Acura: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
12-04-2015, 03:40 PM
#3321
Team Owner
You criticize Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Kia, etc. for having too many models in their line up, yet not a single one of these companies worries. Yup, those same companies with thousands of incredibly smart people working for them, all seem to be trending in the same direction and they are all doing well. The only thing going to slow VW/Audi down is their emissions scandal, not having too many models.
You act like these companies were just formed yesterday and no one has any idea what they are doing in them. And yet you praise Acura, who still believes the "less is more" tactic is the way to go and look how well that has worked out for them. The only other brand that's doing the same is Lincoln, which I'm pretty sure Ford considered axing them in the past. The only reason these companies don't have more models is because they don't have the development money and/or brand power anymore to develop or sell more models.
12-04-2015, 04:15 PM
#3323
Team Owner
Honda/Acura is afraid to break the 300hp barrier on any of its FWD cars. It's not that they can't. I think they realize the futility of it. The only way we will see 300+ hp is if the car has AWD.
Nissan easily pulled over 300hp with their 3.7L engines, and I believe even with the later 3.5L. We all know Honda can do the same. But they won't. They refuse. They don't think you need it.
Nissan easily pulled over 300hp with their 3.7L engines, and I believe even with the later 3.5L. We all know Honda can do the same. But they won't. They refuse. They don't think you need it.
12-04-2015, 05:01 PM
#3324
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Well there's the Civic Type R that makes 306hp with FWD :P
I actually think the J series, in NA form, to remain reliable, is pretty much at its limit. Theoretically, Honda can still make a J37 with DI, and may be it will be rated at 328hp, if it keeps the same hp/L ratio as the J35 with DI.
Mind you though, the current 370Z's 3.7L engine already makes 350hp without DI. Assuming Honda does make a J37 DI, Nissan can theoretically add DI to its 3.7L engine too. With DOHC, the VQ is easier to rev (hence more power). The J series can be made to rev high with SOHC, but that would cost $$ and not as reliable.
On another note, Honda engineers said with boost, the J series can make 400hp reliably. This is based on what Jeff from TOV heard during a FAQ session in some product launch event a while back. But I have no idea how much modifications would be needed. It might still be a J series, but it's probably gonna be a heavily altered one...
I actually think the J series, in NA form, to remain reliable, is pretty much at its limit. Theoretically, Honda can still make a J37 with DI, and may be it will be rated at 328hp, if it keeps the same hp/L ratio as the J35 with DI.
Mind you though, the current 370Z's 3.7L engine already makes 350hp without DI. Assuming Honda does make a J37 DI, Nissan can theoretically add DI to its 3.7L engine too. With DOHC, the VQ is easier to rev (hence more power). The J series can be made to rev high with SOHC, but that would cost $$ and not as reliable.
On another note, Honda engineers said with boost, the J series can make 400hp reliably. This is based on what Jeff from TOV heard during a FAQ session in some product launch event a while back. But I have no idea how much modifications would be needed. It might still be a J series, but it's probably gonna be a heavily altered one...
12-04-2015, 07:01 PM
#3325
Team Owner
Well there's the Civic Type R that makes 306hp with FWD :P
I actually think the J series, in NA form, to remain reliable, is pretty much at its limit. Theoretically, Honda can still make a J37 with DI, and may be it will be rated at 328hp, if it keeps the same hp/L ratio as the J35 with DI.
Mind you though, the current 370Z's 3.7L engine already makes 350hp without DI. Assuming Honda does make a J37 DI, Nissan can theoretically add DI to its 3.7L engine too. With DOHC, the VQ is easier to rev (hence more power). The J series can be made to rev high with SOHC, but that would cost $$ and not as reliable.
On another note, Honda engineers said with boost, the J series can make 400hp reliably. This is based on what Jeff from TOV heard during a FAQ session in some product launch event a while back. But I have no idea how much modifications would be needed. It might still be a J series, but it's probably gonna be a heavily altered one...
I actually think the J series, in NA form, to remain reliable, is pretty much at its limit. Theoretically, Honda can still make a J37 with DI, and may be it will be rated at 328hp, if it keeps the same hp/L ratio as the J35 with DI.
Mind you though, the current 370Z's 3.7L engine already makes 350hp without DI. Assuming Honda does make a J37 DI, Nissan can theoretically add DI to its 3.7L engine too. With DOHC, the VQ is easier to rev (hence more power). The J series can be made to rev high with SOHC, but that would cost $$ and not as reliable.
On another note, Honda engineers said with boost, the J series can make 400hp reliably. This is based on what Jeff from TOV heard during a FAQ session in some product launch event a while back. But I have no idea how much modifications would be needed. It might still be a J series, but it's probably gonna be a heavily altered one...
12-04-2015, 07:17 PM
#3326
You criticize Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Kia, etc. for having too many models in their line up, yet not a single one of these companies worries. Yup, those same companies with thousands of incredibly smart people working for them, all seem to be trending in the same direction and they are all doing well. The only thing going to slow VW/Audi down is their emissions scandal, not having too many models.
While I have long stated that Audi being FWD-based has been a factor in them languishing behind MB and Audi (esp. at the higher end of the luxury sedan market), they, nonetheless, have made gains recently.
At one time Lexus handily outsold Audi at the mid-range+ luxury market for sedans with the GS and LS, but now Audi sells more w/ the A6, A7 and A8.
In 2014, Audi sold 37,978 of the A6, A7 and A8 (Lexus sold 30,757 of the GS and LS).
YTD, Audi has sold 31,840.
In comparison, Acura sold a measly 3,413 of the RLX in 2014 and an embarrassingly bad 2,036 YTD.
As for H/K - they don't have too many sedans (the 2 compete against each other) as they only have sedans in the established categories (could use more crossovers).
Mainstream
subcompact - Accent - Rio
compact - Elantra - Forte
midsize - Sonata - Optima
full-size - Azera - Cadenza
Luxury
compact - G70
midsize - G80 (Genesis) - GT
full-size - G90 (Equus) - K900
Don't have 4-door coupes, fastbacks and won't have a subcompact luxury sedan (with Kia not having a luxury compact).
The new Conti should do well for Lincoln and w/ the revised grill and power upgrade, the MKZ should see a boost, altho probably won't a total rejuvenation of the MKZ until its replacement.
Well, tough luck. Why Honda/Acura doesn't introduce more vehicles and more variations to capture more customers and more market share, then ?
If someone beat you in sales, you are beaten. It's this plain and simple.
Excuses don't help making more vehicle sales, only concrete actions to introduce more vehicles/variations will.
If someone beat you in sales, you are beaten. It's this plain and simple.
Excuses don't help making more vehicle sales, only concrete actions to introduce more vehicles/variations will.
That's why Infiniti hadn't come out w/ a real performance line yet (and Lexus being slow to toll theirs, and even then, behind the competition in the power-race) and is only again expanding their lineup now with cheaper FWD models using major components supplied by MB (the new Infinti flagship looks promising if it adheres to the design of the concept).
Same reason why Lexus has been slow on the LS replacement and why they haven't done a 4-door coupe competitor for the 6 Series GC, the CLS and A7, but instead, did the NX.
Also the reason why both Lincoln and Acura abandoned their plans for RWD + V8.
Last edited by YEH; 12-04-2015 at 07:31 PM.
12-04-2015, 10:02 PM
#3327
6G TLX-S
Well there's the Civic Type R that makes 306hp with FWD :P
I actually think the J series, in NA form, to remain reliable, is pretty much at its limit. Theoretically, Honda can still make a J37 with DI, and may be it will be rated at 328hp, if it keeps the same hp/L ratio as the J35 with DI.
Mind you though, the current 370Z's 3.7L engine already makes 350hp without DI. Assuming Honda does make a J37 DI, Nissan can theoretically add DI to its 3.7L engine too. With DOHC, the VQ is easier to rev (hence more power). The J series can be made to rev high with SOHC, but that would cost $$ and not as reliable.
On another note, Honda engineers said with boost, the J series can make 400hp reliably. This is based on what Jeff from TOV heard during a FAQ session in some product launch event a while back. But I have no idea how much modifications would be needed. It might still be a J series, but it's probably gonna be a heavily altered one...
I actually think the J series, in NA form, to remain reliable, is pretty much at its limit. Theoretically, Honda can still make a J37 with DI, and may be it will be rated at 328hp, if it keeps the same hp/L ratio as the J35 with DI.
Mind you though, the current 370Z's 3.7L engine already makes 350hp without DI. Assuming Honda does make a J37 DI, Nissan can theoretically add DI to its 3.7L engine too. With DOHC, the VQ is easier to rev (hence more power). The J series can be made to rev high with SOHC, but that would cost $$ and not as reliable.
On another note, Honda engineers said with boost, the J series can make 400hp reliably. This is based on what Jeff from TOV heard during a FAQ session in some product launch event a while back. But I have no idea how much modifications would be needed. It might still be a J series, but it's probably gonna be a heavily altered one...
Just wonder if the Nissan VQ 3.7-V6 engine is built more RELIABLE and more powerful than the Honda one.
12-05-2015, 04:24 AM
#3328
See, the problem is that Honda/Acura thinks just like you do. They're very closed minded and unwilling to accept there are better and smarter ways of doing things.
You criticize Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Kia, etc. for having too many models in their line up, yet not a single one of these companies worries. Yup, those same companies with thousands of incredibly smart people working for them, all seem to be trending in the same direction and they are all doing well. The only thing going to slow VW/Audi down is their emissions scandal, not having too many models.
You act like these companies were just formed yesterday and no one has any idea what they are doing in them. And yet you praise Acura, who still believes the "less is more" tactic is the way to go and look how well that has worked out for them. The only other brand that's doing the same is Lincoln, which I'm pretty sure Ford considered axing them in the past. The only reason these companies don't have more models is because they don't have the development money and/or brand power anymore to develop or sell more models.
You criticize Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Kia, etc. for having too many models in their line up, yet not a single one of these companies worries. Yup, those same companies with thousands of incredibly smart people working for them, all seem to be trending in the same direction and they are all doing well. The only thing going to slow VW/Audi down is their emissions scandal, not having too many models.
You act like these companies were just formed yesterday and no one has any idea what they are doing in them. And yet you praise Acura, who still believes the "less is more" tactic is the way to go and look how well that has worked out for them. The only other brand that's doing the same is Lincoln, which I'm pretty sure Ford considered axing them in the past. The only reason these companies don't have more models is because they don't have the development money and/or brand power anymore to develop or sell more models.
Hyundai/Kia has to give 10 years warranties and much more incentives and worse resale value.
12-05-2015, 04:26 AM
#3329
He's just one of those trolls who just p*sses on competitors for stupid and often inaccurate reasons.
While I have long stated that Audi being FWD-based has been a factor in them languishing behind MB and Audi (esp. at the higher end of the luxury sedan market), they, nonetheless, have made gains recently.
At one time Lexus handily outsold Audi at the mid-range+ luxury market for sedans with the GS and LS, but now Audi sells more w/ the A6, A7 and A8.
In 2014, Audi sold 37,978 of the A6, A7 and A8 (Lexus sold 30,757 of the GS and LS).
YTD, Audi has sold 31,840.
In comparison, Acura sold a measly 3,413 of the RLX in 2014 and an embarrassingly bad 2,036 YTD.
As for H/K - they don't have too many sedans (the 2 compete against each other) as they only have sedans in the established categories (could use more crossovers).
Mainstream
subcompact - Accent - Rio
compact - Elantra - Forte
midsize - Sonata - Optima
full-size - Azera - Cadenza
Luxury
compact - G70
midsize - G80 (Genesis) - GT
full-size - G90 (Equus) - K900
Don't have 4-door coupes, fastbacks and won't have a subcompact luxury sedan (with Kia not having a luxury compact).
The new Conti should do well for Lincoln and w/ the revised grill and power upgrade, the MKZ should see a boost, altho probably won't a total rejuvenation of the MKZ until its replacement.
Automakers don't do variations (esp. high performance ones), much less expand the lineup, if they don't think they will have a good chance of recouping the investment.
That's why Infiniti hadn't come out w/ a real performance line yet (and Lexus being slow to toll theirs, and even then, behind the competition in the power-race) and is only again expanding their lineup now with cheaper FWD models using major components supplied by MB (the new Infinti flagship looks promising if it adheres to the design of the concept).
Same reason why Lexus has been slow on the LS replacement and why they haven't done a 4-door coupe competitor for the 6 Series GC, the CLS and A7, but instead, did the NX.
Also the reason why both Lincoln and Acura abandoned their plans for RWD + V8.
While I have long stated that Audi being FWD-based has been a factor in them languishing behind MB and Audi (esp. at the higher end of the luxury sedan market), they, nonetheless, have made gains recently.
At one time Lexus handily outsold Audi at the mid-range+ luxury market for sedans with the GS and LS, but now Audi sells more w/ the A6, A7 and A8.
In 2014, Audi sold 37,978 of the A6, A7 and A8 (Lexus sold 30,757 of the GS and LS).
YTD, Audi has sold 31,840.
In comparison, Acura sold a measly 3,413 of the RLX in 2014 and an embarrassingly bad 2,036 YTD.
As for H/K - they don't have too many sedans (the 2 compete against each other) as they only have sedans in the established categories (could use more crossovers).
Mainstream
subcompact - Accent - Rio
compact - Elantra - Forte
midsize - Sonata - Optima
full-size - Azera - Cadenza
Luxury
compact - G70
midsize - G80 (Genesis) - GT
full-size - G90 (Equus) - K900
Don't have 4-door coupes, fastbacks and won't have a subcompact luxury sedan (with Kia not having a luxury compact).
The new Conti should do well for Lincoln and w/ the revised grill and power upgrade, the MKZ should see a boost, altho probably won't a total rejuvenation of the MKZ until its replacement.
Automakers don't do variations (esp. high performance ones), much less expand the lineup, if they don't think they will have a good chance of recouping the investment.
That's why Infiniti hadn't come out w/ a real performance line yet (and Lexus being slow to toll theirs, and even then, behind the competition in the power-race) and is only again expanding their lineup now with cheaper FWD models using major components supplied by MB (the new Infinti flagship looks promising if it adheres to the design of the concept).
Same reason why Lexus has been slow on the LS replacement and why they haven't done a 4-door coupe competitor for the 6 Series GC, the CLS and A7, but instead, did the NX.
Also the reason why both Lincoln and Acura abandoned their plans for RWD + V8.
12-05-2015, 01:50 PM
#3330
Honda are rising much faster than market.
Honda has 25% rise in UK
UK car market begins to grow again | Auto Express
Honda has 32% rise in China.
Automobiles: Chinese sales surge for Toyota, Honda in November- Nikkei Asian Review
Honda has 25% rise in UK
UK car market begins to grow again | Auto Express
Honda has 32% rise in China.
Automobiles: Chinese sales surge for Toyota, Honda in November- Nikkei Asian Review
12-05-2015, 01:55 PM
#3331
Honda/Acura is afraid to break the 300hp barrier on any of its FWD cars. It's not that they can't. I think they realize the futility of it. The only way we will see 300+ hp is if the car has AWD.
Nissan easily pulled over 300hp with their 3.7L engines, and I believe even with the later 3.5L. We all know Honda can do the same. But they won't. They refuse. They don't think you need it.
Nissan easily pulled over 300hp with their 3.7L engines, and I believe even with the later 3.5L. We all know Honda can do the same. But they won't. They refuse. They don't think you need it.
By the Numbers - Pilot vs. Highlander [Video] | TFLCar.com: Automotive News, Views and Reviews
12-05-2015, 04:23 PM
#3332
Team Owner
I give up with this troll. 
12-05-2015, 04:24 PM
#3333
6G TLX-S
Honda are rising much faster than market.
Honda has 25% rise in UK
UK car market begins to grow again | Auto Express
Honda has 32% rise in China.
Automobiles: Chinese sales surge for Toyota, Honda in November- Nikkei Asian Review
Honda has 25% rise in UK
UK car market begins to grow again | Auto Express
Honda has 32% rise in China.
Automobiles: Chinese sales surge for Toyota, Honda in November- Nikkei Asian Review
12-05-2015, 04:31 PM
#3334
Team Owner
I'm not sure which one of his statements is more laughable.
First, isn't the same V8 in the Genesis now in the K900? Either way, I'm pretty sure H/K wouldn't enter a part of the market and continue on in that market if it didn't make sense. The Genesis has been around for awhile now. It apparently is meeting their expectations, otherwise the K900 would never have come to fruition. It's not like H/K are just pulling straws here, hoping for a miracle. They have shareholders to answer to, like all car companies, and they strive to make profit.
Second, I have a feeling the NSX and RLX will have very very little in common. Yes, they both use electric motors, but Troll Extraordinaire claims Acura used the same parts bin for both cars. I highly doubt that. They have different transmissions, different engines, 1 electric motor vs 3 electric motors, etc, etc.
12-05-2015, 05:59 PM
#3335
Honda Pilot/HRV are each worth 20,000 vehicles a month. HRV still have old engine.
Honda Mexico plant is not producing optimum and Supplies from Japan is for rest of Asia. it will be while before the mix is right. Next year they have Ridgeline/Odysey. H/K group is just adding more vehicles to the line up.
NSX is so late that its tech will be used for next generation RLX. Acura should introduce 2 more SUVs. One to small to replace ILX and one $100,00K SUV with NSX tech.
12-05-2015, 06:08 PM
#3336
Safety Car
Honda/Acura is afraid to break the 300hp barrier on any of its FWD cars. It's not that they can't. I think they realize the futility of it. The only way we will see 300+ hp is if the car has AWD.
Nissan easily pulled over 300hp with their 3.7L engines, and I believe even with the later 3.5L. We all know Honda can do the same. But they won't. They refuse. They don't think you need it.
Nissan easily pulled over 300hp with their 3.7L engines, and I believe even with the later 3.5L. We all know Honda can do the same. But they won't. They refuse. They don't think you need it.
Is it the limits of high powered FWD? (torque steer, etc.)
Because as you have mentioned and we all know Toyota and Nissan and of course Germany competitors like Audi/BMW/MB all have RWD and RWD-biased AWD platforms that can really pack a nice HP punch. The G-series as you said easily pulled over 300hp.
I guess TLX sales are up this year and is improving from the 4G TLs...which sold terribly compared to the 3G. And we'll see.
But honestly looking at my thread in the 3G section.....many people are switching to higher powered RWD/AWD platforms once they move on from their TL (just look at the general car section, lots of Lexus/Audi/BMW/etc.) Actually even domestics are offering great options: Charger, CTS, etc.
Of course Acura/Honda is a giant corporation and I assume they have business guys who knows what they're doing and for some reason they are NOT developing a true ground up RWD-higher hp platform with their sedans...unlike all other luxury marques.
If Acura made a much more direct G37/GS/S4/E55/535i competitor I'd be all over that!
So in the end the question is why do they not have a similar platform to compete with the other guys....?
12-05-2015, 10:05 PM
#3337
6G TLX-S
This is what baffles me.
Is it the limits of high powered FWD? (torque steer, etc.)
Because as you have mentioned and we all know Toyota and Nissan and of course Germany competitors like Audi/BMW/MB all have RWD and RWD-biased AWD platforms that can really pack a nice HP punch. The G-series as you said easily pulled over 300hp.
.....
Is it the limits of high powered FWD? (torque steer, etc.)
Because as you have mentioned and we all know Toyota and Nissan and of course Germany competitors like Audi/BMW/MB all have RWD and RWD-biased AWD platforms that can really pack a nice HP punch. The G-series as you said easily pulled over 300hp.
.....
Meanwhile, RWD vehicles can handle as much hp as you can throw at it and still maintain excellent handling dynamics, such as the 727hp RWD McLaren P1, 1341hp RWD Koenigsegg One, etc.
12-06-2015, 10:37 AM
#3338
AZ Community Team
Definitely. Because the front wheels of a FWD vehicle has to do double the duty of steering and driving actions, while the rear wheels are doing almost nothing; it is impossible for a FWD vehicle to handle lots of engine power while still maintaining good vehicle handling dynamics, even for Honda, with which the current limit is ~310hp for the FWD RLX sedan.
Meanwhile, RWD vehicles can handle as much hp as you can throw at it and still maintain excellent handling dynamics, such as the 727hp RWD McLaren P1, 1341hp RWD Koenigsegg One, etc.
Meanwhile, RWD vehicles can handle as much hp as you can throw at it and still maintain excellent handling dynamics, such as the 727hp RWD McLaren P1, 1341hp RWD Koenigsegg One, etc.
In terms of "RWD vehicles can handle as much hp as you can throw at it and still maintain excellent handling dynamics", there's this to consider
12-06-2015, 04:54 PM
#3339
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
If the same 660hp is put onto a FWD vehicle, the resulting uncontrollable FWD monster would have crashed into things many times over, a lot sooner than the 660hp RWD GT500.
If the same 660hp is put onto a FWD vehicle, the resulting uncontrollable FWD monster would have crashed into things many times over, a lot sooner than the 660hp RWD GT500.
12-06-2015, 05:41 PM
#3340
I should clarify my statement regarding H/K. Troll Extraordinaire has stated in the past that H/K shouldn't have a V8 in the Genesis, because it has too little use and it costs H/K too much to produce such small volumes... but then he goes on to say that the RLX is supreme to everything because it uses the same parts as the NSX does for it's electric system.
I'm not sure which one of his statements is more laughable.
First, isn't the same V8 in the Genesis now in the K900? Either way, I'm pretty sure H/K wouldn't enter a part of the market and continue on in that market if it didn't make sense. The Genesis has been around for awhile now. It apparently is meeting their expectations, otherwise the K900 would never have come to fruition. It's not like H/K are just pulling straws here, hoping for a miracle. They have shareholders to answer to, like all car companies, and they strive to make profit.
Second, I have a feeling the NSX and RLX will have very very little in common. Yes, they both use electric motors, but Troll Extraordinaire claims Acura used the same parts bin for both cars. I highly doubt that. They have different transmissions, different engines, 1 electric motor vs 3 electric motors, etc, etc.
I'm not sure which one of his statements is more laughable.
First, isn't the same V8 in the Genesis now in the K900? Either way, I'm pretty sure H/K wouldn't enter a part of the market and continue on in that market if it didn't make sense. The Genesis has been around for awhile now. It apparently is meeting their expectations, otherwise the K900 would never have come to fruition. It's not like H/K are just pulling straws here, hoping for a miracle. They have shareholders to answer to, like all car companies, and they strive to make profit.
Second, I have a feeling the NSX and RLX will have very very little in common. Yes, they both use electric motors, but Troll Extraordinaire claims Acura used the same parts bin for both cars. I highly doubt that. They have different transmissions, different engines, 1 electric motor vs 3 electric motors, etc, etc.
Also, the Tau V8 is used in the Equus, Genesis, K900 and the Mohave SUV (aka Borrego), so it's not like Hyundai hasn't been able to recoup its cost (btw, the Genesis G90/EQ900 got a whopping 4,342 pre-orders within 24 hours in Korea - which is about double what the RLX will sell in the States this year).
Honda/Acura has the more correct approach. the less models. the better is dealer service and less people need to be trained to maintain them. less spare replacement parts.
Hyundai/Kia has to give 10 years warranties and much more incentives and worse resale value.
Hyundai/Kia has to give 10 years warranties and much more incentives and worse resale value.
Hyundai's incentive $$ for Nov. was right in line w/ Honda's and there have been months when it has been lower.
Also as for better dealer service, Hyundai has usually scored better than Honda in JD Power's CSI survey.
You forgot that Lexus is selling 2k GX460 a month. This V8 vehicle. Lexus is very strong in SUV. by over producing Sedans in new brand Hyundi is going to make a mistake.
But Hyundai has at least 1 new CUV on the way, Kia has 2, as does the Genesis brand.
As for the GX, it started selling better when it got a refresh and Lexus cut the price.
Still nothing compared to what GM is doing in Escalade and Yukon sales.
Lexus is making a mistake in not going ahead and producing a 3-row version of the RX or an entirely new 3-row CUV (they may yet change their mind again).
Honda are rising much faster than market.
For the 1st 10 months of the year, H/K has sold 702,035 vehicles in the EU market (6.1% marketshare).
Honda sold 105,645 for a 0.9% marketshare.
So H/K sell 7x what Honda does in the EU.
And not only that, Honda is down about 3% up thru Oct., whereas H/K are up about 9% (and that's w/o introducing a new model, like what Honda had done w/ the HR-V, which is the reason Honda sales are up in the UK recently).
http://www.acea.be/uploads/press_rel...1510_FINAL.pdf
So Honda is down for the year in both the EU and the US - the 2 largest developed markets.
Now, Honda has done very well w/ its core lineup and the new Civic looks like a winner (and the return of Honda to its prior ways), but Honda has failed miserably in expanding its lineup (the HR-V is one of the exceptions, but it pretty much is in a new core segment) and at the higher end of luxury sales.
Last edited by YEH; 12-06-2015 at 05:52 PM.
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12-06-2015, 06:21 PM
#3341
As I stated before, the decision-makers at H/K made the mistake of not expanding their CUV lineup sooner, much less increasing the production capacity of those they have.
But Hyundai has at least 1 new CUV on the way, Kia has 2, as does the Genesis brand.
As for the GX, it started selling better when it got a refresh and Lexus cut the price.
Still nothing compared to what GM is doing in Escalade and Yukon sales.
Lexus is making a mistake in not going ahead and producing a 3-row version of the RX or an entirely new 3-row CUV (they may yet change their mind again).
But Hyundai has at least 1 new CUV on the way, Kia has 2, as does the Genesis brand.
As for the GX, it started selling better when it got a refresh and Lexus cut the price.
Still nothing compared to what GM is doing in Escalade and Yukon sales.
Lexus is making a mistake in not going ahead and producing a 3-row version of the RX or an entirely new 3-row CUV (they may yet change their mind again).
As usual, misleading due to be overly selective.
For the 1st 10 months of the year, H/K has sold 702,035 vehicles in the EU market (6.1% marketshare).
Honda sold 105,645 for a 0.9% marketshare.
So H/K sell 7x what Honda does in the EU.
For the 1st 10 months of the year, H/K has sold 702,035 vehicles in the EU market (6.1% marketshare).
Honda sold 105,645 for a 0.9% marketshare.
So H/K sell 7x what Honda does in the EU.
So Honda is down for the year in both the EU and the US - the 2 largest developed markets.
Now, Honda has done very well w/ its core lineup and the new Civic looks like a winner (and the return of Honda to its prior ways), but Honda has failed miserably in expanding its lineup (the HR-V is one of the exceptions, but it pretty much is in a new core segment) and at the higher end of luxury sales.
Now, Honda has done very well w/ its core lineup and the new Civic looks like a winner (and the return of Honda to its prior ways), but Honda has failed miserably in expanding its lineup (the HR-V is one of the exceptions, but it pretty much is in a new core segment) and at the higher end of luxury sales.
New 2016 Hyundai Equus For Sale in San Jose CA | VIN: KMHGH4JHXGU101693
12-06-2015, 08:45 PM
#3342
you are writting crap. so many of Hyundai executives fired. Profits are at bottom. sales revenue of H/K group lower than Honda. so how you even claim incentives are lower.
Such as this gem...
because there was person on this board who will post every month the great Hyundai-Kia sales. and will call it a monthly drill. I told him that time Hyundai is stagnating and this Equus-Genesis are completely wasted efforts. H-K group simply don't have global Landcruiser/Patrol kind of SUV to justifiy V8.
H/K sales growth for 2015 in the US ahead of the industry pace - check.
H/K sales growth in the EU ahead of the industry pace - check.
And that's w/ no new additions to their lineup, unlike Honda w/ the HR-V.
H/K sales growth in the BRIM markets ahead of the industry pace - check.
Industry data show Hyundai's combined sales in Brazil, Russia, India and Mexico at almost 80,500 units in October, the first time the Korean automaker has sold more than 80,000 there in a single month.
The figures also give Hyundai a record 11.5 percent market share in the region.
The figures also give Hyundai a record 11.5 percent market share in the region.
As for Honda...
US - no
EU - no
BRIM - no
The one underperforming market has been China, but even there, H/K sales have recovered.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchin...t_22610537.htm
show me that cut price inventory of Lexus GX. each one is selling above $60k. infact they even sold 500 of $90k LX570 last month.
Facelifted Lexus GX 460 gets price cut for 2014 | Autoweek
2014 Lexus GX460 Receives $4700 Price Cut - Motor Trend
2014 Lexus GX 460 Gets $4,710 Price Cut | Edmunds.com
2014 Lexus GX 460 Gets Price Cut to $49,995 » AutoGuide.com News
And so on and so on...
And 500 monthly sales of the LX - impressive; not...
In addition to the top trim of the Escalade, Cadillac sells 1,300 of the ESV a month.
And that 500 was an anomaly due to Lexus's yearly promotion - usually sells about 200/month for the LX.
Honda vehicles are much higher prices than low price H/K. sales turn around happen in October.
Once H/K get better supply of the Tucson and the new Sportage and get the new crossover models as well as the new Genesis models and the Kia GT, fully expect H/K's ATP to be higher than that for H/A.
H/K sales in the US and the EU has outpaced the overall industry growth and that's w/o any new additions to their lineup.
What do you think their growth will be in the coming years when they add a whole slew of new models to their respective lineups (many of them being crossovers?).
Last edited by YEH; 12-06-2015 at 08:57 PM.
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TacoBello (12-07-2015)
12-06-2015, 10:05 PM
#3343
I know there is basic trim of GX460 but no dealer carries that trim. so it is just fill in the blanks. Toyota/Lexus are the largest seller in the world of V8 vehicles.
They also sold 400 V8 Landcruiser which is nearly identical price as LX570.
They also sold 1000 Toyota Sequoia. this also V8.
You are trying to question a company that will have $25b of profits.
Honda axed Insight. so now it repalce with HRV. both Insight and HRV are based on Honda fit platform. they are not adding anything.
Only H/K group add vehicles to boost sales.
why you think US cost rise. You have nearly quarter profit decline.
Hyundai Net Profit Falls 25% on Slow China Demand - WSJ
Hyundai Net Profit Falls 25% on Slow China Demand
Sales in China slump, U.S. marketing costs rise
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...er-sales-slump
Hyundai, Kia replace China executives after sales slump
It is not the ATP but what kind of content you get at that price. H/K group give you more content so there profits are low. If profits are low. they cant afford the deep R&D which only Honda can afford.
They also sold 400 V8 Landcruiser which is nearly identical price as LX570.
They also sold 1000 Toyota Sequoia. this also V8.
You are trying to question a company that will have $25b of profits.
Honda axed Insight. so now it repalce with HRV. both Insight and HRV are based on Honda fit platform. they are not adding anything.
Only H/K group add vehicles to boost sales.
why you think US cost rise. You have nearly quarter profit decline.
Hyundai Net Profit Falls 25% on Slow China Demand - WSJ
Hyundai Net Profit Falls 25% on Slow China Demand
Sales in China slump, U.S. marketing costs rise
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...er-sales-slump
Hyundai, Kia replace China executives after sales slump
It is not the ATP but what kind of content you get at that price. H/K group give you more content so there profits are low. If profits are low. they cant afford the deep R&D which only Honda can afford.
12-06-2015, 10:17 PM
#3344
this lexus implementation.
Lexus RC Review | 2016 RC200t - Entry-Level Premium Coupe Goes Turbo, But For The Better?
It’s all about the new turbo with the RC 200t. Before turning a key, however, a shock comes in the form of a 1675kg kerb weight that is only 5kg lower than that of the RC 350. A Benz C 250 with 1.8 litre turbo is 65kg lighter than a C 350 with 3.5 litre V6.
The weight penalty may be down to extra built-in refinement. Lexus claims it delayed its turbo engine program because it wanted to achieve levels of quietness that its rivals couldn’t deliver. Drive a BMW 2.0 litre turbo petrol and, on light throttle at low speed, its clattery nature could fool you into thinking there was a diesel up-front.
The RC 200t is superbly refined and deathly quiet in the same place its 420i coupe rival is slightly noisy. (And the Germans are all a little noisy on coarse road surfaces.)
It’s all about the new turbo with the RC 200t. Before turning a key, however, a shock comes in the form of a 1675kg kerb weight that is only 5kg lower than that of the RC 350. A Benz C 250 with 1.8 litre turbo is 65kg lighter than a C 350 with 3.5 litre V6.
The weight penalty may be down to extra built-in refinement. Lexus claims it delayed its turbo engine program because it wanted to achieve levels of quietness that its rivals couldn’t deliver. Drive a BMW 2.0 litre turbo petrol and, on light throttle at low speed, its clattery nature could fool you into thinking there was a diesel up-front.
The RC 200t is superbly refined and deathly quiet in the same place its 420i coupe rival is slightly noisy. (And the Germans are all a little noisy on coarse road surfaces.)
12-06-2015, 11:48 PM
#3345
^ Overall, the GX and esp. the LX haven't sold in particularly large #s.
And that's even including LC sales (why include that? since it isn't luxury).
YTD sales
22,094 - GX
2,992 - LX
2,337 - LC
Compare that to Escalade and Yukon sales.
18,487 - Escalade
12,775 - ESV
37,471 - Yukon
26,798 - Yukon XL
(Heck, could also throw in the upper trim levels of the Suburban).
Furthermore, Lexus only sold 534 of the LS last month.
H/K sold 426 of the Equus/K900 which do not have AWD.
And the RLX which you claimed would see significant sales growth when the hybrid/SH-AWD version arrived sold a measly 120 last month - a good bit less than the K900.
And as usual, you are slow on the take and cherry-pick.
A big reason why profits are down is due to currency valuations, as well as the China market and the recessions in Brazil and Russia, but Hyundai is looking long term in the BRIM markets (increasing marketshare) and while still over-extended in China, have mostly recovered from their earlier stumble - which is why their share price has rebounded nicely from the low a few months earlier.
And that's even including LC sales (why include that? since it isn't luxury).
YTD sales
22,094 - GX
2,992 - LX
2,337 - LC
Compare that to Escalade and Yukon sales.
18,487 - Escalade
12,775 - ESV
37,471 - Yukon
26,798 - Yukon XL
(Heck, could also throw in the upper trim levels of the Suburban).
Furthermore, Lexus only sold 534 of the LS last month.
H/K sold 426 of the Equus/K900 which do not have AWD.
And the RLX which you claimed would see significant sales growth when the hybrid/SH-AWD version arrived sold a measly 120 last month - a good bit less than the K900.
And as usual, you are slow on the take and cherry-pick.
A big reason why profits are down is due to currency valuations, as well as the China market and the recessions in Brazil and Russia, but Hyundai is looking long term in the BRIM markets (increasing marketshare) and while still over-extended in China, have mostly recovered from their earlier stumble - which is why their share price has rebounded nicely from the low a few months earlier.
Last edited by YEH; 12-06-2015 at 11:58 PM.
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TacoBello (12-07-2015)
12-06-2015, 11:51 PM
#3346
^ Overall, the GX and esp. the LX haven't sold in particularly large #s.
And that's even including LC sales (why include that? since it isn't luxury).
YTD sales
22,094 - GX
2,992 - LX
2,337 - LC
Compare that to Escalade and Yukon sales.
18,487 - Escalade
12,775 - ESV
37,471 - Yukon
26,798 - Yukon XL
(Heck, could also throw in the upper trim levels of the Suburban).
Furthermore, Lexus only sold 534 of the LS last month.
H/K sold 426 of the Equus/K900 which do not have AWD.
And the RLX which you claimed would see significant sales growth when the hybrid/SH-AWD version arrived sold a measly 120 last month - a good bit less than the K900.
And that's even including LC sales (why include that? since it isn't luxury).
YTD sales
22,094 - GX
2,992 - LX
2,337 - LC
Compare that to Escalade and Yukon sales.
18,487 - Escalade
12,775 - ESV
37,471 - Yukon
26,798 - Yukon XL
(Heck, could also throw in the upper trim levels of the Suburban).
Furthermore, Lexus only sold 534 of the LS last month.
H/K sold 426 of the Equus/K900 which do not have AWD.
And the RLX which you claimed would see significant sales growth when the hybrid/SH-AWD version arrived sold a measly 120 last month - a good bit less than the K900.
12-06-2015, 11:59 PM
#3347
Honda Goes From Crisis to Crisis, Now Looks to New CEO to Recover
Honda Goes From Crisis to Crisis, Now Looks to New CEO to Recover
Honda Motor Co.’s chief executive officer will step aside later this year as Japan’s third-largest carmaker reels from one of the biggest setbacks over quality in its history.
Ito’s successor will face the challenge of navigating Honda past the latest crises, record recalls involving deadly Takata Corp. air bags and flaws with the popular Fit compact car, which have tarnished the company’s reputation for quality.
Takashi Yamamoto, currently in charge of production, and Yoshiharu Yamamoto, head of Honda R&D, will also step down.
Honda Motor Co.’s chief executive officer will step aside later this year as Japan’s third-largest carmaker reels from one of the biggest setbacks over quality in its history.
Ito’s successor will face the challenge of navigating Honda past the latest crises, record recalls involving deadly Takata Corp. air bags and flaws with the popular Fit compact car, which have tarnished the company’s reputation for quality.
Takashi Yamamoto, currently in charge of production, and Yoshiharu Yamamoto, head of Honda R&D, will also step down.
Honda’s leader will be replaced by a ‘leapfrog’ CEO
The shakeup comes amid growing competition in the United States from Nissan Motor Co., recalls that have led to delays of new vehicles, and cuts in the automaker's annual profit forecast as it grapples to replace potentially deadly air bags. Honda was also hit with a record $70 million fine in January by U.S. regulators over unreported deaths and injuries.
Honda's Accavitti leaves top post at Acura
Honda's Accavitti leaves top post at Acura
Mike Accavitti, vice president and general manager of Acura, has abruptly left the company and has been replaced by Jon Ikeda, American Honda Motor Co. said Monday.
Mike Accavitti, vice president and general manager of Acura, has abruptly left the company and has been replaced by Jon Ikeda, American Honda Motor Co. said Monday.
Honda’s leadership changes include new Ohio boss
Honda is making far-reaching leadership changes in North America, including a new top executive for the continent and a new chief overseeing the Ohio assembly plants.
Honda Top Executives Take Pay Cuts to Show Responsibility for Problems
Honda Motor Co. said Thursday top executives would take pay cuts to show they felt responsibility for recalls and quality problems, and the company created a new post to oversee safety changes.
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12-07-2015, 09:41 AM
#3348
AZ Community Team
It's the opposite for a RWD vehicle, since the the weight transfer allows more rear tire force, but when traction is lost (dynamic friction) the tires move laterally and yaw rotational spatial disorientation causes loss of control and steering on the front wheels often causes the operator to over-correct and lost control.
Basic vehicle dynamics 101.
12-07-2015, 01:46 PM
#3349
You'll Never Walk Alone
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The break-in process for engines with high silicone aluminium sleeves is different than cast iron engine sleeves. For J35 and other engines with cast iron sleeves, you want to break in smoothly, so something like 4000 rpm or less in the first 1-2k miles. But for high silicon engine sleeves, you want to break in more violently, so that the piston ring can smooth out the silicon particles. Otherwise, the silicon particles are going to deform the ring. In short, you need to drive hard to break in the J37. If not, then you have oil burning issues.
The problem is that, most high end German cars are fast, and people probably drive them hard too. But the J37 is found in luxury sedans that aren't exactly fast, or even a 7-seat SUV. Chances are, people drive these at a much slower pace, even after the break in period.
12-07-2015, 05:47 PM
#3350
12-07-2015, 05:52 PM
#3351
Team Owner
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YEH (12-12-2015)
12-07-2015, 06:54 PM
#3352
Yes, Hyundai should be more like Acura and keep these poor decision makers and poor performers around so their sales and products can continue to languish *cough* Acura RLX / ILX *cough*. Hyundai should just let things be. They should just be happy (complacent) with the way things are. Trying to improve things just means more work, and who wants to do more work? It's too hard to try.
12-08-2015, 12:06 AM
#3353
6G TLX-S
I doubt it, if 660HP was FWD it would understeer and push straight due to lack front tire friction and center of mass of the vehicle but the rear tires provide side friction/force to stabilize the vehicle.
It's the opposite for a RWD vehicle, since the the weight transfer allows more rear tire force, but when traction is lost (dynamic friction) the tires move laterally and yaw rotational spatial disorientation causes loss of control and steering on the front wheels often causes the operator to over-correct and lost control.
Basic vehicle dynamics 101.
It's the opposite for a RWD vehicle, since the the weight transfer allows more rear tire force, but when traction is lost (dynamic friction) the tires move laterally and yaw rotational spatial disorientation causes loss of control and steering on the front wheels often causes the operator to over-correct and lost control.
Basic vehicle dynamics 101.
Once the roads get curvy and the driver start opening the throttle, the massive engine torque on the front wheels will cause the front end of the vehicle to "dart around", not just simple understeering; thereby making the vehicle totally un-drivable.
Theories on papers are one thing, but real-life-real-car is another.
Try to name any 660hp FWD production automobile that any automaker, in the right mind, has put out = NONE.
But to name any 660+hp RWD production automobile that is available on the market = quite a handful.
12-08-2015, 12:50 AM
#3354
Now I understand what you're trying to say. Hyundai should be more like Acura. Poor RLX and ILX sales? Poor product (i.e. car) line up? Delayed product launches? Pfft! Who cares. Let the people in charge, the decision makers, keep their jobs. Accountability? Highly overrated.
Yes, Hyundai should be more like Acura and keep these poor decision makers and poor performers around so their sales and products can continue to languish *cough* Acura RLX / ILX *cough*. Hyundai should just let things be. They should just be happy (complacent) with the way things are. Trying to improve things just means more work, and who wants to do more work? It's too hard to try.
Yes, Hyundai should be more like Acura and keep these poor decision makers and poor performers around so their sales and products can continue to languish *cough* Acura RLX / ILX *cough*. Hyundai should just let things be. They should just be happy (complacent) with the way things are. Trying to improve things just means more work, and who wants to do more work? It's too hard to try.
12-08-2015, 12:54 AM
#3355
12-08-2015, 10:55 AM
#3356
Team Owner
yup, because they all sucked and they were all low volume sellers that didn't particularly do anything well. I liked the element, but it was stupid you couldnt remove the rear seats, just fold them up against the wall.
You can add the RLX to that list, maybe the ILX and Ridgeline also. Again, I liked the ridgeline for what it was, but it sucked in comparison to every other truck out there.
I Don't see H/K with as many failed models as H/A.
You can add the RLX to that list, maybe the ILX and Ridgeline also. Again, I liked the ridgeline for what it was, but it sucked in comparison to every other truck out there.
I Don't see H/K with as many failed models as H/A.
12-08-2015, 02:55 PM
#3357
AZ Community Team
A 660hp FWD vehicle will work fine if it only goes straight.
Once the roads get curvy and the driver start opening the throttle, the massive engine torque on the front wheels will cause the front end of the vehicle to "dart around", not just simple understeering; thereby making the vehicle totally un-drivable.
Theories on papers are one thing, but real-life-real-car is another.
Try to name any 660hp FWD production automobile that any automaker, in the right mind, has put out = NONE.
But to name any 660+hp RWD production automobile that is available on the market = quite a handful.
Once the roads get curvy and the driver start opening the throttle, the massive engine torque on the front wheels will cause the front end of the vehicle to "dart around", not just simple understeering; thereby making the vehicle totally un-drivable.
Theories on papers are one thing, but real-life-real-car is another.
Try to name any 660hp FWD production automobile that any automaker, in the right mind, has put out = NONE.
But to name any 660+hp RWD production automobile that is available on the market = quite a handful.
Meh, there's quite few 600+HP FWD out there. Production, no. but do they "dart around" and "totally un-drivable", no they drive just fine but lots of understeer and weight transfer that aids the rear tires traction which enhances stabilty
Would I want one, no.
In general a AWD is the best for a high power vehicle, then RWD, then FWD.
There are many compromises with each including vehicle stability under changing conditions such as transition from static to dynamic friction and extreme slip-angle.
There's often good reasons and compromises why designers choose FWD, AWD or RWD, one the greatest car engineer/designers of all time Gordon Murray has even written some great columns on it as well.
However I am amused by the 1000+HP Ody.
Burnouts For All The Family. The 1029hp Minivan - Speedhunters
In terms of "Theories on papers are one thing, but real-life-real-car is another.", ahhh no. Physics and theory apply in real life all the time in vehicle design, not in text books. If you're ever interested these teacher has some decent lectures on vehicle design including all aspects of the system. There's also some other cool videos for learning how to model various vehicle designs as well.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 12-08-2015 at 03:09 PM.
12-08-2015, 07:44 PM
#3358
Safety Car
However I am amused by the 1000+HP Ody.
Burnouts For All The Family. The 1029hp Minivan - Speedhunters
Burnouts For All The Family. The 1029hp Minivan - Speedhunters
Hilarious:
The end result of all of Bisimoto’s work is images like this – a minivan absolutely destroying its front tires on the street. Even at daily driver boost settings (600 horsepower), there’s no traction in gears 1-3 and at full boost, you won’t find traction in any gear. As Bisi says, that just means less stress on the drivetrain!
Wow that is awesome I want a 1000hp Odyssey. That gigantic intercooler is only thing that takes away from the look...otherwise it'd be the ultimate sleeper.
12-09-2015, 02:29 PM
#3359
Senior Moderator
Super Bowl 50 Spot
Acura will have a spot during the first quarter of Super Bowl 50 that will highlight the automaker’s North American presence. No other details on the spot were revealed but it’s likely the new NSX supercar will feature prominently in it.
The NSX is due to enter production next spring so a spot reminding Americans of the car, plus the fact that production will be taking place in Ohio, will be a smart move for the brand. The NSX is also a likely bet as Acura doesn’t have any other new products in the pipeline. And don’t forget, Acura made its Super Bowl debut in 2012 with a spot that depicted the original NSX concept.
Super Bowl 50 takes place February 7, 2016 at Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara, California. We should be hearing about spots from other automakers in the weeks to come. Fiat Chrysler Automobiles [NYSE:FCAU] usually spends the big bucks for some lengthy spots and last year we also saw brands like Lexus, Mercedes-Benz and Nissan all take part.
The NSX is due to enter production next spring so a spot reminding Americans of the car, plus the fact that production will be taking place in Ohio, will be a smart move for the brand. The NSX is also a likely bet as Acura doesn’t have any other new products in the pipeline. And don’t forget, Acura made its Super Bowl debut in 2012 with a spot that depicted the original NSX concept.
Super Bowl 50 takes place February 7, 2016 at Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara, California. We should be hearing about spots from other automakers in the weeks to come. Fiat Chrysler Automobiles [NYSE:FCAU] usually spends the big bucks for some lengthy spots and last year we also saw brands like Lexus, Mercedes-Benz and Nissan all take part.
12-10-2015, 04:09 AM
#3360
6G TLX-S
..