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If you really believe that, you're dumber than rocks.
It still took $$ to design and develop the RLX and to tool the factory and advertise.
Without separate Platform/Engine/Transmission it wont take much investment. Advertizement is just overhead part of Acura brand. What RL eSH-AWD did was testing in consumer hands. now it is all cleared for MDX which will be big seller. Hybrid SUV are in demand.
One of the most cost-worthy and profit-sucking things in the automotive industry is not running a production line (or factory) at or close to full capacity (if can exceed 100% capacity by adding a 3rd shift, even better).
And only you would be dumb enough to bring up the whole not having discounts thing (like you did w/ the lack of supply claim) when I just proved that the RLX had huge discounts on it and Honda still couldn't move the metal
You think I cant get Genesis at $10k discount?. you want to bet on this one.
Just look around used car Genesis prices. it is trending as low as RLX even for AWD/5.0V8 models. RLX does not have Panaromic roof.
Dear God it's like a public lynching. I can't help but watch. Never seen SSFTSX roasted this hard and Acura via collateral damage.
Originally Posted by YEH
Not really, as it is less expensive than the Accord hybrid.
And there is little separating the top offerings in the midsize sedan segment these days.
Some say the Sonata has the better ride and quieteness.
You really think buyers in this segment care about 0-60 times, much less 0-100 times? lmao
Honda's DCT hasn't exactly been free of problems.
So are you now saying the Sonata is comparable to the TLX? lol (My how the TLX/Acura have fallen.)
IMO, that would be a stretch, the SXL trim of the Optima otoh...
Never stated that it was.
Which is why they are launching the Genesis brand.
Please - the RLX (the Acura flagship) got dinged in reviews for its ride and NVH, in contrast to the Genesis/G80.
And the Genesis/G80 has gotten compared to the likes of the GS and CTS; the RLX not so much (would be compared to the XTS and MKS).
And I supposed the Legend in Japan isn't "luxury" since it is only adorned w/ the Honda badge.
Also, the Acura brand only exists in limited markets (not including its home/domestic market and the European market) - whereas, the Genesis brand will be worldwide.
Who cares? That's Honda's fault.
And you were confident in the RLX selling better than the RL, esp. when the hybrid version launched, but sales have only gotten worse.
What do you mean can't sell?
The Genesis was the 3rd best selling sedan in the midsize, RWD luxury sedan market in 2015 and for the past 2 months was the 2nd best seller and is on track to sell 30k for the year.
The RLX is on track to sell less than 4k.
Once Kia launches this...
may see the two do around 45k in sales.
Don't be such a nitwit (I know such a thing is real difficult for you).
Honda didn't get the sales it wanted with the RL - expected 20k in sales for the 2G RL (which was considered to be an attainable, but conservative goal - “That’s reasonably conservative...” - John Watt, manager-Acura product planning).
To be fair, the 2G did hit 17k in its 1st year, but after that, sales just slid (11.5k - 2nd yr) and kept on sliding all the way to a whopping total of 379 in 2012.
But Honda didn't even get anywhere close to the early 2G RL sales figures with the RLX.
It took the 2G RL 3-4 years before it dropped down to the 5k sales mark (the 1st and best sales yr for the RLX) and 5 years before the 2G RL dropped down to the 2k sales mark (the RLX did it in its 3rd year).
If you really believe that, you're dumber than rocks.
It still took $$ to design and develop the RLX and to tool the factory and advertise.
One of the most cost-worthy and profit-sucking things in the automotive industry is not running a production line (or factory) at or close to full capacity (if can exceed 100% capacity by adding a 3rd shift, even better).
And only you would be dumb enough to bring up the whole not having discounts thing (like you did w/ the lack of supply claim) when I just proved that the RLX had huge discounts on it and Honda still couldn't move the metal.
American Honda sedan and light truck sales push April sales up 14.4 percent to new record
Honda Division posts best ever April with strong car and truck sales
Acura Division marks April increase on record sales of RDX
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported a new April sales record of 148,829 Honda and Acura vehicles, an increase of 14.4 percent for the month. Year to date American Honda sales reached 506,532, up 9.2 percent. The Honda Division set a new monthly record with 132,623 units sold in April, an increase of 15.1 percent compared to April 2015 with year to date sales up 10.5 percent. Acura Division sales totaled 16,206, an increase of 9 percent in April with year to date sales reaching 54,081.
Honda
With strong and balanced demand across the lineup, Honda broke several records in April including posting best ever April sales results and setting a new light truck record. Honda cars also notched healthy gains with record sales of the all-new Civic along with strong Accord sales.
Civic continues to dominate the compact car segment with 6th consecutive month-over-month sales increases, up 24.5 percent to a new April record of 35,331.
Accord maintained strong demand as April sales totaled 31,526. The model experienced a 15.7 percent increase compared to April 2015 sales.
Honda light truck sales set a new April record of 60,372 units. Odyssey minivan sales totaled 13,047 sales in April, an increase of 17.6 percent, while Pilot boasted sales of 11,370, despite tight inventories.
"The strong cadence of new Honda cars and light trucks coming to market is clearly resonating with customers," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "With the all-new Ridgeline truck coming to market this summer, we will add another segment to our lineup and further accelerate our strong sales momentum in 2016."
Acura
Acura strengthened its position in the luxury vehicle segment as the brand experienced strong sedan and record light truck sales in April. The Acura light truck lineup posted its best April sales on record sales of the RDX luxury SUV. Acura sedans racked up sales of over 5,500 units on the strength of the ILX gateway sedan and TLX performance luxury sedan.
The RDX continues to show month-over-month sales increases, leading all Acura models in April and setting a new all-time monthly sales record of 5,905 units, an increase of 48.7 percent in April.
The ILX gateway sports sedan continues to catch the attention of Millennial buyers as April sales totaled 1,633 for the month. The ILX has captured a higher rate of under 35 year old buyers than any other vehicle in the entry-luxury sedan segment since 20101.
"Acura performance sedans and SUVs continue to gain momentum and market share in their segments," said Jon Ikeda, vice president and general manager of the Acura division. "Our lineup will further strengthen this summer when the restyled and reengineered MDX hits Acura dealerships."
A company that is selling economical cars with long warranties and deep discounts is going to enter premium brand. just imagine the discount levels on Genesis brand. Honda profit reflection of carrying the cost of separate brand Acura.
Considering this is an Acura board, wouldn't it be appropriate to discuss Acura/Hyundai comparisons in the Hyundai threads? Honda/Acura finally showing signs of life and all we get is a troll whining about Equus sales...
RDX saved Acura this month. But the next several months...?
I thought sales have been quite steady overall. If you look at the year-to-date comparison, all of the current selling models are well within +/- 20%. And the sum of this is that the overall year to year change is less than 1% so far this year.
ILX and RDX should be getting a FMC pretty soon as they came out in 2012 as 2013 models. That might mean more incentives for these in the near future.
MDX just got a facelift and the general feedback seems to be positive.
RLX, it's DOA since 2013..lol. Its sales contribution is negligible at best...haha.
TLX would be my number 1 priority if I have any say in product planning at Acura. It's a good value when it came out from a features to price point of view. It also has a nice, quite ride. However, the competition is moving forward fast. Heck, even the facelifted Accord is getting better and IMO too close to the TLX. There aren't many reasons to get the TLX over the Accord. I can't help but to think that Acura will need to increase incentives on the TLX real soon if they want to keep the sales momentum going.
RLX is actually doing pretty good. It is very similar sales figure as Equus. and only few hundred less than Lexus LS and Audi A8. on overall schemes of things RLX is not money loser.
RLX is actually doing pretty good. It is very similar sales figure as Equus. and only few hundred less than Lexus LS and Audi A8. on overall schemes of things RLX is not money loser.
With up to $10K factory/dealership discounts to try to move the spider-web covered, unsold RLX sedans out of Acura dealerships; the RLX is a dead flop.
And besides, the RLX competes with the Lexus GS and Audi A6. So please don't use the LS and the A8 numbers for comparison. It'll only make you look stupid.
RLX is actually doing pretty good. It is very similar sales figure as Equus. and only few hundred less than Lexus LS and Audi A8. on overall schemes of things RLX is not money loser.
Esp. resident troll in the past had argued that RLX was Acura's mid-segment competitor (5 Series, E Class, etc.) - so shouldn't we compare RLX sales to Genesis sedan sales? (Probably shouldn't since that would be downright embarrassing for the RLX.)
And even against the aged Equus, a model that is just about to be replaced, the RLX still doesn't fare well.
The RLX has sold 487 for the year whereas the Equus has sold 781.
And resident troll made excuses for low RLX sales in the past - saying that sales would get a lot better when the AWD RLX hit the market (if anything, sales have gone done since).
The Equus not having AWD (being RWD) is a much bigger deal when it comes to sales in the snow belt.
When the G90 launches, RLX sales will be left in the dust.
And the days of easy record profits are in the past for Japanese brands due to currency swings.
Toyota braces for plunging profits
Currency swings hammer Japanese automakers
TOKYO -- Seesawing foreign exchange rates are threatening to squeeze profits for Japanese automakers just as they intensify their efforts -- and their spending -- in the United States.
The changing reality of yen and dollars and other world currencies is crashing a three-year profit party at Toyota Motor Corp. After leading Toyota through three straight years of record profits, Toyota President Akio Toyoda warned last week that times are changing and that the company now must brace for a big profit plunge.
Across the Japanese industry last week, automakers revealed a dimmer outlook for 2016 after chalking big profits, in some cases records, in the just-ended fiscal year. That will complicate life not only for Toyota, but for Nissan, Honda, Subaru and Mazda this year: All of them are engaged in major capital spending programs in North America, expanding production footprints and entering new vehicle segments, as well as facing down a more expensive U.S. new-car market with slowing growth and rising incentive spending.
The Japanese yen appreciated 6 percent against the dollar over the previous fiscal year, and it is poised to continue that spike into the current fiscal year ending March 31, 2017
Esp. resident troll in the past had argued that RLX was Acura's mid-segment competitor (5 Series, E Class, etc.) - so shouldn't we compare RLX sales to Genesis sedan sales? (Probably shouldn't since that would be downright embarrassing for the RLX.)
Genesis is priced like TLX. it has subpar refinement and handling.
RLX SH-AWD can easily match M5 handling and refinement once you put summer performance tires.
And even against the aged Equus, a model that is just about to be replaced, the RLX still doesn't fare well.
RLX is also going to be replaced so?
The RLX has sold 487 for the year whereas the Equus has sold 781.
Equus comes with home delivery service and V8 engine. it is simply not competitive.
And resident troll made excuses for low RLX sales in the past - saying that sales would get a lot better when the AWD RLX hit the market (if anything, sales have gone done since).
they have employed that tech in 2017 MDX.
The Equus not having AWD (being RWD) is a much bigger deal when it comes to sales in the snow belt.
Just look at upcoming MDX.
When the G90 launches, RLX sales will be left in the dust.
sure with next generation RLX.
And the days of easy record profits are in the past for Japanese brands due to currency swings.
Honda is impacted by airbag recall not by currency swings.
Honda sales revenue the previous quarters are $33b. it is going towards $160b sale revenue firm. sale revenues is reflection of product price as discounts can reduce revenue. profits can be impacted with recalls, R&D and currency swings. it does not tell the tell the story of actual product value.
South Korea shipbuilders in shambles - Khaleej Times
South Korea shipbuilders in shambles
Hyundai - the world's top shipbuilder by sales - has reported a net loss for two straight years, totalling five trillion won. It posted its first net profit for more than two years in the first quarter of 2016, but Choi said that was largely thanks to lower raw material prices and a weaker Korean currency.
The company became "oversized and complacent" during the boom years of the 2000s, he said, urging "bone-crushing efforts" to compete against Chinese shipbuilders that won more than half of all new global orders this year.
"If we can't compete against Chinese ... our jobs will be eliminated," he said
SSFTSX (hey what's your name by the way?), is there a chance that Honda decides to cancel the RLX in the future and have the TLX become the flagship or some other new sedan?
Genesis is priced like TLX. it has subpar refinement and handling.
RLX SH-AWD can easily match M5 handling and refinement once you put summer performance tires.
RLX is also going to be replaced so?
Equus comes with home delivery service and V8 engine. it is simply not competitive.
they have employed that tech in 2017 MDX.
Just look at upcoming MDX.
sure with next generation RLX.
Honda is impacted by airbag recall not by currency swings.
Honda sales revenue the previous quarters are $33b. it is going towards $160b sale revenue firm. sale revenues is reflection of product price as discounts can reduce revenue. profits can be impacted with recalls, R&D and currency swings. it does not tell the tell the story of actual product value.
The legend is real. And not the Acura Legend, the SSFTSX legend.
Genesis is priced like TLX. it has subpar refinement and handling.
RLX SH-AWD can easily match M5 handling and refinement once you put summer performance tires.
RLX is also going to be replaced so?
Equus comes with home delivery service and V8 engine. it is simply not competitive.
they have employed that tech in 2017 MDX.
Just look at upcoming MDX.
sure with next generation RLX.
Honda is impacted by airbag recall not by currency swings.
Honda sales revenue the previous quarters are $33b. it is going towards $160b sale revenue firm. sale revenues is reflection of product price as discounts can reduce revenue. profits can be impacted with recalls, R&D and currency swings. it does not tell the tell the story of actual product value.
The only proven fact here is RLX with summer tires will match M5's performance. Everything else is completely false.
Genesis is priced like TLX. it has subpar refinement and handling.
One again, you are incorrect (and I have to correct your misstatements).
The departed TL was priced like the Genesis (at the time) - $36k for '14MY.
Honda dropped down the TL's replacement, the TLX, half a price-point down to $31.4k (now $31.6k for '16MY); the Genesis now starts at $38.8k and when the the (refreshed) G80 hits the lots, the price should hit around the $40k mark (so despite having a luxury badge and dealer network, the heads at Honda don't think the TLX can achieve the higher price-point, hence the significant price-cut).
Yes, the TLX is sportier than the Genesis, but so what?
The Genesis/G80 is a good bit larger (196.5" vs. 190.3"), is heavier in part due to having to be able to support a V8 powertrain and is going more after the luxo-cruiser market.
The Genesis G70 (roughly based on the New York concept) will be the competitor to the TLX being roughly the same size and about the same price (G70 will probably start a little higher than the TLX).
RLX SH-AWD can easily match M5 handling and refinement once you put summer performance tires
Few Acura buyers care and the RLX SH-AWD can't even come close to the M5 in power (wait - I thought you stated that the RLX competed against the likes of the Equus - so against the flagship segment? So shouldn't you be comparing against the BMW Alpina B7 or are you once again, flip-flopping?).
Honda got rid of SH-AWD on the RDX b/c buyers weren't willing to pay the premium and replaced it w/ a simpler/cheaper AWD system.
Honda also started to offer the MDX in FWD form b/c that's what buyers in the sun belt demanded (didn't care about the handling aspects of SH-AWD).
And you repeatedly stated that RLX sales would rise sharply after the launch of the hybrid SH-AWD trim (arguing that buyers were waiting for the superior handling version), but such rise in RLX sales failed to materialize and if anything, since then, sales have only fallen.
This is just another one of your lame excuses for RLX sales (just like your claim that Honda has limited supply in order to keep the RLX more exclusive - which is about as moronic a claim anyone can make).
Acura sold 19 RLX hybrids for April and a whopping 50 up thru the month (meanwhile Hyundai has sold 1k+ of the V8 Genesis) which means being on pace to sell a miserable 150 for the year.
So, if anything, the RLX hybrid w/ SH-AWD is an even greater FAILURE than the FWD RLX.
In terms of failures in the automotive industry, the RLX is one of the biggest.
RLX is also going to be replaced so?
The RLX is THREE years old and was supposed to the Acura's great hope of improving upon disappointing RL sales, but the RLX has turned out to be an even greater disappointment than the RL.
The Equus is EIGHT years old and was developed solely for the Korean market and was never intended to be exported to the US and doesn't have AWD which is hugely important for a luxury RWD sedan in the US market (meanwhile, the RLX not only has AWD, but the SH-AWD system and was developed mainly for the US market).
Gee, if you think those circumstances are remotely similar, you're even more of an ignoramus than what posters here think of you.
And stop talking about the new RLX - a new RLX is still 3-4 years away (maybe more if Honda drags its leg on development due to it not likely to bringing a return on investment).
As for the MDX (which has nothing to do w/ the Equus/G90), it'll still be a FDW-based CUV where the Genesis competitor will be RWD-based.
offcourse tires. Type R even with inferior tires make Ford RS eats its tires.
Honda is world leader in aerodynamics and handling.
Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R | PistonHeads Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R
On road and track in the two hot hatches of the moment - which is best?
No, put simply. The Civic is fantastic at Anglesey, only undone by some Continental SportContact 6s that aren't best suited to circuit driving. Trying the Type R on the Ford's Michelin Pilot SuperSport or, indeed, its optional Cup 2s, would be very interesting. It's the Honda that everyone wants to drive again though, all raving about its precision and agility. It eventually becomes the only one people can drive again, as the Focus chews through its front tyres far more rapidly
One again, you are incorrect (and I have to correct your misstatements).
The departed TL was priced like the Genesis (at the time) - $36k for '14MY.
Transaction prices of Genesis and TLX not that far away. they are in the same class.
Honda dropped down the TL's replacement, the TLX, half a price-point down to $31.4k (now $31.6k for '16MY); the Genesis now starts at $38.8k and when the the (refreshed) G80 hits the lots, the price should hit around the $40k mark (so despite having a luxury badge and dealer network, the heads at Honda don't think the TLX can achieve the higher price-point, hence the significant price-cut).
its 4cylinder without leather model that start at $32k with inferior rims and tires. just tire and rim upgrade cost $2k.
Yes, the TLX is sportier than the Genesis, but so what?
TLX is also as quiet or more quieter than Genesis despite not having the nosie reducing rims of RLX or higher quality tires. you have zero basic understanding of cars. i am not sure why you even debating about Autos.
The Genesis/G80 is a good bit larger (196.5" vs. 190.3"), is heavier in part due to having to be able to support a V8 powertrain and is going more after the luxo-cruiser market.
its not the length of the car but the luxury driving experience that matters. TLX is no way inferior to Genesis. no one buys those V8 Genesis.
The Genesis G70 (roughly based on the New York concept) will be the competitor to the TLX being roughly the same size and about the same price (G70 will probably start a little higher than the TLX).
come back once you have actual transaction prices. for G70. you can put what ever price on car.
Few Acura buyers care and the RLX SH-AWD can't even come close to the M5 in power (wait - I thought you stated that the RLX competed against the likes of the Equus - so against the flagship segment? So shouldn't you be comparing against the BMW Alpina B7 or are you once again, flip-flopping?).
That Equus is joke. RLX has the luxury experience of electric torque and 7DCT that no one else has in any car below $100k. you have to go to V8 turbos and they are not that refined.
Honda got rid of SH-AWD on the RDX b/c buyers weren't willing to pay the premium and replaced it w/ a simpler/cheaper AWD system.
that 4 cylinder 1G RDX was cheaper than 2G RDX regardless of Sh-AWD.
Honda also started to offer the MDX in FWD form b/c that's what buyers in the sun belt demanded (didn't care about the handling aspects of SH-AWD).
they are not introducing high powered MDX hybrid. that will sent any Hyundai SUV into dustbin.
And you repeatedly stated that RLX sales would rise sharply after the launch of the hybrid SH-AWD trim (arguing that buyers were waiting for the superior handling version), but such rise in RLX sales failed to materialize and if anything, since then, sales have only fallen.
Yen is rising. they better built NA built MDX with Mexican parts.
This is just another one of your lame excuses for RLX sales (just like your claim that Honda has limited supply in order to keep the RLX more exclusive - which is about as moronic a claim anyone can make).
yes they want to make it exclusive. that's why there are 1 or 2 per dealer in very limted colors. Just look around Craigslist for Equus.
Acura sold 19 RLX hybrids for April and a whopping 50 up thru the month (meanwhile Hyundai has sold 1k+ of the V8 Genesis) which means being on pace to sell a miserable 150 for the year.
So, if anything, the RLX hybrid w/ SH-AWD is an even greater FAILURE than the FWD RLX.
As i said RLX hybrid will not be there on craigslist like Equus. Equus used is selling at price of Taxis.
In terms of failures in the automotive industry, the RLX is one of the biggest.
what about Accord hybrids. the newest one. these are all for technology demonstration.
The RLX is THREE years old and was supposed to the Acura's great hope of improving upon disappointing RL sales, but the RLX has turned out to be an even greater disappointment than the RL.
Acura is doing fine without RLX sales. Its Hyundai you need to think about it. Hyundai and premium brand is one way ticket to bankruptcy. Premium cars is not cellular phone that you can built it in Vietnam like Samsung and carriers will subsidize.
The Equus is EIGHT years old and was developed solely for the Korean market and was never intended to be exported to the US and doesn't have AWD which is hugely important for a luxury RWD sedan in the US market (meanwhile, the RLX not only has AWD, but the SH-AWD system and was developed mainly for the US market).
that Equus is complete joke. i am not sure why you even mention it. just look at craigslist prices for it.
And stop talking about the new RLX - a new RLX is still 3-4 years away (maybe more if Honda drags its leg on development due to it not likely to bringing a return on investment).
why would RLX 3 or 4 years away. think harder. Honda is moving to new engines in less than two years. Just the TLX upgrades/replacement will be better than any Hyundai car.
As for the MDX (which has nothing to do w/ the Equus/G90), it'll still be a FDW-based CUV where the Genesis competitor will be RWD-based.
utter nonsense. Just watch this video about Ridgline. where the engineer told Nathan. Ridgeline is not FWD based. since Hyundai is technology deficient. it has very little understanding of complex things at higher level.
Hey SSFTSX, you have some honda jizz hanging from the corner of your mouth. It's getting very distracting trying to understand your points, as it keeps swinging side to side, like a pendulum. Please clean up, before proceeding.
04-25-2016, 03:56 AM
and 
April 2016
I genuinely think I've seen more Equus than RLX around here, recently.
Keep it alive!!!!! Add a few new colors, it will boost sales by 10,001%
