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Most certainly agree, that ad is light years better than those Made for Mankind ones, bravo!
In fact, the main reason why I like it, is it doesn't contain a lot of marketing / sales mumbo jumbo. It just simply shows an awesome product, and tells you who makes it, and when its available. IF you want to know more, go to an Acura dealership. Mission accomplished.
Also, it doesn't try to explain VTEC poorly, which the average consumer neither understands nor cares for.
weak yen? Honda almost exclusively North American brand now. this shows how much you know about it.
Uhmm - a weak Yen vs. the dollar is exactly what is helping propel Honda's profits, esp. as Honda is overly dependent on the US market.
Shows you have zero understanding about how currency valuations can affect profits (whether it comes from sales of US built or Japan built autos.
Yes, Honda doesn't benefit as much as Toyota or Nissan, but they still benefit from a weak Yen.
According to Nakanishi's estimates, every 1 yen decline against the dollar means an additional ¥45 billion to ¥47 billion, or about $350 million at current rates, in annual profits for the Japanese auto industry.
Measuring from last September's level to135, Nakanishi's yardstick indicates the Japanese industry would have reaped a windfall of nearly $7 billion, if the rate stayed at 135 for a full year.
Measuring from the ¥100 level indicates that the Japanese could collect more than $12 billion in foreign-exchange profits, again if the yen stays at 135 for a full year.
A comparatively strong Won has hurt the Koreans, altho the Won has started to weaken late last year as investors have started to pull $$ out of Korea due to increasing uncertainties with the emerging markets, including Korea's largest trading partner, China.
A weaker Won would add a billion+ to the coffers of Hyundai and a billion to Kia.
Partially offsetting the weak Won vs. the Dollar for Honda has been the weakening Canadian dollar, as well as the currencies for Mexico and Brazil.
But H/K have been more affected by those weakening currencies (as the Won is stronger against them than the Yen), as well as the Russian Ruble where H/K has a strong presence (largest import share).
Hyundai has its largest marketshare ever for the BRIM markets, but those gains have been negatively affected by the currency swings for BR and M.
it is the quality of sales not the quantity that matter. HRV and Pilot saleing at MRSP.
And Hyundai is selling the Tucson and Santa Fe at top dollar, but have much more limited supply than Honda does of its crossovers.
That will change for 2016 as Tucson supply will rise to around 100k and Santa Fe supply will increase as Hyundai adds production to its Alabama plant.
Btw, were you saying the same thing a few years ago when the Elantra was selling for an ATP that was $500 higher than the Civic and $1,500 higher than the Corolla at the time?
Like I had stated numerous times before, Hyundai execs have been painstakingly slow in expanding Hyundai's crossover lineup, much less increasing supply of the CUVs that they do have (some of slowness being due to tough Korean auto union which fights tooth and nail whenever there are changes requested on production #s for specific models).
The Korean auto union is starting to realize that they can't be so rigid - recently agreeing to the doubling of Genesis G90 production to 32k, as previous set production would barely cover Korean demand (buyers would still have a 10 month wait), much less demand for other markets.
How many RLX's do you think Honda produces yearly?
Along with a weakening Won, increased Tucson and Santa Fe sales due to greater supply and sales of the G90 will improve Hyundai's bottom line and that's before adding a subcompact CUV, much less luxury crossovers - which are both in development.
Also, in the future, the economic situations in Russia and Brazil will improve.
Hond also eliminated Insight/Civic Hybrid/ILX hybrid/Ridgeline.
LOL!!!
Yeah, like any of those were sellers of any significance for Honda.
If anything, Honda is better off financially not having them around (development and marketing costs, not to mention legal costs and compensation to Civic hybrid owners).
And speaking of the Ridgeline, the new one should be hitting the lots soon, but while the more standard pick-up styling is an improvement over the somewhat polarizing styling of the previous Ridgeline, Honda is making a mistake trying to make the new Ridgeline more of a competitor to the traditional pick-up.
TSX/TL replaced by one car.
And who decided that?
And not really, as Acura now has the ILX and TLX slotting underneath the RLX, moving Acura downmarket.
And speaking of the RLX, the Equus and K900 only have 1 motor (a V8 at that), no AWD and are priced higher than the RLX and yet, both outsold the RLX in 2015.
Mid size Accord has two engines which H/K groupd use 1.6T/2.0T/2.4 in mid size Optima/Sonata. this is just one example of over expanding.
No - it's called giving the buyer options.
Think about how many engine options (among other things) the Germans give the buyer.
HRV just replaced Fit sales. HRV higher transaction price vehicle. Fit are only imported now from Japan to make room for HRV at mexico plant.
Probably took more from Civic (as the HR-V is a good bit more than the Fit).
That still doesn't change the fact that Honda, GM, Nissan and now Mazda are presently the only 4 automakers offering a mainstream, subcompact CUV in the US, so anyone who wants one has to buy from them (until Ford, H/K, Toyota, etc. enter the segment).
Show me the revenues and profits and market cap. I can bet this quarter Honda revenue will exceed H/K group revenues.
$5.4B - Hyundai operating profit for 2015
$5.7B - estimated Honda operating profit for fiscal yr ending March 2016
Really not that diff. (albeit slightly diff. fiscal yrs).
If the Won had been the weaker currency, Hyundai would have the higher operating profit, and that's w/o any additions (in particular, crossovers) to its lineup, or increased supply of crossovers.
you can sell to rental fleets.
The increase for 2015 was mostly due to Hyundai selling off the aged Elantra.
Tooling had been paid for and while demand for sedans has slowed, Hyundai kept its Alabama plant running 3 shifts rather than shut down a shift, so sold off lots of the Elantra to fleet.
not enough CUV/SUVs? is this a joke like your previous excuses of limited production and lack of north american factories. H/K group has many more SUVs than Honda.
the growth era of H/K is over.
Again, your ignorance and lack of comprehension shows.
H/K may have more models, but Honda/Acura has CUVs that compete in more segments.
H/K
compact - Tucson/Sportage
tweener - Santa Fe Sport/Sorento
midsize - Santa Fe
Honda
subcompact - HR-V
compact - CR-V
midsize - Pilot
Acura
luxury compact - RDX
luxury midsize - MDX
Furthermore, supply of H/K's crossovers had been limited.
Santa Fe Sport/Sorento production is shared at Kia's plant in Georgia which also produces the Optima - a plant which the original production capacity is 300k (running 2 shifts); production up to 360-370k running a 3rd shift.
That's basically equivalent to what Honda produces of the CR-V alone in NA, w/ total NA production being 1.86B.
For H/K, NA production stood at around 730-740k. which will change once Kia's Mexico plant starts production later this year.
Sales of the Tucson, Sportage and Santa Fe will all see significant increases for 2016 due to increased production capacity.
RLX is not North American made. it is not taking factory space here. let see how many NSX sells.
Who cares where the RLX is built?
Doesn't change the fact that it is an unmitigated failure (even the K900 outsold the RLX last year).
The LS has always been built in Japan - the diff. is that the LS was a success for Toyota from the start whereas the RL/RLX has been a failure for Honda (even in its home market).
without separate dealership structure. no one will be buying them. waste of resources.
And yet, the Genesis sedan (still sold under the Hyundai nameplate) was the 3rd best selling within its segment and saw a 25% increase in sales over the 1G model despite the hike in price.
Once the Genesis brand gets its planned line-up out, expect sales to be about the same for Acura, but at a higher ATP.
As for the NSX, sales are irrelevant (beyond a niche market) and Honda would be fortunate to recoup its investment.
Honda profits lower due to that airbags recall and heavy modernization and new cars launch like NSX and HRV. It will zoom past H/K profits and revenues.
Kia will have same problem with labor like Honda has in Mexico plant. so most of your predictions are wishfull thinking.
The company’s net profit dropped 14.9 per cent year-on-year to Won6.4tn ($5.3bn) in 2015 — undershooting analysts’ consensus forecasts of Won6.35tn — on sales up 3 per cent to almost Won92tn.
Acura General Manager Jon Ikeda is on a learning curve.
He's a designer by trade, but the new duties he assumed last year have nudged him into the marketing realm as Acura tries to reintroduce consumers to the brand's performance identity and spotlight the engineering heritage that birthed the original NSX in 1990. These worlds all came together in the flashy Precision Concept that Acura showed last month at the Detroit auto show.
For the new NSX, Acura is reviving the "Precision Crafted Performance" tag line that accompanied the brand's launch in the 1980s as Honda's luxury arm. Ikeda says that setting the brand's direction by selecting the right imagery and voiceovers for its ad campaigns is 1 of the "fun" parts of his job.
Ikeda spoke with Staff Reporter Vince Bond Jr. during the Detroit auto show about Acura's marketing direction as it preps to run its 1st Super Bowl ad in 4 years.
“The Super Bowl ad will get people excited about what Acura is trying to do, where we're trying to go.” - Jon Ikeda
Q: Why is Acura returning to the Super Bowl?
A: It is the big house. It's critical. We want everybody to hear our message. It's a great venue to just hit a lot of people with who we are and what we're trying to do. Having said that, [it's about] Precision Crafted Performance.
The Super Bowl ad will get people excited about what Acura is trying to do, where we're trying to go. It's a football game, so we want the excitement to be there. We want that same level of excitement when they see the commercial and can associate that with the brand.
Why was the NSX chosen for this spot?
We wanted a campaign to push Precision Crafted Performance. It's an interesting line because back in '89 when I joined the company, this brand is 1 of the main reasons I joined. I'm a designer by trade, believe it or not, and so I've worked in design for 26 years before I came over to the sales side about 100 days ago.
The Precision Crafted Performance aspect of the brand back then, the performance side of it, was so strong. When we decided to re-establish that a bit stronger a couple years [ago] and made that dedication to do so, we used the NSX as a benchmark to express what Precision Crafted Performance means to us again. We've got a car that represents that. We want to show the world. That's exactly why we picked the NSX.
How do you feel about how "Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee" has developed?
It's a program that's been going since before my time. I'm still trying to get my head around it a little bit. It's incredible. President Obama joining a program that we're sponsoring. We're going to continue to find unique venues to attach our name with. Anything that's innovative or different or something that is in line with our character that we're trying to portray.
A good example is Sundance [Film Festival]. Sundance is something that we've been working with for a while now. It's fantastic. I love it because of the creativity that drives it with the filmmaking and all. ... Will we do this 1 thing forever? I don't know, but we're always looking for something interesting to touch, because you never know what you will find.
How did you feel when you heard Obama would be on the show?
That's incredible. It's interesting how the president of the United States would all of a sudden jump in and do things like that, which we think is so far away from what you usually think would happen. So [I'm] surprised, if anything. But then at the same time, I think it's great for him. It makes him more real.
Right now, I'm just learning the whole marketing game. Ads and sponsorships and trying to grasp the numbers that are flying and how we measure things. I'm getting schooled in a steep way.
Ludacris' revamped 1993 Acura Legend
What are some recent campaigns that have been successful for Acura?
The last 90 days, it's been more about setting up for the campaigns for 2016 than what's been happening in 2015. ... Now that we have a set direction and vision where we want to go, we want to get the right imagery, the right voiceover for our commercials, gel everything so that it's very cohesive. It's one of the fun things I get to do right now. Everything else is a lot of schooling. ...
From a social aspect, one of the most fun [campaigns] we had was [the Specialty Equipment Market Association show]. We had Ludacris. He's a big fan of our brand. ... He would sit in his car -- it was a '93 Legend -- and would come up with all of these ideas for his music. It got in an accident and was totaled, but he couldn't throw the car away because he loved this car. So we heard about the plight. We decided, you know, we know how to fix that. We should help out with fixing that.
We got together and rebuilt his '93 Legend for him. We showed up and put cooler rims on it. It was 1 of the most fun projects. It got a lot of buzz.
Obviously, digital and social, it's all different now from when I was growing up. There are so many outlets and different ways to market now. It's a very exciting feeling. We were also able to dress up and get our ILX out there.
We did a highly modified ILX like from The Fast and the Furious that Galpin [Auto Sports] did for us. We donated that to [the Ludacris] Foundation, so somebody is happy driving that car.
We wanted a campaign to push Precision Crafted Performance. It's an interesting line because back in '89 when I joined the company, this brand is 1 of the main reasons I joined. I'm a designer by trade, believe it or not, and so I've worked in design for 26 years before I came over to the sales side about 100 days ago.
The Precision Crafted Performance aspect of the brand back then, the performance side of it, was so strong. When we decided to re-establish that a bit stronger a couple years [ago] and made that dedication to do so, we used the NSX as a benchmark to express what Precision Crafted Performance means to us again. We've got a car that represents that. We want to show the world. That's exactly why we picked the NSX.
Translation: we didn't have anything else that was fun, exciting, or that exemplified "Performance"
Honda division sets new January benchmark on sales of 90,247 vehicles
All-new 2016 Honda Civic, the 2016 North American Car of the Year, defies winter weather and competition to net huge sales gain of 54.9 percent and a new January record
Acura ILX bucks market trends and unusual month to gain 24.3 percent
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported January sales of 100,497 Honda and Acura vehicles, a decrease of 1.7 percent in an unusual month as the industry endured winter weather on both coasts along with two fewer selling days and one less weekend than January 2015. Honda Division set a new January record with 90,247 units sold; Honda car sales reached 50,812 while truck sales totaled 39,435 for the month. Acura sales totaled 10,250 with sedan sales of 3,570 and trucks reaching 6,680 units in January.
Honda
Despite the rains of El Nino on the West Coast and ice and a crippling snow storm on the Eastern seaboard, along with 2 fewer selling days and 1 less weekend due to quirks in the calendar, Honda sales crested its previous January record set just last year, led by the all-new 2016 Civic Sedan and strongly supported by Accord and HR-V.
The Civic demonstrated why it is the newly crowned North American Car of the Year with sales of 26,741, leaping 54.9 percent to set a new January record.
Accord held its own despite the winter challenges with sales of 20,765 units.
HR-V posted sales of 4,177 to also defy the unusual month.
"Led by incredibly strong demand for the all-new Civic, the Honda brand persevered rain, snow and two fewer selling days to post a strong first month of the year," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "With Honda's strong cadence of new models throughout 2016 we will continue our momentum and remain positive about 2016."
Acura
With a thick blanket of winter snow covering 1 of the Acura brand's strongest markets in the Northeastern U.S., Acura sales dimmed slightly in January, but the performance of gateway model ILX defied the challenges.
Acura's gateway luxury sedan, ILX gained a substantial 24.3 percent on sales of 1,233 in January
"The blowing snow obscured the fact that Acura's momentum continued in January, with both sedan and truck sales essentially on track," said Jon Ikeda, vice president and general manager of the Acura division. "2016 will be an exciting year for Acura with the 2017 NSX on the way to help celebrate the 30th anniversary of the Acura brand."
With a thick blanket of winter snow covering 1 of the Acura brand's strongest markets in the Northeastern U.S., Acura sales dimmed slightly in January, but the performance of gateway model ILX defied the challenges.
Acura's gateway luxury sedan, ILX gained a substantial 24.3 percent on sales of 1,233 in January
No surprise here. Jan 2015 and Feb 2015 ILX sales were down (below 1,000 per month) because people held off on purchases and waited for the refreshed 2016 model that was announced in late Nov 2015 at L.A. Auto Show, and also because of limited inventory selection of remaining 2015 models.
But, but, but, if you put better tires on the RLX, and make the side mirrors more aerodynamic, it'll be faster and better! Hard to believe the RLX sells in NSX-like numbers. Sure to be a classic in 30 years at Barrett-Jackson, yes?
Originally Posted by Honda
With a thick blanket of winter snow covering 1 of the Acura brand's strongest markets in the Northeastern U.S., Acura sales dimmed slightly in January, but the performance of gateway model ILX defied the challenges.
the drill is same. gap is only 15k vehicles a month. Honda cars are higher priced. $140b revenue vs $76b revenue firm.
Hyundai, Kia see China sales plunge in Jan.
SEOUL, Feb. 3 (Yonhap) -- Hyundai Motor Co. and its smaller affiliate Kia Motors Corp. saw their car sales in China plunge over 20 percent in January as demand faltered amid worries over a slowdown in the world's No. 2 economy, industry data showed Wednesday.
Also if you're a major car maker executive you are paying very close attention to china.
It just sold more cars last year than the US market and is big growth market. High end luxury marques, IIRC, regularly sells more cars in china than other parts of the world smiply due to its sheer population size.
Honda profits lower due to that airbags recall and heavy modernization and new cars launch like NSX and HRV. It will zoom past H/K profits and revenues.
Wow!
So Honda is the only automaker that has new models in the pipeline - lol!
Also, the HR-V has been out since last May, so Honda will only get the benefit of 4 additional selling months, and as stated before, the NSX is a niche, low volume model in which Honda would be lucky to break even.
H/K, otoh, have a bevy of new models in the works, including 6 new crossovers (maybe more) and 2 pick-ups, to go along w/ increased supply of the crossovers currently in their lineup.
Last year, only 23% of Hyundai's US sales was comprised of light trucks - when for the overall industry, light trucks made up 57% of sales.
Just from increased supply of the Tucson and Santa Fe Sport, alone, the % of LTs as share of Hyundai sales should go up to 30-32%.
And once Hyundai (and Kia) adds additional crossovers and a pickup to its lineup, the % of LTs should get a lot closer to the norm for the industry (LTs made up 48.6% of Honda/Acura sales in 2015).
Kia will have same problem with labor like Honda has in Mexico plant. so most of your predictions are wishfull thinking.
That doesn't take away from the fact that Kia (and probably Hyundai) will now get the benefit of greater profitability w/ production in a low wage country like Mexico, a benefit that Honda already gets.
And shifting production of lower end models like the Rio to Mexico allows for Kia to increase production of models like the Sportage in Korea.
So even if H/K do not increase sales volume for 2016, just the increase of LTs as % of sales will increase profitability, and as stated before, the weakening of the Won will add $2 billion or so to the bottom line.
RLX is still using 6speed auto. It hasnt been modernized that much. and eSh-AWD model is very limited model.
Even w/ all the shortcuts that Honda took w/ the RLX, it still cost $$ to develop - and extremely tepid RLX sales haven't exactly been a good ROI for Honda.
Your only excuse left is limited supply of CUV of H/K group. that was your standard excuse for Sonata/Optima sales back in the days. now its CUV.
And that's reality.
Hyundai expects to raise its % of LT sales from 23% to 30-32% just on increased supply alone for 2016 - w/o the addition of any new LT models (and that's even w/ SF Sport production at Hyundai's 'Bama plant not starting til mid-year).
What do you think will happen once H/K start adding new LT models to their lineups?
And H/K are already a good bit ahead of Honda in markets like the EU, Russia, Brazil, India, China, Canada and Australia.
Once the Genesis lineup gets filled w/ its 6 planned models - wouldn't be surprised if it outsells the Acura brand worldwide (the Genesis brand w/ Kia's 3-4 model lux lineup should definitely outsell Acura worldwide).
^They're bound by program budget (obviously Honda has way more money than ferrari as a total and probably can, if no holds barred, make a hypercar that can trounce the LaFerrari...but they don't want or need to).
The new Ford GT honestly is just the old GT on steroids...500k price tag and like 300 a year being sold... Ford knows that's probably what the GT buyers want....massive power on a raw platform. No hybrid/electric gizmo.
NSX is supposed to be a new take on the next supercar with the torque vectoring up front and a driver-output/on rails handling goal (at least acura PR release claims) for a new kind of sports car (living up to the idea of the New Sportscar eXperimental).
Cannot challenge Ferrari anymore on their level simply due to cost/price of the product (and people will likely still call it a Honda) so they gotta balance product price with what's realistic while sitll giving a good all around car...in the end it ends up looking like it's not good in any one department to the laymen's eyes...but it'll be interesting to see how the new torque/handling technology comes out...it's really a first for a supercar in this price range (918 is the other one with dynamic torque vectoring as far as I know in a supercar category)
Oh and the 08/09 financial delay did not help things and the project had to restarted several times...definitely did not help....
I think with time the NSX may live up to a better opinion than what at lease Azine has been thinking so far.
^They're bound by program budget (obviously Honda has way more money than ferrari as a total and probably can, if no holds barred, make a hypercar that can trounce the LaFerrari...but they don't want or need to).
The NSX was NOT designed to go up against the likes of the LaFerrari, 918 etc.. so it shouldnt even be mentioned. Acura was using other cars like the 458, R8, GTR as a benchmark.
Originally Posted by nist7
NSX is supposed to be a new take on the next supercar with the torque vectoring up front and a driver-output/on rails handling goal (at least acura PR release claims) for a new kind of sports car (living up to the idea of the New Sportscar eXperimental).
A new take?? With what? Other cars deliver on rails handling Also, If that were the case it wouldnt come with shit-tastic all season tires.
Originally Posted by nist7
Cannot challenge Ferrari anymore on their level simply due to cost/price of the product (and people will likely still call it a Honda) so they gotta balance product price with what's realistic while sitll giving a good all around car...in the end it ends up looking like it's not good in any one department to the laymen's eyes...but it'll be interesting to see how the new torque/handling technology comes out...it's really a first for a supercar in this price range (918 is the other one with dynamic torque vectoring as far as I know in a supercar category)
Oh and the 08/09 financial delay did not help things and the project had to restarted several times...definitely did not help....
I think with time the NSX may live up to a better opinion than what at lease Azine has been thinking so far.
And this is the biggest line of BS i have read in a long time. Its nothing more than an excuse. Again, it wasnt designed to go up against the LaFerrari. So YES they do have the ability to Challenge the vehicles they benchmarked for this car. And there is more making excuses trying to use the financial issues as an excuse. Other manufacturers didnt stop or slow down, why did Acura??
I don't think nist7 said anything about the NSX is designed to challenge LaFerrari/918?
Regarding "New Take, " I think Nist7 meant the electric torque vectoring, combined with hybrid. I don't think there's a super car on the market that can claim these two things? That's assuming the likes of LaFerrari, 918, and P1 are hyper cars, not super cars. I mean, no reasonable person would seriously compare a $150-$200k car to a $900-$1.1mil car, right?
I'm not sure what BS or excuse there is? Why does it always have to be an excuse? I can't it be a legitimate reason? Is it all that surprising that a company make a misjudgment and over react? Is it fun to cancel projects after investing in billions of dollars?
Is it fun to cancel projects after investing in billions of dollars?
Judging by Acura's past history, I'm going to say yes.
And I highly doubt it costs billions to design a new car, whether it's super or not. Yeah, maybe once you need to construct the manufacturing facilities, transport costs, manufacturing contracts, etc, maybe.
The NSX was NOT designed to go up against the likes of the LaFerrari, 918 etc.. so it shouldnt even be mentioned. Acura was using other cars like the 458, R8, GTR as a benchmark.
Yup. I had made a longer post of similar discussions in the other main NSX thread on car talk. But essentially I was referring to a post I found interesting on the CorvetteForum where Tadge (chief vette engineer) what the Corvette program could've done with 100M more money...it was in response to a guy wanting to know if GM would ever do a ACR-version of the C7 (C7R) of a hardcore track-oriented street car.
So was just a fantasy thought of what if the NSX program guys could do almost whatever they wanted to lots of budget. Obviously business/executive decisions have to be made and the NSX shouldn't compete with supercars (just as NSX 1.0 couldn't/didn't compete with the F40). There would LOTS of money invested and probably low return (Honda is a for profit business) and selling a hyper-Honda/Acura-car, even if its a close competitor to say a P1, will probably not sell them more Hondas. And in the end the guys who buy cars like the P1/LeFerrari probably ain't gonna be impressed by a neighbor who buys a million dollar Honda so there's the prestige/brand image that Honda cannot get away from.
Though it would be nice to dream though.
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
A new take?? With what? Other cars deliver on rails handling Also, If that were the case it wouldnt come with shit-tastic all season tires.
I'll need to find the exact acura technical spec PR release on their website...but from what I can remember they touted the new ablation material casting technique, the multi-material frame construction...but what is more substantially "new" is incorporation of the dynamic torque vectoring with motors at each front wheel for instant response and adjustments on the go.
Obviously I am not a highly knowledgeable enthusiast or an engineer by trade, but as far as I am concerned...aside from the 918 since I know Porsche also has similar torque vectoring systems, no other current car in this price range has that system at that advanced level. Even the P1 and the LaFerrari, again as far as I know, only have a hybrid system as a direct linear power boost to the main motor and not dynamic vectoring to the front wheels.
One interesting bit from the PR release mentioned how the Acura guys looked at how they wanted to get handling/steering and they said it was designed for not only feedback at the steering wheel but they also wanted immediate/direct feed-in fro the steering to the wheels and want driver's to have as much control of the handling as possible. This may explain a different feel of the steering wheel feedback on reviewer's hands. But I again I am not nearly experience/knowledgeable enough to make further analysis but something interesting to consider.
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
And this is the biggest line of BS i have read in a long time. Its nothing more than an excuse. Again, it wasnt designed to go up against the LaFerrari. So YES they do have the ability to Challenge the vehicles they benchmarked for this car. And there is more making excuses trying to use the financial issues as an excuse. Other manufacturers didnt stop or slow down, why did Acura??
Not sure which part of it was BS in your mind but I can see and of course I am also disappointed by the sever delay.
Obviously I am not in the boardroom with Honda executives during those years and during those times when they were probably debating with the NSX program guys on funding/timeline/direction of the project so that will likely forever remain a mystery.
So I wasn't trying to defend Honda/Acura...just a possible observation and of course to the laymen looking from the outside was an "obvious" explanation.
But you're right in that we're not sure if that was a legitimate excuse. It could've easily been a head-butting of upper level executives between Honda and Acura (or between the Japan guys and the American guys) on where each side wanted to take the NSX project. Who knows. Maybe we'll see this pop up in a autobiography/auto history book years down the road.
Though my other part of the comment seems to me at least what I feel of NSX opinion...at least on Azine.
In the other thread, I see posts lamenting:
- the cost (Well GT-R is cheaper and is a supercar-like AWD with high tech supercomputers, no one would buy a 200k Acura!)
- the lack in sheer rawness/power (many saying the 458 is already old news as 488s are hitting the streets, still too tame compared to modern day supercars with the exhaust and steering feel)
- the weight (heavy weight, and the lack of enthusiasm for the new SH-AWD system)
The only area that NSX did hit it right is the looks. And it is a gorgeous car.
So I was thinking about this and felt that it seems for different groups of enthusiasts....some lament the cost, some lament the tech, weight, power, steering feel, etc. whatever...and it seems that at least on the surface...Acura tried to do everything right but then in doing that seems to have failed to REALLY excel in one area...and hence combined with the big delay....people really wanted (especially enthusiasts for Honda/Acura like us) the car to truly excel but seems to not really have that WOW factor.
In the end I guess time will tell. The main point is the SH-AWD with the wheel-motors and see how that will stand up to the test of time/court of public opinion.
Regarding "New Take, " I think Nist7 meant the electric torque vectoring, combined with hybrid. I don't think there's a super car on the market that can claim these two things? That's assuming the likes of LaFerrari, 918, and P1 are hyper cars, not super cars. I mean, no reasonable person would seriously compare a $150-$200k car to a $900-$1.1mil car, right?
I'm not sure what BS or excuse there is? Why does it always have to be an excuse? I can't it be a legitimate reason? Is it all that surprising that a company make a misjudgment and over react? Is it fun to cancel projects after investing in billions of dollars?
The idea behind NSX, as touted from the original NSX, was something new and experimental. So this NSX is Acura/Honda's take of what they see as a new/different direction.
Whether people like or agree with where the NSX has been steered towards...is obviously up for much debate/emotions.
Would be interesting to see how much money was invested in the program though. I imagine with this much delay there may have been some in-fighting within Honda/Acura about where the NSX program would be headed and the vision/design/timeline/cost of the end product.
Originally Posted by TacoBello
Judging by Acura's past history, I'm going to say yes.
And I highly doubt it costs billions to design a new car, whether it's super or not. Yeah, maybe once you need to construct the manufacturing facilities, transport costs, manufacturing contracts, etc, maybe.
But to Design a new car? I kind of doubt it.
Yeah I doubt Honda executives would allow upwards of 1,000 million dollars to be invested in the new NSX. Of course this is very rough laymen guesstimation...but I think it's a reasonable one.
If they were given billion bucks to make the NSX I think we'll see something much much different.
It would be interesting to get some insider information if anyone has first hand knowledge of total development cost on a new sports/supercar.
Judging by Acura's past history, I'm going to say yes.
And I highly doubt it costs billions to design a new car, whether it's super or not. Yeah, maybe once you need to construct the manufacturing facilities, transport costs, manufacturing contracts, etc, maybe.
But to Design a new car? I kind of doubt it.
Originally Posted by nist7
The idea behind NSX, as touted from the original NSX, was something new and experimental. So this NSX is Acura/Honda's take of what they see as a new/different direction.
Whether people like or agree with where the NSX has been steered towards...is obviously up for much debate/emotions.
Would be interesting to see how much money was invested in the program though. I imagine with this much delay there may have been some in-fighting within Honda/Acura about where the NSX program would be headed and the vision/design/timeline/cost of the end product.
Yeah I doubt Honda executives would allow upwards of 1,000 million dollars to be invested in the new NSX. Of course this is very rough laymen guesstimation...but I think it's a reasonable one.
If they were given billion bucks to make the NSX I think we'll see something much much different.
It would be interesting to get some insider information if anyone has first hand knowledge of total development cost on a new sports/supercar.
lol sorry I meant Millions not Billions...and was referring to not just the HSV010, but also the whole tier-1 project. I'd imagine to have a test mule out there means that the company already spent quite a bit of money.
lol sorry I meant Millions not Billions...and was referring to not just the HSV010, but also the whole tier-1 project. I'd imagine to have a test mule out there means that the company already spent quite a bit of money.
Ahh right...lol yeah if a car had billions invested...it better be some cancer-curing, BJ delivery-in, LaFerrar-killing, dream machine
Yeah they had to like restart the project like 2...3 times?
Yeah those were not good signs. And I suspect it may have been executives/leaders within the company that may have wanting to pull the NSX program in diff ways in terms of engineering/design/budget constraints/etc.
well.. the RSX was killed off because after the first 2 years of production, sales numbers plummeted. Big time. If I'm not mistaken, the MMC didn't help either.
I think for the price the RSX-S was selling for, people were just moving to other cars that had more potential, etc. The RSX-S was super expensive for what it was. By the end of it, Acura just killed it and never looked back.
Now with Honda/Acura coming into the world of turbocharging, that could be a different story. There could very likely be more interest from consumers again, especially since the platform would have much more potential, right from the factory.
Of course, it takes a couple years to develop a new car, so I wouldn't imagine we'd see something for a while, if they decided to go that route. I think the biggest obstacle is to get Honda/Acura actually on to that path, though.
Ah, that'd save lot of money...just make a ILX-S rather than bringing over a new-to-USA platform/car to have to service/work on...just drop in a better motor and add some wheels/styling mods to the existing car
They're probably looking/studying/debating this topic in meetings and whatnot...only time will tell now...
I think the RSX was killed because the 8G Civic Si made its debut in 2006. I don't think it had much to do with performance or anything. During its time, it was still winning most comparos. The competitors at that time were Celica GTS, Tiburon, Eclipse, and Focus ST. Most of them had about 170-180hp, while the RSX had 200-210hp, while being lighter than all, except for the Celica. The Eclipse had 210hp, but it was also 400lb heavier than the RSX.
Other than the Tiburon, the RSX-S was similar in pricing as the other cars.
The turbocharged hatchback trend didn't become popular until VW came out with the 5th gen GTI. By then Acura already got rid of the RSX.
I can tell you why the RSX failed...because for an MSRP of $20k-$23k...this is all you got...
And...it rode like a freakin Civic.
I remember wanting one when I was looking to replace my 89 Integra. I test drove it and was like "what a piece of junk". I couldnt believe the price they were asking with literally no features. My 89 Integra had literally about the same interior features. It was once again an example of Acura not having the experience on how to properly price an entry level luxury sports car with the right feature sets.
The real kicker though? For $25k I was able to buy a used 2006 3G TL NAV (6-speed manual) in immaculate shape with only 33k miles and we all know what a great interior and features it had.
Overpriced and Featureless. That's why the RSX failed.
Last edited by holografique; 02-13-2016 at 08:50 AM.
I think the RSX was killed because the 8G Civic Si made its debut in 2006. I don't think it had much to do with performance or anything. During its time, it was still winning most comparos. The competitors at that time were Celica GTS, Tiburon, Eclipse, and Focus ST. Most of them had about 170-180hp, while the RSX had 200-210hp, while being lighter than all, except for the Celica. The Eclipse had 210hp, but it was also 400lb heavier than the RSX.
Other than the Tiburon, the RSX-S was similar in pricing as the other cars.
The turbocharged hatchback trend didn't become popular until VW came out with the 5th gen GTI. By then Acura already got rid of the RSX.
Well it was likely a combined reason. RSX sales tanked like crazy after 2004. People were also complaining about the civic SiR only having 160hp. So it wouldn't make sense to bump the civic to 200hp and have the RSX sit at 200hp.
Keep in kind that Toyota killed the celica also, as it's sales tanked after the first couple years. I'm guessing people just didn't want to pay that much money for such sporty cars anymore. They were cool when new, but once the initial set of people bought them, the desire to. Like holographique said, you would pay a lot of money, but besides for the engine and transmission, you weren't getting a lot of features.
So now I wonder- I imagine it is fairly expensive to build a reliable, high compression, high revving, naturally aspirated engine that would put out 100HP/L of displacement (or more). But I wonder if it would be more economical these days to build a reliable, low compression, average revving engine with a turbo and intercooler. Even if horsepower is less, the torque would be way higher simply due to the forced induction. Maybe these cars can be sold for a few thousand less. Ultimately, they were geared towards young buyers. Not many young buyers can afford to drop 25-28k.
Yea, I don't think Honda really screwed up the RSX.....I think most of the cars in that segment weren't doing so well. My tenant still has his 2002 RSX which he bought almost 10 years ago. He's now getting close to 300,000km on it, and has been trouble-free for the most part. The engine doesn't even burn a drop of oil. There's also no squeaks and rattles that can be found Honda/Acura models made in the US. The Japanese built RSX seems to be pretty well built.
And I gotta say, beige/tan interior just doesn't work with the RSX......black interior with the silver trims looks a whole lot better IMO.
In its full final production year, Acura still sold 20000 units - not very good. However, if you compare that to the BR-Z+FR-S combo, that's still a lot better.
I'd think it's cheaper going with the turbo route.
I agree cheaper going turbo route.... I just miss the Honda's of the 90's.... there are a few models I would LOVE to see come back... but back then Honda was competing with itself with so many cars in the same segment.... (civic, del sol, prelude, integra, crx)
I would love to see the prelude come back.... but that's just me...
The last car I owned was a 2000 Honda Prelude. At the time, it was one of the best-handling, most fun, and most refined sporty coupes you could buy for around $25,000. I have nothing but fond memories of that car — the high-revving 2.2-liter, 200-hp VTEC I-4 engine that flipped an F1 switch at 5000 rpm; the beautifully tuned control-arm suspension that soaked up bumps and swallowed curves with ease; and the heavenly five-speed manual gearbox that delighted the senses with every flick of the wrist. When Honda killed the Prelude after the 2001 model year, following five generations that began life in 1979, it was a sad day for me.
Since then, I’ve been eagerly waiting for Honda to resurrect the Prelude nameplate, to no avail. Coupes can be a tough sell in the U.S. — Honda sold only 9692 Preludes in the final year–so devoting development and marketing costs to a low-volume car that brings in little profit just doesn’t make business sense. I get it.
Sentimentally, though, I can’t help but dream of a modern Prelude, one boasting a screaming VTEC four, a sensational six-speed, and a track-bred suspension. Sounds sweet, right? But when the fantasy fades and reality sets in, it’s best to accept and enjoy what actually exists.
Enter the 2013 Honda Accord Coupe. Although it’s not terribly exciting to look at, it offers what made the Prelude great: a high-revving VTEC four and a rewarding chassis and gearbox. Don’t believe me? At the test track, our $25,815 EX, weighing 3201 pounds and boasting a 185-hp, 2.4-liter engine matched to a sublime six-speed manual, zipped from 0 to 60 mph in 6.6 seconds and through the quarter mile in 15.1 at 92.6 mph. That’s almost BRZ quick. In terms of handling and braking, the Accord hung on for 0.88 g worth of lateral grip and halted from 60 to 0 in 121 feet, both of which are better than the last GTI we tested.
But let’s compare it with the Prelude. Digging through the Motor Trend archives, I found a September 1997 shootout between the Prelude Type SH (the hot-handling one with the fancy active torque vectoring system) and the Acura Integra Type R. The 3050-pound Prelude, a first-year fifth-gen with 195 hp (a 5-hp bump came for 1999), recorded the following numbers: 0-60 in 7.2 seconds, the quarter in 15.6 at 90.5 mph, lateral grip of 0.88 g, and 60-0 braking of 133 feet. Advantage: Accord Coupe. Even more interesting is how the Accord stacked up against the Type R, which put down these stats: 0-60 in 6.6, the quarter in 15.1 at 93.8, lateral acceleration of 0.93, and 60-0 braking in 119 — no quicker down a dragstrip than the Accord and just a bit better stopping and around the skidpad.
So while I still count Preludes when my head hits the pillow, Honda has given me a backup dream machine that can hang with a Type R and a GTI. Suffice it to say, I never imagined an Accord with the same scope as those two hot hatches. Dreaming’s great, but sometimes you just have to open your eyes.
01-30-2016, 09:12 AM
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Jan 2016
Hard to believe the RLX sells in NSX-like numbers. Sure to be a classic in 30 years at Barrett-Jackson, yes? 
Also, If that were the case it wouldnt come with shit-tastic all season tires. 
