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its never a percentage as lower priced vehicles and especially honda/acura are very decontented relative to competition. So neither consumer nor the manufacturer lose money on it.
On tlx fit finish is below tsx and removed the dwb. on tlx at best after 3 years. It will depreciate $15k.
while bmw 3/5/7 anywhere from $25k to $60k. After warranty even dealers have hard time sale it.
Bmw revenues are total bogus. They cant increase revenue even with increase in unit sales.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
so no more audi? Now we moved on to bmw?
And find me a 3 years old tlx that depreciates 15k, if you can't then you are making shit up and you'll lose another point.
Originally Posted by ssftsx
how are the prices on 3 year old tsx at acura dealer when it is certified.
There is no 3 year old TLX yet but it is reasonable assumption that there prices will not be that different than TSX.. $15k is the ball park figure of TLX depreciation.
There is no 3 year old TLX yet but it is reasonable assumption that there prices will not be that different than TSX.. $15k is the ball park figure of TLX depreciation.
What a fucking retard. He's now complaining that Audi sells TOO many vehicles? Are you fucking kidding me?
So wait, by acura not selling shit, they have more prestige? Uh, people buy what they like. Clearly people aren't liking Acura. There's no prestige to the brand. Low prices, average product, bland styling... yeah... prestigious
That must mean BMW and MB have zero prestige also. They sell way more than Audi.
Shut up, jackass. You're a fucking clown.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
RLX is the most valued model but you only see 1 once every few months. Based on the sales #, it is more rare than the Lambos.
Well, that was resident troll's argument for Honda purportedly limiting supply of the RL/RLX - that it was to increase prestige (LMAO) and not b/c of poor sales.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
and what's your point?
whose fault is it that Acura is not competing in every segment? You are blaming others for Acura not offering certain models or engines?
Do you blame others for making too much $$ for your inability to make money?
You know what is not devaluing the brand? the day that Acura does not exist anymore because apparently selling too many cars is bad for business.
The Germans are simply offering luxury buyers choice (sedan, hatch, 4-door coupe, crossover, liftback, sport crossover) when it comes to bodystyles.
When Honda tried to do some of that with the Crossturd and ZDX - they failed miserably.
The Germans also offer customization - which neither the Japanese or Koreans do (since it is cost intensive to offer things in set packages).
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
You are the only who said you can't even buy a Civic with $22k from the A3 and you are saying i am comparing Apple and orange?
and is this how you calculate depreciation value? how much does its superior ground clearance and superior vents location add to the resale value?
Depreciation means little at the upper ends of the luxury segment.
Taking out the uber-lux brands like Rolls and Bentley, the models with the greatest depreciation are the top trims of the S Class and 7 Series - a segment where Honda doesn't even attempt to compete.
Also, tarted-up FWD models tend to do better when it comes to depreciation due to a # of factors like a smaller gap btwn ATP and MSRP (as more expensive RWD models tend to have higher margins), better reliability and lower maintenance/repair costs (FWD models don't get the performance engines and other components) - so after the warranty period expires, the luxury bargain buyers are more opt to purchase a used FWD-luxury sedan.
The Lexus ES has better resale than the GS or LS, but hardly makes the ES better.
Also, totally hilarious that resident troll brings up comparing apples to oranges...
This is coming from the troll who changes what the RLX is compared to (for instances in certain cases, the Genesis and in other cases, the Equus) depending on what factor he can make the RLX look better.
And Acura simply doesn't compete head to head with Audi (which still lags behind MB and BMW) despite both being FWD-based.
The RLX is Acura's full-size FWD luxury sedan but doesn't compete against the A8.
The TLX is a midsize sedan, but doesn't compete against the A6.
The Acura models compete one segment down in price - in fact, more than one segment down in price.
So all this talk about depreciation is stupid and just a typical, misleading troll tangent.
Taking out the uber-lux brands like Rolls and Bentley, the models with the greatest depreciation are the top trims of the S Class and 7 Series - a segment where Honda doesn't even attempt to compete.
Also, tarted-up FWD models tend to do better when it comes to depreciation due to a # of factors like a smaller gap btwn ATP and MSRP (as more expensive RWD models tend to have higher margins), better reliability and lower maintenance/repair costs (FWD models don't get the performance engines and other components) - so after the warranty period expires, the luxury bargain buyers are more opt to purchase a used FWD-luxury sedan.
where you get idea of RWD sedans have higher margins? 99% of RWD vehicles are 4cylinder turbos from German. so from where that performance engine maintaince issue comes from.?
The Lexus ES has better resale than the GS or LS, but hardly makes the ES better.
where you get ES has better resale value? it has lesser resale value than lexus IS despite similarly priced.
Also, totally hilarious that resident troll brings up comparing apples to oranges...
This is coming from the troll who changes what the RLX is compared to (for instances in certain cases, the Genesis and in other cases, the Equus) depending on what factor he can make the RLX look better.
And Acura simply doesn't compete head to head with Audi (which still lags behind MB and BMW) despite both being FWD-based.
The RLX is Acura's full-size FWD luxury sedan but doesn't compete against the A8.
The TLX is a midsize sedan, but doesn't compete against the A6.
The Acura models compete one segment down in price - in fact, more than one segment down in price.
So all this talk about depreciation is stupid and just a typical, misleading troll tangent.
You are writing nonsense. Acura does not offer 4 year maintainance or runflat tires or plethora of engines. BMW X5 has double wishbone suspension while MDX does not. Acura simply offer less technology that's why its prices less. because they realistic about consumer incomes and there debt burden what they can afford. than creating overpriced junk that need to dumped at bargain basement prices.
where you get idea of RWD sedans have higher margins? 99% of RWD vehicles are 4cylinder turbos from German. so from where that performance engine maintaince issue comes from.?
where you get ES has better resale value? it has lesser resale value than lexus IS despite similarly priced.
You are writing nonsense. Acura does not offer 4 year maintainance or runflat tires or plethora of engines. BMW X5 has double wishbone suspension while MDX does not. Acura simply offer less technology that's why its prices less. because they realistic about consumer incomes and there debt burden what they can afford. than creating overpriced junk that need to dumped at bargain basement prices.
1. You need to check your #s.
2. again check your facts about Acura
3. Realistic about consumer incomes? then remove Acura and just sell Honda... actually remove most of Honda and just sell HRV and Fit.
my facts are very accurate. Acura does not even give you heated steering wheel in TLX/ILX.
large families still need space for Pilot/Odyssey/CRV/Ridgeline/MDX.
my facts are very accurate. Acura does not even give you heated steering wheel in TLX/ILX.
large families still need space for Pilot/Odyssey/CRV/Ridgeline/MDX.
what in the world does this have to do with how many RWD cars are 4 cylinder turbos?
Here's an interesting report from Motor Trend (credit to Perian).
Motor Trend
August 2016; Page 19
Have you been seeing a lot of new Honda Civics around? If so, there's a good reason why. They're loaded with class-exclusive features, and they cost less than the competition at the same trim levels.
What they don't do, according to well-placed sources, is make money. In fact, Honda may even be losing money on every new Civic it sells.
No doubt the strategy is to capture market share by undercutting the competition, but you have to wonder how long a company, even one as big as Honda, can afford to lose money on a high-volume car.
Not surprised as it has become a blood-bath in the mainstream sedan market as buyers increasingly hold out for crossovers/SUVs unless baited by superlative deals on a sedan.
Word was that Toyota and Nissan were subsidizing their sedan sales via the healthy margins on their crossover/SUV sales.
where you get idea of RWD sedans have higher margins? 99% of RWD vehicles are 4cylinder turbos from German. so from where that performance engine maintaince issue comes from.?
That's pretty basic auto industry stuff...
And no - 99% of RWD vehicles (from Germany) are not 4-bangers (where do you come up w/ this crap?).
where you get ES has better resale value? it has lesser resale value than lexus IS despite similarly priced.
According to KBB's 2016 - Best Resale Value Awards: Entry-Level Luxury Car - the ES finished 2nd and the IS finished 3rd.
You are writing nonsense. Acura does not offer 4 year maintainance or runflat tires or plethora of engines. BMW X5 has double wishbone suspension while MDX does not. Acura simply offer less technology that's why its prices less. because they realistic about consumer incomes and there debt burden what they can afford. than creating overpriced junk that need to dumped at bargain basement prices.
Acura was not launched as a head to head competitor against the Germans and Honda long ago gave up on any attempt of trying to compete head to head (when they abandoned their RWD/V8 program).
RWD always commands a premium - which is why the more value-oriented FWD-based Lexus and Acura crossover sell in greater #s, but at a lower price-point.
Honda knows what its customer base is for Acura - hence getting rid of the SH-AWD system for the RDX and selling a FWD-only version of the MDX.
Honda, with Acura, has failed miserably at the higher end of the luxury sedan segment w/ the RL and now the RLX.
Meanwhile Cadillac has done fairly well w/ the XTS (still selling over 20k/yr) and even in a declining sedan market, the Conti should do well for Lincoln.
Meanwhile Cadillac has done fairly well w/ the XTS (still selling over 20k/yr) and even in a declining sedan market, the Conti should do well for Lincoln.
No they haven't. Sales numbers for Cadillac are atrocious and Lincoln is a dead brand. GM and Ford would be better off creating a new performance brand, IMHO.
Edit: misread the table, but Acura has outsold Cadillac YTD in the US, which is a disgrace for Cadillac. And I'm getting all confused, because the XTS is a sedan, but the XT5 isn't. Sorry.
Here's an interesting report from Motor Trend (credit to Perian).
Motor Trend
August 2016; Page 19
Not surprised as it has become a blood-bath in the mainstream sedan market as buyers increasingly hold out for crossovers/SUVs unless baited by superlative deals on a sedan.
Word was that Toyota and Nissan were subsidizing their sedan sales via the healthy margins on their crossover/SUV sales.
That's pretty basic auto industry stuff...
And no - 99% of RWD vehicles (from Germany) are not 4-bangers (where do you come up w/ this crap?).
According to KBB's 2016 - Best Resale Value Awards: Entry-Level Luxury Car - the ES finished 2nd and the IS finished 3rd.
Acura was not launched as a head to head competitor against the Germans and Honda long ago gave up on any attempt of trying to compete head to head (when they abandoned their RWD/V8 program).
RWD always commands a premium - which is why the more value-oriented FWD-based Lexus and Acura crossover sell in greater #s, but at a lower price-point.
Honda knows what its customer base is for Acura - hence getting rid of the SH-AWD system for the RDX and selling a FWD-only version of the MDX.
Honda, with Acura, has failed miserably at the higher end of the luxury sedan segment w/ the RL and now the RLX.
Meanwhile Cadillac has done fairly well w/ the XTS (still selling over 20k/yr) and even in a declining sedan market, the Conti should do well for Lincoln.
Are you stupid?. why you need motor trend tell you what kind of valye Civic provide. It is still the most expensive offering in its class despite eliminating certain things and charging more for some thing else. I will let you figure out about it as studying Civic not hard.
X5 and MDX straight comparison. MDX lacks double wishbone suspension, older engine that lack turbo charging, run flat wider tire rim setup, bigger brakes, customization etc. I go on on certain other things also. These things have nothing to do with RWD vs FWD. On real world X5 has now bigger discounts than MDX. so need to reference KBB.
Are you stupid?. why you need motor trend tell you what kind of valye Civic provide. It is still the most expensive offering in its class despite eliminating certain things and charging more for some thing else. I will let you figure out about it as studying Civic not hard.
X5 and MDX straight comparison. MDX lacks double wishbone suspension, older engine that lack turbo charging, run flat wider tire rim setup, bigger brakes, customization etc. I go on on certain other things also. These things have nothing to do with RWD vs FWD. On real world X5 has now bigger discounts than MDX. so need to reference KBB.
No they haven't. Sales numbers for Cadillac are atrocious and Lincoln is a dead brand. GM and Ford would be better off creating a new performance brand, IMHO.
Edit: misread the table, but Acura has outsold Cadillac YTD in the US, which is a disgrace for Cadillac. And I'm getting all confused, because the XTS is a sedan, but the XT5 isn't. Sorry.
You also misread what YEH wrote. He was referring to sales of Acura's flagship sedan (RL/RLX) vs Cadillac's flagship sedan (XTS) vs Lincoln's upcoming new flagship (Continental).... not overall Acura sales vs overall Cadillac sales vs overall Lincoln sales.
Look at RL/RLX sales vs XTS sales vs MKS sales.
As YEH said, Acura "has failed miserably at the higher end of the luxury sedan segment w/ the RL and now the RLX."
AHM and Honda Division set new June sales records for light trucks as the all-new 2017 Ridgeline launches
Honda CR-V leads with new June sales record
Honda cars continue to show gains, with across-the-board increases in June
Acura NSX deliveries begin and the redesigned 2017 Acura MDX hits the market
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported June sales of 138,715 Honda and Acura vehicles, a year-over-year increase of 3.2 percent and a new June record for light trucks which gained 2.2 percent on sales of 68,780. Honda division trucks also set a new June record, jumping 6.6 percent on sales of 61,469 vehicles while Honda cars enjoyed an even greater increase, rising 7.7 percent on sales of 65,894 units. Acura division sales totaled 11,352 in June, a decrease of 26.9 percent versus last year. Total American Honda six-month sales of Honda and Acura vehicles are up 5.2 percent versus year-ago results.
Honda
Continued robust demand for both cars and light trucks pushed the Honda brand to strong June results, including a new June record for trucks and substantial gains for Honda cars. On the truck side, sales of CR-V reached a new all-time June record, while Pilot and Odyssey each made notable gains for the month and the all-new 2017 Ridgeline got off to a strong start in its 1st weeks on the market. The hot-selling Civic nearly reached 32,000 sales while Accord topped 28,000 for the month, with added support from the just-launched 2017 Accord Hybrid.
The all-new 2017 Honda Ridgeline pickup notched a robust 2,472 sales after just over 1 week on the market.
CR-V, America's best-selling SUV over the past 20 years, set a new June sales record, rising 4.5 percent on sales of 29,615 units.
The 10th-generation Civic lit up the compact car segment with another double-digit gain, posting sales of 31,810 for a gain of 10.7 percent in June.
Accord posted a 4.8 percent increase for the month on sales of 28,806 as Honda celebrated the 40th birthday of the model, America's best-selling car over the past 40 years. The award-winning Accord lineup was joined this month by the all-new 2017 Accord Hybrid, boasting the highest EPA fuel economy ratings and most horsepower of any midsize hybrid sedan.
"With the all new Ridgeline pickup and the redesigned Accord Hybrid back in the lineup, we're continuing to expand and strengthen our portfolio as we look toward a 3rd straight year of record results," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division.
Acura
After the recent sell-down of 2016 RDX and MDX and 2017 models starting to fill the pipeline, Acura posted a 26.9 percent decline in June on sales 11,352 vehicles. With a newly refreshed 2017 Acura MDX hitting the ground and a special summer sales campaign launching soon, Acura looks toward an improving summer sales picture.
"With initial deliveries of the NSX under way and the redesigned 2017 MDX now hitting showrooms, we're looking ahead to a strong second half of the year," said Jon Ikeda, vice president and general manager of the Acura division. [/FONT]
Looks like U.S. TLX sales for 2016 will be less than the 47,080 sold in 2015. YTD they've sold 18,913 TLX's. They'll need to sell an average of 4,695 a month for the next 6 months just to match last years numbers. April (3,779 sold) was their best month for TLX sales so far.
By the looks of things, I'm going to guess that 2016 TLX sales will come in at or just under 40,000.
Since there are not a lot of changes for 2017 TLX, which will be sold during 2nd half of the year. but a lot of its competitors are introducing "new" cars like A4, new Q60, 330 LCI, 430/440. It might be enough tougher for TLX.
No they haven't. Sales numbers for Cadillac are atrocious and Lincoln is a dead brand. GM and Ford would be better off creating a new performance brand, IMHO.
Originally Posted by AZuser
You also misread what YEH wrote. He was referring to sales of Acura's flagship sedan (RL/RLX) vs Cadillac's flagship sedan (XTS) vs Lincoln's upcoming new flagship (Continental).... not overall Acura sales vs overall Cadillac sales vs overall Lincoln sales.
Look at RL/RLX sales vs XTS sales vs MKS sales.
As YEH said, Acura "has failed miserably at the higher end of the luxury sedan segment w/ the RL and now the RLX."
Exactly.
Originally Posted by kurtatx
Edit: misread the table, but Acura has outsold Cadillac YTD in the US, which is a disgrace for Cadillac. And I'm getting all confused, because the XTS is a sedan, but the XT5 isn't. Sorry.
The difference in YTD sales btwn Acura and Cadillac isn't that big (78,994 vs. 73,231) and that 5,500 spread is basically due to the winding down of SRX sales (before XT5 sales started to ramp up).
Also, it's misleading to just look at sales #s; one has to also take into account the # of vehicles sold in particular price segments which impacts overall ATP and Cadillac has a much higher ATP than Acura.
For instance, AZuser has shown the gigantic discrepancy btwn XTS and RLX sales - YTD, it's now 9,787 vs. 727.
But Cadillac has another sedan, the CTS, in the same price range - so can add the 7,906 CTS sales to the 9,787 and YTD, Cadillac has sold 17,693 in the mid-price range compared to a measly 727 for Acura.
And sales of the CT6 (a tweener, not quite a flagship) are ramping up and should break the 1k barrier in the coming months; for June, Cadillac sold 4,362 sedans in the mid/high price-range or a whopping 38.6x what Acura did (113).
For all the flack that Cadillac has gotten, remember, they only compete in 1 crossover segment presently (Cadillac should do a lot better down the road once they get their full crossover lineup) and they have sold 2.5x the # of mid-priced, luxury sedans as has Lexus (7,452 GS sold YTD).
As an aside, YTD, the CTS, alone, is outselling the GS, but the auto press has been all over CTS sales, but don't hold the GS to the same standard; in addition, Cadillac has sold out of the current model year for the CTS-V, whereas one can easily find a GS-F on the lot.
And when it comes to premium/luxury sales - one shouldn't look just at Cadillac for GM.
After all, the direct competitor for the ILX is the Verano and for the TLX, the Regal (well, the next gen Regal) with the LaCrosse being GM's competitor for the Lexus ES.
Buick sales YTD are 104,207 - so what does that say about Acura sales?
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
Are you stupid?. why you need motor trend tell you what kind of valye Civic provide. It is still the most expensive offering in its class despite eliminating certain things and charging more for some thing else. I will let you figure out about it as studying Civic not hard.
Someone who is ridiculed here as being the resident MORON shouldn't be throwing such accusations around.
And whatever the case may be, that doesn't negate Honda not making $$ on Civic sales.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
X5 and MDX straight comparison. MDX lacks double wishbone suspension, older engine that lack turbo charging, run flat wider tire rim setup, bigger brakes, customization etc. I go on on certain other things also. These things have nothing to do with RWD vs FWD. On real world X5 has now bigger discounts than MDX. so need to reference KBB.
Only in your deluded mind does the MDX compete directly against the X5.
X5 sales cheaper than MDX in used car market. MDX is Gold standard in handling performance SUVs despite getting narrower 245 size tires.
You should worry about Hyundai/Kia. there sales not increasing despite introducing so many new models. how is Genesis sales coming?. You will be losing money on all your RWD platforms. you don't have enough sales.
Lexus GS/IS has nearly identical wheel base and same engines.
Honda overall sales are increased as Honda Ridgeline is introduced with same V6 as Pilot. I am very positive about Honda keeping overall momentum despite CRV in its final year. we have to see how MMC MDX especially the electric on performs.
The difference in YTD sales btwn Acura and Cadillac isn't that big (78,994 vs. 73,231) and that 5,500 spread is basically due to the winding down of SRX sales (before XT5 sales started to ramp up).
Not sure if this has been discussed in this thread, but we need to keep in mind that approximately 20% of total GM sales is from fleet sales.
Using that estimation, the YTD would go from 73231 to 58585.
Of course, it depends exactly how the fleet sales are distributed for each brand under GM (i.e. could be 30% for chevy, 15% for Cadillac, etc). But the idea is that the 73000 figure from what I understand isn't all retail sales.
Honda overall sales are increased as Honda Ridgeline is introduced with same V6 as Pilot. I am very positive about Honda keeping overall momentum despite CRV in its final year. we have to see how MMC MDX especially the electric on performs.
Wow, the same, 15 year old J series engine eh? Maybe Honda will finally crack the 300hp or 300lbft mark this time... nope!
06-06-2016, 11:07 PM
