My plan would be downpipe and midpipe. hondata in the future when the car can stay parked to allow turnaround time.

 

Sounds like a plan. I would recommend Hondata first if you can since it's cheaper. You'll get some MPGs from that too.

I got them all and am glad I did. I wouldn't want to ride without them.

 

I will be putting the pipes back on Alper Motorsports webpage,
I will try to keep the mild steel one in stock,

The big issue is one of the items I use is from pro-werks and it seems to be out of stock time to time,

I think I can lower the price do to the fact that if it is cut correctly, I can get 2 pipes out of one donut, that will help bring the cost down about $50 per mild steel and $100 per SS

if you have any questions you can contact Alper Motorsports at
702 327 9907

 

Yea I want to do hondata asap now I know what kinda play money I have. Especially since you can get the forms through I believe. I cant figure out how to get it though.

 

why isnt this done in a single tube? mandrel bent seems like that would be the fastest way and avoiding over cost due to more labor

 

Is that the 2nd O2 port located lower on the Down Pipe ? Its extended?

 

Yes and Yes.

 

So I just read through the whole thread..... If I understood correctly. The primary 02 sensor can be relocated to the midpipe in turn avoiding the check engine light. Is this right or did I misunderstand?

 

Also can anyone confirm that this harness will work on the rdx. Thanks

 

you can also extend your own wiring too or you can used that plug on the web site.as long as all the wire are in the right places then you should be good.

 

We are working on a down pipe with a Free Flow Cat, would like to see if that work the same as the straight pipe,

 

Hey Jason, I am the one you are working on that for. There are a couple others that are interested in the combo you are building for me. Just as a heads up for anyone interested; I do not plan on having a before and after dyno done unless anyone wants to donate their dyno for this exercise. I am going off others experience that this set up will yield a 30-40 HP gain in addition to the MPG gains, hopefully without any CEL.

I am sure one of us will update once Jason has this bad boy built. More to come...

Joe

 

Any word on the progress?

 

Still waiting on a 3" stainless steel donut. Lead time is about one month so hopefully Jason or I have an update soon. I hope that donut can be used for more than one application. I would hate for you guys to like it and have to wait a month+ each time an order comes in. Then again, demand for these are not exactly the same as they are for Corvette or Camaro performance parts...

 

very interested with all the happenings going on...

 

Yeah these two items will be in demand once FlashPro comes out. We have a whole new world coming guys.

 

Can't wait for the downpipe and flashpro. Hopefully rxtreme and alper can get that down and mid pipe worked out. With just the intake and intercooler there's an obvious improvement over stock. Can't wait for the major free up from the down pipe and the flashpro! Hopefully somebody gave hondata a 2010 model to work with by now....

 

3" donut is due in this week. I will start coordinating with Jason once it arrives. I wish I could get a before and after dyno with just the mid pipe, down pipe, exhaust, and flash pro. I really want to know what the gains will be on this combo. I am avoiding intake mods for the time being. Jason or I will post something once he completes. I will make sure pictures are taken on the install.

On a seperate note, I want your guys opinion on the custom exhaust I purchased. It is pretty nice, but the guy before me used mild steel welds instead of stainless. The welds were pretty rusted after one winter. The rest of the exhaust is high quality stainless components including resonator, muffler, piping, and tips. I sanded down the welds to bare metal and painted everything with VHT paint to see if they can be protected against the harsh northeast elements, but I want you guys to weigh in if this is a futile effort to protect the inferior welds on the system.

 

RXtreme i sen you a PM but never got a reply..

is it possible to have a cat added to the midpipe? and if so what the cost going to be total?

 

Sorry, never got the PM. The set up you are asking is exactly what I am doing. I am having a hi-flow cat added to the midpipe and that 1st cat in the downpipe deleted. That is exactly why I asked Jason (jalper) to make this for me. He has done this set up before and be was willing to do it again for me and hopefully all of you guys. This quest originally started when I tried buying a used one he made off of eBay and he sold it before I could jump at it. Since I know it worked, fit well, and overcame the issue others have had with a CEL, exhaust smell, etc., that is why I am going this route. Kind of sucks that it has taken this long, but I am hoping the wait is worth it. As mentioned in another post; I am also hoping the donut being used to make the mendrel bends can be used more than once to fill a couple of you interested in this set up. I will try calling Jason tomorrow and getting some updates. As a feeler, how many peeps would be interested in this? Not exactly sure of the cost, but stainless with a cat should still be under a 1000...have to confirm with Jason to be sure.

 

i'd want all catless...and it'd have to mount to stock exhaust

 

I'm interested

 

Jason I believe already has this set up built. It is what you see in the above picture that was posted a while ago. That is completely catless. He does have a different clamp/connector that he mentioned that connects the midpipe to the exhaust that is easier and better (and should mount to the stock exhaust)...let me see if I can get him to chime in, I do not want to keep speaking for him. He knows alot more than me on what he can and is willing to do and he can confirm prices, as well.

 

#1 priority once flashpro is out... injector upgrades. The stock injectors are not big enough, not even close.

 

could get the 520 cc from CT.. its 110 about the stock ones i think??

 

Not big enough for what? I have not heard much about the stock injectors not being large enough for bolt ons. What are the upper limits of the stock injectors? ...and fuel pump and torque converter...if we are going down this path.

 

nobody knows...virgin territory. fuel wise we'd just have to look at current capacity max and duty cycle %

 

Those are for the Civic Si, different plugs

Not big enough for turning up the boost + bolt ons. The RDX injectors are used on other platforms and they have consistently been shown to only be good for 260-270hp.

Just upgrading the injectors should provide plenty of overhead for the stock turbo. For pump gas, 725-750cc should be adequate. If people want to play with E85, 1000-1200 would be ideal. This is from my personal experience with several boosted K20/K24's. We might want to look at upgrading the fuel pump at some point, but I doubt it will be important for people with the stock turbo.

This is all going to be relative to how much people decide to push things. Upgrade the turbo and things will get crazy quickly.

 

At the wheels or crank? If the RDX's injectors can only handle 20-30 HP gain over stock that is a pretty low margin of error. Also, I would have sworn between Shawn Church's dyno testing and others that have combined bolt ons with the Hondata flash over the years that there have been close to 60 HP gains with the stock injectors with few issues. Some bolt ons leaned out the A/F ratio with Hondata (CP-E intake), but I did not hear that it was tied to the injectors. Am I way off here or has this been a issue ignored with what limited modifications this car has?

 

yes, yes... Muuhuuhuhahahahaahaaaa!

 

if I remember correctly the stock turbo is pretty much maxed out. I am talking to Blouch performance turbo in lebnon pa about possibly using my vehicle as a test mule for a turbo upgrade and to see what will be needed next hoping that the flash-pro comes out soon and that we will have some good news come from all of this. as far as a mass produced turbo back I talked to MBS in passadena MD they were willing and able to make a Bolton mandrel bent 3inch SS turbo back exhaust. ill get more info on that if there is any interest.

 

^ was quoted 500 through local muffler shop for 3 inch exhaust mandrell bent, with ATLP being 1k+ and shawn church being close to that.. my guess is ill be sticking locally unless some decent exhaust shows up for around the same price

 

At the wheels. And there have been people reporting having lean issues when having all the mods you can have on this car.

Like I said though, we've been using these RDX 410cc injectors for years on other cars. They are really really small. Honda really didn't leave much overhead in them... but that's really quite normal for Honda. They like to have their injectors running a high duty cycle at high RPM so they are in the sweet spot flow / spray pattern wise.

Case in point, on my 2011 Si, stock, with nothing more than flashpro, I was running 85% duty cycle on the stock fuel injectors, which are 310cc. This is making 200whp.

If you think about how much larger the RDX ones are... would you really expect them to support much more power? If they flow 33% more fuel, that works out to supporting 265-270 whp. Now you can raise the fuel pressure to offset this somewhat and add a tad more overhead (which who knows, Honda may have done so), but that is subject to the law of diminishing returns.

And if you are unfamiliar with boost on a returnless fuel system, you won't know about pressure differential and how it affects fuel flow. As you raise the boost, it creates an opposing force on the tip of the injector. This creates an effective fuel pressure drop that increases dynamically as boost pressure rises. This impedes flow and reduces the amount of power you can make from the injectors. So if you start with a 63 psi base fuel pressure and run 20 psi of boost, you're only actually getting 43 psi worth of fuel flow out of your injector. When the resultant fuel pressure becomes too low, your spray pattern out of the injector starts to suffer as well.

On the Si, when we stay returnless, we crush the fuel pressure regulator to raise the static fuel pressure so we can run more boost with the stock fuel system. It counteracts the pressure differential to give us more overhead and keep a decent spray pattern. But inevitably, if you want to run lots of boost and make lots of power, you end up converting to a rising rate fuel return setup.

All of that said, for 450whp or less, almost everyone just runs 1000-1200cc injectors, a crushed FPR and a high flow fuel pump, and it's fine returnless. That's why in my initial statement, I just said, eh, upgrade the injectors. I REALLY doubt anyone is going to put stress on the stock fuel system with the stock turbo, as long as they upgrade the injectors.

Sorry for the TLR; material, just wanted to be clear here.

We won't know for sure until we start playing. When a turbo goes off the end of it's compressor map, it starts making a lot of heat. OEM's have to put in a decent margin there to keep IAT's down for longevity. I would expect there's a decent amount of power to be made by turning up the boost as long as you can cool the air. This is where having the upgraded intercooler and/or a front mount would become important.

But again, we won't know for sure until we start playing.

 

errrrrrr...... scratch everything I just said about returnless fuel systems....

The RDX has a fuel return stock.... crazy, didn't know that. Never seen that documented anywhere. It has a boost connection too, so it should raise pressure with boost. Damn we should be in really good shape with the fuel system. I still stick by my statement that we'll need to upgrade injectors. But we should be able to get a bit more out of the stock injectors than I originally thought.

This is going to be so much fun.

 

Damn, Mucter, that was a lot of verbiage to get to the answer I wanted to hear! I wonder if the stock fuel return system has anything to do with the direct injection set up. The mazdaspeed 3/6 has a similar set up...I know they are different, but alot of similarities in their techologies/set up. That engine could put out over 300 at the wheels before running into fuel issues, starting at the fuel pump, then the injectors. Anyways, it's good that we may have a little wiggle room before upgrading the fuel system. I am not looking to drag race my RDX so if I legitimately and reliably got an extra 50-60 HP I would be more than happy.

Still waiting to hear something from Jason on the downpipe/midpipe. I will try calling him.

 

Hmm, RDX MODS? It's a ton of work and money for a CUV. Really, C'mon, this thing is overweight and too tall. If this set-up was in a Civic or TSX it would be worth all that effort.
Sure spend a months pay on the RDX motor, you'll still be getting stomped on at the track by a 17 yr old in a WRX.

 

The RDX isn't direct injected. It's port injected like any normal Honda motor from the last 20+ years. Only the brand new ED engines have DI.

 

Damn, you are right. I had believed it was direct injected for the longest time...I am not the only one that had believed this:

http://www.caranddriver.com/photos-0...e-photo-294729

Photo of the engine has it quoted as direct injection and it was not the first time I have seen a major magazine quote this.

I had read the engine as DI going back for a while. Stupid me never dug under the hood enough to know that was a false statement. Oh, well, learn a little more each day...

 

The RDX plugs are direct plug and play into the 8th gen civic Si, I have them in my Si currently. They are 410cc over the factory si's 310cc. All you need are different clips, so I am guessing they will work the same way if you got the correct clips.

and yes I am also interested in these parts. Any news on flash pro? It is a joy to have on the si.

 

Yes it's true that the RDX injector pins will pin into Si injectors. The issue is the clips as you said. The problem is, currently there is no source for the clips independently. You'd have to get them off an Si harness. So there's still some work to be done there. I know that Hondata is working with injector manufacturers already to get some PNP harnesses made for injectors for this car. There will likely be something available soon.