jhood

what if its all wheel ddrive like the rl

DMZ

You won't see an AWD TL until the next generation, 2008 or 9.

It's much more likely you'll see a Hybrid before then......especially with gas now hitting $3 for premium here in NYC.

Precision Crafted

Well, Acura officials did mention earlier this past spring that a hybrid performance model was coming. They didn't say what model or what time frame Acura was looking at. Some speculation was that the RDX would be Acura's first hybrid but Honda said no SUV in the near future was going to be hybrid.

My best guess is that the TL will be offered as a hybrid performace model. Yes gas prices are high, but Acura said that their focus was more on performance then economy.

TL CHROMETIDE

I'm glad Acura is leaning towards the performance side.

Toyota brought out a hybrid Highlander with 265-hp. I think Honda would have no problem doing this.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

My 270hp TL feels like it only has 230hp.... I feel like the Nissan Maxima's 255hp work much harder than the TL's...

JackSprat01

I had the '04 Max, and I agree with what you are FEELING but I think that's the extra torque, not the HP. Especially in the 6MT TL, if you're not in precisely the right gear and you gun it, it will smoothly pull as if it were sipping a cup of tea at the same time. The Maxima VQ tugs and snarls with more "seat of the pants" effort put in, so it seems. So, for the lazy driver, the Maxima will likely provide a more versatile, usable power curve.

But here is the beauty of the TL engine. When you ARE in the right gear and you get the revs up, it out-breathes and out-sings the Maxima V6 hands down. Pure music and plenty of power. It also surpasses the horrible torque steer of the Maxima..."wrestling an alligator." People on this forom complaining about TL torque steer need to drive a Max.

So, the question is are YOU a lazy driver?

TL CHROMETIDE

Hell no, that's why I drive a manual without navigation.

rets

It may be only ME having this problem...


To me, "SAE Net" with "J2723" seems to provide the new meaning of the truth. If we use G as the benchmark, it makes me heartbreaking. I used to believe our "270" ain't too far from their "280". If G does use SAE Net method, it seems Honda lies to me or I was fooled by their advertisement until a few months ago. Now, our "258" is really far from their "280" or "298".


If G and BMW do use this method to come out the numbers, it makes sense now. I do feel BMW 530 running as "fast" as TL, based on their weight/HP/torque now (530:TL/3494lb:3570/255hp:258/220lbs-ft:233), it seems explainable. Now, to those G'rs trying to race with me and lose, I really feel sorry that you don't know how to drive your vehicles with those additional HP/Torque...


Edit: I assume G is using "SAE Net" already. Lots of sites indicate G's numbers with "SAE Net".

TL CHROMETIDE

Are they really using SAE Net already? If it's true then the TL is way behind. If the TL is 270 hp SAE Net, the 3G TL must have a chance.

rets

The review about G is very popular online. I found lots of sites stating G's using SAE Net...

Put "SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM, 280 @ 6200" into Google/Yahoo, you will find tons of links. However, you will also find Acura RL with SAE Net 300 HP, which should be 290...

I guess "J2723" certification is the key as BloodFart said above.

I'm confused. Will G's numbers drop down?

F23A4

Spoken like a true Hondaphile. Seems like TS battles would require the Maxima driver to be a bit less lazy....aint many lazy folk rasslin' gators.

(But I will agree with the torque steer comment, although that's noticeably mitigated with a set of non-Bridgestone Potenza RE92s)

chill_dog

Very few cars have run numbers with the J2723 rules, and Nissan/Infiniti is not one of them (or at least they're not published as I'm sure somebody somewhere has run them). While that does make it hard for people to do apples to apples comparisons, that's life. Eventually, everyone will use the new standard, as they have in the past...some are just ahead of the curve.

Now, you can't say for sure the G's numbers will go down (c'mon rets, don't tell me you've just read the last couple of pages here), but the odds are they will.

Gadgets

This quote is found at the bottom of their new release yesterday on the 2006 changes.

2006 Infiniti changes

So it does not look like Infiniti is using the same system, and to repeat what was said before, the hp figure will probably come down, but no one can say for sure until they decide to adopt the new measuring system.

TL CHROMETIDE

1995...Outdated yeah?

Precision Crafted

From Thecarconnection:

New SAE Horsepower Rule Hurts Japanese, Euros

Changes in the way horsepower is rated by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) are benefiting the Big Three and dropping the quoted horsepower on several Japanese and European vehicles. The SAE recently adjusted the way in which horsepower is rated, and American companies found that many vehicles new for 2006 or brought to market with updated powertrains are seeing power increases. The Cadillac STS-v, for example, had been rated before its launch at 440 hp, but under the new tests it will be rated at 469 hp. Toyota and Honda, the Detroit News reports, are testing all the vehicles they sell and are downrating some powertrains like the 3.0-liter V-6 found in the Camry, which drops from 210 hp to 190 hp under the new system. The Acura RL falls from 300 hp to 290 hp.

I find it interesting that 1) the STS-v goes up in power as I guess this is due to less of a drive train loss. 2) some European car's hp will be rated lower then in the past few years, and 3) which Euro cars are they refering to?

It has been mentioned several times that BMW's rating is accurate and that of Porsche so I guess that leaves Audi, VW, and M-B.

acuraddict

Steel, get some anger management therapy. Then get a life, you freak.

Delmiroc

I'm considering buying a TL .. and after reading this.. I think I'm gonna go with 06 instead of 05

I found this link that goes over changes and fixes on the 2006 TL.

http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.cfm...&ReviewID=1757

EZZ

Nissan has stated they won't change over to the new method on their old engines...doesn't make sense from a financial point of view. Why should they spend money to retest when they don't have to (and lose marketability if it does go down). BTW, Nissan did test one engine...the VK in the FX45 and it WENT UP IN HP. Nissan has underrated their engines for marketing purposes (and the gentlemen's agreement) such as the Altima 3.5 and the Skyline GTR (280hp...more like 320hp). The 260hp G35 consistently gets 14.5 in the 1/4th with an automatic and dynos around 220hp with auto. I'd be a little surprised if anything gives on Nissan's VQ engine in the new testing.

JackSprat01

This late in the season I think you're making the right choice. Just don't be waiting at the door begging for an '06. Be patient or they'll pork you for MSRP.

TBnDFW

They are also raising the drive train warranty to 6yr/70,000miles. That will probably cover me for the time I would own the car.

Still, if I find a 2005 5AT/Navi sometime late in September for around $31,500, I'll probably pull the trigger.

MR1

I'll sell you mine for about that. 11,800 easy miles.

Batman-JGII

Two quick questions.

1. Has anyone seen color chips for the two new colors?
2. Does anyone know how the tire pressure monitoring system will work? Will it be like the POS in the G35 just giving me a light warning me that one of the tires are low or will it be a little more useful.

brian92873

Hi Guys,

I know its a little early for discussion on what the 07 model will hold but i ran into this article today:

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102996

TL: The TL sedan will be freshened for the 2007 or 2008 model year. Some sources believe that it may be more than a freshening and that the TL may get all-wheel drive.

Laxplaya11385

Man...if that's true, I might have to start saving up, so I can trade in my '05 TL and then pay off the difference

Tecworld

I have a friend working at Honda R&D, and he said there's clearly a 2007 TL-S in the works, plus he's seen the minor facelift and said it's quite nice. Headlight and taillight treatment as usual. The TL-S looks to have AWD and probably the 300hp concept TL engine, or something to that effect.

JackSprat01

V6 for the 07 TSX? I'd think a turbo 4 much more likely. Why ruin the balance of that great handling sedan?

Precision Crafted

If this is true then it is the best news about the TL since its introduction!

Now I did read somewhere that the Type S moniker was gone so does your friend believe that A-Spec will be more then just looks but backed up with some power?

How could he tell if AWD was added or not? Did he see the drive-shaft? Having a 300hp motor under the new calculations would be great. Lexus seems to do fine with the GS over powering the LS so what this may mean is that the TL will not get some of the extra things the RL has to keep the two of them separated luxuary wise in customer's minds.

My guess is that Nav Traffic will not be offered, as well as AFS, Adaptive Cruise, and maybe rear sun shade.

Now that I think about it, other then driving dynamics there isn't much other then engine power the RL has over the TL.

pughater

oh my god go get a sti already

pughater

if you want to cry about the g35 to the tl. why don't you just spend the money you saved buying the tl and mod it and get more hps out of it

pughater

just buy a g35 already

jtow

Hondas <> Turbo

whatjones911

will the 06 TL get an enhanced navi like the 06 TSX since both navi are similiar or will it be the same as the 05 TL?

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

There are these other factors called weight, gearing ratios, peak torque/horsepower range, etc.

There's more to it than just a stupid number. "Oh, it's got 270 hp... must be faster than 255 hp." Negatory.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

SAE Net has been in use for decades. It is not false advertising. Any published numbers you can find as far as the early 70's have been SAE Net ratings.

The new system is a revision of the Net rating. Therefore, nobody's lying here. It's just a matter of the numbers being noted so. Numbers based on the latest revised system will be stated as so, and the previous "regular" Net rating numbers will just simply say SAE Net.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Correct. J2723 is the key difference here.

In a nutshell, there are three different main testing methods you should know --

SAE Gross, SAE Net, and SAE Net revision J2723.

SAE Gross was a rating that measured the power out of an engine by itself with no accessories in order to achieve the maximum numbers possible.

SAE Net was implemented to fix these variables, and to provide more realistic numbers. SAE Net has been in use for decades and should be nothing new to us, at least to those of us who are younger than like 45 years old. If you're older than that, then you might have lived through the SAE Gross stage.

Now the J2723 revision is precisely that -- a revision of the SAE system once again to provide more realistic numbers based on today's standards.

So those of you who keep saying "Oh, Nissan HAS BEEN using SAE Net", well... I hope this cleared it up for you. EVERY SINGLE automobile manufacturer today uses SAE Net; they have been for decades. But only a handful have adopted the J2723 revision; the numbers may go up or down compared to the previous system. But that shouldn't matter at all, because the fact is that we're now getting more realistic numbers. So umm... I say this in the nicest way possible -- quit bitching.

sweetride01

I'm with PeterUbers... it feels like my 560hp semi only has 105hp... it seems like the Camry's 210hp is working MUCH harder... Toyota are really raising some great horses these days...

Parker75

According to the NCTD article http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.cf...L&ReviewID=1757 the last sentence of the first page says ...

"A tire-pressure monitoring system (TPMS) notifies the driver if tire pressure sinks to dangerous levels."

So, I infer that this is just a warning system and does not provide a displayed value for each tire.

rets

Thanks for the further explanation.

So, what's difference btwn J2723 and J1349?

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

The key difference is that the J2723 requires third party certification. They bring in an SAE-certified party to watch over the engine testing process. Therefore, there is no internal fussing with the numbers, and everybody is happy.

Manufacturer - conforming to the voluntary standards will cost more money to bring in the 3rd party for certification, but it looks good for the company and gets credit for using the more honest system, which provides more realistc numbers.

Third party - responsible for correctly performing the testing procedure, gets paid, goes home happy.

Consumers - receives more honest, realistic numbers at the cost of the manufacturer, but recognizes them for doing so since not everyone does it yet.


In my book, companies such as Ford and DCX (refusing to adopting the new system, or saying they have no plans to do so at this time) lost credibility in my book. Especially with Ford messing up the '99 Cobra's horsepower rating accompanied by other recent problems, I would automatically assume that their published horsepower rating would be lower if they were to have used the new system. But that's just me. Even though there is no formula to figure out the difference between the previous and the new, just like the SAE Net and SAE Gross, there is a general range of difference and that's what I would use to figure that out. So if Acura says their new car has 258 hp, and Ford says their latest sports sedan also has 258, then I will know who's got better horses.

Mike_TX

Well, it has to be said that some mfr's used things like different engine maps (spark advance, fuel mixtures, etc.), low-drag power steering pumps, low-level (low splashing loss) oilpans, and even premium gas in regular-gas engines, to achieve higher numbers under the SAE Net HP tests. One of the main features of J2723 is a level playing field ... everyone has to use REAL production parts and the same lubricants and fuels specified for the production car.

To the extent they did NOT do this, their hp and torque numbers were "fudged", pure and simple. So, it is techically and factually incorrect to say Acura's correction from 270hp to 258hp in the 3.2liter is just "juggling numbers". Yes, the horsepower is the same as it always was, but Honda/Acura obviously played some games when they coaxed 270hp out of their test engines. After all, their marketing guys wanted to trump the competition and advertise a bigger number ...