wackjum

Looking at the leaked patent photos, the problem with the RL has always been that it doesn't "print" well.

Luxury cars have always had very imposing front ends and the appearance of a long substantial wheelbase. Even if the car itself is not physically longer, the wheels are typically pushed to the edges to make the car look longer.

You can take a look at the S-Class, 7-Series, Lexus LS to see this design in practice. Bentley and Rolls Royce have always done it. The smaller E and 5 series generally ape the larger designs.

Even the Acura Legend had a blunt and big (for the time) front end and a long wheelbase because of the longitudinal engine.

Good designers play off of human instincts to raise raw emotions. You notice boat and train horns are low loud noises? We associate low noises with big sizes. It would be mentally funny to imagine a huge boat with a high pitched squeak for a horn.

Hyundai and Infiniti have learned this and incorporated it into their designs and the Genesis and M look great and are selling well.

Part of buying a Luxury car is making a statement that hey, you're doing well.

Acura needs to take the RL and stretch out the wheel base a bit. It has the largest overhangs of any "flagship" car and so it looks very pedestrian. Acura will be in a losing battle trying to grow RL acceptance where the target market bases a lot of their decision on image and appearance. I guess as they have said themselves, they are aiming for smart understated luxury. I think that is a contradiction in terms.

jhr3uva90

The Infiniti M is selling well? Really? Compared to what, the 8-year-old Acura RL?

oo7spy

They did extend the RLX wheel base.

kssod

Jag XF AWD anyone???
Come on now Acura, the market for luxury premium sedans in the NE requires AWD, why no AWD until summer of 13?

wackjum

Since the 3rd gen redesign in 2005, it has been selling about the same as the Lexus GS. Look at the figures for the pre 2004 model, which was selling in RL range.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html



But it doesn't look substantial. It's all about appearances, and the RL/RLX doesn't appear big, imposing, opulent, and all of those other adjectives luxury buyers like.

neuronbob

I love the XF, especially supercharged, but it's just too unreliable for daily use. I have a colleague with one and it's always in the shop. Totally turned me off from actually owning one. I'd rather just order an RL and pay sticker than buy an XF. How about an Audi A6 or A7? Even Cadillac has the XTS and CTS as AWD vehicles. My Cadi has been surprisingly reliable.

gbriank

Neuronbob: Have you driven the XTS? If so, how does it compare to the RL?

dwboston

Those are actually the first two cars on my list: Audi A6 and Cadillac XTS. Saw the XTS in person and it's pretty nice. Early reviews on the CUE system aren't great though. The A6 might be the choice, but optioned out it's well over $60k.

getakey

Question on RLX hybrid debut
I bought the first edition 2G RL, i.e., the 2005. It had some problems that have been well documented, but nothing that kept me from ejoying the car to this date.
With the all new SH-SH-AWD, how many problems do you think will need to be ironed out the first year?

getakey

Wanted to edit above post, but time expired.
To clarify, I wondering best guess as to the reliability of the engine/drivetrain on the new RLX.
On the 2005 RL, the new AWD was very solid. The problems were with other minor aspects of the car.

neuronbob

As it happens, I drove an XTS about three weeks ago, when my car was in for service. It is DEFINITELY a Cadillac and not an RL.

Interior is really, really, good, much better than my CTS. It is the best interior I've ever seen in an American car. Nothing feels cheap in there.

The driving experience is not bad, either. You would think it was a boat, but it's not. The steering is pretty sharp for a car that size; it doesn't wander from lane to lane. Smoooooooth, compliant ride, but not so soft as to be the classic Cadi boat. I tossed it into a couple of curves and.....well, mild body roll and it plows. Nothing like an RL, which in a steep curve is planted and neutral.

The seats buzzing in reverse (sorry, forgot name of feature) is a cool feature. Goes to show you that we Americans aren't so dumb.

CUE was a little tough to use, but I only had the car for a couple of hours, not enough time to check it out.

On the whole, the RL and XTS are different types of car. The RL is effectively a sport sedan compared to the XTS, but the XTS can be driven assertively within limits. The XTS will sell to the DTS set like pancakes.

Even so, I was super-happy to get back into my CTS-V. 400 lb-ft of torque at idle......

wstr75

Just crossed over 100K last week on my 2006 RL. Hurry up RLX!
http://www.acura.com/future/RLX#3

jhr3uva90

It will be interesting to see how the RLX with FWD compares to the XTS.

neuronbob

I can almost guarantee that the RLX will be better-handling.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

I drove an SRX and if Acura doesnt bring it I will be V owner next year.

jhr3uva90

Will the FWD RLX really have better handling than the XTS? I wonder why.

TampaRLX-SH

There is 2 pages dedicated to the RLX in the current edition of Acura STYLE.

Not much new released. It does confirm the car with have new 2 way cellular access with the next generation of AcuraLinks along with concierge services (think ONSTAR) with web / smartphone apps and controls.

The only thing that stuck out as a surprise is the new, first ever for Acura sound system from Krell Industries.

I find it telling that the styling mentions include 'understated' and 'mature'.

A small step towards redemption.

George Knighton

Same here. Many of the new Jaguar designs look great. I love the way the XJ looks.

But owning one after owning Acura?

You'd never be satisfied.

You know, it's always been like that, too. We owned a Jaguar sedan when we lived in the UK, and in the time we owned it the rear end had to be replaced twice. There was evidently just too much power for it...and no explaining why they'd put such a weak part in such a powerful sedan.

George Knighton

Computer controlled active four wheel steering.

phishfood

I wonder if the second generation has regenerated into the third yet.

For those that don't know, this is how left over 2G Acura's change into 3G versions. Unfortunately Acura won't video tape this and show it to the public, so this is a visual approximation:


Basically they round all the old 2G's that haven't sold yet into a room and wait for that to happen. Then if they like them, they base new tooling on what comes out and start building copies.

TampaRLX-SH

I did some digging today but I could not find and buzz as to why Acura is going with Krell Industries for the audio system.

Initially with the RLX Concept unveiling and press release it indicated an ELS system, which made sense since the rest of the line up is now offering an ELS system.

Perhaps the contract with Panasonic / ELS is ending and they are launching a new relationship with Krell? Or maybe to elevate the RLX as a flagship this is the uber offering to compete closer to the Bang & Olufsen, Mark Levinson and Harmon Kardon ilk?

Krell is known for home systems, but I know not of any auto expertise.

CFoote

Krell is a small, very high-end audio company based here in CT. I've been to their HQ many times to tour the place and see new gear, in addition to having some equipment checked out.

The company has shifted gears over the years, with new owners and undertaking new business ventures. As we all know, the music industry is changing drastically and so is the customer. Krell cannot simply survive on $25,000 CD Players and $30,000 processors (yes, they cost that much).

Depending upon the cost of the system, I would suspect the Krell system to be very, very good. However, we all know there are budgets for projects and who knows what kind of budget Acura will give Krell. Time will tell

While not very well known, Krell is very well known for their amplifiers in the high-end audio world....

Chris

TampaRLX-SH

That is good info Chris....Thanks.

I knew Krell was a very high end home audio product. I never saw anything where they have expertise in auto audio.

I would assume this partnership serves both sides. It gives Krell a new market to establish while getting increased brand exposure through Acura.

From Acura's perspective it gives the RLX another 'first in industry' credence (as it did with SHAWD, Solar Sensing Climate Control, NavTraffic and now SH-SHAWD). I assume that is Acura's attempt to bring the RLX to the leading edge many brand flagships attempt.

They will have to promote Krell (as well as the damn car!) as I would think most consumers will not know the value of Krell whether they are mass consumers or auto-philes.

Even on the RL board in a thread focused on the RLX launch, I see no reaction or buzz (other than yours) to this change in feature content.

getakey

I thought krell was what whales eat

vybzkartel

Really, lol?

Try, krill...

getakey

duh

George Knighton

I didn't know what the devil ELS was before they did it, either.

:-)

Let's hope they do as good a job with Krell as they did with ELS. I'm still sometimes amazed at how good the ELS sounds.

EL19

iTrader: (4)

I think the ELS sounds good, when the speakers don't blow. I've been through 4 tweeters and two 6.5s already on the TSX. I have the treble 2 notches above center and the bass two notches below and the volume has never seen over 25. I will def be replacing the speakers in that car which I've never had to do with any other Acura I've owned (all Bose systems 1 legend, 2 TLs, an RL and now TSX)

oo7spy

I am an audio signal processing engineer and have never heard of Krell. I dont work in marketing, but still, I don't think they would make our tier 1 or even tier 2 customer groups without a major automaker contract.

L, are the speakers made by ELS? In a good stock car system, I expect a good amplifier with good processing and performance specs. I don't think I would ever expect good speakers to come stock. It's just not effective from a cost perspective.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

TampaRLX-SH

Krell Industries => http://www.krellonline.com/

I am finding Acura's engagement of Krell curiouser and curiouser.

They are a small company. Listed under 200 employees. Their products are uber expensive. They have no experience with automotive audio that I can find.

If Acura is trying to link the RLX to an uber brand....not many have heard of it. It also seems contrary to typical Honda fashion of using tried and true hardware, even if Acura is the showcase for advanced automobile technology.

I would just think a failed Krell audio system is not a cost effective repair or replacement either under warranty or afterward. Would Krell be able to support the supply channels?

But again, the RL / RLX are boutique vehicles and if this arrangement is only for the RLX, the supply channel will be small. Still, for Krell to develop a new system (especially with their extremely expensive technology), how can this be cost effective.

I know...it just the stereo system, but this does not fit the Honda model. And why change from the announced ELS system with the RLX concept reveal, to the Krell system announced for the production model in Acura STYLE?

neuronbob

How big was Eliot Scheiner (the "ELS" in ELS) prior to the contract with Acura starting in 2003? He engineered the audio system first in the 2004 TL, then the 2005 RL and subsequent Acuras. I suspect Krell is being used for their engineering expertise and the parts are farmed out to an OEM (likely Alpine again) for manufacture.

I can totally see them using a relative (outside of high-end audio, where they are well-established BTW) unknown such as Krell for this purpose. I think it's a matter of marketing. I can see Acura stating "Krell, the creators of extremely high-end audio equipment, designed and engineered our audio system". Or some such.

TampaRLX-SH

I agree, Bob....and your assessment aligns to my initial take.

But Krell is more hardware / sound engineer vendor, albeit high end. Elliott Scheiner had more fame as a record producer and record engineer. Forgive the pun...but he had 'STYLE'.

I agree, if Acura markets the RLX appropriately they can tie in this high end label to raise eyebrows. Be we have shared similar criticism of Acura's passive to dormant marketing, particularly for this car (RL). With the RLX being an Acura only product (no Honda cross branding or global market to straddle) we can watch and wait.

But me thinks Acura will serve Krell by exposing a larger consumer base, maybe more than Krell's brand will serve Acura?

If Acura is reading...here is a test bed of Acura enthusiasts,,,,and the response to this feature has been mostly distracted to disinterested.

oo7spy

If Acura is reading, they must either be dislexic or illiterate.

JonFo

As an audiophile with a system worth a lot more than a new RLX, I've known Krell for a long time, but would never consider buying their products, as they have poor value. Good performance on basic stuff like amps, but you pay a lot for bling and their small production scale.

So I find it strange that Acura, who is all about value and high tech to go with a niche player. I'd rather see them go with a major player like Harman or such than can truly engineer an advanced automotive solution.

But frankly, I'd not be surprised that this is a 'badge engineering' effort were an OEM'd baseline product from Alpine is 'massaged' by the guys at Krell and their logo is slapped on it.

TampaRLX-SH

Good point.

Re-reading the article in Acura STYLE magazine,,,,

"A special bonus for audiophiles: the RLX will be the first-ever Acura to offer a premium audio system produced in collaboration with esteemed home audio maker Krell Industries".

"in collaboration" = cross branding.

neuronbob

^^^^
Well, there you go.

ichi d

Look what i caught driving on the streets of Toronto today. I only got a few shots off before someone came up to my car and told me not to take pictures but i still took them anyways. lol

It looks like they were filming a commercial for the RLX.

ichi d

You can see the film crew in the back of the last pic, they had two black RLX the other one was under the bridge.

TampaRLX-SH

Great Job ichi!

You are giving Brenda Piddy a run...

You cannot take pics on a public street....yeah right.

Looks like 2012 RL wheels. And the dual exhaust ports are absent.
Difficult to see on a black car, but maybe Honda's blind spot camera on the side view mirror?