Benush

I am one of those who does like and care about the technical advance

I like the exterior design of a TL (and Lamborghini for that matter), but the technical ahhh factor is why I initially bought an RL. There is IMHO a marked difference between settling in for a long drive knowing the RL will wrap itself around you and make the drive enjoyable whether it be interstate or winding mountain roads versus "preparing" for a long drive in a mid level sedan. The 200 miles later my butt feels fine factor is VERY noticeable. On a long drive in the RL you drive until you noticed that you need gas, in a TL (and more so in an Accord) after a couple hundred miles you start looking for a gas stop to get out and stretch your legs. My butt, back and arms can tell the difference. For those that can't, wait until you can start a forest fire with the number of candles on your birthday cake. You WILL be able to notice the difference.

The new RLX design IS underwhelming, but then I don't sit outside a car and look at it's exterior while I drive it. Frankly I don't care if someone pulls up beside me and doesn't drool at how cool my car doesn't look. Maybe old age and senility has taken the edge off of the need to be noticed. Funny thing is, other RL owners DO notice. They understand its not the WOW for NOW but the Smooth now and in the future factor.

I've had a Prelude and an Integra GSR and a Porsche, RX-7 GSL-SE, Toyota MR2 and other cars that screamed "LOOK AT ME" (and a Japanese made Accord that screamed - "Why in the world did the factory paint me ugly tomato red??" . They each had their good points, but an RL is about the owner feeling welcomed into their car. I no longer need a car that does 0-60 in under 11 seconds or can do a slalom at 120 mph. What I DO want is as much technology as I can afford packaged in a vehicle that makes me forget just how technically advanced it really is until I want to plant the pedal on the right and scream through the twisties. If the exterior is a bit understated, then so be it. Being in a car that the law enforcement DOESN'T notice is good thing.

If others don't take a test drive because it's so bland and pass it up, then that just means I get a technologically over the top vehicle at a bargain price.

And that is my

gbriank

I tend to agree that Honda has lost its way. It made several mis-steps by trying to match the Germans. They've forgotten that they can (and have) set trends. Dump the focus groups and make command decisions. Take a risk.

Leather quality is subjective and ranges from model to model. Clarify your statement. Which model sucks?

jhr3uva90

People complained that Acuras were bland, so they released to ZDX and the current-generation TL. then people howled about how over designed those two models were. So now Acura is about to release a toned-down RLX. Now people are complaining about blandness again. When will folks be pleased with Acura's designs?

alaxgoaly8

I recently bought an 06 RL. For me, even though this car is almost 6 years old, it is still above the level of the generic cars made (accord, altima, camry). With the exception of cooled seats, ipod integration built in and the ability for the car to automatically use your phones contact book, this car still has all the tech of cars being built today.

Added features on the 06 that the generics don't offer that are important to me are the rear sunshades (great if you have kids), the SH-AWD (and the ride/powertrain in general), a great sound system (that doesn't turn the car into a baby rattle. If you owned an altima, accord or camry with a bose system, you know what I mean).

An 06 RL has better build quality on the interior than todays generics in my opinion.

In my opinion that's what you're purchasing. A quieter ride (tighter gaps and more sound deadening material), faster car with more features (even if some of the generics are catching up, they will never match the fit an finish of the luxury's).

Value is the perception. What you value is dependent on the person.

I don't think you can compare a current gen accord to an RL (although the RL is getting long in the tooth, which is why a new one is coming out). But as most of us know, the comparison for us is a 3-4 year old RL vs. a current gen generic.

For me, I drive 3 hrs a day for my commute and the serenity of the lux car is worth it to me (a used one, not a brand new one. I can't see paying $50K+ on a depreciating asset).

CFoote

Back to the RLX, I really think Acura should have picked a better color than beige/gold to show off these cars. It is one of the more conservative colors on the pallette....who made that decision?

I am sure the RLX is a fantastic car, don't get me wrong. My point was that other makes/models are catching up to cars like a RLX, 5 series, etc. I know the RLX (and other luxury cars) have more features and better build quality. The gap is tightening between the mid-range cars and the higher end cars... that's all.

Let's hope we can get a RLX brochure soon.

oo7spy

They never will unless BMW buys them out. The majority of people ragging on Acura, and the RL in particular, would never buy one if they liked it, so their opinion is moot.

the_razor

Going bit tenchnical I copied from autoblog.com...
"The production RLX will also be available sans electric-AWD system, with 310 horsepower coming solely from the 3.5-liter V6. The front-wheel-drive version will feature a plethora of technology that improves handling, including Amplitude Reactive Dampers, a new double-wishbone front suspension and a multi-link rear suspension. It will also weigh in "well under 4,000 pounds," which should help in the handling department."

That sounds cool and thats what I call technology advancement but
I wonder how this will handle versus the current SH-AWD setup or the 370 HP Sport Hybrid SH-AWD.

BDoggPrelude

Looks like the RLX is going to be built in America. This all but closes the door on the TSX since it will be the last Acura vehicle still built in Japan.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/acura-rl...h-america.html

gbriank

Depending on how well the sales of the ILX go, I bet the TSX goes away.

TonyCD

My understanding was that it's already been decided the TSX is toast.

The current TSX is based on the European Honda Accord; we get a bigger car as the Accord here. The next Accord sedan will be based on the Euro model, increasing the overlap between the Accord and TSX to an uncomfortable extent.

What's more, the pricing for the new Civic-based ILX is uncomfortably close to current TSX pricing. Putting the two next to each other would be setting up the ILX for failure (okay, not that we haven't see Acura do THAT before).

EL19

iTrader: (4)

^^^Correct. Also Acura recently trademarked RLX and TLX, which makes me think that all of the Sedans will be branded x-LX (ILX, TLX, RLX)and trucks x-DX (RDX, ZDX, MDX) and the coupe(s) will be x-SX (NSX and a new coupe) which leaves the TSX to be axed.

As for the side convo going on. Before I purchased my RL I had a 2009 Honda Accord EX-L and while it was a great car with great features it didnt have the features the RL has or the feel. It felt much cheaper as does every other Honda, Nissa, and Toyota I sit in. Hell even my girl's 2000 Lexus feels more solid than the newer bargain brands.

TSX69

2013 Acura RLX May Be Built in the US

A “perfect storm” of market conditions may prompt Honda to move assembly of its upcoming flagship, the 2013 Acura RLX, from Japan to the United States.

1st, the stigma that U.S.-built luxury cars can’t rival the build quality of Japanese or German models is no longer valid. BMW builds X3 and X6 models in Spartanburg, South Carolina for worldwide distribution, and Mercedes-Benz builds M Class, R Class and GL Class models in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Even Acura’s flagship sports coupe, the upcoming NSX hybrid, will be designed and built on these shores. It makes sense, then, that Acura’s flagship sedan, rumored to benefit from the same type of hybrid all-wheel-drive layout (in range-topping models, anyway) will also be built in the United States.

Confirmation seems to come from The Japan Times (via Carscoop), which reports that Honda will halt production of 2 sedan models at its plant in Saitama Prefecture, Japan. On that list is the Honda Legend, sold here as the current Acura RL.

There are financial reasons to move production to the U.S. as well. A strong Japanese yen and a weak U.S. dollar mean that it’s expensive to build cars in Japan, requiring automakers to raise prices or accept lower margins. Domestic production would help to lower costs and preserve margins, putting more money in Honda’s coffers.

Honda desperately needs the RL’s replacement to be a hit, since it’s sold just 182 RL sedans through May of this year. That’s down from 766 units in the same period of 2011, a sales decline of over 76%.

kssod

When will it be out with the hybrid AWD??? Rumors are not until spring of 13, with the FWD first.
06 RL approaching 90k and will need about $1500 to $2000 in service.
Would rather put it into a RLX.
Trade value keeps dropping.

oo7spy

I doesn't make sense though that they can't build something as good here as there though. I think if they require the same standards of material and craftsmanship, an American RLX could be the same as a Japanese one.

dwboston

Same here. I've got 86k on my 06 RL. It's disappointing that Acura has dragged its feet on getting the RLX out. I'd rather not pour money into the 06 and I'm not too keen on buying the first model year of a new RLX that will be loaded with new technology. I can't wait until 2014 for a new car - I'll likely be forced to switch brands.

neuronbob

My two USA-built TLs and Canadian-built Pilot were just as bulletproof as any JDM-built Honda. I think USA manufacture of the RLX will be just fine.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Keep us posted on what you guys choose.

TSX69

Spy Shot of 2014 Acura RLX Testing

It seems as if the 2014 Acura RL has been caught in the open doing high-altitude testing in this spy shot taken outside of Avon, Colo.

The 2014 Acura RL is based on the Acura RLX concept that was introduced at the New York Auto Show. The RLX Concept's all-new 3.5-liter direct-injected VTEC V-6 engine and Sport Hybrid SH-AWD system, with 3 electric motors, will combine to generate more than 370-horsepower, and are paired with a 7-speed dual clutch transmission and will deliver V-8 acceleration with 4-cylinder fuel economy—with an estimated EPA (city/highway/combined) rating of 30/30/30 mpg.

Of course, to be upfront, there is a nagging doubt that it might not be the new Acura RLX because the chase car with it is clearly an Infiniti M Class, but was that intended just to throw the scent off? Infiniti doesn't seem to have anything in the pipeline that would be ready for testing at this point with minimal camoflauge.

The reason we feel this is the new Acura RL is from nothing you can see in this photo: the front end. This car was originally spotted during the media introduction of the 2013 Audi All Road, Audi A5, S5, A4 and S4. On the test drive route from outside of Denver to Avon, this test mule was parked alongside the road at about 10,000 feet.

By the time my driving partner, Neil Hicks III from CarFanaticsForum.com and I pulled up next to it, the engineers got spooked and pulled a U-turn right in front of us. They provided us with a strong view of the front-end of the Acura RLX but without time for either of us to even snap a cellphone picture.

Fast forward to the next morning when we're heading from Avon, Colo., back down to Denver. Eagle eye Hicks spots the Acura RLX sitting in a parking lot of an abandoned building. This time we're able to sneak up on the car, which is no longer alone but is joined by this Infiniti M Class.

We have time to snap rear-angle photos of the car. Hicks is a little more brazen and walks behind the Acura RL for more photos. That's when the engineers in the chase car spot us and hop out with nervous smiles on their faces. I call out to them, "You picked a bad place to do testing because this road is crawling with automotive journalists." The nice Japanese men just nod and smile and we're off again.

There was one telling clue that they had to be Acura sedan engineers. We were piloting a 2013 Audi S5 and they showed no interest in it. (The Acura NSX guys would have at least given it a passing glance.)

All kidding aside. Do you agree? Is this the 2014 Acura RL that TorqueNews caught testing in Colorado?

oo7spy

Those wheels aren't bad either.

theNHBRL

to let you guys know the tsx isnt going anywhere. the ilx is a bit smaller in trunk capacity then the tsx, but they wont make the ilx disappear. well having the RL discontinued, and bring out the RLX is sort of a good choice because it will be a 3. hybrid. which is awesome better mpg. and still awd. it will still pull so thats a good thing too. it will kind of be like the Honda odyssey with eco mode, having 3 pistons shut off on hwy or smooth cursing, but of course it will kick once you foward the gas.

BDoggPrelude

Eh. They look like a bigger version of the 2003 Honda Accord V6 wheels.

CFoote

I hate to say it but just about every auto journalist along with the majority of forum members here have confirmed the TSX sedan is being discontinued.

If you know otherwise please cite your sources.

Chris

oo7spy

I think the consensus is they will not stop making them for now; they just won't remodel it and will let it die in 2014 or so.

db22

[QUOTE=TSX69;

1st, the stigma that U.S.-built luxury cars can’t rival the build quality of Japanese or German models is no longer valid. BMW builds X3 and X6 models in Spartanburg, South Carolina for worldwide distribution, and Mercedes-Benz builds M Class, R Class and GL Class models in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.



QUOTE]The cars mentioned above are the reason that people say the US cannot build quality cars. German cars from both of those manufacturers are of higher quality than the models listed above built in the USA and all of the models listed above are their slowest sellers.

neuronbob

I disagree. I owned two Ohio-built TLs and still have my Canadian-built Pilot. They were (and are in the case of the Pilot) of excellent build quality. I think I could easily handle an Ohio-built RL or an Indiana-built ILX with no issues.

getakey

Has there been any update on when the AWD RLX will be available?

db22

I hear you Bob but the kind of quality I am talking about is not necessarily "build" quality. The kind I am referring to may be explained by comparing the TL to the RL and I know that you know both.
People will say the TL is a great car but they may not say that it's a quality car. On the RL side people will say that it's a quality car and only those who drive it know that it's a great car too.

oo7spy

But that argument doesn't have to do with where the car is built. It has to do with the materials that are shipped to the factory. If you ship cheap materials to Japan, you will get a car with a cheap quality just like a TSX. The reason the TL is $10k cheaper than an RL is because it is $10k cheaper to build it with the materials given. If you give an American plant the same materials as a Japanese plant, why would you expect a different result? Isn't most of the assembly done by machines?

TampaRLX-SH

I will remain skeptical until I see, touch and drive one in person. I am not saying a US build is not capable of JDM build, buy I have yet to be convinced.

I agree if materials and price point were equal, the build quality is much more difficult to ascertain.

But my TL was definitely not built as well as my RL. And I found TSXs had the build quality similar to the RL and better than the TL. No new car I have owned was back to the dealer for rattles and assembly issues as much as my TL. And I have yet to see any two 2004-2008 TLs where the glove box alignment was identical. Similar situation for various trim pieces.

I will acknowledge that the 2009+ TL does have better build fit and finish than my 2005 TL from showroom inspections, but I have never spent much time in them as the power phlegm had me fear I would turn to stone.

Japan cannot maintain its cost effectiveness, and I do see cuts in quality. The Koreans are doing to the Japanese what the Japanese did to the Europeans in the 70s & 80s. But I have toured US and Japanese auto assembly plants. There is a VERY strong difference in attitude of the assembly workers. In Japan, quality of work is a sincere source of pride. The focus is a combination of art and science. In the US there is plenty of 'market speak' of quality, team work and those crappy posters of teamwork, attitude and cultural BS, but it does not come from the heart. It is a presnetation of quality over true execution of quality. You can tell me how quality focused you are until the cows come home, but I want to experience it in the execution to believe. In the US, marketing geniuses have yet to capitalize on promoting the quality of their defects.

And for those very reasons I would still prefer a JDM built Honda over a US build. And I would pay a premium for it.

neuronbob

A good point. I consider the two types of quality differently as well.

Both the TLs and my RL had excellent build quality.
The RL's materials quality is far superior to the TL and that is the way it is supposed to be.

I am confident that Acura will keep both types of quality up, especially because it has a lot on the line with the RLX. Of course, as TampaRL says above, we won't know until we can lay hands on an RLX, which I intend to test-drive as soon as it's released.

kssod

I feel that my RL build quality is beyond reproach. I remember the original ads, and brochures showing the paint being hand wet sanded to insure perfection.
That said, as I look at an RL replacement, the GS350 the current leader, it is amazing the almost shogun like dedication demanded by Lexus of its employees.
On the various Lexus websites i've visited there are articles were the assembler must verbally recite all steps for a given process in front of the inspector in a certain time. Others are required to demonstrate their skill by doing rapid origami with one hand, (I believe a leather worker). There is a fanatical level of craftsmanship that is demanded.

http://secure.drivers.lexus.com/lexu...der/10-Reasons

Not sure that same level of expectations are found in a US plant.

I truly wish we had some insight into the RLX SH-AWD release. If I am going to drop 60k on a car a 370hp torque vectoring hybrid AWD would certainly be at the top of my list. I don't think the AWD version will be released first, possibly not until spring of 2013. Too long to wait.

Moonrider

When my 05 RL (with 91k) developed a very loud noise coming from the belt side of the engine I went shopping for another Acura to replace it, but to no avail no dealers(within 120m) had any new or used ones, and I do not care for a underpowered MDX. I decided to keep it. This is our 4th Acura and as far as build quality, I think the late model Legends were the best. I love everything about the RL except it is underpowered. When the 2013's-14's come out we will have a look, but unless they have a marked improvement on power, I'm afraid the next car will not be an Acura. If Acura is going to compete in this luxury sport class, they really need to step it up.

kssod

370 hp hybrid AWD would be best in class, better than Audi A6, BMW 535, Lexus GS 350, Merc E350 and Infiniti M37.

The question is when??????

oo7spy

The HP will be the best of any V6 in the class, and the torque should be better than all the V8s. I don't think power will be an issue with the new RL.

db22

In 2005 there were some people comparing the Lexus LS430 to the RL. The RL was quoted (in those days) as having 300HP, the Lexus V8 had 290. The Cadillac STS V8 had 300 so the RL was certainly competitive but as we all know, times have changed and HP has moved up. The other change is that engines are getting smaller so the RL back to 3.5L is following suit.
370 HP in an RLX will be in line with current trends and Acura won't be the most or least powerful in its class but it may well have the edge in MPG or will the extra AWD and batteries eat the advantage up?

BDoggPrelude

Best in class torque and horsepower are useless if the RLX tips the scales at 4,500lbs. If they can manage to keep it at the current curb weight, (even lighter would be great), it will be more than adequate.

TL_Guy

Here's something to think about for future Acura products (TLX and or TSX). The 2013 Honda Accord V6 is said to deliver more horsepower than it's current 3.5 271hp V6. The 2013 RLX is said to be based at 310hp with most likely a derivative of the Accord's 3.5 V6 right? So lets say they bump the Accord's V6 up 5 hp, that leaves a 35hp gap between the two. With that being said that means the TLX and or TSX will be closely matched with the Accord and RLX, atleast in engine specs. I thought Acura was going in a new "forward" direction. It looks like they're repeating themselves. Does this raise anyone else eye brows?

oo7spy

Useless is a pretty strong conclusion. However, there is no indication that it will weigh that much. Do you have a reason to believe so? IIRC, Acura said they were aiming to stay under 4,000.

The TSX will not ever get a new model. The current one will die off and the ILX will take the entry sedan position. Then we will have a 200 hp 2.4L, a 300 hp 3.5L, and a 370hp 3.5L hybrid. Also, while the new RL will still appear to be close in size to the TL, there will be an obvious space difference inside. (Really, the current RL looks bigger on the outside too.)

If you ask me, that is a quantum leap forward over the current fubar of three V6s that appear to all be the same size car. As for you questions about the Accord, why does it matter if Honda has a similarly powered car? Acura's bread and butter is taking a Honda, putting it in a tux, stuffing it with technology, and slapping a premium on it. Nissan/Infiniti do it too. I don't see an issue there.

kssod

Dealer GM says not until feb or march.

kssod

http://www.acuranews.com/channels/ac...change-summary