**OFFICIAL RLX THREAD** Update p.14: Prod. car to debut in LA 11/28
07-15-2012, 10:40 AM
#441
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
Interestingly I was told the same thing yesterday while I was getting my B1 service.
Not sure were the truth is, but I was told Honda is exploring the issues with import regulations around a 2014 model. Apparently there is a window after the calendar year (January) before in imported model can be brought in as a future model year? I will say the dealer manager I spoke with did have very accurate details, which typically I know more than they do.
This may also support the reports that either the 1st year would be a JDM build versus more recent reports that the RL(X) will be initiated as a US build.
Either way, retooling an assembly plant for a new model can take up to 6 months...so a decision has to be made....and soon.
Not sure were the truth is, but I was told Honda is exploring the issues with import regulations around a 2014 model. Apparently there is a window after the calendar year (January) before in imported model can be brought in as a future model year? I will say the dealer manager I spoke with did have very accurate details, which typically I know more than they do.
This may also support the reports that either the 1st year would be a JDM build versus more recent reports that the RL(X) will be initiated as a US build.
Either way, retooling an assembly plant for a new model can take up to 6 months...so a decision has to be made....and soon.
07-15-2012, 02:07 PM
#442
Drifting
Now, I don't think the RLX is going to weigh 5,000lbs. I was just using those numbers to prove a point. Best in class horsepower means nothing if it's stuffed into an overweight chassis. Given Honda/Acura's track record, I will be surprised if the RLX weighs the same or less than the outgoing RL. If you look at the history of every single vehicle Honda has produced over the last 3-4 decades from the Civic to the Legend/RL they have gained weight with every new generation...every single one of them.
It is possible that the FWD RLX will weigh the same or less than the outgoing RL. That's not the model that I'll be comparing to the current RL. Going from AWD to FWD is a downgrade, I don't care how you look at it. I'm only going to be comparing the AWD RLX to the current RL. I know that the current RL has a pretty hefty AWD system and the RLX will do away with the heavy mechanical parts like the driveshaft and differential...but it's also going to add in battery packs, a heavy charging system and electric motors, all of which are heavy items. I don't think the loss of the mechanical AWD system is going to make up for the addition of the new electric components when it comes to curb weight. Add that to Honda's history of constantly adding heft to every new generation and I think there's a very good chance the RLX SH-SH-AWD is going to weigh more than the current RL.
Is it going to weigh so much that it negates the added power over the outgoing RL? I don't think so. Is it going to weigh enough to where "best in class horsepower" doesn't add up to best in class power-to-weight ratio? Most likely.
07-15-2012, 08:42 PM
#443
Senior Moderator
So will there be a 2013 RL since Acura is now officially saying that the RLX will be a 2014 model released in early 2013? Probably not.
07-16-2012, 10:46 AM
#444
Ya, so now do I get a tl advance shawd, and take a hit when the RL comes out? They have great deals, invoice plus 2500 plus 1000 loyalty. Almost a 20 grand difference between the loaded TL and a GS 350 Awd F - sport.
07-16-2012, 10:54 AM
#445
07-16-2012, 12:01 PM
#446
Senior Moderator
All I was saying is that the horsepower figure means absolutely nothing. It's all about power-to-weight ratio. The current RL is basically 4,000lbs and 300hp which equates to 13.3lbs/hp or .075hp/lb depending on how you look at it. If the new RLX comes to market with a 5,000lb curb weight it would have a 13.5lbs/hp or .074hp/lbs ratio.
Now, I don't think the RLX is going to weigh 5,000lbs. I was just using those numbers to prove a point. Best in class horsepower means nothing if it's stuffed into an overweight chassis. Given Honda/Acura's track record, I will be surprised if the RLX weighs the same or less than the outgoing RL. If you look at the history of every single vehicle Honda has produced over the last 3-4 decades from the Civic to the Legend/RL they have gained weight with every new generation...every single one of them.
It is possible that the FWD RLX will weigh the same or less than the outgoing RL. That's not the model that I'll be comparing to the current RL. Going from AWD to FWD is a downgrade, I don't care how you look at it. I'm only going to be comparing the AWD RLX to the current RL. I know that the current RL has a pretty hefty AWD system and the RLX will do away with the heavy mechanical parts like the driveshaft and differential...but it's also going to add in battery packs, a heavy charging system and electric motors, all of which are heavy items. I don't think the loss of the mechanical AWD system is going to make up for the addition of the new electric components when it comes to curb weight. Add that to Honda's history of constantly adding heft to every new generation and I think there's a very good chance the RLX SH-SH-AWD is going to weigh more than the current RL.
Is it going to weigh so much that it negates the added power over the outgoing RL? I don't think so. Is it going to weigh enough to where "best in class horsepower" doesn't add up to best in class power-to-weight ratio? Most likely.
Now, I don't think the RLX is going to weigh 5,000lbs. I was just using those numbers to prove a point. Best in class horsepower means nothing if it's stuffed into an overweight chassis. Given Honda/Acura's track record, I will be surprised if the RLX weighs the same or less than the outgoing RL. If you look at the history of every single vehicle Honda has produced over the last 3-4 decades from the Civic to the Legend/RL they have gained weight with every new generation...every single one of them.
It is possible that the FWD RLX will weigh the same or less than the outgoing RL. That's not the model that I'll be comparing to the current RL. Going from AWD to FWD is a downgrade, I don't care how you look at it. I'm only going to be comparing the AWD RLX to the current RL. I know that the current RL has a pretty hefty AWD system and the RLX will do away with the heavy mechanical parts like the driveshaft and differential...but it's also going to add in battery packs, a heavy charging system and electric motors, all of which are heavy items. I don't think the loss of the mechanical AWD system is going to make up for the addition of the new electric components when it comes to curb weight. Add that to Honda's history of constantly adding heft to every new generation and I think there's a very good chance the RLX SH-SH-AWD is going to weigh more than the current RL.
Is it going to weigh so much that it negates the added power over the outgoing RL? I don't think so. Is it going to weigh enough to where "best in class horsepower" doesn't add up to best in class power-to-weight ratio? Most likely.
1) The reason for the additional weight of each new model is added safety features, most of which were government regulation/requirements. I'm pretty sure they are running out of safety systems to add on.
2) I am not as interested in HP as I am in torque as the torque is much more useful in 99.9% of driving. The torque numbers being thrown out there are ridiculous. The current large luxury sedan market has the Jaguar XJL leading the pack with 380 ft*lb out of a 5.0L V8. Curb weight? 4132 lbs. Just for giggles, the Equus and Jag are tied for HP at 385. The Equus? 4502 lbs. They are talking 440+ ft*lb for the RLX.
3) You are only talking about HP at the fly wheel. We all know the current RL is underpowered even though it has comparable engine power to everything else in the 2005 class. Why? Because the drive train will only give us ~210 hp at the wheels. Take the 30% loss of the current setup, switch it over to a FWD with an electric motor in the tranny, assume 20% worst case, and you have 240-250 on the front wheels alone. The rear wheels will each be getting ~25 hp, so we are now talking 300+ hp on the wheels.
I'm not sure what cars in the mid-size class you think will be putting up similar numbers with less weight, but I would like to know.
BTW, the R-spec is putting out 376 ft*lb and weighs 4154 lbs.
Last edited by oo7spy; 07-16-2012 at 12:04 PM.
07-16-2012, 01:05 PM
#447
A few things on this:
1) The reason for the additional weight of each new model is added safety features, most of which were government regulation/requirements. I'm pretty sure they are running out of safety systems to add on.
2) I am not as interested in HP as I am in torque as the torque is much more useful in 99.9% of driving. The torque numbers being thrown out there are ridiculous. The current large luxury sedan market has the Jaguar XJL leading the pack with 380 ft*lb out of a 5.0L V8. Curb weight? 4132 lbs. Just for giggles, the Equus and Jag are tied for HP at 385. The Equus? 4502 lbs. They are talking 440+ ft*lb for the RLX.
3) You are only talking about HP at the fly wheel. We all know the current RL is underpowered even though it has comparable engine power to everything else in the 2005 class. Why? Because the drive train will only give us ~210 hp at the wheels. Take the 30% loss of the current setup, switch it over to a FWD with an electric motor in the tranny, assume 20% worst case, and you have 240-250 on the front wheels alone. The rear wheels will each be getting ~25 hp, so we are now talking 300+ hp on the wheels.
I'm not sure what cars in the mid-size class you think will be putting up similar numbers with less weight, but I would like to know.
BTW, the R-spec is putting out 376 ft*lb and weighs 4154 lbs.
1) The reason for the additional weight of each new model is added safety features, most of which were government regulation/requirements. I'm pretty sure they are running out of safety systems to add on.
2) I am not as interested in HP as I am in torque as the torque is much more useful in 99.9% of driving. The torque numbers being thrown out there are ridiculous. The current large luxury sedan market has the Jaguar XJL leading the pack with 380 ft*lb out of a 5.0L V8. Curb weight? 4132 lbs. Just for giggles, the Equus and Jag are tied for HP at 385. The Equus? 4502 lbs. They are talking 440+ ft*lb for the RLX.
3) You are only talking about HP at the fly wheel. We all know the current RL is underpowered even though it has comparable engine power to everything else in the 2005 class. Why? Because the drive train will only give us ~210 hp at the wheels. Take the 30% loss of the current setup, switch it over to a FWD with an electric motor in the tranny, assume 20% worst case, and you have 240-250 on the front wheels alone. The rear wheels will each be getting ~25 hp, so we are now talking 300+ hp on the wheels.
I'm not sure what cars in the mid-size class you think will be putting up similar numbers with less weight, but I would like to know.
BTW, the R-spec is putting out 376 ft*lb and weighs 4154 lbs.
I think the e-AWD model will have sub 6 second 0-60 times. NSX will be even crazier
07-16-2012, 01:36 PM
#448
Senior Moderator
07-17-2012, 10:14 PM
#449
The new RLX will use more aluminum in the body and chassis to save weight, being spent on new safety features. The electric motors have great torque at all speeds, and they will be pushing the car, where the weight will transfer when you stomp on it. I expect 0-60 to be better than it's competitors. You'll be buying new tires often as you will be smoking them. Acura usually doesn't go for the best tires available and the rims tend to be heavy, but with a new emphasis on the electric drive, that may change for the RLX. They do call it sport hybrid so maybe the RLX will finally get some oomph. The concept used 20" rims, which looked cool and left room for the electric motors and nice drilled rotors. Those are not likely to see production as they can't be shaved down as things wear, but slotted ones can be. I see a lot of performance possibilities. I hope a revival of the A-SPEC version. No M-class or AMG treatment, but Acura could throw us a bone.
Last edited by BradMacPro; 07-17-2012 at 10:18 PM.
07-17-2012, 10:23 PM
#450
Senior Moderator
To be fair, the 2005 debuted with 20"s, 4-piston rear calipers, and slotted rotors. All of which missed production. 
Last edited by oo7spy; 07-17-2012 at 10:25 PM.
07-17-2012, 10:39 PM
#451
Drifting
...3) You are only talking about HP at the fly wheel. We all know the current RL is underpowered even though it has comparable engine power to everything else in the 2005 class. Why? Because the drive train will only give us ~210 hp at the wheels. Take the 30% loss of the current setup, switch it over to a FWD with an electric motor in the tranny, assume 20% worst case, and you have 240-250 on the front wheels alone. The rear wheels will each be getting ~25 hp, so we are now talking 300+ hp on the wheels...
This never ceases to amaze me on this forum. Acura exclusively uses Michelin and Bridgestone, (other than a couple recent models that come with Goodyears on the lower trims). Michelin and Bridgestone make the highest quality tires in the industry, period. If you want to see something silly, go buy a $60k BMW 5-series with Goodyear Eagle RS-A's. Drive around on those tires a bit and then see what your opinion on the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 is. Most of the new Kia and Hyundai cars come with Nexen or Kumho tires.
Acura does not skimp on tires.I always find it laughable in the 3rd gen TL forum when the guys that are running Falken FK-452's start bad mouthing the OEM Michelins.
Nothing against you Brad, but most of the guys on this forum wouldn't know a good tire if it bounced off the back of a truck and hit them in the head.
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oo7spy (07-18-2012)
07-18-2012, 09:01 AM
#452
Good call. I guess I wasn't really taking into account power loss through the drive train. It will definitely put down a much higher percentage to the wheels than the current RL.
This never ceases to amaze me on this forum. Acura exclusively uses Michelin and Bridgestone, (other than a couple recent models that come with Goodyears on the lower trims). Michelin and Bridgestone make the highest quality tires in the industry, period. If you want to see something silly, go buy a $60k BMW 5-series with Goodyear Eagle RS-A's. Drive around on those tires a bit and then see what your opinion on the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 is. Most of the new Kia and Hyundai cars come with Nexen or Kumho tires. Acura does not skimp on tires.
I always find it laughable in the 3rd gen TL forum when the guys that are running Falken FK-452's start bad mouthing the OEM Michelins.
Nothing against you Brad, but most of the guys on this forum wouldn't know a good tire if it bounced off the back of a truck and hit them in the head.
This never ceases to amaze me on this forum. Acura exclusively uses Michelin and Bridgestone, (other than a couple recent models that come with Goodyears on the lower trims). Michelin and Bridgestone make the highest quality tires in the industry, period. If you want to see something silly, go buy a $60k BMW 5-series with Goodyear Eagle RS-A's. Drive around on those tires a bit and then see what your opinion on the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 is. Most of the new Kia and Hyundai cars come with Nexen or Kumho tires.
Acura does not skimp on tires.I always find it laughable in the 3rd gen TL forum when the guys that are running Falken FK-452's start bad mouthing the OEM Michelins.
Nothing against you Brad, but most of the guys on this forum wouldn't know a good tire if it bounced off the back of a truck and hit them in the head.
I'd say what anyone thinks is a good tire is subjective. I personally cannot stand the tires that Honda has stock (specifically the particular michelin they use. Other higher quality michelins have been better to me)as I will prefer to sacrifice wear and road noise for wet, dry, and snow traction. Others may prefer to have a tire last for ~50K miles but dont care about certain traction (MxM4 lovers).
Best tires I've used to date (in terms of being perfect for me in wear and traction) were Yokohama Avid V-4 and Continental DWS. Just my opinion though
07-18-2012, 11:31 AM
#453
Senior Moderator
Sorry, but Acura chooses tires with gas mileage as a factor.
I will never forget the Bridgestone "Terroranzas" that came on my early-build 2004 TL. (I owned one of the first 1700 3G TLs, mine was #1684. ) Simply abysmal pieces of $hit that hydroplaned early. My complaint and those of others on the forum led to a change in the formulation of the Turanzas later in the model year.
So even "the best" make crappy tires sometimes. Just saying.
I will never forget the Bridgestone "Terroranzas" that came on my early-build 2004 TL. (I owned one of the first 1700 3G TLs, mine was #1684.
) Simply abysmal pieces of $hit that hydroplaned early. My complaint and those of others on the forum led to a change in the formulation of the Turanzas later in the model year.So even "the best" make crappy tires sometimes. Just saying.
07-18-2012, 09:00 PM
#454
I agree, the OEM on the 2006 RL had such bad reviews for snow and wet that as part of the deal I swapped them for Pilot A/S. As far as the RS-A they are now the new improved standard all season tire on the 19" SH-AWD TL.
OEM tires in general are not the best, for example the new 2013 GS350 AWD F-Sport 19" are in an obscure size and can only be had with Turenza 400 which are the lowest rated touring tire on tire rack.
Same with BMW the run flats are the goodyear LS, not really the best.
OEM tires in general are not the best, for example the new 2013 GS350 AWD F-Sport 19" are in an obscure size and can only be had with Turenza 400 which are the lowest rated touring tire on tire rack.
Same with BMW the run flats are the goodyear LS, not really the best.
07-19-2012, 06:37 AM
#455
If you can smoke the tires then I would want my money back. With AWD, traction control and a few more computers "helping" then it should be impossible to smoke the tires. Aggresive cornering with a 4000lb car is going to leave a mark but a luxury car as sophisticated as the RLX should never smoke tires.
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oo7spy (07-19-2012)
07-19-2012, 08:17 AM
#456
2020 Acura RLX Advance
OEM Tire Selection
Sorry, but Acura chooses tires with gas mileage as a factor.
I will never forget the Bridgestone "Terroranzas" that came on my early-build 2004 TL. (I owned one of the first 1700 3G TLs, mine was #1684. ) Simply abysmal pieces of $hit that hydroplaned early. My complaint and those of others on the forum led to a change in the formulation of the Turanzas later in the model year.
So even "the best" make crappy tires sometimes. Just saying.
I will never forget the Bridgestone "Terroranzas" that came on my early-build 2004 TL. (I owned one of the first 1700 3G TLs, mine was #1684.
) Simply abysmal pieces of $hit that hydroplaned early. My complaint and those of others on the forum led to a change in the formulation of the Turanzas later in the model year.So even "the best" make crappy tires sometimes. Just saying.
This is why sometimes an OEM "xyz" tire for example may have less wet grip than a non OEM same model "xyz" tire. The OEM may want to give up some wet traction to meet a stringent rolling resistance spec.
I spent 10 years in Detroit as a tire supplier rep to the OEMs. Each OEM has their set list of "Qualified" vendors and usually will have outside vendors bid on future business, but they would have to be fully qualified as a vendor 1st. Hyundai back in the 90's predominately used Michelin, just like Lincoln did in the '70s, as a halo effect to raise the perceived value of their brand. Now that Hyundai has effectively established their brand, they are using a lot of Hankook (and Nexen). I see Hankook on a lot of new cars........I am sure Hankook is practically giving these tires away to the OEM's as Pirelli did to Jaguar many years ago when they were Jags exclusive supplier.....Goodyear for many years had 80% of Chrysler's tire business as an Iacocca "gentleman's hand-shake" Thank You for extending CC very generous payment terms during their financial difficulties in the early '80s.
Back in the 90's Cadillac just used Goodyear and Michelin as Cadillac felt that their other suppliers, Continental-General, Uniroyal-BF Goodrich (owned by Michelin), and Bridgestone-Firestone did not have the proper image for Cadillac (although Firestone supplied the mini-spares for Caddy). The Corvette only used Goodyear due to Goodyear's support of racing.
So tire selection by an OEM is a very complicated process, and at times very interesting.
Ed
Last edited by CadiGTi; 07-19-2012 at 08:19 AM.
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07-19-2012, 08:08 PM
#457
RLX SH²-AWD
HondaLink: New Infotainment system
I thought this might be of relevance since it's about the new infotainment system. And it might be similar to the system that the new 2014 RLX will get.
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/hond...rd-157175.html
We recently caught a glimpse of the 2013 Honda Accord, which led us to believe the next-gen car would feature a new infotainment system. The spy shots revealed Pandora radio and new controls, but Honda just revealed HondaLink, its new cloud-based infotainment system.
Co-developed with Aha by Harman, Honda says the new system provides all the benefits of a smartphone without the distractions. Through the use of what it calls an intuitive interface, HondaLink’s setup brings a variety of apps such as Yelp and Slacker Radio, as well as audio books, podcasts from NPR, and destination-oriented content to the cockpit. Through the use of steering-wheel-mounted controls, in-dash controls, and voice commands, drivers can have their Facebook and Twitter feeds read aloud so they’re always in the know while they’re on the go. HondaLink will also incorporate Pandora and the voice-to-text SMS texting that was introduced in the 2012 CR-V.
Although the Fit EV is essentially the first Honda to use the new telematics system, that low-volume hatch uses an embedded telematics control system. The upcoming 2013 Honda Accord plug-in hybrid will also feature a version of the HondaLink EV, which the automaker says will allow drivers to remotely view the car’s state of charge and initiate charging. The latest version of HondaLink, which will appear in the refreshed Crosstour after the 2013 Accord, works via tethered smartphones. Drivers with iPhones can connect through a USB port, while Androids use Bluetooth. Honda also says the system requires few software updates, and that drivers may soon have the ability to connect an iPad in their vehicles. It’s not clear whether HondaLink will come standard in the new Accord; we’ll just have to wait to find out.
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/hond...rd-157175.html
We recently caught a glimpse of the 2013 Honda Accord, which led us to believe the next-gen car would feature a new infotainment system. The spy shots revealed Pandora radio and new controls, but Honda just revealed HondaLink, its new cloud-based infotainment system.
Co-developed with Aha by Harman, Honda says the new system provides all the benefits of a smartphone without the distractions. Through the use of what it calls an intuitive interface, HondaLink’s setup brings a variety of apps such as Yelp and Slacker Radio, as well as audio books, podcasts from NPR, and destination-oriented content to the cockpit. Through the use of steering-wheel-mounted controls, in-dash controls, and voice commands, drivers can have their Facebook and Twitter feeds read aloud so they’re always in the know while they’re on the go. HondaLink will also incorporate Pandora and the voice-to-text SMS texting that was introduced in the 2012 CR-V.
Although the Fit EV is essentially the first Honda to use the new telematics system, that low-volume hatch uses an embedded telematics control system. The upcoming 2013 Honda Accord plug-in hybrid will also feature a version of the HondaLink EV, which the automaker says will allow drivers to remotely view the car’s state of charge and initiate charging. The latest version of HondaLink, which will appear in the refreshed Crosstour after the 2013 Accord, works via tethered smartphones. Drivers with iPhones can connect through a USB port, while Androids use Bluetooth. Honda also says the system requires few software updates, and that drivers may soon have the ability to connect an iPad in their vehicles. It’s not clear whether HondaLink will come standard in the new Accord; we’ll just have to wait to find out.
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oo7spy (07-19-2012)
07-19-2012, 08:32 PM
#458
Senior Moderator
Quoted for awesomeness. Thank you very much for this post, I learned something new today. Doesn't stop the original EL42 Turanzas on the first few runs of the 2004 TL from being crap, though. 
I will say, the Pilot Sport OEM tires on my CTS-V are the opposite, the best tires I have ever had on any car, ever. Cadillac chose well.
Doesn't stop the original EL42 Turanzas on the first few runs of the 2004 TL from being crap, though. I will say, the Pilot Sport OEM tires on my CTS-V are the opposite, the best tires I have ever had on any car, ever. Cadillac chose well.Bob, the OEM's spec each out tire for each individual model car. The OEM's give target specs to their tire vendors (costs, rolling resistance, noise, uniformity, ride, handling, traction etc.....). GM actually has a "TPC" spec (tire performance criteria) molded onto the sidewall of every tire they put on their vehicles. BMW has a "star" molded onto the sidewalls of tires they spec. Believe it or not, tire development for a new car program can be as long as the new car program itself, 3 years. There is a lot of exhaustive testing and numerous changes made during the OEM tire development process. Excess production of OEM tires goes into the replacement tire inventory.
This is why sometimes an OEM "xyz" tire for example may have less wet grip than a non OEM same model "xyz" tire. The OEM may want to give up some wet traction to meet a stringent rolling resistance spec.
I spent 10 years in Detroit as a tire supplier rep to the OEMs. Each OEM has their set list of "Qualified" vendors and usually will have outside vendors bid on future business, but they would have to be fully qualified as a vendor 1st. Hyundai back in the 90's predominately used Michelin, just like Lincoln did in the '70s, as a halo effect to raise the perceived value of their brand. Now that Hyundai has effectively established their brand, they are using a lot of Hankook (and Nexen). I see Hankook on a lot of new cars........I am sure Hankook is practically giving these tires away to the OEM's as Pirelli did to Jaguar many years ago when they were Jags exclusive supplier.....Goodyear for many years had 80% of Chrysler's tire business as an Iacocca "gentleman's hand-shake" Thank You for extending CC very generous payment terms during their financial difficulties in the early '80s.
Back in the 90's Cadillac just used Goodyear and Michelin as Cadillac felt that their other suppliers, Continental-General, Uniroyal-BF Goodrich (owned by Michelin), and Bridgestone-Firestone did not have the proper image for Cadillac (although Firestone supplied the mini-spares for Caddy). The Corvette only used Goodyear due to Goodyear's support of racing.
So tire selection by an OEM is a very complicated process, and at times very interesting.
Ed
This is why sometimes an OEM "xyz" tire for example may have less wet grip than a non OEM same model "xyz" tire. The OEM may want to give up some wet traction to meet a stringent rolling resistance spec.
I spent 10 years in Detroit as a tire supplier rep to the OEMs. Each OEM has their set list of "Qualified" vendors and usually will have outside vendors bid on future business, but they would have to be fully qualified as a vendor 1st. Hyundai back in the 90's predominately used Michelin, just like Lincoln did in the '70s, as a halo effect to raise the perceived value of their brand. Now that Hyundai has effectively established their brand, they are using a lot of Hankook (and Nexen). I see Hankook on a lot of new cars........I am sure Hankook is practically giving these tires away to the OEM's as Pirelli did to Jaguar many years ago when they were Jags exclusive supplier.....Goodyear for many years had 80% of Chrysler's tire business as an Iacocca "gentleman's hand-shake" Thank You for extending CC very generous payment terms during their financial difficulties in the early '80s.
Back in the 90's Cadillac just used Goodyear and Michelin as Cadillac felt that their other suppliers, Continental-General, Uniroyal-BF Goodrich (owned by Michelin), and Bridgestone-Firestone did not have the proper image for Cadillac (although Firestone supplied the mini-spares for Caddy). The Corvette only used Goodyear due to Goodyear's support of racing.
So tire selection by an OEM is a very complicated process, and at times very interesting.
Ed
07-19-2012, 09:03 PM
#459
Drifting
Okay, I will give you that the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 is not their best tire. I do however stand behind the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4, (Probably Acura's most commonly used OEM tire). They are probably one of the quietest, smoothest riding tires on the planet. It also has decent snow traction and, when not heavily abused, has a good tread life.
Since so many people around here are so dead set on TireRack reviews and tests here are the test results on the HX MXM4 versus the competition, (including the Goodyear Eagle RS-A):
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....=Pilot+HX+MXM4
Consumer reviews mean nothing to me when it comes to tires honestly. Tires need to be compared head to head on the same vehicle, new vs new. Consumers have no way of doing that. Most people that review a tire compare their new tires against the old worn out tires they are replacing. Is a brand new Continental DWS going to seem quieter than a worn out Michelin? Of course it is. I would put money on it that if you put did an actual decibel test between a new set of Michelin Pilot HX MXM4's and the Continental DWS the Michelin would come out on top.
BTW, Acura has recently been using the newer Michelin Primacy MXM4 on some vehicles. Again, this tire scored the highest rating by TireRack in a recent head to head test:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=138
Since so many people around here are so dead set on TireRack reviews and tests here are the test results on the HX MXM4 versus the competition, (including the Goodyear Eagle RS-A):
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....=Pilot+HX+MXM4
Consumer reviews mean nothing to me when it comes to tires honestly. Tires need to be compared head to head on the same vehicle, new vs new. Consumers have no way of doing that. Most people that review a tire compare their new tires against the old worn out tires they are replacing. Is a brand new Continental DWS going to seem quieter than a worn out Michelin? Of course it is. I would put money on it that if you put did an actual decibel test between a new set of Michelin Pilot HX MXM4's and the Continental DWS the Michelin would come out on top.
BTW, Acura has recently been using the newer Michelin Primacy MXM4 on some vehicles. Again, this tire scored the highest rating by TireRack in a recent head to head test:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=138
Last edited by BDoggPrelude; 07-19-2012 at 09:05 PM.
07-21-2012, 08:28 PM
#460
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
The next generation of AcuraLink will be introduced with the RLX. As expected an ONSTAR like feature will be introduced to AcuraLink, smart phone integrations and cellular internet. HondaLink will launch with the Accord, and many details are already published, so it will be curious to find what AcuraLink offers to position above HondaLink.
"The RLX will also feature the first application of the next-generation AcuraLink® Communication System, which incorporates built-in two-way cellular communication to deliver an array of new convenience features, including airbag deployment notification, stolen vehicle tracking, remote locking and unlocking, security alarm notification and concierge service.
An all-new, 14-speaker ultra premium audio system will be offered in addition to Acura's award winning ELS Surround® sound system. Both audio systems provide MP3 connectivity via USB along with integration of HD radio™, Pandora® internet radio interface and Aha Radio® interface via Bluetooth® smart phone pairing. Using Aha, RLX drivers can choose from thousands of web-based audio stations, including music, live news, podcasts, audio books, personalized points of interest, and audio newsfeeds from Facebook and Twitter. In addition, a new Acura-exclusive smart phone application integrates smart phone functions (such as email, text messaging and contacts) into the RLX's on-demand touch screen functions. Bluetooth® HandsFreeLink® calling and pre-loaded text message replies provide for easy two-way communication.
The RLX also will be available with Acura Navigation System with Voice Recognition™. This innovative system offers the driver a wide range of search options including Bing™ search functionality and the option for an AcuraLink® concierge to send a destination to the vehicle's navigation system. In addition, the RLX navigation system will feature AcuraLink Real-Time Traffic™ for both highways and surface streets."
http://www.acuranews.com/channels/ac...ut-in-new-york
"The RLX will also feature the first application of the next-generation AcuraLink® Communication System, which incorporates built-in two-way cellular communication to deliver an array of new convenience features, including airbag deployment notification, stolen vehicle tracking, remote locking and unlocking, security alarm notification and concierge service.
An all-new, 14-speaker ultra premium audio system will be offered in addition to Acura's award winning ELS Surround® sound system. Both audio systems provide MP3 connectivity via USB along with integration of HD radio™, Pandora® internet radio interface and Aha Radio® interface via Bluetooth® smart phone pairing. Using Aha, RLX drivers can choose from thousands of web-based audio stations, including music, live news, podcasts, audio books, personalized points of interest, and audio newsfeeds from Facebook and Twitter. In addition, a new Acura-exclusive smart phone application integrates smart phone functions (such as email, text messaging and contacts) into the RLX's on-demand touch screen functions. Bluetooth® HandsFreeLink® calling and pre-loaded text message replies provide for easy two-way communication.
The RLX also will be available with Acura Navigation System with Voice Recognition™. This innovative system offers the driver a wide range of search options including Bing™ search functionality and the option for an AcuraLink® concierge to send a destination to the vehicle's navigation system. In addition, the RLX navigation system will feature AcuraLink Real-Time Traffic™ for both highways and surface streets."
http://www.acuranews.com/channels/ac...ut-in-new-york
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oo7spy (07-21-2012)
07-21-2012, 09:12 PM
#461
Good luck with that.
07-21-2012, 10:08 PM
#462
Senior Moderator
The current RL base doesn't have a Nav. The RLX base will have 4-wheel steer to compensate for the understeer inherent to FWD. Acura has it's own magnetorheological shocks in the MDX. Are you sure the RLX won't have them?
The only argument that leaves you is on styling which is subjective at best. Complacent is worlds better than offensive.
It doesn't seem Acura needs your luck.
The only argument that leaves you is on styling which is subjective at best. Complacent is worlds better than offensive.
It doesn't seem Acura needs your luck.
07-21-2012, 10:38 PM
#463
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
The word "available" leaps off the page at me. So the RLX will go out the door for about 50 large, without all-wheel drive OR a nav system OR any semblance of styling. And they'll try to sell people on the FWD version being technically advanced in its steering and handling, even though it doesn't have either GM's torque-steer-minimizing geometry or GM's (GM's!) widely praised magnetorheological shocks.
Good luck with that.
Good luck with that.
The RLX is supposedly Acura's answer to being a real flagship. And Acura as a brand known for high content and minimal option packaging. Launching a $50K+ vehicle in a market where NAVI is standard in cars of the $20K bracket is ridiculous. A stripper RLX will most certainly undermine Acura's shot at a credible flagship. It also contradicts the ADVANCE smart luxo/tech theme they are trying to promote.
I have been very critical of Acura since the 2009 styling language farce. But I see signs of maturity and sophistication returning to the brand. I am watching the RLX very closely. Even if I decide not to buy one, it may determine if I buy any other Acura.
Last edited by TampaRLX-SH; 07-21-2012 at 10:51 PM.
07-22-2012, 12:10 AM
#464
The current RL base doesn't have a Nav. The RLX base will have 4-wheel steer to compensate for the understeer inherent to FWD. Acura has it's own magnetorheological shocks in the MDX. Are you sure the RLX won't have them?
The only argument that leaves you is on styling which is subjective at best. Complacent is worlds better than offensive.
It doesn't seem Acura needs your luck.
The only argument that leaves you is on styling which is subjective at best. Complacent is worlds better than offensive.
It doesn't seem Acura needs your luck.
"A new technology for Acura, Amplitude Reactive Dampers are used on the 2013 RDX to provide a superior level of ride comfort together with crisp, precise handling. The dampers operate in two distinct performance parameters, including a Ride Zone and a Handling Zone. Each zone has a unique set of compression and rebound damping forces tailored to provide the desired ride and handling attributes. In essence, the amplitude reactive dampers operate like two separate suspension systems combined in one. The new dampers are entirely mechanical in operation with NO ELECTRONICS required (emphasis mine)."
In other words, quite probably they're simple dual-chamber shocks. No magnetic fluid, no instantaneous adaptation.
But that's okay, I didn't have any luck to give them anyway. :.)
07-22-2012, 11:47 AM
#465
Senior Moderator
RDX <> RLX. What's your point? The MDX carries most of the big features that the RL does and adds magnetorheological suspension and blind spot monitoring. Subsequently, it is priced similar to the RL. The RDX is an entry SUV priced well below the MDX and RL. I don't get what basis you have for assuming the RLX won't have it if it needs it.
07-22-2012, 11:56 AM
#466
RDX <> RLX. What's your point? The MDX carries most of the big features that the RL does and adds magnetorheological suspension and blind spot monitoring. Subsequently, it is priced similar to the RL. The RDX is an entry SUV priced well below the MDX and RL. I don't get what basis you have for assuming the RLX won't have it if it needs it.
Except maybe for 4-wheel steering (if that's standard either), the brutal truth is that just going off the stat sheet -- which is what most buyers do -- the base version of this car will be spec'd out basically like a Camry-based Lexus ES with a sport-tuned suspension, with less brand equity and $15,000 more on the sticker. In this marketplace, that's dead on arrival.
I don't doubt whether the RLX will be a good car to own and drive. That's not the issue. The issue to me is whether Acura is serious about selling cars and remaining viable. And so far, IMHO, their management of this new model leaves that very much in question.
07-22-2012, 05:45 PM
#467
Alpha Geek
Consumer reviews mean nothing to me when it comes to tires honestly. Tires need to be compared head to head on the same vehicle, new vs new. Consumers have no way of doing that. Most people that review a tire compare their new tires against the old worn out tires they are replacing. Is a brand new Continental DWS going to seem quieter than a worn out Michelin? Of course it is. I would put money on it that if you put did an actual decibel test between a new set of Michelin Pilot HX MXM4's and the Continental DWS the Michelin would come out on top.
BTW, Acura has recently been using the newer Michelin Primacy MXM4 on some vehicles. Again, this tire scored the highest rating by TireRack in a recent head to head test:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=138
Nope, OEM Michelins are the worst tires I've ever used in my 30+ years of driving.
07-22-2012, 07:48 PM
#468
Drifting
I have extensaive experience with Acuras\Hondas and Michelins....2 Accords, 5 Integras\RSXs, 2 RDXs and currently my '06 RL non tech going on my 3rd set of tires....if I could have gotten rid of the OEM Michelins as soon as I bought the car, I would have...the ONLY thing OEM Michelins have going for them is tread life, they were noisy as a truck, and I never realized it until I replaced them with some Dunlops, and later Generals. The OEM Michelins were dowright SCARY in the wet or snow.
Nope, OEM Michelins are the worst tires I've ever used in my 30+ years of driving.
Nope, OEM Michelins are the worst tires I've ever used in my 30+ years of driving.
07-22-2012, 11:19 PM
#469
Senior Moderator
007, my point was that Acura said what kind of shock technology they'd have on the FWD version of the car, and it wasn't today's secret sauce, the magnetic ones.
Except maybe for 4-wheel steering (if that's standard either), the brutal truth is that just going off the stat sheet -- which is what most buyers do -- the base version of this car will be spec'd out basically like a Camry-based Lexus ES with a sport-tuned suspension, with less brand equity and $15,000 more on the sticker. In this marketplace, that's dead on arrival.
I don't doubt whether the RLX will be a good car to own and drive. That's not the issue. The issue to me is whether Acura is serious about selling cars and remaining viable. And so far, IMHO, their management of this new model leaves that very much in question.
Except maybe for 4-wheel steering (if that's standard either), the brutal truth is that just going off the stat sheet -- which is what most buyers do -- the base version of this car will be spec'd out basically like a Camry-based Lexus ES with a sport-tuned suspension, with less brand equity and $15,000 more on the sticker. In this marketplace, that's dead on arrival.
I don't doubt whether the RLX will be a good car to own and drive. That's not the issue. The issue to me is whether Acura is serious about selling cars and remaining viable. And so far, IMHO, their management of this new model leaves that very much in question.
Also, you do realize I brought up a point about the MDX, and you retorted with a release about the RDX; right? I still don't understand the significance of that release in regards to the RLX.
07-22-2012, 11:25 PM
#470
All I was saying is that the horsepower figure means absolutely nothing. It's all about power-to-weight ratio. The current RL is basically 4,000lbs and 300hp which equates to 13.3lbs/hp or .075hp/lb depending on how you look at it. If the new RLX comes to market with a 5,000lb curb weight it would have a 13.5lbs/hp or .074hp/lbs ratio.
Now, I don't think the RLX is going to weigh 5,000lbs. I was just using those numbers to prove a point. Best in class horsepower means nothing if it's stuffed into an overweight chassis. Given Honda/Acura's track record, I will be surprised if the RLX weighs the same or less than the outgoing RL. If you look at the history of every single vehicle Honda has produced over the last 3-4 decades from the Civic to the Legend/RL they have gained weight with every new generation...every single one of them.
It is possible that the FWD RLX will weigh the same or less than the outgoing RL. That's not the model that I'll be comparing to the current RL. Going from AWD to FWD is a downgrade, I don't care how you look at it. I'm only going to be comparing the AWD RLX to the current RL. I know that the current RL has a pretty hefty AWD system and the RLX will do away with the heavy mechanical parts like the driveshaft and differential...but it's also going to add in battery packs, a heavy charging system and electric motors, all of which are heavy items. I don't think the loss of the mechanical AWD system is going to make up for the addition of the new electric components when it comes to curb weight. Add that to Honda's history of constantly adding heft to every new generation and I think there's a very good chance the RLX SH-SH-AWD is going to weigh more than the current RL.
Is it going to weigh so much that it negates the added power over the outgoing RL? I don't think so. Is it going to weigh enough to where "best in class horsepower" doesn't add up to best in class power-to-weight ratio? Most likely.
Now, I don't think the RLX is going to weigh 5,000lbs. I was just using those numbers to prove a point. Best in class horsepower means nothing if it's stuffed into an overweight chassis. Given Honda/Acura's track record, I will be surprised if the RLX weighs the same or less than the outgoing RL. If you look at the history of every single vehicle Honda has produced over the last 3-4 decades from the Civic to the Legend/RL they have gained weight with every new generation...every single one of them.
It is possible that the FWD RLX will weigh the same or less than the outgoing RL. That's not the model that I'll be comparing to the current RL. Going from AWD to FWD is a downgrade, I don't care how you look at it. I'm only going to be comparing the AWD RLX to the current RL. I know that the current RL has a pretty hefty AWD system and the RLX will do away with the heavy mechanical parts like the driveshaft and differential...but it's also going to add in battery packs, a heavy charging system and electric motors, all of which are heavy items. I don't think the loss of the mechanical AWD system is going to make up for the addition of the new electric components when it comes to curb weight. Add that to Honda's history of constantly adding heft to every new generation and I think there's a very good chance the RLX SH-SH-AWD is going to weigh more than the current RL.
Is it going to weigh so much that it negates the added power over the outgoing RL? I don't think so. Is it going to weigh enough to where "best in class horsepower" doesn't add up to best in class power-to-weight ratio? Most likely.
07-23-2012, 06:40 AM
#471
6th Gear
Join Date: Jul 2012
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V-8 or a much more powerful V-6
I wonder how the rl sales figures were in 2006-2007 vs the same competitors? Probably better but not a whole lot I suspect.
The failure of the RL to be competitive wasn't because the RL is or was a bad car....it was perception. In the $50k price point where the RLwas...people wanted something that said "I have more money than you", and an Acura doesn't do that as well as a BMW or Mercedes.
Acura could have made the 2g RL a tad sportier, a bit faster....and gone more dad to head with the fer,and,..they opted to do it the way they did.....and the results are in the sales figures. The stats don't lie, the rl doesn't sell well.....but for those of us who bought one.it doesn't really matter. The rl is a great car. The sales figures and car magazine reviews also don't take into consideration the fact that the guy in the BMW will be taking it up the a$$ in the service department while I am zipping around with no mechanical issues in my "boring" and "uncompetitive" Acura! Hahaha
Back to the new car....I don't really mind the name change. If a name change helps them sell more..good. Maybe the X will help market that it is AWD. The BMW competition that is all wheel drive have an X in their names...so if a BMW shopper comes to an Acura dealer, maybe it reinforces the SH-AWD feature?
Does this mean they need to rename the TSX the TS? Or they will drop it totally? My guess is TSX is gone. The new ILX will replace the TSX. They are close in size to one another..which has been a problem for Acura in the past. The TSX was too similar to the old 3G TL, the 4g TL was too close in size to the RL....they need to have a lineup that has less overlap.
I'm guessing the new RL will be larger than the current TL. if they drop the TSX, their sedans will then be more differentiated from one another.
Will we have
ILX
RDX
MDX
RLX
NSX
And a TL renamed TLX? Maybe they will drop all FWD TLs? I can't imagine they would when so many of their current sellers are fwd...unless they find a way to add AWD to all their existing models but maintain competitive pricing???
The failure of the RL to be competitive wasn't because the RL is or was a bad car....it was perception. In the $50k price point where the RLwas...people wanted something that said "I have more money than you", and an Acura doesn't do that as well as a BMW or Mercedes.
Acura could have made the 2g RL a tad sportier, a bit faster....and gone more dad to head with the fer,and,..they opted to do it the way they did.....and the results are in the sales figures. The stats don't lie, the rl doesn't sell well.....but for those of us who bought one.it doesn't really matter. The rl is a great car. The sales figures and car magazine reviews also don't take into consideration the fact that the guy in the BMW will be taking it up the a$$ in the service department while I am zipping around with no mechanical issues in my "boring" and "uncompetitive" Acura! Hahaha
Back to the new car....I don't really mind the name change. If a name change helps them sell more..good. Maybe the X will help market that it is AWD. The BMW competition that is all wheel drive have an X in their names...so if a BMW shopper comes to an Acura dealer, maybe it reinforces the SH-AWD feature?
Does this mean they need to rename the TSX the TS? Or they will drop it totally? My guess is TSX is gone. The new ILX will replace the TSX. They are close in size to one another..which has been a problem for Acura in the past. The TSX was too similar to the old 3G TL, the 4g TL was too close in size to the RL....they need to have a lineup that has less overlap.
I'm guessing the new RL will be larger than the current TL. if they drop the TSX, their sedans will then be more differentiated from one another.
Will we have
ILX
RDX
MDX
RLX
NSX
And a TL renamed TLX? Maybe they will drop all FWD TLs? I can't imagine they would when so many of their current sellers are fwd...unless they find a way to add AWD to all their existing models but maintain competitive pricing???
07-23-2012, 08:37 AM
#472
Senior Moderator
Please tell me you didn't read all 12 pages before that comment.
07-23-2012, 08:46 AM
#473
Would you so kindly refer me to this stat sheet you speak of and whatever article showed what suspension was going into the RLX?
Also, you do realize I brought up a point about the MDX, and you retorted with a release about the RDX; right? I still don't understand the significance of that release in regards to the RLX.
Also, you do realize I brought up a point about the MDX, and you retorted with a release about the RDX; right? I still don't understand the significance of that release in regards to the RLX.
On the first question, the_razor posted this on the previous page of this thread:
"Going bit technical I copied from autoblog.com...
'The production RLX will also be available sans electric-AWD system, with 310 horsepower coming solely from the 3.5-liter V6. The front-wheel-drive version will feature a plethora of technology that improves handling, including Amplitude Reactive Dampers, a new double-wishbone front suspension and a multi-link rear suspension.'"
On the second, I really wasn't responding specifically to your MDX comments. I cited the RDX part just because it contained Acura's own description of what they meant by "amplitude reactive dampers." It's unlikely they'd use that exact term to describe the shocks in another Acura model if the RLX's shocks used an entirely different, and MORE advanced, technology of their own. In other words I was just establishing through Acura's definition of the term (coincidentally, for the RDX) that what sounds like the same technology in the base RLX is not a form of magnetic shocks.
The following users liked this post:
oo7spy (07-23-2012)
07-23-2012, 09:00 AM
#474
Senior Moderator
Thanks for bringing up that article again. Now I understand, and your correlation seems valid.
I suppose my only question is then, "why does the RLX NEED a magnetic suspension?"
I suppose my only question is then, "why does the RLX NEED a magnetic suspension?"
07-23-2012, 09:46 AM
#475
I can't say the RLX "needs" a magnetic suspension, any more than it needs the most advanced AWD system ever fitted to a mass production sedan. I just cited it as one of the several areas where, if you're going to offer a car with dull styling and no V8, you'd better have the very best technology throughout the car if you're going to get enough people to accept it as being worth their $50,000. And the consensus of road testers these days seems to be that the best ride-handling compromise is achieved with the help of, among other things, magnetic shocks.
There's a lot of other choices in the midsize luxury class out there now that don't have BMW badges, but pack a lot of value. To the average person, the larger, Mercedes-looking and V8-powered Genesis R-Spec 5.0 packs more car for less money than the RDX. For Acura, that's a real problem.
We on this board know from our RL experience that the RDX is likely to be rock-solid and better built than the Genesis. But to catch people's eye, it also needs sex-appeal features throughout the car. Not having those features might be perfectly adequate engineering, but it's a fatal failure of marketing. And as we saw with the slow sales of the brilliant RL, marketing really matters.
07-23-2012, 11:39 AM
#476
Senior Moderator
To the average person, the larger, Mercedes-looking and V8-powered Genesis R-Spec 5.0 packs more car for less money than the RDX. For Acura, that's a real problem.
We on this board know from our RL experience that the RDX is likely to be rock-solid and better built than the Genesis.
We on this board know from our RL experience that the RDX is likely to be rock-solid and better built than the Genesis.
What if you could have V8 power with I4 gas mileage in a V6? Would you still want that V8 just for the sake of wasting gas? Spending time in Car Talk with the "enthusiasts", the only benefit of the a V8 besides power is the sound that an American V8 can produce. The Japanese and Koreans don't let their V8s roar, and they get docked in the enthusiast reviews because of it. Even the Germans aren't too great because BMW has to route engine "sounds" through the speakers. So if the only thing you are looking for is power, assuming your Japanese V8 is quiet, then I don't see why the RLX will need a V8 since it can produce more power than every other V8 in its class with a V6. Unless of course you enjoy terrible MPGs just to win the dick measuring contests with the tools at car shows.
As for the magnetic dampers, GM's system in the CTS is only employed in the CTS-V and is the 3rd and sportiest level of suspension they offer in the CTS. From Wikipedia,
Originally Posted by Wikipedia, Magnetorheological damper
These types of systems are available from OEMs for several vehicles, including the Acura MDX, Audi TT and R8, Buick Lucerne, Cadillac CTS-V, DTS, XLR, SRX, STS, Chevrolet Corvette, Camaro ZL1, Ferrari 458 Italia, 599GTB, F12 Berlinetta and Holden HSV Commodore.
Last edited by oo7spy; 07-23-2012 at 11:44 AM.
07-24-2012, 05:22 AM
#477
I think that these shocks are excellent and would like to see them in the RLX but they are expensive and expensive to replace. My opinion is based on their performance in my MDX.
07-26-2012, 10:57 AM
#478
Alpha Geek
Cool story bro. I too have owned numerous Hondas and Acuras. When it comes to tires I work in the industry. I also have nearly 10 years of various types of racing under my belt so I know quite a bit about tires and how they handle, etc. Anybody who gives Generals a higher grade than Michelins has no credibility in my book.
Your racing experience(good for you) is irrelevant because I was talking about OEM tires, not slicks.
Michelin OEM tires for Honda\Acura are far worse in every aspect of comparison except tread life than the Generals I currently have on my RL, and the best part is, they were 1/3 the price. I am not a penny pincher when it comes to mine and my family's safety, and the OEM Michelins were DANGEROUS in the wet and snow. They scared me. In thinking about it, it's logical as the Michelin's longer tread life equates to inferior handling.
The only issue I have with the Generals is that they are a bit squirmy when brand new, but that problem disappears after a couple hundred miles.
07-26-2012, 05:56 PM
#479
Well, "working in the industry" gives you no cred in my book, so there you go.
Your racing experience(good for you) is irrelevant because I was talking about OEM tires, not slicks.
Michelin OEM tires for Honda\Acura are far worse in every aspect of comparison except tread life than the Generals I currently have on my RL, and the best part is, they were 1/3 the price. I am not a penny pincher when it comes to mine and my family's safety, and the OEM Michelins were DANGEROUS in the wet and snow. They scared me. In thinking about it, it's logical as the Michelin's longer tread life equates to inferior handling.
The only issue I have with the Generals is that they are a bit squirmy when brand new, but that problem disappears after a couple hundred miles.
Your racing experience(good for you) is irrelevant because I was talking about OEM tires, not slicks.
Michelin OEM tires for Honda\Acura are far worse in every aspect of comparison except tread life than the Generals I currently have on my RL, and the best part is, they were 1/3 the price. I am not a penny pincher when it comes to mine and my family's safety, and the OEM Michelins were DANGEROUS in the wet and snow. They scared me. In thinking about it, it's logical as the Michelin's longer tread life equates to inferior handling.
The only issue I have with the Generals is that they are a bit squirmy when brand new, but that problem disappears after a couple hundred miles.
Again, I think it clearly goes back to the observation by the OP of this tire sub-thread: the OEMs specify exactly the traits they want in a tire, and the tire makers obey. Like all the OEMs nowadays, Honda wants to eke out an extra MPG on the EPA cycle, and deliver long tread life so the owners don't complain that Honda stuck them with disposable tires. You want the tire maker's best performance effort, on most cars you'll have to go aftermarket for it.
07-26-2012, 06:11 PM
#480
Alpha Geek
Yet RL owners have reported that the aftermarket Michelin Pilot Sports M+S are outstanding in every condition.
Again, I think it clearly goes back to the observation by the OP of this tire sub-thread: the OEMs specify exactly the traits they want in a tire, and the tire makers obey. Like all the OEMs nowadays, Honda wants to eke out an extra MPG on the EPA cycle, and deliver long tread life so the owners don't complain that Honda stuck them with disposable tires. You want the tire maker's best performance effort, on most cars you'll have to go aftermarket for it.
Again, I think it clearly goes back to the observation by the OP of this tire sub-thread: the OEMs specify exactly the traits they want in a tire, and the tire makers obey. Like all the OEMs nowadays, Honda wants to eke out an extra MPG on the EPA cycle, and deliver long tread life so the owners don't complain that Honda stuck them with disposable tires. You want the tire maker's best performance effort, on most cars you'll have to go aftermarket for it.
was crowing about Michelin OEM tires, not aftermarket. In my over 25+ years of driving a Honda\Acura product not one OEM Michelin has been decent, again, other than tread life. When i replaced my Integra GSR's CRAP Michelin OEMs with Dunlop SP8000 Sports I was ASTOUNDED at the difference in Noise, Handling, and Wet traction. The SP8000s are still the best tire I ever owned.