Precision Crafted

The TL was never meant to be a Skyline fighter. Honda doesn't even offer a Skyline figher. That in and of itself makes the TL weak. The only dyno testing done to my knowledge has been done by Jeff and the staff at TOV.

BloodFart

Last time I checked, the 3G TL with automatic transmission is putting down about 200-205 fwhp. Correct?

200 x
---- = ---
75 100

200 x 100 / 75 = 266.67 hp at the crank which is smack dab between the previous 270 hp rating and the 258 hp rating, accounting for variations.

kthxbye

Steel

There are quite a few people here that have Dyno'd, just search it. Their numbers dont come near 270 crank.

Stein

Thank you.

Yea, sometimes my words get in the way of thoughts. We're cool.

BloodFart

You're a stubborn, obtuse fella. I'm not arguing with you anymore. You've proved your ignorance.

ndx2

You should've have said that from the beginning and be done with it.



Can't believe he's bitching about the 5AT dyno'ing less than the 6MT... So all the cars offering MT and AT should publish different HP/TQ? Get real dude.

There's always been parasitic power losses, and this new, lower rating means the parasitic power loss (in %) also decreased. That's good, on paper, but it really doesn't mean shit and doesn't change shit - just like the revised HP figure.

caball88

although i understand that there is no change in performance in the TL's engine it is a little disappointing to find out that they measured hp differently than it's direct competitors. the car is great the way it is packaged right now but as seeing that performance was one of the deciding factors for me when i was purchasing a car it might have made a bigger difference. i was looking at a G coupe as well(i know its a 2 door car, different class) but the hp was 280(this was 2004 model). i thought there was very little difference between 270 and 280, but now since the TL is really 258 there could have been a little more to think about. since nissan has bumped the hp to 298, that extra 40hp looks like a much bigger difference. i know hp is not the only thing that makes a great car but it does make me think about the difference.

BloodFart

Uh, no. They ALL used the same system. Acura took the leap and adopted the new system now which will become the industry standard within the next several years. So in reality, you should be disappointed that other car companies are still sticking with the previous system for the fear of their numbers going down and hurting them.

BloodFart

I just want to add one thing. I just have to.

When two different cars are available for similar prices, it is up to YOU, the consumer, to make educated comparisons based on your needs and desires and make an informed decision. After all, it's your money.

So you decided to spend your money on the TL, when your focus was on performance all along, and now you're bitching at Acura for it? Get real, dude. You're the one who fucked up and bought the wrong car, if your priority was performance at the sacrifice of design and quality.

AMIC

This debate is going on in this thread too...

https://acurazine.com/forums/dating-relationships-14/what-hell-does-mean-120294/

I agree that this discussion should be merged into one thread and clear all this mess out of this one. I have been keeping up with this thread for info on the '06s and now I have to wade through pages of an argument between a few people.

Steel

Learn how to read comprehensively you fucking retard.

I'm TELLING You that the AUTO TL DOES NOT DYNO IMPLYING IT HAS 270 CRANK HORSEPOWER. There is a different drivetrain loss from auto and manual, I'm not complaining the Auto doesnt dyno the same as the stick, even given the % drivetrain loss it doesnt make 270 crank.


LEARN HOW TO FUCKING READ BEFORE YOU REPLY.

Steel

Maybe I'm not clear.

I didnt buy the TL for it's speed, however having 270 useable hp (crank) was definitely a draw. Having read some magazines and some times on here, it seemed safe that the TL was a mid-high 14 second car with the auto transmission. That is simply not the case, after reading dyno's after the purchase, and now this new "average" HP rating proves it. The only way Acura got 270 was from a few stronger motors, that's about it.

I own a Vette for speed, I bought the TL for its features, and those features put it ahead of the g35, however it is pathetic that the cross town rival has so much more power than the TL. Even worse is that the '05 G has a much more comparable interior.

Sarushibai

whoa this is one heated debate. I never knew horsepower could create such a fuss... lol well I guess this is a car forum. Acura telling us the car produces 270 isnt necessarily a "scam" as much as it is advertising and marketing. As I have said before you shouldnt even look at hp numbers. I have been told that torque is a much greater concern, and a number to pay more attention to. Because hp is just overall power of the car, but who cares about that, I care about the pulling power of the vehicle in lower gears. Honestly though, it is a luxury sedan, never forget that. true it may only have 258 hp (or whatever), but you know what, it warms my ass and makes calls for me at the same time. I wanted class and luxury with a combo of style and speed. If I just wanted speed I would of bought an m3 or older supra. Supra... now thats a fucking car. But all it does is go fast... living life 1/4 mile at a time lol. I need a car that will entertain with its 5.1 surround while im stuck in traffic, and will have one touch moonroofs when I choose the cruise around in good weather. Not just a god damn rocket.

BloodFart

waaa, waaa, waaa....

Cry me a river.

The G35's rating will also take a hit if/when Infiniti decided to adopt the new system. You can't compare the TL's new rating to the G35's current rating.

Magazine numbers are usually SAE-corrected based on the set ideal conditions -- 55 degrees, 1 bar atmospheric pressure, etc. The numbers they get at the drag strip are fed into the computer given the current environmental conditions, then using compensation factors, the computer spits out a number that the car would run under ideal conditions. This is done to level the playing field, so that a car tested on a hot humid day doesn't seem slower than another car tested on a cool dry day.

So obviously, you don't go to the drag strip too often, and you are magazine racing. Way to go.

Steel

Wow, like I didnt fucking know that.

I've spent plenty of time at the track to know how shit works and how cars react to different circumstances.

Next post try insulting something else, maybe this time you'll actually hit something accurate.

All this tells me is that Acura doesnt make consistant motors. If they say 270 under old SAE net and now suddenly using averages it's 258, that's a huge hit. Sorry.

chill_dog

Yeah, I saw that one...you're right, now the last 5 pages of this thread should be merged with that one...I'll bet by the time I get to work tomorrow, this thread will be on page 20, with 10 pages dedicated to an argument over algebra.

The actual info on the 06 that was posted was interesting, and I'm sure eventually more will be posted. I actually have some boots, waders, and a biohazard suit at the office (usage depends on the situation...not sure about your office, but these items are required equipment around here)...I'll just be sure to put on one of them before I read this thread any more.

youngTL

I'm not understanding why we have to stoop to personal insults.

Now that that's out of the way, let's talk about this new horsepower rating. Like others have said, IF/WHEN Nissan/Infiniti and the rest of the automakers, save BMW (because they apparently do it already), adopt the NEW SAE standards, their hp WILL BE SMALLER NUMBERS AS WELL!

This does NOT mean that Acura measured wrong before! They didn't! They measured to the old standards (which Infiniti is STILL using!). That 280hp of the G35 will likely become 265-270 or so.

Steel, please post a dyno chart in this thread. I would like to see where your interpretation of the dyno is coming from. Be sure to include units.

topher

What a f--king waste of a thread. It's like a bunch of guys just found out their c*ck is not as big as their girlfriends told them it was and now they are mad.

Get over it. You like your car? Keep it. Don't? I got $20K for your 2005+ Anthracite aith Black Leather and Navi

The Chad

It should be noted that many of the major magazines have cited Honda as having extremely "healthy" cars in it's magazine test fleet.

The car is still making the same horsepower as it was before, but instead of looking at gross power, the new standard for testing takes into consideration normal use. It's like your paycheck. Gross income means nothing except bragging rights because your take home, or net, is what you actually get.

270hp, 258hp. Either way, that's a lot of HP for a FWD car. It hasn't lost any of it's charm or character. But it's likely that Infinity will sell a few more "on the fence" buyers between the TL and G35 until Infinity uses the new net standard of detirmining horsepower.

BloodFart

Everybody's numbers will change, not just Acura's.

youngTL

Yeah, providing they start using the new system (which is voluntary, as I'm sure you've stated).

So what if Infiniti gains a few sales. What is the public going to think when they find out that Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, and GM have been voluntarily using the new ratings, DESPITE their negative effects on paper and marketing. THEN who will look dishonest?

BloodFart

Except one thing -- the numbers can go up in certain cases like the new Z06. So it could go either way, apparently.

All I'm saying is that the new system provides more realistic numbers, just like when the net system replaced the gross system.

youngTL

I agree with you. It appears as though engines with less parasitic losses stand to gain hp with the new system. What I actually mean is that an auto or manual trans uses a constant amount of power to keep itself running (so do A/C compressors, etc). If you have a larger engine, this accounts for a much less percentage parasitic loss. Ever turn on the A/C in a Honda Civic LX? The thing slows down like you wouldn't believe. But if you turn on the A/C in a 5.7L V8 truck, you hardly notice. I think that's what the system is trying to compensate for, things like that (although not that specifically since A/C can and is shut off for the tests).

neuronbob

Man, what a debate this has caused. The change is no big deal as everyone's numbers are going to decrease when they decide to use the new system. In the short term, I do see less educated people migrating to those cars with "more HP".

Please keep it civil here guys....

Actuary

Whatever Infiniti makes in HP, I don't want one of those horrible real life mileage cars ever.

Gas isn't cheap anymore at $3.00+/Gallon. I have very good chance of going for next gen TSX for my next car.

Once gas price hits $5.00/Gallon, I know I will be looking at Toyota Prius.

caball88

oh...didn't know that, i thought i read somewhere in the previous pages that infiniti already adopted this new rating system. in that case then the my point was moot and there really is no difference at all.

HokieZ

If you want to compare the 350Z to the TL, don't. I own both and if I were choosing a daily driver I'd go with the TL. Unfortunately, that's the wife's daily driver and the 350 is mine. Yeah, the 350Z is faster, no question about it. It turns better, it hugs the road better, and it doesn't yank the steering wheel out of your hand when you nail the gas, has a phenomenal suspension, 18" rims, and very comfortable seats that hug you. The interior is garbage in comparison. Cloth, one of the worst stereo systems since the Pacer, the back is one large blindspot, no storage (and for the moment my drivers side window is stuck down).

The TL rides better, has a gorgeous interior, gets up and moves pretty damn well for a 3.2L V6, the best stock stereo I've ever heard.

They are two drastically differen cars. Dyno's for the Z routinely show the 287HP crank rating making between 230 and 240 at the crank. And that's with a MT and a carbon fiber driveshaft so that's a loss of 20%. If the TL losing 25% using an AT, that's pretty decent.

My $0.02

jkp1187

Not necessarily. Didn't some GM vehicle have its HP go up?

PandaBear

What happen to all the feature related discussion. It is just the peek hp, that means nothing in performance, it is the surface area under the hp vs rpm graph that matters.

How much hp is there at low rpm and how flat is the power band, how quick can you get to the peek hp? That is the question.

peek HP is for bragging right only, like how long is your d1ck, only you care about it when you look at it yourself in the mirror.

MR1

peek HP is for bragging right only, like how long is your d1ck, only you care about it when you look at it yourself in the mirror

A few other people in my life have seemed to care!

Whatever happened to the discussion about the 2006 TL?

King of Pain

Oh my god!!

Ever since the new ratings came out my car has slowed down significantly!! I can barely get up to speed on the freeway and I am getting passed by civics and old volkswagen beetles. Can somebeody please help. Maybe we can start a petition to acura to go back to the other rating system so we can all getting the missing horsepower back in our cars.

HA HA !!!! LOL

bmoreTLS

Exactly! Why in the world would they go backwards?

At least start thinking about AWD!!!! Honda...

Steel

Yet I own one, lol.


Thankfully the interior and styling make up for a little lackluster performance.

Precision Crafted

Your right about torque being more important. This is why dispite the Pilot and Ridgelines's hp, they need more low end torque that is just not there. This is truck manufactures care more about torque for its pulling power.

Look at the M-B CL65 AMG. Horse power is good but look at the torque rating using the now old system. It have over 700 lb/ft. Even when it gets adjusted it still has the pulling power of a truck.

I've said before that I'd wish Honda/Acura would bost torque more so then hp. The TL's 238 (old measure) wasn't that hot to me but the over all package was and is good.

tejesh83

I'm pretty dissappointed with the TL refresh. No hp increase, no keyless entry/start, no aux/ipod input or mp3 cd support, no rain sensing wipers, no auto lights ... Instead TPMS, lame! As far as comfort/convenience features, the TL doesn't seem as competitive as it once was to the refreshed 06 G35, 3series, and new IS. Even it's little sister, the updated 06 TSX, will put up a good fight.

I still love the styling inside and out. But, I'm starting to have doubts about my upcoming purchase within the next few months. I was set on the TL, but now I will have to reconsider the competition for 06.

Steel

I agree with the skepticism. It could make me think twice as well however I see the IS350 as the only potential buy if I were looking today and not 3 months ago.

Precision Crafted

I was expecting Auto on/off lights at the lest. However, I guess Acura figures that their sales numbers are strong enough to not warrent more. Auto wipers! Only the RL will get that one first which it should have had to begin with. It's not as if the parts are sitting around.

Keyless Access! Nope! Not know. There isn't much to separate the RL from the TL. I've read where an aux input or mp3 isn't possible with our sound system as it degrades sound quality. That's just what I've read.

The TL's changes should occure for '07 but may be limited to exterior changes and a few equipment add ons. The reason I feel this way is because what I said earlier. There isn't much to separate the TL from the RL.

Precision Crafted

Now that is going to be some car when it is fully loaded.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

There's always a car faster than yours. If you live your life comparing yourself to others, you'll never be happy.

G35 this, G35 that... TL vs. G35 is not a good comparison so stop whining and enjoy the TL you have for what it is. There's lots of people out there whose dream is to buy a TL but can't afford to. Be thankful and stop talking like a spoiled son of a bitch over a few tenths of a second in the 1/4-mile.

Steel

Believe me I'm thankful I can afford the cars I own, however comparing the g35 and TL is not a big problem because they COST THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY and HAVE SIMILIAR FEATURES.