BDoggPrelude

I have definitely had outstanding service from the Acura dealer we go to, Courtesy Acura. I've never had a reason to complain. They've always given me what I expect from a luxury car dealership. I have also heard from numerous people on this board about issues with their local dealership...enough to know Acura could probably benefit from more consistent service through their entire network. That being said, I think a lot of people on this forum have unrealistic expectations when they go to the dealer like replacing cup holders that have been damaged by spilled drinks, no-charge out of warranty repairs, etc.

I also agree with people that have said it is a mistake releasing the FWD model first. What's more likely to make the front page of Road&Track..."All new 370hp/400tq Acura RLX SH-SH-AWD Hybrid!" or "All new 310hp Acura RLX with all-wheel steering!"? Sure, all of the magazines are going to do a first drive article about the FWD RLX when it comes out. I'm sure they'll be excited about the tech, luxurious interior and overall amenities. They'll probably say it drives great for a FWD boat. There will probably be mixed reviews on the styling, although I'm sure most will say it's too bland and conservative. One thing I can guarantee they will ALL say is, "The SH-SH-AWD model will be much better". It's doubtful car magazines are going to go touting the FWD RLX front and center on their covers. I also think that by the time the AWD model comes out, the RLX will have been around long enough to be unworthy of front page glamour. They are missing an opportunity to capitalize on all of that "new car" press coverage.

Finally, I know that some people like to compare this car on paper to a lot of the other brands. Yes, on paper it has more features for your money and is a much more reliable car than any of its German counterparts. The problem with this is that luxury cars are a huge status symbol. So many people buy cars in this price range just so they can drive around with their noses in the air. They'll be more than willing to give up a few amenities in favor of getting something like a BMW, Audi or Mercedes that comes with a greater perceived status value. They don't care how it drives as long as it is quiet and the ride quality is acceptable. They are also not worried about the reliability and maintenance costs. With companies like BMW offering 5 years/50,000 miles no cost maintenance, why should they care? Most people either lease those cars or trade them in when the new model comes out anyway so they could care less about the long term reliability and residual value of their cars.

I don't know how many of these Acura is planning on selling every year but they've got a lot of work to do if they want to sell substantially more units than they did the RL, (even in the early years when it actually was selling). There's really nothing about this car that just screams "Pick me!". I hope they have a great marketing scheme in plan or this car may be DOA before they even get around to the SH-SH-AWD model.

jhr3uva90

Considering that it has been 8 years since Acura debuted the last RL, I guess they wanted to have something to sell sooner rather than later. Besides, I don't think the RLX could possibly sell worse than the current RL.

Toby123

A few quick photoshops from me. The grille on the RLX bugs me just like the previous RL. Shrink it down and line it up with the top of the headlights and it goes a long way. More like the ILX grille. It looks fine with a Honda Legend grille, but it could use some tweaks to make it work as an Acura.

phlfly

It's true they need to work a lot to sell cars for those money when you can get BMW or Benz. Same case with Infinity and Lexus , there are a lot people buy G-and GS sedans as those a real rear wheel drive and more reliable then BMW and Benz. As you know a real luxury sport sedan should rear wheel drive, so when Acura is trying push front wheel car as luxury sport sedan it will not work and they compete with Lexus LS models and may be Audi.
But thing about BMW is term drivability! Well as you know none of car brand came close to repeat a feel as BMW. I heard new Lexus GS model is close and may be Cadillac CTS, but it's only CTS-V model.
A lot people are buying BMW just for way they drive. I'm one of them, but it's hard to keep BMW for long with complicated electronics, everytime something wrong, form one to another. I just wish BMW would use Japanese made electronics. BMW is very advance but that advance system is becoming to hard maintain.
Also another brand came with rear wheel drive luxury sedan is Hyundai Genesis. I test drove this car, and I tell you it's very good, it feels just a inch softer then BMW, and price V6-44,000 (333 hp) and V8 - 46,000 (429 hp). You will get a lot car for 46,000.
I'm afraid Acura RL front wheel drive would not be sell at all or almost, and SH-SH model would be hard to sell since the SH-SH model is available on TL models and at this price range (60,000) it competes with Audi, BMW, Benz and Lexus.

Benush

So, will they really provide adequate light or just enough to make driving at night a dangerous thing? (especially in rain and snow). Somewhere I read that they were adjustable, so does that mean you can adjust each one for your driving pleasure?

Strangest thing is that the bulbous lens looks eerily similar to the "focused beam" OEM fog lights on my 95 Integra. What's old is new again???

Benush

Did anyone one this forum pay ANYWHERE NEAR MSRP for their new RL??

Not me.

The RLX will cost "out the door" what the market will bear. Remember the $4K factory to dealer discounts that everyone knew about!!??

I seriously doubt that the majority of new owners will pay more than $54K for the 2015 AWD Advance (or whatever they call the loaded model) unless the Yen takes a major uptick against the dollar (not likely given there current situation). Honda is not that foolish. If the car does not sell well at whatever number they put on the sticker, then within a few months of the dealerships screaming that they don't want any, the powers that be will offer an incentive to dealerships based on market research just like they have before. Same game different year.

Love it, hate it, lust in your heart after it, the RLX will sell what we the PAYING consumer will give for it (within realistic tolerances). Now if you lust for an NSX, I'd start telling the kids and or grandkids that they have to pay there own way through college because grandpa wants a new shiny toy!

jhr3uva90

People complain about how the RLX is front wheel drive, doesn't offer a V8, and has non-unique styling. Meanwhile, Infiniti has done everything the complainers have asked. The Infiniti M has unique styling, RWD, and an available V8. How many did they sell in October? 738.

The simple fact is, the Mercedes E Class and the BMW 5 Series dominate this segment. Lexus can't touch it, Infiniti can't touch it, and Acura can't touch it. At least Acura is trying to make RLX profitable by making a FWD version. Not only did they not have to expend resources on an all-new RWD platform, but the lessons learned from the RLX can trickle down to other Acuras and eventually Honda-branded models.

06RL/NBP

Mercedes and BMW automobiles have 2 major problems.

1. Unreliable
2. Overpriced

oo7spy

Finally, someone making some sense in this thread. I have seen two common themes in this thread. "I won't buy the first model year because it has too many bugs." "I want Acura to release the first version of completely brand new technology as soon as possible." WTF?

Why would Acura rush the production of the most complex drivetrain and technology features it has ever debuted? Why would they throw away the sales that the FWD will generate in the first six months just so magazines can say that the AWD is better? It doesn't make any sense. Acura knows the RLX won't sell. They don't care. That isn't the point of a flagship. They know the FWD will sell the most, so they are getting that out as soon as possible to fill the new model RL void.

phlfly

But best in class and their name is well known. They earned their name by the putting high quality product, but may be less reliable. They are conservative inside and out, and don't try to make a car like a Christmas tree. They have one of the safety, best brakes, and amazing technologies, where Japanese automaker just now bring to consumers.

weather

This photoshop clearly shows that Acura would not need to do much to make the RLX look amazing...Just give it decent looking wheels. Wheels are by far the single "make or break" look on a vehicle. I am fully aware that a flagship vehicle is not about being bold or "in your face", but it still needs to be appealing and this photoshop makes the RLX just that...appealing.

Acura will never lead the segment, as others have stated, Mercedes and BMW own this segment. The infiniti M, although it offers power, RWD and a V8 is lacking one thing, appeal! That car looks ugly in my opinion and why it doesn't sell. It has these swoopy lines that just reminds me of an old Huyndai Elantra or Tiburon.

On the decision to get the FWD versus the SH-SH-AWD first, I suspect Acura/Honda has given this some thoughts and there must be a reason behind it. I don't think that wanting to make sure the technology works is the main reason....I am sure they had plenty of time to fully test it prior to implementing. At this point, a few months won't be able to make a huge difference....I think this is just a matter of getting the cheaper one first, get people talking and bring out the flagship later on, sort of like "save the best for last" approach. It can backfire and kill the excitement of the release of the RLX but it can go the other way too. If the FWD RLX comes out and people loves it, imagine the buzz it will generate when the SH-SH-AWD comes out.

I am not agreeing with the folks that say that Acura is not building this car to get high numbers. No car companies build car with the expectations it won't sell, otherwise they wouldn't build it. They put a lot of money in R&D and don't do it unless they feel they will build a car people will want to own and drive. Acura knows they can't outsell the BMW and Mercedes, but it can still, give then right design, give these two car co. a good run for their money.

My 2 cents of course....

jhr3uva90

Yup, different rims would help tremendously.

Here's something to consider: the RLX will be manufactured in the USA. This is a first for a Legend/RL. Maybe they want to make sure the US plant is able to manufacture the FWD version before ramping up to the more complicated SH-SH-AWD version that has never been done before on any Honda product.

Although I like the look of the Infiniti M, I see how the look could have limited appeal. On the other hand, the Lexus GS has been around for 20 years. Lexus has tried different design approaches with that car, from hiring an Italian to give the car a European look to the "spindle grill" of the current car. Yet, the GS has never sold anywhere near the BMW and Mercedes competition.

jhr3uva90

One more thing. People seem to forget that Acura outsells Infiniti overall in North America. I think the RLX might sell as well as the Infiniti M or maybe even a little better. Why? Because Acura is finally giving customers some options with the RL. Much as I like my RL with SH-AWD, most folks associate AWD with snow. So if it doesn't snow there they live, they won't consider AWD. So now "regular" customers and perceive two options: 1) AWD and 2) non-AWD. That could help.

dwboston

You're mistaken about the same AWD system being available on the TL. The RLX will offer the hybrid SH-SH-AWD system featuring three electric motors (one at each rear wheel) instead of the standard SH-AWD system using a driveshaft, differential, and the planetary gear machinery, which is what the TL will use. It's possible the Sport Hybrid SH-AWD system could eventually trickle down to other models in the Acura family, just like the original SH-AWD system was eventually used in the TL and MDX. But as it stands for model year 2014, the SH-SH-AWD system will be unique to the RLX in the Acura family, and unique to Acura among other brands.

dwboston

I think that was an Acura marketing failure. Acura never adequately made the case that SH-AWD improves dry-road handling (which we know it does). I still don't buy the opinion that the de-contented RLX will help sales overall, expecially when the sticker on the base FWD model will equal what many people actually paid for full-featured RL's a few years ago.

Selling a lot of base model cars works for the Germans because people buy the brand first and only enthusiasts can tell the difference between a base 5-series model or A6 and a loaded one. It didn't work with the current RL when Acura came out with the base model without Nav a few years back. I fail to see how leading with your best model hurts you in the market, especially when the media and blogs are so influential when it comes to shaping perception. By the time the SH-SH-AWD (I'm getting sick of typing that already, we need to come up with an acronym for it) RLX comes out, I suspect the press will have moved on to something else. I guess we'll see in a few months.

weather

I agree that SH-SH-AWD is too long, having SH^2-AWD would be the way I'd do it, the ^2 would be a little 2 in the top and to the right of the H. You know what I mean right?

rsx2rdx

While the RLX is unlikely to pull in "luxury" consumers concerned with status, I don't think that's the goal of the car. Acura needs something to replace the RL, introduce there next generation of technologies and be practical enough (the NSX) isn't to actually pull potential buyers into the showroom.

In that regard, I think the RLX is going to do the job just fine. Styling-wise, it has been criticized, but as several posters have shown, rims and body kits go a long way and hopefully the Hybrid version comes out with some better looking wheel's on the 19's.

I don't think Acura will ever compete with the "status" brands like Lexus, Mercedes and BMW...at least not now. My money aunt doesn't know squat about cars, but she buys a Mercedes year afer year and thinks Acura's are "cute" cars...so that isn't the likely target. More likely, Acura needs to pull in the Audi buyers, give Infinity shoppers another option and fend off upstarts like Hyundai. Cadillac buyers with an open mind might also cross shop although as a younger buyer, I still perceive Cadillac as old skool money instead of the new school technology they are trying to reposition themselves with.

phlfly

Well that's problem becasue normal consumer will not know a difference between Acura, BMW and Audi AWD system, they will ask why does similar car like TL cost less, when more nimble and agile then RLX?

It's same thing like to explain to people why M-series has better handling then none M-series in the case of limit slip differential.

jhr3uva90

Hopefully, the salespeople at various Acura dealerships will be astute enough to know that SH in SH-AWD now stands for Sport HYBRID.

Benush

Not to be negative, but the old fart that I am does not agree and here is my reasoning.

1. Sales staff want to sell lots of cars and the TLX will have a wider audience appeal than the RLX so sales staff will want to sell 4 or 5 TLXs a month versus the 1 or fewer RLXs.

2. I have never met an Acura Salesperson who has as good a knowledge of the Acura line as I have, let alone a better working knowledge (not really bragging, but sales people are not the best and brightest that I have ever met) and I suspect most everyone who has an RL knows more about Acuras than any salesperson. I am certain that most of the "regulars" on this forum have a MUCH better knowledge of Acura than the majority of sales staff in even the best Acura dealership (sales staff - flame away - I'm old and can take it!).
People come to this site for advise on problems that the Service department may not be able to answer let alone Sales!

3. Sales staff will take the path of least resistance (and quickest buck) and offer a rudimentary explanation of the "new" FWD with rear steering and later the new SH2 AWD and then explain how great the TLX system is and it already comes in both FWD and AWD. How and or why it works better on dry as well as wet and snowy will only be words they utter without a hint of why it happens.

4. They want to sell cars NOW and explaining the pluses and minuses of the newer systems will be something that they would rather give you a brochure and have you come back when you are "ready to buy". Remember, most of them want to know "what will it take for you to buy this car today?"

Yes, my bias towards sales staff is showing, I never initially deal with anyone lower than Fleet Manager, and my last Acura I used Costco and so that was my initial contact so it worked well. I'm always handed off to some sales person for the walk through after the sale, but generally I made a deal that if they give me some mugs and a hat and go away I'll let them fill out the evaluation as 10s.

Frontline staff explaining more than the steering wheel and door handles (and with the RLs, even there I have my doubts), I wouldn't hold my breath.

Again, just my

Pint

Will SH-SH-AWD version of RLX be equipped by P-AWS as well?

phlfly

I agreed for 100%, how many times I confirmed that on BMW dealers, salesman is selling on the finest machine and doesn’t know anything about limited slip diff. and other differences between one model to another, like X-drive sits higher due AWD system, like any AWD system accept Ferrari FF.

nore03

They still sell well with all that going against them so at some point those points don't matter anymore

neuronbob

No.

the_razor

I think they should have added PAWS for SH-AWD version just like the new Lexus GS

the_razor

What's the purpose for the exhaust pipes to shape down I noticed same down pipe in ILX & RLX... I think it would look cool if the exhaust pipes came out from those deflectors

phlfly

Is this car look like a VW CC

06RL/NBP

Because people are shallow and are more interested in status than the more important things in life.

Pint

and this is pretty silly

Pint

That wouldn't harm for sure.

GoHawks

I completely agree, but also contend that this is symptomatic not just of Acura salesman, but most car salesman, whether it be BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Cadillac and even Toyota.

Now I am a car geek so I understand that I (and we on these forums) are not the typical customers, but you should know your product and how it stacks against the competition.

Most couldn't tell you what direct injection is, or the difference between a turbo or a supercharger.

Islandsnowz

Doesn't look even close to a CC to me.

TonyCD

The point of a flagship isn't to sell a million copies of the flagship, true. But the point is to get a ton of publicity that reflects a halo onto the brand's other models and thereby helps them.

For that reason, the point of leading with the SH-AWD version is to get that publicity. A flagship that doesn't sell isn't necessarily a waste of Honda's money. But a flagship that doesn't sell AND doesn't get publicity, is.

neuronbob

RL, and now RLX, is Acura's showhorse. It really needed to get the SH-SH-AWD version out first for the splash in the automotive press it would generate. While P-AWS is cool, it's not as cool as what people want to see, which is a 370 hp hybrid luxury car that gets 30/30/30 mpg.

No.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

oo7spy

I can understand your point, but I feel the word is already out. The point of a flagship (and you bring up a good point about the halo as the NSX will do) is to bring people into the showroom. 99% of buyers aren't going to buy the flagship or the halo. They know that walking in the door, but they enjoy gawking at the features and building themselves up on the brand. I think what people are forgetting is that the FWD will have the vast majority of the same features as the AWD. When you walk into a showroom and sit in the top model, does it really matter how fast it goes if your aren't going on a test drive?

In addition, I think an autoshow unveiling reaches a broader audience than Motor Trend does. Of course if you capture both audiences, you have more, but I don't think the amount of sales lost from persuaded car magazine readers will outweigh the sales generated by PAWS in the first six months. If you spend any time in Car Talk, you know that Honda can't win over the car "enthusiasts" no matter what they do. In 2005, Motor Trend put the RL and M45 above the 535i and E 350, but I didn't make a lasting difference. However, the SH-AWD TL is now being compared to the same E Class and 5-series, and TL sales are boosted because of it.

In 12 months, all trim levels will be available, and this dramatic "introduction" (didn't it already happen?) will be a distant memory in everyone's mind. At that point, all that will matter is the number of sales brought to the brand from any of the RLX features.

phlfly

You can compare Hyundai Genesis to BMW 5 series or Benz E class but it will not change an opinion about them and Acura as well, if this company is trying to sell front wheel drive in the luxury segment. The lux segment is rear wheel drive, I think they are making mistake to sell FWD, as they did with TL, people will buy BMW 3-series any day over TL, and I tell you this since I had one and liked it but it's not near close to BMW. I'm not going to buy TL ever again, but I will buy 3-series at good price.

Rocket_man

I think everyone on this thread is way over thinking this car. It is understandable because there are so many owners of the current RL that has SH-AWD. But I believe Acura is taking this car in a different direction. It is more than just a name change.

The volume seller will be the FWD version (in various flavors) which will be offered in a more achievable price range, conceivably less than the RL it is replacing. Many people don't care for the SH-AWD. Shocking to those on this forum but as you are know you are not the sole target buyer for this car. Acura is focusing the RLX more on luxury, some cool tech, in an affordable package. It is not going to appeal to AWD buyers obviously, but they will sell more RL's because of this.

The SH-SH-AWD version will be a niche product. Remember, the first "SH" is Sport Hybrid, not Super Handling. Not that many are going to pay the premium for the Hybrid tech that happens to give you AWD at the same time.

Why release the FWD first?? Simple, that is the way Honda always does it, pretty much every manufacturer (except Prius) does it. Mainstream product first, Hybrid second. Look at the new Accord... mainstream first, Hybrid later next year.

So for the RLX, the FWD and its many variations, will be the mainstream car. Better value, less emphasis on what many see as an unnecessarily expensive feature (AWD) but they will sell more. For those that want the hybrid or AWD they will pony up, but those buyers will be in the minority.

This new direction doesn't sit well with most on this forum since most here bought the car for the AWD handling. But Acura sold 11 RLs in November. Yes 11. Less than one a month in the entire US. (okay it is on its way out but hasn't sold much better in the last year) Something has to change and Acura is making that change by making the RLX a more affordable, mid-luxury (their words) car, and an option for those that wand hybrid and/or AWD they still have it, they just need to pay the premium.

I like the cars subtle styling. Is it boring? I don't think so. I think it is 'quiet' and refined. If it were in my price range I'd look at it. But I'm more TLX than RL.

Benush

So I may have read this in this forum and if so I am sorry for repeating it, but I think the the FWD v AWD was an economics decision or more precisely decisions that were primary but now may be secondary


First the erstwhile primary.
1. As mentioned, there are probably fewer people who need AWD. so a FWD is now an option at a "supposedly" significant cost savings.

2. The cost of the mechanics of producing the car is probably significantly less when talking about a few servos per wheel to cause toe in and toe-out versus two complete motors.

3. If Acura can get more buyers to by an RLX because of the cost savings of FWD v AWD then they are dollars ahead in every aspect.

4. The R&D to get wheels to toe in and out versus actually assisting to drive the car in many conditions has to be significant. If the SH2AWD does not hit it out of the ball park on the first swing then it may be seen as condemning the NSX to a slow death if it has the same system (with the front and rear wheel designations reversed and not much more. More time to perfect the AWD is probably a good thing. Actually I see this a a future visioning and cover your ass primary.

I bought my first Honda Accord new back in 76 because it had everything and it was a cheaper price for great quality. As I think back at their other model introductions in both Honda and Acura, they have "tried" to do the same thing as a new model has come out. I bought my 95 Integra GSR without ever even seeing one in person. I "knew" it was the perfect car [at least for me]. Well, at least until the late 90s and then that began to change. That is why some people got disappointed in "next years" models because the first one had everything. So... they went to introducing a model with nearly everything and then added a few nice things every year to entice more sales. That sort of backfired because old time Honda / Acura owners had gotten used to great things the first model year.

I think that that is why Acura is rolling out the RLX as they are. The economics when this was being designed did/does not allow them the luxury of throwing all their eggs in one basket plus they are trying to woo back old customers who were feeling left out of the loop as Acura worked on other models to fit other demographics.

The revised primary and future of the Companies.
For as long as I can remember Honda has marched to their own beat. Auto journalists and trends be damned. The race track brought them innovations in engines and designers who were allowed to create with their minds rather than a pocket book were the direction. IMHO they lost that focus beginning in 2008. Whether it was purely economics or fear of an uncertain economy or lack of inspiration I do not know and probably never will. What I do know is that I see Acura coming back, marching to their own tune, bean counters once more relegated to dark rooms and less influence . Personally how I see Honda / Acura's goals, to get back those who have wondered away because they were disillusioned, but once again can see the inspiration and imagination of a company based on enjoying the experience and to find the next flock of believers.

The naysayers and skeptics are entitled to their opinion, but the believers don't need to taste the Kool-aid, we were hooked because we lust for what is under the sheet metal, like a Siren's tempting call, we saw what we wanted, and dang it's good.

As always, just an old farts

Professor

In dollars, how much more would it cost to make an RLX RWD v. an RLX FWD?

Take a poll... buyers in the Southern states don't want an AWD or really a FWD.