr. shudder red tube, and lube guard in after an ATF flush? can i just add it without replacing the ATF, mine is only about a couple months old, should be DW-1 from honda, unless they gave me some old stock of Z1.
so you just add the dr. shudder red tube, and lube guard in after an ATF flush? can i just add it without replacing the ATF, mine is only about a couple months old, should be DW-1 from honda, unless they gave me some old stock of Z1.
#860
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I knew it.. you seemed like the type to carry around a bottle of lube wherever you went..
#861
This is very helpful. When I was looking at TLs to buy. I noticed that there were many for sale in the 100k-110k mile range. I bought my 2007 TL Base with 102k. I'm getting the tranny flushed today and doing the 105k tune up next month. I am definitely going to get these 3rd and 4th gear sensors replaced too. Great post!
jb2
jb2
#862
Senior Moderator
Ok guys please help as soon as possible....I have 04 TL the tranny was rebuilt about 10 months ago and the symptoms are back (slipping, clunking into reverse, slipping while shifting from 2nd to 3rd and randomly between any other gear) when the tranny is rebuilt do they change all of those pressure sensors in the diagram???? HELP
#863
Mr. Detail
Ok guys please help as soon as possible....I have 04 TL the tranny was rebuilt about 10 months ago and the symptoms are back (slipping, clunking into reverse, slipping while shifting from 2nd to 3rd and randomly between any other gear) when the tranny is rebuilt do they change all of those pressure sensors in the diagram???? HELP
#864
Suzuka Master
Dont really think they are "supposed too". They are going to rebuild the transmission and then transfer the electronics and other appurtenances. Hell Acura does not even specify replacing these selenoids. Its up to you to request replacement of the switches
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3.2TLc (09-01-2014)
#865
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I can understand solenoids to a degree because while they can cause problems it's not likely they will shorten transmission life. Switches will and should always be replaced.
I worked at an exceptional shop when I was young, very honest. On transmissions with known issues such as the Ford E4OD a solenoid pack was included in the cost of a rebuild. Same with many Chrysler FWD transmissions of the era, many times we replaced the pack. On the RWD models just the linear solenoid was replaced. On most GM units the electronics usually didn't get replaced except for the occasional lockup solenoid and neutral safety switch.
What I'm getting at is a good shop should know what needs to be replaced on a particular transmission. With the switches being a large cause of the failures, they should be replaced every time. With the switches being bad already the new transmission won't last as long as the original which seems to be the case a lot of times.
I worked at an exceptional shop when I was young, very honest. On transmissions with known issues such as the Ford E4OD a solenoid pack was included in the cost of a rebuild. Same with many Chrysler FWD transmissions of the era, many times we replaced the pack. On the RWD models just the linear solenoid was replaced. On most GM units the electronics usually didn't get replaced except for the occasional lockup solenoid and neutral safety switch.
What I'm getting at is a good shop should know what needs to be replaced on a particular transmission. With the switches being a large cause of the failures, they should be replaced every time. With the switches being bad already the new transmission won't last as long as the original which seems to be the case a lot of times.
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3.2TLc (09-01-2014)
#866
IHC, my 05 AT 92XXX miles has the bump shift (noticed it going slow over speed bumps 2nd to 3rd upshift.) Two questions: changing the switches and switch to Type F is early enough to curb any serious problems? Also, Type F or Lightweight Type F? thank you
#867
Cruisin'
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04 TL reading 167k.. I am not sure what to minus since the calibration was off. Anyways, I changed the 3 & 4 switch and went to the DW atf. The shuddering stopped. smooth shift now baby. feels great.
#868
Valve Body Write Up
Originally Posted by skads_187 View Post
how come only 3/4 sensors?
Mine doesn't seem to be 100% smooth when going from 1st to 2nd, doesn't seem like a problem, but it isn't always smooth.
This is my first post and recently bought a 2006 3.2 TL 5AT with 67000KM from my cousin. My cousin bought this vehicle brand new and this forum and all DIY's has been very informative. I have placed an order for the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switch. I think I have the same problem as skads_187 and my vehicle runs too noisy and 'jerky' at 1st and 2nd gear(below 3000 RPM).
Majofo: Could this be crap in the valve body issue related? Is there a write up for this symptom? Your input is appreciated. Thanks.
how come only 3/4 sensors?
Mine doesn't seem to be 100% smooth when going from 1st to 2nd, doesn't seem like a problem, but it isn't always smooth.
Majofo: Could this be crap in the valve body issue related? Is there a write up for this symptom? Your input is appreciated. Thanks.
#869
Instructor
Originally Posted by skads_187 View Post
how come only 3/4 sensors?
Mine doesn't seem to be 100% smooth when going from 1st to 2nd, doesn't seem like a problem, but it isn't always smooth.
This is my first post and recently bought a 2006 3.2 TL 5AT with 67000KM from my cousin. My cousin bought this vehicle brand new and this forum and all DIY's has been very informative. I have placed an order for the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switch. I think I have the same problem as skads_187 and my vehicle runs too noisy and 'jerky' at 1st and 2nd gear(below 3000 RPM).
Majofo: Could this be crap in the valve body issue related? Is there a write up for this symptom? Your input is appreciated. Thanks.
how come only 3/4 sensors?
Mine doesn't seem to be 100% smooth when going from 1st to 2nd, doesn't seem like a problem, but it isn't always smooth.
This is my first post and recently bought a 2006 3.2 TL 5AT with 67000KM from my cousin. My cousin bought this vehicle brand new and this forum and all DIY's has been very informative. I have placed an order for the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switch. I think I have the same problem as skads_187 and my vehicle runs too noisy and 'jerky' at 1st and 2nd gear(below 3000 RPM).
Majofo: Could this be crap in the valve body issue related? Is there a write up for this symptom? Your input is appreciated. Thanks.
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#870
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Originally Posted by skads_187 View Post
how come only 3/4 sensors?
Mine doesn't seem to be 100% smooth when going from 1st to 2nd, doesn't seem like a problem, but it isn't always smooth.
This is my first post and recently bought a 2006 3.2 TL 5AT with 67000KM from my cousin. My cousin bought this vehicle brand new and this forum and all DIY's has been very informative. I have placed an order for the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switch. I think I have the same problem as skads_187 and my vehicle runs too noisy and 'jerky' at 1st and 2nd gear(below 3000 RPM).
Majofo: Could this be crap in the valve body issue related? Is there a write up for this symptom? Your input is appreciated. Thanks.
how come only 3/4 sensors?
Mine doesn't seem to be 100% smooth when going from 1st to 2nd, doesn't seem like a problem, but it isn't always smooth.
This is my first post and recently bought a 2006 3.2 TL 5AT with 67000KM from my cousin. My cousin bought this vehicle brand new and this forum and all DIY's has been very informative. I have placed an order for the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switch. I think I have the same problem as skads_187 and my vehicle runs too noisy and 'jerky' at 1st and 2nd gear(below 3000 RPM).
Majofo: Could this be crap in the valve body issue related? Is there a write up for this symptom? Your input is appreciated. Thanks.
I also don't condone mixing ATFs, especially those with greatly varied viscosity points. I recommend for you to start with DW1 on the 3x3 and do a change and fill every 10k miles. Read the threads thoroughly if you plan on doing racing fluid.
Last edited by Majofo; 02-09-2014 at 01:44 PM.
#871
1st to 2nd is either a fluid or mechanical issue. Changing the fluid is your best bet. I don't condone the use of solvents, only as a last resort. Do a 3x3 first and see if that helps. It could be a couple of different things going on including mounts and half shaft bearing that add to the flare. Check the front and side motor mounts.
I also don't condone mixing ATFs, especially those with greatly varied viscosity points. I recommend for you to start with DW1 on the 3x3 and do a change and fill every 10k miles. Read the threads thoroughly if you plan on doing racing fluid.
I also don't condone mixing ATFs, especially those with greatly varied viscosity points. I recommend for you to start with DW1 on the 3x3 and do a change and fill every 10k miles. Read the threads thoroughly if you plan on doing racing fluid.
#872
My bad. Honda DW-1 or Redline Racing ATF D4 3x3 tranny flush?
#873
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
If it were me, I'd go with the thinner DW1 if you haven't bought the ATF yet.
#874
Instructor
DW-1 is the Honda fluid, I would suggest using Redline as its the best ATF you can buy and is full synthetic. If you have cold weather you should use a mixture of lightweight and regular racing with one or two quarts of Redline D4 total for the 3X3 flushes. The racing is type F with no friction modifier and the D4 has the modifier, you just don't want very much friction modifier as that is what causes the slippage and wear on the clutch packs.https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/optimal-percentage-racing-atf-834299/ If you haven't seen this post yet it will explain the mixture to you. I hope this helps.
Last edited by 1KLRTOY; 02-09-2014 at 05:30 PM.
#875
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Mix lw and regular type F.. good luck with that.
#876
takin care of Business in
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^^^ I was running Type F and had a 5x3 done (1x3 at 147K, 148K, 149K, 150K, 165K)....after installing the B&M transmission cooler, I starter getting some flaring during 2nd to 3rd shifts when the transmission fluid hadnt warmed up....when warmed up, there was no more flaring...
I was going to do another 1x3 at 180K, but I ended up getting 2D4 and 1 Type F and did a 1x3 at 177K....
after about 50 odd miles of driving, there was no more flaring, the quick shifts were back....
going forward, am gonna do a 1x3 every 15K miles with 2xType F and 1xD4...
I was going to do another 1x3 at 180K, but I ended up getting 2D4 and 1 Type F and did a 1x3 at 177K....
after about 50 odd miles of driving, there was no more flaring, the quick shifts were back....
going forward, am gonna do a 1x3 every 15K miles with 2xType F and 1xD4...
#877
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
whore
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I hate cars (02-20-2014)
#878
Instructor
#879
Racer
^^^ man i wish i would have known this prior. did a 3x3 with redline d4 several months ago and now my trans is slipping/gone...wonder if it's the cold weather that's been an issue with the d4s heavier viscosity?
#880
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Racing (type F) is thicker than stock.
LW racing (type F) is thinner than stock.
If you want a type F that's stock viscosity, most are. Redline is one of the few that's thicker or thinner but no "regular" viscosity.
Amso has a good Type F that's factory viscosity so no mixing is required.
I saw your post on your transmission problems. Don't you think if high viscosity was the problem you would see the biggest problems when it's at it's thickest when cold and not when hot as yours was? The switches help with rough cold shifts so I'm guessing you're on the original switches at that mileage. You have to do both switches and the good fluid if you want it to last. There's a chance the fluid can worsen the inherent problems with these transmissions on old switches. At 124,000 miles I just did them for the 3rd time and what a difference once again. I'm going to start doing them every 1-2 years.
Last edited by I hate cars; 02-19-2014 at 09:30 PM.