I hate cars

Luckily the TL has the heat exchanger mounted on the transmission. So instead of bringing the atf into the exchanger inside of the radiator, the coolant is brought to the exchanger on top of the transmission. If one of those lines burst it would be coolant. The Type S has the external cooler though.

I remember on some of the older cars, occasionally they would end up with coolant in the transmission and atf in the coolant when the heat exchanger in the radiator would rupture. Coolant and auto trans clutches don't mix well lol.

I hate cars

The Type F doesn't cause the shudder and it almost always cures existing shudder.

What it does (rarely) is it shows an existing problem. The flare seems to actually be a bind where the clutches of a lower gear drag when they shouldn't. Well actually they should never drag but it's an issue with some of these transmissions and since the Type F is not as "slippery" the drag becomes enough to actually increase engine rpm. So it's not a traditional flare due to slippage. It's actually the other way around, it's the transmission raising the engine rpm due to an unwanted lower gear semi applying when it shouldn't.

I have no recommendation because I don't know the cause of the dragging or what gear it is. I've been running close to 100% Type F fluid for years no with no problems. Hopefully if it ever begins to "flare" I'll be able to figure out what gear and why.

This is one case where the stock fluid is better because it covers up the problem but if you don't the flare, I would probably not change anything if you're happy with the way it shifts now. I can say with pretty good confidence that the flare is not due to excessive wear and I believe this fluid is still drastically reducing wear of the clutch packs.

LaCostaRacer

Wow IHC you are fast! I checked the factory manual and they call that exchanger a 'heater' which is a strange description. I like 'exchanger' better. I had no idea this issue was lurking and just posted something in the MDX forum about this one. I did a search there and didn't find anything. I guess the MDXer.org forum has more active owners possibly because there were lots of hits there and Piloteers.org as well.

I hope it's only a $600 or less repair tomorrow- the radiator is about $300 and there will be a few hours of labor. I think I'll have them replace all the hoses while they're at it too. I'll give my shot the 6 old quarts of Z1 as a hedge in case this doesn't work out on the tranny. If it does I replace the fluid in a couple of weeks with a new order of Redline.

I hate cars

The good thing about an auto is it will lose line pressure quickly when it loses fluid so I'm sure the trans is fine.

That exchanger will actually help heat the coolant on a cold start. Once you start driving the torque converter makes heat pretty much instantly and the cooler circuit on most cars comes from the converter since its the main heat producer.

Basically whenever the trans is hotter than the engine coolant it's a cooler a nd whenever the trans is colder than the engine it's a heater, depending on which way you look at if of course. It tries to keep trans temps that are not thermostat regulated equal to the regulated coolant temp.

I'm assuming on the TL it's plumbed from the cool side of the radiator but I've never looked. I know you already know this but my point is, why did they settle on the word heater to describe it.

pohljm

Hey LaCosta! Sucks to hear that but at least it crapped itself in the driveway and not on the 5! saved the tranny. Did you see that crown point meet at the end of March?

LaCostaRacer

Great to hear back from you. Just got the Pilot back from the shop for $680 for a radiator replace. The Pilot seems to be running fine which is a great relief- wasn't ready to get another vehicle. No I did not hear about the meet but I'll look forward to attending- thanks!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

WOW I totally missed your reply....

First off, I have no flaring and no shudder and no slipping and no complains with Type F....its holding up great.....

Recently Wacker had some shudder on his car and he used Amsoil Type F and it barely cured the shudder....the minute he added some fluid high in FM's (DR Transmission something) the shudder was cured:

Last post on this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=875002&page=2

IN MY CAR: the 2nd gear shift is lagging a lot and 3rd barely noticeable lag....and hence am thinking of doing the switches while I installed the B&M cooler...its been ~60K since I did the switches anyway....

I am looking forward to a 100% non FM fluid...lets see how it goes

01Ford841

i can....was told the same thing!

tlorencz

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure it is only the sensors that need replacement and not the solenoid valves as well? I thouth I remember seeing lots of problems with the 3rd and 4th shift solenoids. This is the first I have heard the problem being the sensors.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

Solenoids / Sensors. Different words for the same thing. Some places they are referred to as the 3rd and 4th gear shift solenoids and other places they are referred to as the 3rd and 4th gear sensors. Same thing.

I hate cars

Solenoids are an output device. Switches and sensors are inputs. In this case they're pressure switches. They're on or off, no in between and hydraulic pressure in each respective circuit triggers them.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

IHC,

I just tried to send you a PM, but your box is full. (Not surprised.) Instead I will thank you here publicly.

Just sold my TL with 194k on the odometer with the original transmission shifting smooth as could be. Way back when I had 115k I was getting shudder on the 3rd/4th shift and thought I was going to be in for thousands of dollars for a trans replacement or rebuild, but then i found your thread on this forum...

In short, your posts likely saved me from destroying my transmission and allowed me to enjoy my car for many more years and pass it along to a new owner with a good smooth transmission.

I also learned many other things from your posts over the years as I became interested in this forum.

I appreciate the knowledge you share. You are a talented individual. God bless you.

TexanAttorney

Great post, what ATF did you use? The D4 or Type F? Intervals?

bbergero1181

my 04 TL started showing the shuddering around 130K miles or so (fluid was changed at 122k at the dealer) and it made it all the way to 160k miles when i traded it in... the shudder was annoying but lasted much longer than i expected it to.

on a side note, so you say harsh shifts are better for the tranny (less wear) does that mean when u drive it harder, causing harder shifts this is actually better? does this include that hard shift between 3 and 4 under WOT?

I hate cars

There's a huge difference in a harsh shift like a bump shift and a good quick shift. A bump shift feels harsh but its because the clutches slip until the shift is almost over then grab all at once. This is bad. With proper shift timing a shift can be lightning fast with very little wear and barely felt by the driver.

A different fluid and pressure switches will get rid of that harsh shift and save wear on the trans along with less jerkiness felt by the driver.... at part throttle. The fluid will help at part and at full throttle. The switches have little effect at full throttle.

logi

Just wanted to add... I have an 07 tl type s and last week my coolant and transmission fluid mixed together. My mechanic said it was because the hose that carries transmission fluid to the radiator burst(on join so cannot replace just the hose) and thus the two fluids mixed together. Luckily it happened in my garage and noticed when I heard something leaking as I was getting into my car. I had started it with my remote starter. Therefore parked it outside and got it towed to my mechanic. He changed the radiator and another part and also flushed the tranny fluid at least 3-4 times or until it was clean(he said many times). total cost was 890 Canadian. The only major problem I had with my car until now. btw I pretty much change my ATF whenever I do an oil change, with acura fluid.

I hate cars

That's retarded. When that happens on the TL-S it's just the transmission cooler inside the radiator. All you do is replace the radiator and do several drains and refills of the transmission and the cooling system. You figure if it was extremely thorough he used $200 in fluids and I'm sure it wasn't even that much. The radiator is what, $180? What a ripoff.

logi

Ya, believe it or not the stealership wanted over $1000... I called before I had the repair done. I trust my mechanic since he works at BMW during the day and does the repairs in his dads shop at night along with 3 other mechanics that also work at BMW. Also, the price in Canada for parts and liquids is generally more expensive. A radiator at my acura dealer is $250 plus tax Canadian. Coolant is I bieleve $25.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, just seeing this now. I used Redline. Originally I was using a blend of 2qt Type F Racing to 1qt Lightweight Racing. Later I switched to a 3-way cocktail of 1qt-Racing+1qt-Lightweight+1qt-D4. Did a 3x3 at 115k, then I did single 1x3 drain and fills at intervals of 15k to 20k miles.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ that is exactly what am doing....

1x3 every 15K miles....but am running straight Type F (just like IHC)....

the day I experience flaring, I will be switching to the awesome threesome cock-tails

aceyatc

All good info gents!!! I am getting the shudder with now 163k on a 04TL. Changed the ATF at 125 and did spark plugs at 120. I am wondering if the shudder at 30-40 mph is more likely from the malfunctioning 3 and 4 switch?

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

It's likely that the 3 and 4 switches are contributing. Best to do both as you need good switches and good fluid to keep the trans running well. Don't be afraid though. I had some shudder appearing on my TL around 115k. Did the switches and started paying attention to the fluid and ran another 80k with zero issues. I sold the TL with 195k with the trans shifting far smoother and better than it did at 115k.

Just make sure you take care of it right away!! The shudder is causing wear on the clutches in the transmission.

TL Seth

Is this fix at all relevant to the 6mt?
I havnt had any issues, but if it is a preventative measure I will do it on my 6mt

blueracer17

No.

TouringXLuxury

Amazing thread. Checked out the additional DIY. But ended up getting it done through my shop. Just got the car a few weeks ago 2006 TL BASE w/ 59k miles. With the change of switches and a drain with ENEOS full synthetic. The car is much more responsive from shifts. I've never really felt the shudder that everyone is referring to. Although my Old CL Type S used to do that until the tranny went out at 40k miles. This pressure switch change is well worth doing and you should feel an improvement right away. Thanks to Ihatecars, Ilovemine.

LaCostaRacer

I was in a bunch of traffic getting through LA this week and found another use for 'L' when in the stop and go traffic which doesn't move faster than 10mph. I figure leaving the car in 1st gear in this case is easier on the tranny than having it do the 1-2 shift right before needing to stop and go 2-1.

Any thoughts on this theory? Once traffic cleared I simply went back into D. I figure I prevented 1000 shifts from happening easily. I had 2+ hours of creeper traffic along 101.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ I have a better solution, move out of LA


well am not sure if leaving it in low gear for extended periods is a good idea, i hope IHC will chime in

Majofo

Nothing wrong with that. For you guys with the updated PCM.. just slap it into SS. Also, L doesn't mean 1st gear necessarily, post below quotes the owner's manual.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13026393&postcount=9



You need to stay out of transmission related threads Anil.

There is nothing wrong with leaving it in a certain gear for extended periods. It's much better than having the trans go through quick repetitive gear changes.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ why not just leave it in 2nd gear?

with the Auto once you upshift into 3rd and downshift to 2nd, it holds 2nd....

or if you are at a complete stop and upshift to 2nd, it holds 2nd even if you come to a complete stop....

I would rather leave it in 2nd then L....

Majofo

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

ok nevermind....I didnt know that function of the L....

shuddup

I hate cars

It's definitely better to hold in first to prevent a bunch of up and downshifts. Holding it in second gear at low speeds will increase heat in the trans.

Majofo

Now unsubscribe..

I hate cars

The way my '06 has always functioned is using SS to put it in first results in the usual 1-2 shift at about the same time as it would normally hit second but from there it will stay on the rev limiter, no shift to 3rd.

Low keeps it in first and it will hit the rev limiter without shifting to second.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

from the link posted by Maj, L seems to hold a gear....so it can hold 2nd as well?

also excuse my ignorance but how does holding 2nd heat up trans but holding 1st or 3rd doesnt?

holding it in 2nd coz 2004-2005 (not sure of 2006) automatically shift from 1st to 2nd....i know for sure 2007 and up do not upshift into 2nd automatically....

Majofo

I believe SS will hold first for the 07-08 models with the new trans and updated PCM..

I found out by bouncing a loaner off the redline in SS while in traffic.. My jams were too loud to hear the engine, and I was like.. oh shit.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

I know someone else who has done that....IHC speak up please LOL....

Majofo

Is it harder to bike up a hill in 1:1 or 12:1?

Now git!

I hate cars

If you're crawling along in traffic in 1st gear, engine speed and transmission input shaft speed will be closer to the same speed so there's less slip in the converter and less heat. Plus the higher second gear will require more throttle along with the additional slippage.

Think of it like this. Everyone knows powerbraking produces lots of heat since the transmission input shaft is stationary and the engine is spinning 2,200rpm or whatever and trying to move the car but instead there's just a bunch of slippage in the torque converter. Crawling along or starting off in second puts you closer to a powerbraking scenario, the input shaft is turning slower than it would be in first so there's more slip. If you could put it in 3rd and take off it would be even worse.

LaCostaRacer

^Thanks for the quick response IHC. It seemed to make sense while in traffic for that time. I was mostly thinking about saving the clutch pack for 1st/2nd gear and wear but definitely see the merits of reducing heat too.

We cruised up to Big Sur earlier in the week and LA via 101 was an extremely painful part of the drive. Even despite the horrendous traffic, the TL still managed 27 MPG with 4 people and luggage- I'm still on a tank of gas purchased from San Luis Obispo. Not bad!