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Well, MT had that coming from what they regarded as a well-placed source and it's not like Honda has made a statement refuting it (not that I expected them to do so).
.
The problem is all it was is a link to a gm authority website forum (which is full of malware). I happened to look at the August Motor Trend print magazine (while waiting for a prescription) and although I didn't read every word looked through the news section pretty well in the front and only Honda article (Honda Ridgeline test drive) in that issue. Nothing was said in there about the Civic losing money. Didn't see it on the online Motor Trend as well. So for now, I call on that poster on the gmauthority website unless someone can post something from MT itself.
Nissan Chases U.S. Sales Gains as Discounts Lift It Beyond Honda - Bloomberg
For Nissan, fleet sales rose 42 percent in the first five months of the year to 175,505, according to the most recent data from R.L. Polk & Co., as Honda sold fewer than 10,000 vehicles to fleets. Most of Nissan’s fleet sales went to rental agencies, which tend to buy cars at a discount and order them with fewer price-boosting options than those sold to individual consumers. Without fleet sales, Honda would have outsold Nissan in the U.S.
Nissan has also stepped up its incentives, averaging about $3,400 a vehicle this year through June, a 6 percent increase from a year earlier, according to Autodata Corp. Honda’s average was $1,630, down 11 percent. Among mass-market automakers, only the U.S. companies spent more than Nissan.
profits will go further down the drain with Genesis brand.
Hyundai slides to 10th straight profit drop, sees tougher US market
We expect competition to intensify in the US market in the second half,” Zayong Koo, Hyundai vice president in charge of investor relations, told an earnings conference. Mr Koo said sales incentives to coax buyers into showrooms jumped in the first half, without saying how much the promotions cost Hyundai.
If you look at the interior dimensions, the 2G TSX, 4G TL, and 2G RL are quite similar:
Front Head Room: 38.4" vs 37.6" vs 38.4"
Front Leg Room: 42.5" vs 42.4 vs 42.3"
Front Hip Room: 55.7" vs 55.6" vs 55.1"
Front Shoulder Room: 58.2" vs 57.8" vs 58.5"
Rear Head Room: 36.7" vs 37.0" vs 37.2"
Rear Leg Room: 36.2" vs 34.3 vs 36.3"
Rear Hip Room: 54.8" vs 54.2" vs 54"
Rear Shoulder Room: 56.2" vs 56.1" vs 56.1"
Don't know about you, but based on these numbers, I don't think I can say the TL is noticeably bigger than the TSX, and that the TL and RL are similar in size. I'd say, these 3 cars are pretty damn close in terms of size. For the TL, a lot of the extra exterior length is from the relatively pointy beak and rear end.
Yup, I agree that base price is one way of looking at things, another is the price range. The TSX and TL together cover a range of $30k (base TSX) to $46k (TL AWD Advance). That's quite a small range. Just look at the 3 series (excluding the M3), it covers from $32k to $60 or even $70k.
The TSX/TL combo was brought in to illustrate how having 2 models in the same segment can add to sales. It doesn't matter much which segment we are talking about. Obviously, more expensive cars are harder to sell, so I'm not compare the absolute sales numbers of the TL/TSX against the XTS and CTS. That's not fair. Rather, my point is, when you have two or more entries in a segment, I wouldn't be too surprised if the combined figures are better than others that are on their own.
TSX turning circle is 36.4 feet. while TL is at 39 feet and RLX at 40 feet.
profits will go further down the drain with Genesis brand.
As if Honda/Acura wasn't having their own problems.
Honda Motor Co., Ltd. is set to report first-quarter (ended Jun 30, 2016) fiscal 2017 results on Aug 2. In the last quarter, the company had posted a negative earnings surprise of 193.88%.
Honda is witnessing declining sales volume in its domestic market, Japan. Moreover, higher selling, general and administrative, and research and development expenses are affecting the company’s operating income. Further, Honda is being affected by frequent recalls to fix faulty Takata airbags.
Honda reported 138,715 vehicles sold last month, a year-over-year increase of 3.2% and below analyst projections of 9.4% growth. Light trucks gained 2.2% on sales of 68,780 units. Honda car sales overall rose 7.7% to 65,894 units, and its Accord family sedan grew 4.8% to 28,806 cars. But Acura sales plunged 26.9% to 11,352 units in June. Shares fell 0.8% Friday.
Honda Motor Co. said on Wednesday that its brand image in Japan had been tarnished by a series of recalls over quality issues related to its Fit model and this was weighing on domestic sales.
Since late 2013, Honda has conducted numerous recalls of its Fit cars, a sub compact model with ample cargo space which was once the automaker's best-selling domestic model, mainly to fix issues related to the vehicle's programming and its engine.
"We had a period of ongoing recalls of the Fit in the past two years or so which had a negative impact on the brand's image," Honda's chief operating officer for Japan operations Kimiyoshi Teratani said.
He said domestic sales of the model, which is available in other markets around the world, had slumped since the recall, while the ongoing withdrawal of millions of vehicles over potentially faulty air bags made by Takata Corp had "dealt another blow" to the company.
Overall, Honda's annual domestic vehicle sales fell 12.2 percent to 668,000 in the year ended March and the automaker expects sales for the current year to drop nearly 3 percent.
Domestic sales comprised about 14 percent of the automaker's global sales last year.
As if Honda/Acura wasn't having their own problems.
I know Honda problems with quality issues and there r&d expenses but it has nothing to do with building factories at wrong place or building too many wrong products. H/K problem is building factories and products that does not match what consumer wants. Honda has Ridgeling and new CRV coming
I know Honda problems with quality issues and there r&d expenses but it has nothing to do with building factories at wrong place or building too many wrong products. H/K problem is building factories and products that does not match what consumer wants. Honda has Ridgeling and new CRV coming
Honda Sets New Car and Truck Sales Records as American Honda Reports July Sales
Aug 2, 2016 - TORRANCE, Calif.
American Honda sets new all-time record for total truck sales and a July record for total vehicle sales
Honda Division truck sales reach an all-time monthly high with 68,518 sold, an increase of 12.2 percent
Honda CR-V shatters all-time monthly record on sales of 36,017, a 13.3 percent increase
Honda Civic sets new July record; joined by the Accord with sales of over 31,000 units
New 2017 MDX and NSX deliveries boost Acura in July
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported July sales of 152,799 Honda and Acura vehicles, a 4.4 percent gain over last July and a new July record. Total American Honda truck sales set a new all-time monthly record of 77,740 sales to jump 10.1 percent. The Honda Division set a new July total vehicle sales record, rising 5.9 percent on sales of 139,125, while Honda trucks set an all-time monthly record with a 12.2 percent increase on sales of 68,518 vehicles. Honda car sales were up 0.4 percent for the month, netting 70,607 sales. The Acura Division, though gaining momentum with the launch of key new models, posted July sales of 13,674, a decrease of 8.3 percent versus last year.
Honda
With strong retail customer demand driving Honda's record U.S. production in the first half of 2016, Honda sales posted another record in July with continued strong demand for both cars and trucks. CR-V shattered its all-time sales record while the new Ridgeline pickup had a strong first full month of sales even as production continues to ramp up. Pilot and HR-V also were up as Honda trucks set a new all-time sales mark for the month. The new Civic continued its remarkable run with another record month in July.
CR-V sales rose to an all-time monthly record of 36,017 sales in July, an increase of 13.3 percent over last year
The Honda Civic broke a July sales record set in 2013, rising 5.8 percent on sales of 32,952 units
Accord sales again topped 30,000 units, keeping sales of Honda's three core models on track to top 1,000,000 units for the fourth consecutive year
Increases for both Fit and HR-V topped 25 percent in July while Pilot gained 8 percent
"The strong cadence of new Honda products we continue to bring to market has created extraordinary retail demand that is unprecedented in our history," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "With the Civic Hatchback on the way along with our step-by-step effort to fortify our truck business, we will continue to grow our sales through individual car buyers."
Acura
The Acura brand's renewed commitment to Precision Crafted Performance continues to take shape in dealer showrooms with the first deliveries of the all-new Acura NSX and the refreshed 2017 Acura MDX – the first model to reflect the new design direction that debuted with the Acura Precision Concept. On the market just five weeks, the newly-refreshed 2017 MDX posted strong sales of 4,902 units in July despite inventory issues related to the ramp-up of production. The NSX has brought high energy and excitement to Acura showrooms as the world's first customers of NSX begin to take delivery of the only supercar made in America."
The first deliveries of the all-new Acura NSX are electrifying Acura showrooms and generating tremendous excitement for all Acura customers," said John Mendel, executive vice president of American Honda. "Showcasing the Acura brand's new design direction, the 2017 MDX is the next step in our commitment to deliver on Precision Crafted Performance."
Doesn't change the fact that Honda/Acura has built and continues to build "products that does not match what consumer wants"
. . . . because they were "products that does not match what consumer wants"
Honda Insight/City/Fit/CRZ developed for asian markets that's why most of them came with 1.3 to 1.5L engine. They not primary for North American market. That City is hugely successful sedan.
Honda Insight/City/Fit/CRZ developed for asian markets that's why most of them came with 1.3 to 1.5L engine. They not primary for North American market. That City is hugely successful sedan.
What relevance do sales in Asian markets have in this conversation?
If you look at the interior dimensions, the 2G TSX, 4G TL, and 2G RL are quite similar:
Front Head Room: 38.4" vs 37.6" vs 38.4"
Front Leg Room: 42.5" vs 42.4 vs 42.3"
Front Hip Room: 55.7" vs 55.6" vs 55.1"
Front Shoulder Room: 58.2" vs 57.8" vs 58.5"
Rear Head Room: 36.7" vs 37.0" vs 37.2"
Rear Leg Room: 36.2" vs 34.3 vs 36.3"
Rear Hip Room: 54.8" vs 54.2" vs 54"
Rear Shoulder Room: 56.2" vs 56.1" vs 56.1"
Don't know about you, but based on these numbers, I don't think I can say the TL is noticeably bigger than the TSX, and that the TL and RL are similar in size. I'd say, these 3 cars are pretty damn close in terms of size. For the TL, a lot of the extra exterior length is from the relatively pointy beak and rear end.
Going by interior dimensions can be misleading - not unusual for a car with greater listed rear passenger leg room to actually have less.
Best thing is to set driver's seat at one's position and then sit in the back seat and do same w/ another car and compare.
Going simply by wheelbase is also a better - as it is an indicator of how much room there is for the passenger compartment.
TSX - 106.5"
TL - 109.3"
RL - 110.2"
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
The problem is all it was is a link to a gm authority website forum (which is full of malware). I happened to look at the August Motor Trend print magazine (while waiting for a prescription) and although I didn't read every word looked through the news section pretty well in the front and only Honda article (Honda Ridgeline test drive) in that issue. Nothing was said in there about the Civic losing money. Didn't see it on the online Motor Trend as well. So for now, I call on that poster on the gmauthority website unless someone can post something from MT itself.
Do you think the poster on GMI just made it up?
It's for real, I saw it in the print edition of MT.
profits will go further down the drain with Genesis brand.
Of course more $$ will have to spent on R&D as Hyundai expands the Genesis lineup, but as they say, can't make $$ if you don't spend it.
For July, in its 1st month (and not a full month) of sales in Korea, the Genesis G80 did 3,200 in sales.
And in May, the Genesis and G90/EQ900, together, posted sales of 5,789 units in Korea.
How many Legends do you figure Honda sold in Japan this year?
Sorry, but Genesis is making $$ for Hyundai - and that will only increase as the lineup gets expanded.
Originally Posted by AZuser
As if Honda/Acura wasn't having their own problems.
Troll just ignores stuff like that as it doesn't conform to his deluded world.
And as I had pointed out before, those record profits for Japanese automakers had a lot to w/ the then favorable currency exchange rates (which troll disregarded and later poo-poo'd after I had brought it up).
But now the shoe is on the other foot.
Japan's automakers scramble to counter strong yen after $5 billion hit
August 5, 2016 @ 12:01 am Craig Trudell
Yuki Hagiwara
TOKYO -- Japan’s auto industry is going back to tried-and-tested plays to ease the pain of a strong yen as Toyota Motor Corp.’s prediction for a 37 percent plunge in earnings threatens to end the era of record profits.
A resurgent yen wiped almost half a trillion yen ($5 billion) off the operating income of Japan’s seven automakers in the first quarter, with Toyota alone taking a 235 billion yen hit. The industry, which accounts for about one in 10 jobs in Japan, is responding by cutting costs, dialing back expenses and turning to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe for help.
Japan’s automaker association asked Abe’s reshuffled cabinet this week to take action in response to seesawing foreign exchange markets, Britain’s decision to leave the European Union and a slowdown in emerging markets.
Without the tailwinds of a weak yen boosting export profits, cost-cutting measures by Toyota such as shutting down elevators, bathroom hand driers and air conditioning may prove futile.“
Carmakers including Toyota, Nissan and Honda are the driving force for Japan’s GDP,” Koji Endo, a Tokyo-based analyst with SBI Securities Co., said by phone. “The Japanese economy depends on the car industry a lot, so they have strong bargaining power with the Abe administration.”
On Thursday, Toyota lowered its fiscal-year profit forecast to 1.45 trillion yen for the 12 months ending in March, down from the 1.5 trillion yen projection made in May. The strong yen is cutting earnings from vehicles sold outside Japan, and U.S. consumers are buying fewer Camry, Corolla and Prius cars, as cheap gasoline fuels greater demand for trucks.
Toyota’s souring outlook for profit this year is almost entirely due to changes in foreign-exchange rates, which the company now estimates will slash operating income by 1.12 trillion yen. That’s more than what Honda Motor Co. and Subaru-owner Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. earned in the last fiscal year combined.
And cost cutting by Honda.
Like Toyota, Honda hasn’t stood pat waiting for Abe to act. Japan’s third-largest automaker said cost reductions contributed 45.7 billion yen to operating profit in the first quarter. The manufacturer plans to cut capital expenditure by 14 percent and research-and-development spending by more than 4 percent this fiscal year.
I know Honda problems with quality issues and there r&d expenses but it has nothing to do with building factories at wrong place or building too many wrong products. H/K problem is building factories and products that does not match what consumer wants. Honda has Ridgeling and new CRV coming
What products did H/K build that didn't pan out?
Pretty much only one was the Elantra coupe (which was stupid to have done) and the Hyundai version of the old Kia minivan.
And H/K have at least 6 new crossovers coming, probably more, and 1 pick-up.
And as I had stated before, H/K have increased supply of the Santa Fe, Tucson and Sportage and sales of those have increase significantly (for the Tucson and Sportage - almost double).
^ The CL was also for the NA market, as was the SLX and let's not forget the embarrassment that was the Acura CSX for Canada.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
Honda rarely make comments on magazine issues unless it is some safety.
MT stated that it was from a reliable source - not an official statement from Honda.
This 1.5T engine/CVT from Honda is used in China (Honda sells are exploding) and Japan. so very little chance that Honda is losing money on Civic.
Margins on cars, esp. compacts are slim these days and new model releases no longer get the pricing premium - and margins in China suck even more as foreign automakers have to compete w/ the rapidly improving domestic brands and then split the profits w/ their JV partner.
Honda does not build excess factories at wrong places. there is little incentive for volumes. that's why they strictly against fleet sales.
The American consumer is notorious for buying on price - so even Honda has to offer pricing that isn't out of wack from the competition and the days of getting a premium on a new model launch are over (unless it's something sexier than a Civic).
Honda doesn't have a corporate fleet program, but that doesn't mean that its dealers can't sell to fleet (a decent # of the previous gen Civic found their way to the rental lot).
Honda product is always premium over Nissan/Toyota.
See above.
There were big incentives on the prior Civic, as well as the prior gen Pilot.
And buyers were getting deals on the '16MY Odyssey back in May.
Honda is clearing out the 2016 Odyssey to make room for the newly redesigned 2017 Odyssey (different body style).
They are throwing some intense incentives on them!
There is a $1000 dealer cash on LX, SE and EX
There is $1250 on EX-L, EX-L-Res, Touring, and touring elite.
There is $750 Honda dream car garage
There is a $1000 Loyalty rebate
And on top of this, there is a $1000 - $1200 Dealer incentive.
Detailed discounts available are listed here [[url=http://slickdeals.net/?lno=1&trd=here&pv=&au=&sdtid=8750703&sdop=1&sdpid =85022547&sdfid=9&mon=1&ref=1&u2=http%3A%2F%2Ftell methebest.com%2Fhonda.html]tellmethebest.com]
We just took home a 2016 Odyssey LX for a little over $25,000 (took 3 hours of negotiations!), with 0.9% finance for 60 months. You can't even get a 2 year old used Odyssey for that kind of money.
Yen impact more Toyota/Nissan where most of SUVs and Lexus/Infiniti are from Japan.
You still know jack about the impact of currency valuations.
Honda HRV command much higher price than Sentra/Corrolla/Forte and that is main product from Mexico.
Um, of course - a crossover will command higher prices and I was talking about sedans like the Sentra - and not crossovers.
Honda charges BMW/Lexus kind of prices for its vehicles in EU. it cant be called mainstream brand.
LMAO!!! Gee, the crap that you believe and spew.
Honda sells the Jazz/Fit, body-style variations of the Euro Civc, the HR-V and the CR-V in the UK.
Do you really think any of them compete with a comparable BMW on price?
Jazz - 13.5
Civic - 18.4
HRV - 18.5
CRV - 22.8
An X1 starts at 27.4 and the X3 at 34 in the UK - not even close to the price pf the HRV and CRV.
SLX was Isuzu rebadge, CL and CSX are built form corresponding Accord and Civic platforms. Honda very rarely built anything from ground up for NA market. ZDX is MDX.
since your stupid you still cant understand the Honda business model despite explaining to you several times.
You have no understanding of doing comparison. Honda Civic Euro is built on Honda City platform with torision beam suspension. once similarly equipped and with 4 year maintaince than the prices are very similar.
Going by interior dimensions can be misleading - not unusual for a car with greater listed rear passenger leg room to actually have less.
Best thing is to set driver's seat at one's position and then sit in the back seat and do same w/ another car and compare.
Going simply by wheelbase is also a better - as it is an indicator of how much room there is for the passenger compartment.
TSX - 106.5"
TL - 109.3"
RL - 110.2"
True, not unusual for a car with greater listed rear passenger leg room to actually have less. OTOH, it's also not uncommon for cars with less wheelbase to have more practical passenger space (think of the Honda Fit vs its competitors in the past).
As far as I know, those published interior dimensions are all set. I doubt they will move the seats around when the move around to measure each dimension. That would be pretty dumb.
I looked through 8/2016 print of MT (while waiting for a prescription for ~10 minutes) and never saw it.
It was also not online MT either.
MT doesn't put everything in its print edition online.
What can I tell you - I saw it (but might have been the July edition as it was a while ago) and someone on GMI also saw it.
Originally Posted by iforyou
True, not unusual for a car with greater listed rear passenger leg room to actually have less. OTOH, it's also not uncommon for cars with less wheelbase to have more practical passenger space (think of the Honda Fit vs its competitors in the past).
The Fit might have had more total space due to total length and/or roofline/rear hatch (more of a box shape and not as sloping as others).
Rear passenger seats have to be positioned a certain way with the rear wheel wells - so unlikely that a vehicle with a shorter wheelbase will have more total passenger legroom.
Originally Posted by iforyou
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
Well, while the TL was more compared to the TSX in price, when it came to rear passenger room, it was the comparison of the TL to the RL/RLX that was oft mentioned w/ the reasoning for poor RL/RLX sales being that the TL offered almost as much rear passenger room for a significantly lower price.
So what?
Just shows that Honda didn't a model that met market demand so they had to take the quick/cheap route and do a rebadge (with Isuzu no less; same with the Passport).
CL and CSX are built form corresponding Accord and Civic platforms.
So? Still failed.
Honda very rarely built anything from ground up for NA market. ZDX is MDX.
You're really pulling at strings here - which is so typical.
Automakers don't develop a platform for each model (would be financially disastrous) - but instead, use a platform to underpin numerous models (even more so today).
Think how many models BMW have based on the basic platform underpinning the previous 7 Series (and that's not even counting Rolls).
Point still stands that the ZDX and Crosstour were developed with the US market in mind (Honda saw what BMW was doing w/ the X6 and decided that they wanted some of that action).
Honda sales in Japan for this size segment is minimal. The ZDX and Crosstour were developed primarily for the NA market.
And let's not forget another failed Honda model - the Element.
since your stupid you still cant understand the Honda business model despite explaining to you several times.
There you go again - using ad hominem attacks (which, btw, is much more an adept description of you - as most here would attest) when you have nothing.
I'm well aware of Honda's business model (more than you, apparently, since I've had to correct you numerous times when it has come to Honda/Acura), but as usual, you deflect from the issue at hand - which is Honda/Acura models that have FAILED in the marketplace - which led to them being discontinued.
So - it doesn't matter if they were developed for the Japanese market (untrue for many) as you claim or if they used existing platforms and powertrains.
Doesn't change the fact that they failed in the marketplace (as usual, you try to deflect and come up with tangential excuses which is the modus operandi of a TROLL).
As for Honda/Acura business model - I'm well aware that Honda decided to save on R&D outlay for Acura and hence has stuck to a (transverse) FWD-based lineup.
While this saves Honda $$ in R&D costs, it also prevents them from competing head to head against the Germans and is the reason (among other things) why they price their sedans one segment down in price (and why the price-point of the Acura sedan lineup actually went down with the ILX and TSX).
There is nothing wrong with that as there definitely is a market for lower-cost, luxury sedans (and other bodystyles) as seen with Lincoln, Buick, certain Lexus and Cadillac models and the semi-resurgence of Volvo.
But while with that strategy comes lower R&D outlay, also means being able to command lower prices and hence having lower ATP.
And all your talk about Hyundai losing $$ with its RWD development for Genesis is just that - talk.
Hyundai had to double the planned production for the EQ900/G90 just to meet demand and not let those who had pre-ordered wait for almost a year - and in Korea, alone, the Genesis/G80 and EQ900 are on track to sell over 60k.
According to Hyundai USA head, Zuchowski, Genesis will be profitable in the US at sales below 100k.
“If we’re extremely successful in the next 5-year period of time, we’ll go from selling 30,000 Genesis (vehicles) to maybe 90,000. We’re structured to make money and generate growth at sub-100,000 (annual volume),” Dave Zuchowski, CEO-Hyundai Motor America, tells media here at a ’17 Genesis G90 preview.
Considering that the Genesis sedan is on track to sell around 30k in the US this year, 90k (if not 100k) should be doable for Genesis with a 6 vehicle lineup.
And the development cost of RWD will be further recouped with what Kia is doing in that area - the upcoming production version of the GT, the next gen K900 and likely at least one crossover.
While this saves Honda $$ in R&D costs, it also prevents them from competing head to head against the Germans and is the reason (among other things) why they price their sedans one segment down in price (and why the price-point of the Acura sedan lineup actually went down with the ILX and TSX).
There is nothing wrong with that as there definitely is a market for lower-cost, luxury sedans (and other bodystyles) as seen with Lincoln, Buick, certain Lexus and Cadillac models and the semi-resurgence of Volvo
You are writing even more non sense. Acura/Honda has rock solid resale values with no free maintaince and certified vehicle sales warranty is not transferrable. Acura/Honda does not do fleet sales. The product is standardized. minimum online customization.
Germanic crap is subsidized leases, falling resale values, over expensive dealership because too many loaners cars and service advisers are needed to run a service center due to breakdowns..
The Fit might have had more total space due to total length and/or roofline/rear hatch (more of a box shape and not as sloping as others).
Rear passenger seats have to be positioned a certain way with the rear wheel wells - so unlikely that a vehicle with a shorter wheelbase will have more total passenger legroom.
Well, while the TL was more compared to the TSX in price, when it came to rear passenger room, it was the comparison of the TL to the RL/RLX that was oft mentioned w/ the reasoning for poor RL/RLX sales being that the TL offered almost as much rear passenger room for a significantly lower price.
Yes, unlikely, but not impossible too and the numbers show.
Hence I brought up some solid numbers for comparison
You are writing even more non sense. Acura/Honda has rock solid resale values with no free maintaince and certified vehicle sales warranty is not transferrable. Acura/Honda does not do fleet sales. The product is standardized. minimum online customization.
Why don't you actually reply to the stuff I had stated, but then again, you can't even get what I had stated straight (no surprise).
I'm well aware Honda/Acura doesn't do fleet sales at the corporate level, but the dealerships are free to sell to fleet.
“Honda is the retail leader” has long been a mantra for that company’s boosters, one that is repeated by a fair number of autojournos. It’s a well-known fact that Honda has no corporate fleet sales department, in contrast to every other mass-market auto company in America. Even so, Honda products have a habit still show up in a variety of fleets. The vehicle-sales sites of several rental car companies have plenty of Hondas for sale. As of this writing, Enterprise Car Sales lists 200 former rental Hondas for purchase. The majority of these are Accords, with Civics not too far behind, and models from the entire rest of the range sprinkled in. For those feeling like something a little fancier, 22 Acuras are also available. Hertz also has hundreds of Hondas available, mostly 2012 Civics and a few Accords. Avis has no Honda products listed; nor does Budget.
It’s also worth noting that there are far fewer Hondas available for sale than, say, Chevrolets, Chryslers, or Fords. However, those makes include substantial numbers of trucks and commercial vans that Honda doesn’t offer. Honda has openly partnered with Zipcar to put hybrids in its fleet. Unfortunately, major fleet vehicle remarketing company Manheim doesn’t provide data on sales to anyone but licensed auto dealers, so I wasn’t able to scan their listed inventory for Hondas. However, salvage-auction company IAAI does provide listings of insurance-totaled Hondas, albeit ones that are difficult to sort and frequently incomplete. Even so, a casual scan through the listings reveals a surprising number of totaled-out Accords and Civics that had titles held by rental car companies or otherwise appear to have been former rentals. So clearly, a decent number of Honda products are winding up in America’s rental fleets. Many of the B&B have offered anecdotes about rental Hondas, but it’s nice to have a few solid numbers to go by. Maybe a reader with Manheim access could help flesh out the data.
*********Corporate fleet sales are always difficult to estimate, but anyone who’s lived in Central Ohio as long as I have can tell you that Honda products are popular choices for local businesses. The reliability and resale records of the Accord, Civic, and Odyssey no doubt attracts many operators looking to maximize their ROI. And although Honda has no corporate-level program for direct fleet sales, there are plenty Honda dealers who operate their own. Lindsay Honda of Columbus explains that “With 14 acres of more than 700 Honda’s in inventory, Lindsay Honda can manage your order and pricing cost effectively, thus passing the savings to you.” Similarly, Don Carlton Honda of Tulsa promises customers “the benefit and tremendous value of our Honda Fleet Pricing while making the process of buying a new Honda vehicle simple and stress-free,” with a website specifically dedicated to facilitating fleet purchases. In fact, it’s difficult to find a high-volume Honda dealer that doesn’t operate some kind of fleet program. And virtually all of these programs tout “preferred fleet pricing” and volume discounts for buyers, a seeming contradiction to Honda’s notorious stinginess with incentives. If you’re looking to buy ten Hondas for your fleet, there’s no shortage of dealers willing to cut you a discount, and take care of your service needs afterwards. But these dealers seem to be ignored or downplayed by Honda corporate, which steadfastly maintains that fleet sales are a vanishing percentage of Honda’s business. A press release from Honda on July 2 about rising sales crowed that “These solid results further showcase Honda’s pure, market-driven momentum achieved by customers choosing Honda vehicles one at a time rather than relying on fleet sales to drive volume.” The mantra about retail sales is clearly a big part of Honda’s marketing schtick. It seems that nobody has thought to ask the dealer body what they think about becoming Honda’s default fleet sales program, a role they may not appreciate. I can’t help but be reminded of an earlier episode in Honda’s corporate history where dealers took it on the chin.
Car-share companies like ZipCar offer the Civic, CR-V and Fit.
Germanic crap is subsidized leases, falling resale values, over expensive dealership because too many loaners cars and service advisers are needed to run a service center due to breakdowns.
Yeah, that Germanic crap which command a hefty price premium over Acura.
Gee, why does Acura have its sedans slotted one segment down in price? And where is that $100-150k flagship sedan?
Car-share companies like ZipCar offer the Civic, CR-V and Fit.
Offcourse business buys Honda as they more reliable and real world efficiency better but it does not mean Honda is promoting manufacture incentives for such dealings. its all depend on local dealer business in the community.
Yeah, that Germanic crap which command a hefty price premium over Acura.
Gee, why does Acura have its sedans slotted one segment down in price? And where is that $100-150k flagship sedan?
do you even understand what you write. The so called price premium is due to different content. like runflat tires, free maintaince, long wheel base.
how much difference is between new Audi A4 and RLX in wheel base?. RLX is still using 6speed auto with non turbo engine that need old timing belt. than there is whole issue of customization.
Honda can create flagship based on NSX technology but why It should?.
do you even understand what you write. The so called price premium is due to different content. Like runflat tires, free maintaince, long wheel base.
How much difference is between new audi a4 and rlx in wheel base?. Rlx is still using 6speed auto with non turbo engine that need old timing belt. Than there is whole issue of customization.
Honda can create flagship based on nsx technology but why it should?.
Its also the reason they wont be considered seriously in that segment or ever have a real competitor for it. They are AFRAID to jump into that market, they dont know how to.
Offcourse business buys Honda as they more reliable and real world efficiency better but it does not mean Honda is promoting manufacture incentives for such dealings. its all depend on local dealer business in the community.
do you even understand what you write. The so called price premium is due to different content. like runflat tires, free maintaince, long wheel base.
how much difference is between new Audi A4 and RLX in wheel base?. RLX is still using 6speed auto with non turbo engine that need old timing belt. than there is whole issue of customization.
Honda can create flagship based on NSX technology but why It should?.
Really? so you are saying if BMW changes its tires, no more free maintenance and same wheel base is Honda, then their prices will be the same?
07-27-2016, 08:29 AM
on that poster on the gmauthority website unless someone can post something from MT itself.
I saw it, as well.
and the numbers show.
42.3 "42.3 "42.5 "
