**OFFICIAL RLX THREAD** Update p.14: Prod. car to debut in LA 11/28
12-04-2012, 07:08 AM
#841
Senior Moderator
Like Tampa said, you have every opportunity to buy a RWD car with a V8 option. You just won't have a Honda.
Last edited by oo7spy; 12-04-2012 at 07:22 AM.
12-04-2012, 07:59 AM
#842
The voters have spoken. Outside of the Luxury segment, Honda has 4 models in the top 20 models sold in the US. People want safety, not a race car. RWD is good for a track. FWD is good for the rain. What's the point of putting RWD on a car that isn't a race car? Honda has only done it twice, S2000 and NSX, and they will do it again when they build another race car.
Like Tampa said, you have every opportunity to buy a RWD car with a V8 option. You just won't have a Honda.
Like Tampa said, you have every opportunity to buy a RWD car with a V8 option. You just won't have a Honda.
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Professor (12-07-2012)
12-04-2012, 08:21 AM
#843
[QUOTE=Benush;14194780]
I bought my first Honda Accord new back in 76 because it had everything and it was a cheaper price for great quality. As I think back at their other model introductions in both Honda and Acura, they have "tried" to do the same thing as a new model has come out. I bought my 95 Integra GSR without ever even seeing one in person. I "knew" it was the perfect car [at least for me]. Well, at least until the late 90s and then that began to change. That is why some people got disappointed in "next years" models because the first one had everything. So... they went to introducing a model with nearly everything and then added a few nice things every year to entice more sales. That sort of backfired because old time Honda / Acura owners had gotten used to great things the first model year.
I think that that is why Acura is rolling out the RLX as they are. The economics when this was being designed did/does not allow them the luxury of throwing all their eggs in one basket plus they are trying to woo back old customers who were feeling left out of the loop as Acura worked on other models to fit other demographics.
QUOTE]
When I bought my 05 RL in 05 it was the top of the line and had no options. Subsequent years brought lesser iterations so it seems that the RLX is an inverse marketing strategy to the RL.
I bought my first Honda Accord new back in 76 because it had everything and it was a cheaper price for great quality. As I think back at their other model introductions in both Honda and Acura, they have "tried" to do the same thing as a new model has come out. I bought my 95 Integra GSR without ever even seeing one in person. I "knew" it was the perfect car [at least for me]. Well, at least until the late 90s and then that began to change. That is why some people got disappointed in "next years" models because the first one had everything. So... they went to introducing a model with nearly everything and then added a few nice things every year to entice more sales. That sort of backfired because old time Honda / Acura owners had gotten used to great things the first model year.
I think that that is why Acura is rolling out the RLX as they are. The economics when this was being designed did/does not allow them the luxury of throwing all their eggs in one basket plus they are trying to woo back old customers who were feeling left out of the loop as Acura worked on other models to fit other demographics.
QUOTE]
When I bought my 05 RL in 05 it was the top of the line and had no options. Subsequent years brought lesser iterations so it seems that the RLX is an inverse marketing strategy to the RL.
12-04-2012, 09:22 AM
#844
I think everyone on this thread is way over thinking this car. It is understandable because there are so many owners of the current RL that has SH-AWD. But I believe Acura is taking this car in a different direction. It is more than just a name change.
The volume seller will be the FWD version (in various flavors) which will be offered in a more achievable price range, conceivably less than the RL it is replacing. Many people don't care for the SH-AWD. Shocking to those on this forum but as you are know you are not the sole target buyer for this car. Acura is focusing the RLX more on luxury, some cool tech, in an affordable package. It is not going to appeal to AWD buyers obviously, but they will sell more RL's because of this.
The volume seller will be the FWD version (in various flavors) which will be offered in a more achievable price range, conceivably less than the RL it is replacing. Many people don't care for the SH-AWD. Shocking to those on this forum but as you are know you are not the sole target buyer for this car. Acura is focusing the RLX more on luxury, some cool tech, in an affordable package. It is not going to appeal to AWD buyers obviously, but they will sell more RL's because of this.
Any way you slice it -- even if you personally believe the product is worth it -- Honda's decision to ask this price for this product is an exercise in self-delusion.
12-04-2012, 09:31 AM
#845
I think the RLX can succeed in the marketplace if it's priced right. A few random points..
1. The car really needs to differentiate itself from the Accord. Under the hood and on paper this is clearly the case but the exterior (besides the jewel lights) could use a little more distinguishment. The new generation of Acura's have very subtle lines and the RLX probably looks much better in person, but you have to at least pull people into the showroom. Where Acura is succeeding is with the RDX, which is kicking serious competition becuse it has been able to distinguish itself from being a nicer CRV while the ILX is struggling because everything thinks it's a Civic with lipstick.
Where i think price makes a big difference is some "mainstream" luxury buyers want everything...and I don't think you can get this anymore with Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. When Lexus first came out with the LS400, the top of the line model was still priced competively. Nowadays, everyone talks about having a GS. If it were me...I'd want everything...jewel headlights, Krell Audio, everything in the safety package, best leather, etc. So if the top of the line RLX can hit that sweet spot in price point, I think it will actually pull in some buyers.
1. The car really needs to differentiate itself from the Accord. Under the hood and on paper this is clearly the case but the exterior (besides the jewel lights) could use a little more distinguishment. The new generation of Acura's have very subtle lines and the RLX probably looks much better in person, but you have to at least pull people into the showroom. Where Acura is succeeding is with the RDX, which is kicking serious competition becuse it has been able to distinguish itself from being a nicer CRV while the ILX is struggling because everything thinks it's a Civic with lipstick.
Where i think price makes a big difference is some "mainstream" luxury buyers want everything...and I don't think you can get this anymore with Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. When Lexus first came out with the LS400, the top of the line model was still priced competively. Nowadays, everyone talks about having a GS. If it were me...I'd want everything...jewel headlights, Krell Audio, everything in the safety package, best leather, etc. So if the top of the line RLX can hit that sweet spot in price point, I think it will actually pull in some buyers.
12-04-2012, 11:34 AM
#846
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
I think everyone on this thread is way over thinking this car. It is understandable because there are so many owners of the current RL that has SH-AWD. But I believe Acura is taking this car in a different direction. It is more than just a name change.
The volume seller will be the FWD version (in various flavors) which will be offered in a more achievable price range, conceivably less than the RL it is replacing. Many people don't care for the SH-AWD. Shocking to those on this forum but as you are know you are not the sole target buyer for this car. Acura is focusing the RLX more on luxury, some cool tech, in an affordable package. It is not going to appeal to AWD buyers obviously, but they will sell more RL's because of this.
The SH-SH-AWD version will be a niche product. Remember, the first "SH" is Sport Hybrid, not Super Handling. Not that many are going to pay the premium for the Hybrid tech that happens to give you AWD at the same time.
Why release the FWD first?? Simple, that is the way Honda always does it, pretty much every manufacturer (except Prius) does it. Mainstream product first, Hybrid second. Look at the new Accord... mainstream first, Hybrid later next year.
So for the RLX, the FWD and its many variations, will be the mainstream car. Better value, less emphasis on what many see as an unnecessarily expensive feature (AWD) but they will sell more. For those that want the hybrid or AWD they will pony up, but those buyers will be in the minority.
This new direction doesn't sit well with most on this forum since most here bought the car for the AWD handling. But Acura sold 11 RLs in November. Yes 11. Less than one a month in the entire US. (okay it is on its way out but hasn't sold much better in the last year) Something has to change and Acura is making that change by making the RLX a more affordable, mid-luxury (their words) car, and an option for those that wand hybrid and/or AWD they still have it, they just need to pay the premium.
I like the cars subtle styling. Is it boring? I don't think so. I think it is 'quiet' and refined. If it were in my price range I'd look at it. But I'm more TLX than RL.
The volume seller will be the FWD version (in various flavors) which will be offered in a more achievable price range, conceivably less than the RL it is replacing. Many people don't care for the SH-AWD. Shocking to those on this forum but as you are know you are not the sole target buyer for this car. Acura is focusing the RLX more on luxury, some cool tech, in an affordable package. It is not going to appeal to AWD buyers obviously, but they will sell more RL's because of this.
The SH-SH-AWD version will be a niche product. Remember, the first "SH" is Sport Hybrid, not Super Handling. Not that many are going to pay the premium for the Hybrid tech that happens to give you AWD at the same time.
Why release the FWD first?? Simple, that is the way Honda always does it, pretty much every manufacturer (except Prius) does it. Mainstream product first, Hybrid second. Look at the new Accord... mainstream first, Hybrid later next year.
So for the RLX, the FWD and its many variations, will be the mainstream car. Better value, less emphasis on what many see as an unnecessarily expensive feature (AWD) but they will sell more. For those that want the hybrid or AWD they will pony up, but those buyers will be in the minority.
This new direction doesn't sit well with most on this forum since most here bought the car for the AWD handling. But Acura sold 11 RLs in November. Yes 11. Less than one a month in the entire US. (okay it is on its way out but hasn't sold much better in the last year) Something has to change and Acura is making that change by making the RLX a more affordable, mid-luxury (their words) car, and an option for those that wand hybrid and/or AWD they still have it, they just need to pay the premium.
I like the cars subtle styling. Is it boring? I don't think so. I think it is 'quiet' and refined. If it were in my price range I'd look at it. But I'm more TLX than RL.
As for the Cadillac ATS, I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here. That car comes with three engines:
2.5L I4
2.0L turbo I4
3.6L V6
The 2.5L has been universally criticized as underpowered (201 hp) and having no business being in any car wearing the Cadillac crest. It is an engine that will probably be destined for those cars that go to rental car fleets.
The 2.0 turbo I4 (270hp) is expected to be the volume engine that will go head to head with BMW. The 3.6L (321hp) being the top of the line engine.
All cars will come with RWD or AWD.
The car was launched or could be ordered with any of the configurations (within about a few weeks). If Cadillac would have launched the car with only the "base" configuration, it would have tainted the car as opposed to the glowing reviews it has received to date.
Again, I will be the first to admit that the FWD vs AWD argument is irrelevant for the vast majority of times, especially with this car. Most people who buy these types of cars hardly drive them in such a manner where they would really understand the nuances and "feel" of RWD vs FWD (or AWD for that matter). It really comes down to perception, and when you are trying to sell cars, that's what really matters.
Same goes with respect to having a V8 option. Honda has argued forever that they don't "need" a V8, and I pretty much agree with that, but the problem is that most of your competitors offer a V8 as the "halo" engine, despite the fact that the majority of people will go with the lesser engine.
Take the first gen NSX. It was a rolling testbed of technology that eventually trickled down to the other models. It shattered the belief that exotic car performance and reliability were mutually exclusive.
Despite all that, the NSX never got the respect it deserved in the mainstream and much of that was because people (outside of us Hondaphiles and car geeks) couldn't justify spending $80k-$90K for a V6, when you could go out and buy a Vette with a rumbling V8. They didn't beyond the V8 to understand the titanium engine parts, aluminum body, variable timing, etc.
I have no doubt that the RLX will be an amazing machine (despite the fact that the styling seems a bit bland to me). The 2nd gen RL was too at it's time with SH-AWD, hi tech features, Navtraffic, excellent voice recognition, etc. as others have said, it also beat out many established brands (BMW) in head-to-head tests, but in the end that couldn't help it overcome the fact that it
1. Despite offering SH-AWD, it was FWD based with no RWD option
2. It didn't offer a V8.
The benchmark of the luxury class here is a RWD platform with the option of a V8. All of members of the luxury car class offer that option Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi, Infiniti. Heck, throw Cadillac in the too with the CTS-V.
This is despite the fact that the volume sellers for all of these brands are V6s, and to some extent 4 cylinder engines.
Acura wants to be mentioned in the same breath as those other brands, but I just don't see it happening. It's the same criticisms I remember hearing when I bought my RL almost 7 years ago where we all pondered why that car wasn't respected despite being comparable if not superior to it's competitors.
Again, keep in mind that I am a HUGE Acura fan. My previous three cars were Acuras, my mom still has one, my brother has a TL and I'm trying to convince my sister to get an RDX when she decides to trade in her Murano.
12-04-2012, 11:52 AM
#847
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
The voters have spoken. Outside of the Luxury segment, Honda has 4 models in the top 20 models sold in the US. People want safety, not a race car. RWD is good for a track. FWD is good for the rain. What's the point of putting RWD on a car that isn't a race car? Honda has only done it twice, S2000 and NSX, and they will do it again when they build another race car.
Like Tampa said, you have every opportunity to buy a RWD car with a V8 option. You just won't have a Honda.
Like Tampa said, you have every opportunity to buy a RWD car with a V8 option. You just won't have a Honda.
People usually buy the former because they are looking for good reliable transportation for their families. People buy the latter usually for a status, perception, performance (not necessarily in that order).
Also people who live outside of the snowbelt who are interested in performance care less about FWD or AWD.
I know if I didn't live in the Midwest I would have bought the RWD version of my car as opposed to paying for the AWD version with the additional complexity along with weight and gas mileage penalties it brings with it. Despite the fact that I only deal with REALLY bad snow a few few times compared with the rest of the year. Heck, maybe I would have been able to justify a CTS-V.
12-04-2012, 12:21 PM
#848
Senior Moderator
The voters have spoken. Outside of the Luxury segment, Honda has 4 models in the top 20 models sold in the US. People want safety, not a race car. RWD is good for a track. FWD is good for the rain. What's the point of putting RWD on a car that isn't a race car? Honda has only done it twice, S2000 and NSX, and they will do it again when they build another race car.
Like Tampa said, you have every opportunity to buy a RWD car with a V8 option. You just won't have a Honda.
Like Tampa said, you have every opportunity to buy a RWD car with a V8 option. You just won't have a Honda.
You may now return to your reasonable banter.
12-04-2012, 02:43 PM
#850
why hasn't honda made more out of the V8s used in the Indy car series? I know it is strictly a racing engine, but no spillover?
12-04-2012, 03:16 PM
#851
Burning Brakes
CAFE standards would be the primary reason. Also, Honda/Acura have apparently figured out how to build a hybrid-assisted V6 with V8 power and 4-cylinder fuel efficiency.
12-04-2012, 03:42 PM
#852
Wow, lots of creamed panties here in RLX land. For Honda's sake I hope it sells.
12-04-2012, 04:03 PM
#853
If the Sport Hybrid were out first, I'd be signing up to buy it now even if it is first edition of all new technology
Waiting until next fall is going to be tough
Waiting until next fall is going to be tough
12-04-2012, 04:09 PM
#854
Some pics of the LA Auto Show - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vx6ec0cto8dv16q/bPC51m4_jV#/
12-04-2012, 07:25 PM
#855
Burning Brakes
Up until 2005, the Legend/3.5RL has always looked something like an enlarged Accord. The first Legend sedan looked like a beefy Accord of its day. The 2G Legend distinguished itself a bit more from the Accord, but still didn't play in the same field as Lexus/Infiniti at the high end. These cars were all unmistakably Hondas. Then they changed the name with the 3.5RL (a discussion of its own). The 2G RL went in a different direction, keeping some of the Accord family cues but adding much more technology and luxury. It competed well against the GS, M, A6, 5-series, S-class, etc, but fell off the sales chart. Along comes the RLX mixing the original formula with the latest: some Accord styling cues, larger size, lots of technology. Family resemblance has somehow worked for Audi, Mercedes, and Lexus -- these days it's sometimes hard to tell one model from another. It shouldn't be surprising that Acura has some Honda cues. There's only so many ways to shape/style a car, and Honda probably more closely linked to Acura than Toyota is to Lexus. However, say what you will about the ILX, it and the RLX have some common lines unique to the brand.
Acura has been trying to find its identity for some time, adding a controversial grille to the mix. Until recently, it's been the MDX and TL that have defined the brand. Now we'll see if the formula can give Acura an identity at the high end.
I'll wait to pass judgment until I see one in person (the 2G RL looks better in person than photos). The interior photos look like there's some attractive luxury features.
One thing to remember is that Hondas have had a way of aging fairly gracefully -- looking better after time has passed.
Acura has been trying to find its identity for some time, adding a controversial grille to the mix. Until recently, it's been the MDX and TL that have defined the brand. Now we'll see if the formula can give Acura an identity at the high end.
I'll wait to pass judgment until I see one in person (the 2G RL looks better in person than photos). The interior photos look like there's some attractive luxury features.
One thing to remember is that Hondas have had a way of aging fairly gracefully -- looking better after time has passed.
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nore03 (12-05-2012)
12-04-2012, 10:56 PM
#856
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Up until 2005, the Legend/3.5RL has always looked something like an enlarged Accord. The first Legend sedan looked like a beefy Accord of its day. The 2G Legend distinguished itself a bit more from the Accord, but still didn't play in the same field as Lexus/Infiniti at the high end. These cars were all unmistakably Hondas. Then they changed the name with the 3.5RL (a discussion of its own). The 2G RL went in a different direction, keeping some of the Accord family cues but adding much more technology and luxury. It competed well against the GS, M, A6, 5-series, S-class, etc, but fell off the sales chart. Along comes the RLX mixing the original formula with the latest: some Accord styling cues, larger size, lots of technology. Family resemblance has somehow worked for Audi, Mercedes, and Lexus -- these days it's sometimes hard to tell one model from another. It shouldn't be surprising that Acura has some Honda cues. There's only so many ways to shape/style a car, and Honda probably more closely linked to Acura than Toyota is to Lexus. However, say what you will about the ILX, it and the RLX have some common lines unique to the brand.
Acura has been trying to find its identity for some time, adding a controversial grille to the mix. Until recently, it's been the MDX and TL that have defined the brand. Now we'll see if the formula can give Acura an identity at the high end.
I'll wait to pass judgment until I see one in person (the 2G RL looks better in person than photos). The interior photos look like there's some attractive luxury features.
One thing to remember is that Hondas have had a way of aging fairly gracefully -- looking better after time has passed.
Acura has been trying to find its identity for some time, adding a controversial grille to the mix. Until recently, it's been the MDX and TL that have defined the brand. Now we'll see if the formula can give Acura an identity at the high end.
I'll wait to pass judgment until I see one in person (the 2G RL looks better in person than photos). The interior photos look like there's some attractive luxury features.
One thing to remember is that Hondas have had a way of aging fairly gracefully -- looking better after time has passed.
Family resemblance is OK within your brand (ILX, TL, RLX, OR Lexus ES, GS or LS). It cheapens the brand when it closely resembles the downmarket brand (Honda or Toyota). You don't see Audis and VWs closely resembling each other, nor does the ES look anything like a Camry.
You are beginning to see Infiniti design elements trickling down to the Nissan brand.
12-04-2012, 11:35 PM
#857
Burning Brakes
Family resemblance is OK within your brand (ILX, TL, RLX, OR Lexus ES, GS or LS). It cheapens the brand when it closely resembles the downmarket brand (Honda or Toyota). You don't see Audis and VWs closely resembling each other, nor does the ES look anything like a Camry.
You are beginning to see Infiniti design elements trickling down to the Nissan brand.
You are beginning to see Infiniti design elements trickling down to the Nissan brand.
My first 2 Legends (88 and 95) had engines that said "Honda" right on them. My 2G RL has Acura labeling everywhere so even though it was a Honda Legend elsewhere, they at least put forth the effort to Acura-ize it. (Which didn't stop me from tearing off the RL logo and placing LEGEND on the trunk!)
I think the RLX can succeed for Acura. I'll have to see it in person, but it looks unique enough to stand out in the showroom and on the road. Certainly more than the 2G RL could in the showroom.
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GoHawks (12-05-2012)
12-05-2012, 07:27 AM
#858
Bodes well for the RLX driving experience. From Car and Driver -
"honda accord
The family sedan, elevated.
Let us get this straight: The new Accord has ditched its control-arm front suspension for struts; a CVT has displaced its four-cylinder's step-gear automatic; and gasoline direct injection is new this year—but only on the four—nine years after Audi first offered it in the U.S. So why is this car back on this list for a record 27th time? It's not because the Accord is a looker. What it has is inner beauty: Luxury-car big inside and yet smaller outside than before, this ninth-gen version fully delivers on Honda's "man-maximum, machine-minimum" philosophy. The Accord's greatness has always derived from its ability to disappear under its driver, but this new car verges on the ethereal—it is so easy to see out of, so easy to point into a corner, so elegant and light and forgiving in its responses that one big fluid loop develops between man and machine. This is true whether you're talking about the base four-cylinder sedan or the six-cylinder coupe with its clockwork manual. Its playful and graceful spirit makes taking grandma to the doctor and the kids to soccer and the boss to lunch no chore. You only think it's a driving appliance until you drive it. Then you understand."
"honda accord
The family sedan, elevated.
Let us get this straight: The new Accord has ditched its control-arm front suspension for struts; a CVT has displaced its four-cylinder's step-gear automatic; and gasoline direct injection is new this year—but only on the four—nine years after Audi first offered it in the U.S. So why is this car back on this list for a record 27th time? It's not because the Accord is a looker. What it has is inner beauty: Luxury-car big inside and yet smaller outside than before, this ninth-gen version fully delivers on Honda's "man-maximum, machine-minimum" philosophy. The Accord's greatness has always derived from its ability to disappear under its driver, but this new car verges on the ethereal—it is so easy to see out of, so easy to point into a corner, so elegant and light and forgiving in its responses that one big fluid loop develops between man and machine. This is true whether you're talking about the base four-cylinder sedan or the six-cylinder coupe with its clockwork manual. Its playful and graceful spirit makes taking grandma to the doctor and the kids to soccer and the boss to lunch no chore. You only think it's a driving appliance until you drive it. Then you understand."
12-06-2012, 04:05 AM
#859
Summer is Coming
Yeah, except that luxury buyers equate FWD with a lower-priced car, and the Lexus ES is already firmly in command of this segment for $10,000 less.
Any way you slice it -- even if you personally believe the product is worth it -- Honda's decision to ask this price for this product is an exercise in self-delusion.
Any way you slice it -- even if you personally believe the product is worth it -- Honda's decision to ask this price for this product is an exercise in self-delusion.
Anyway you cut it this won't be a high volume car. Acura has stated they are not trying to compete in the Tier 1 Luxury category (smart luxury they called it). So yes they are looking to be lower in price and FWD is part of how they do that.
12-06-2012, 04:22 AM
#860
Summer is Coming
Actually no. GM introduced the recently refreshed Malibu, they brought out the the Hybrid first and it got panned because as Hybrids go, it wasn't much of one and the concern was that it would taint the rest of the trim levels.
As for the Cadillac ATS, I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here. That car comes with three engines:
2.5L I4
2.0L turbo I4
3.6L V6
The 2.5L has been universally criticized as underpowered (201 hp) and having no business being in any car wearing the Cadillac crest. It is an engine that will probably be destined for those cars that go to rental car fleets.
The 2.0 turbo I4 (270hp) is expected to be the volume engine that will go head to head with BMW. The 3.6L (321hp) being the top of the line engine.
All cars will come with RWD or AWD.
The car was launched or could be ordered with any of the configurations (within about a few weeks). If Cadillac would have launched the car with only the "base" configuration, it would have tainted the car as opposed to the glowing reviews it has received to date.
Again, I will be the first to admit that the FWD vs AWD argument is irrelevant for the vast majority of times, especially with this car. Most people who buy these types of cars hardly drive them in such a manner where they would really understand the nuances and "feel" of RWD vs FWD (or AWD for that matter). It really comes down to perception, and when you are trying to sell cars, that's what really matters.
Same goes with respect to having a V8 option. Honda has argued forever that they don't "need" a V8, and I pretty much agree with that, but the problem is that most of your competitors offer a V8 as the "halo" engine, despite the fact that the majority of people will go with the lesser engine.
Take the first gen NSX. It was a rolling testbed of technology that eventually trickled down to the other models. It shattered the belief that exotic car performance and reliability were mutually exclusive.
Despite all that, the NSX never got the respect it deserved in the mainstream and much of that was because people (outside of us Hondaphiles and car geeks) couldn't justify spending $80k-$90K for a V6, when you could go out and buy a Vette with a rumbling V8. They didn't beyond the V8 to understand the titanium engine parts, aluminum body, variable timing, etc.
I have no doubt that the RLX will be an amazing machine (despite the fact that the styling seems a bit bland to me). The 2nd gen RL was too at it's time with SH-AWD, hi tech features, Navtraffic, excellent voice recognition, etc. as others have said, it also beat out many established brands (BMW) in head-to-head tests, but in the end that couldn't help it overcome the fact that it
1. Despite offering SH-AWD, it was FWD based with no RWD option
2. It didn't offer a V8.
The benchmark of the luxury class here is a RWD platform with the option of a V8. All of members of the luxury car class offer that option Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi, Infiniti. Heck, throw Cadillac in the too with the CTS-V.
This is despite the fact that the volume sellers for all of these brands are V6s, and to some extent 4 cylinder engines.
Acura wants to be mentioned in the same breath as those other brands, but I just don't see it happening. It's the same criticisms I remember hearing when I bought my RL almost 7 years ago where we all pondered why that car wasn't respected despite being comparable if not superior to it's competitors.
Again, keep in mind that I am a HUGE Acura fan. My previous three cars were Acuras, my mom still has one, my brother has a TL and I'm trying to convince my sister to get an RDX when she decides to trade in her Murano.
As for the Cadillac ATS, I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here. That car comes with three engines:
2.5L I4
2.0L turbo I4
3.6L V6
The 2.5L has been universally criticized as underpowered (201 hp) and having no business being in any car wearing the Cadillac crest. It is an engine that will probably be destined for those cars that go to rental car fleets.
The 2.0 turbo I4 (270hp) is expected to be the volume engine that will go head to head with BMW. The 3.6L (321hp) being the top of the line engine.
All cars will come with RWD or AWD.
The car was launched or could be ordered with any of the configurations (within about a few weeks). If Cadillac would have launched the car with only the "base" configuration, it would have tainted the car as opposed to the glowing reviews it has received to date.
Again, I will be the first to admit that the FWD vs AWD argument is irrelevant for the vast majority of times, especially with this car. Most people who buy these types of cars hardly drive them in such a manner where they would really understand the nuances and "feel" of RWD vs FWD (or AWD for that matter). It really comes down to perception, and when you are trying to sell cars, that's what really matters.
Same goes with respect to having a V8 option. Honda has argued forever that they don't "need" a V8, and I pretty much agree with that, but the problem is that most of your competitors offer a V8 as the "halo" engine, despite the fact that the majority of people will go with the lesser engine.
Take the first gen NSX. It was a rolling testbed of technology that eventually trickled down to the other models. It shattered the belief that exotic car performance and reliability were mutually exclusive.
Despite all that, the NSX never got the respect it deserved in the mainstream and much of that was because people (outside of us Hondaphiles and car geeks) couldn't justify spending $80k-$90K for a V6, when you could go out and buy a Vette with a rumbling V8. They didn't beyond the V8 to understand the titanium engine parts, aluminum body, variable timing, etc.
I have no doubt that the RLX will be an amazing machine (despite the fact that the styling seems a bit bland to me). The 2nd gen RL was too at it's time with SH-AWD, hi tech features, Navtraffic, excellent voice recognition, etc. as others have said, it also beat out many established brands (BMW) in head-to-head tests, but in the end that couldn't help it overcome the fact that it
1. Despite offering SH-AWD, it was FWD based with no RWD option
2. It didn't offer a V8.
The benchmark of the luxury class here is a RWD platform with the option of a V8. All of members of the luxury car class offer that option Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi, Infiniti. Heck, throw Cadillac in the too with the CTS-V.
This is despite the fact that the volume sellers for all of these brands are V6s, and to some extent 4 cylinder engines.
Acura wants to be mentioned in the same breath as those other brands, but I just don't see it happening. It's the same criticisms I remember hearing when I bought my RL almost 7 years ago where we all pondered why that car wasn't respected despite being comparable if not superior to it's competitors.
Again, keep in mind that I am a HUGE Acura fan. My previous three cars were Acuras, my mom still has one, my brother has a TL and I'm trying to convince my sister to get an RDX when she decides to trade in her Murano.
Acura isn't going for the Tier 1 market. At least that is what they said in the past. No it will not compete with the Tier 1 flagship cars, but they are hoping to attract a buyer that wants better value. That hasn't worked very well lately. Maybe the new RLX will be better. I guess we'll see in the coming year if this model works better.
12-06-2012, 06:32 AM
#861
Senior Moderator
I don't even think they are worried about RLX sales. Acura said it themselves in the transcript from the previous page that they know it won't be a volume seller.
I see two things:
1) Acura realizes they need a flagship higher than the TL. Without one, Hyundai would be considered a more luxurious brand. Many thought the RL would die because of its neglect and poor showing at EOL. The RLX just has to be present to help Acura. It doesn't have to sell better than the RL in its first 3 years.
2) The RLX is not a dream of the marketing department. It's is a rolling test bed for the R&D team. The only car more important to a brand than the flagship is the halo. In two years, Acura is going to unleash a beast that will help define their standing in the car world. It just so happens to have the same drivetrain as the RLX. There is no coincidence there.
I see two things:
1) Acura realizes they need a flagship higher than the TL. Without one, Hyundai would be considered a more luxurious brand. Many thought the RL would die because of its neglect and poor showing at EOL. The RLX just has to be present to help Acura. It doesn't have to sell better than the RL in its first 3 years.
2) The RLX is not a dream of the marketing department. It's is a rolling test bed for the R&D team. The only car more important to a brand than the flagship is the halo. In two years, Acura is going to unleash a beast that will help define their standing in the car world. It just so happens to have the same drivetrain as the RLX. There is no coincidence there.
12-06-2012, 07:44 PM
#865
I don't even think they are worried about RLX sales. Acura said it themselves in the transcript from the previous page that they know it won't be a volume seller.
I see two things:
1) Acura realizes they need a flagship higher than the TL. Without one, Hyundai would be considered a more luxurious brand. Many thought the RL would die because of its neglect and poor showing at EOL. The RLX just has to be present to help Acura. It doesn't have to sell better than the RL in its first 3 years.
2) The RLX is not a dream of the marketing department. It's is a rolling test bed for the R&D team. The only car more important to a brand than the flagship is the halo. In two years, Acura is going to unleash a beast that will help define their standing in the car world. It just so happens to have the same drivetrain as the RLX. There is no coincidence there.
I see two things:
1) Acura realizes they need a flagship higher than the TL. Without one, Hyundai would be considered a more luxurious brand. Many thought the RL would die because of its neglect and poor showing at EOL. The RLX just has to be present to help Acura. It doesn't have to sell better than the RL in its first 3 years.
2) The RLX is not a dream of the marketing department. It's is a rolling test bed for the R&D team. The only car more important to a brand than the flagship is the halo. In two years, Acura is going to unleash a beast that will help define their standing in the car world. It just so happens to have the same drivetrain as the RLX. There is no coincidence there.
12-06-2012, 08:35 PM
#866
Maybe RLX owners will be the beta testers for the NSX. All I know is the photos Glashub took of the NSX at the LA Auto Show are serious eye candy. Man, what a beautiful car!
The following users liked this post:
Glashub (12-06-2012)
12-06-2012, 08:53 PM
#867
Senior Moderator
The RWHP is so much the front of the car lifts off the ground! 
Just like my car's original owner was a beta tester for the ass kicking drivetrain of your previous TL.
What is really pretty impressive about the SH-AWD is I can't recall a single failure of the system reported here that was due to factory defect.
Just like my car's original owner was a beta tester for the ass kicking drivetrain of your previous TL. What is really pretty impressive about the SH-AWD is I can't recall a single failure of the system reported here that was due to factory defect.
Last edited by oo7spy; 12-06-2012 at 09:00 PM.
12-06-2012, 09:11 PM
#868
To me the NSX proves that Acura has some serious design chops when it wants to. You're right oo7spy, the SH-AWD is remarkable.
12-06-2012, 09:53 PM
#869
Burning Brakes
Can't recall any transmission issues on the 05-12 RL's either. The drivetrain on the RL has been pretty much bulletproof....except for those pesky driveshaft bearings.
12-07-2012, 05:02 AM
#871
Senior Moderator
SH-AWD is so good that other manufacturers are actually marketing their similar solutions.....and unfortunately better than Acura did. That was one of the best features of my RL.
I can't wait to see what the SH-SH-AWD system can really do. Even though I won't be buying an RLX right away, I hope to eventually have the opportunity to at least try it.
.....and +1 on how hot the NSX is. Pass that DNA down to the other Acuras please.
I can't wait to see what the SH-SH-AWD system can really do. Even though I won't be buying an RLX right away, I hope to eventually have the opportunity to at least try it.
.....and +1 on how hot the NSX is. Pass that DNA down to the other Acuras please.
Last edited by neuronbob; 12-07-2012 at 05:05 AM.
12-07-2012, 07:36 AM
#872
Карты убийцы
SH-AWD is so good that other manufacturers are actually marketing their similar solutions.....and unfortunately better than Acura did. That was one of the best features of my RL.
I can't wait to see what the SH-SH-AWD system can really do. Even though I won't be buying an RLX right away, I hope to eventually have the opportunity to at least try it.
.....and +1 on how hot the NSX is. Pass that DNA down to the other Acuras please.
I can't wait to see what the SH-SH-AWD system can really do. Even though I won't be buying an RLX right away, I hope to eventually have the opportunity to at least try it.
.....and +1 on how hot the NSX is. Pass that DNA down to the other Acuras please.
12-07-2012, 09:08 AM
#873
I spend 2 much time here
i also go to audizine.com and there are many posts about sport differential issues with the S4s. What is even worse is that is a much smaller production vehicle and the sport differential is an option that needs to be added so that means the sample size is even smaller. Yet they have far more quality issues it seems than Acura Sh-awd.
12-07-2012, 09:15 AM
#874
As a former RL owner and current 535 xdrive M sport owner. The RLX has to be spectacular to compete against the 5 and the GS. The 5 does everything better than the RL. The handling, ride, perceived acceleration, shifting etc all seem to be at a higher level, from the seat.
Now, if the 5 would just stop going through batteries.......
Now, if the 5 would just stop going through batteries.......
12-07-2012, 01:32 PM
#875
Randy is the Future
Agero Connected Services to Power Acura's Next-Generation AcuraLink® Connected Car System
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/12/07/503...-to-power.html
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/12/07/503...-to-power.html
12-07-2012, 02:01 PM
#876
Just noticed there is a 3G RLX forum. Should new posts about RLX go there?
12-07-2012, 04:50 PM
#877
I was hoping moderators could move this thread to the new 3rd generation RL (or is this now the first generation of the RLX?)
Thanks in advance..
Thanks in advance..
12-08-2012, 10:03 AM
#878
Instructor
+1 for the SH-AWD system being solid. I really love this feature and can't wait to get my AWD RLX with toque vectoring on both axles.
And, with some luck (and a big stack of cash), it will be joined by an NSX in '15
And, with some luck (and a big stack of cash), it will be joined by an NSX in '15
