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NBA: 2010 Off-Season and Draft Discussion Thread

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Old 07-14-2010, 06:13 PM
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Some Heat info from their best writer IMO Ira winderman. Looks like juwan is coming too.

So why isn’t this all moving faster?

Why are we hearing Mike Miller is locked up? Juwan Howard is on the verge?

And yet, nothing (at least as of this posting).

Here’s why:


Juwan Howard: Delivered, just not signed and sealed.
Free agency is a process, one that has to follow a well-scripted order.

The last time the Heat attempted anything this grand, the order seemingly got messed up, and Juwan Howard was lost.

Loose lips, some will tell you, also factored into that mess.

So here’s the deal:

Michael Beasley first must officially become a member of the Timberwolves, thereby clearing needed Heat cap space. His initial Minnesota media session is scheduled for Thursday.
Mike Miller then can be signed into that space.
Then, and only then, once the Heat reaches the 2010-11 salary cap, can the Heat begin its flow of minimum-scale salaries above the cap.
That’s when Juwan Howard will become official. And Zydrunas Ilgauskas.
And that’s when the likes of Keyon Dooling, Carlos Arroyo, Jamaal Magloire and, who knows, maybe even Tracy McGrady can hop aboard.
That also is when the Heat can begin negotiating a new deal with Joel Anthony, the only of the Heat’s 2009-10 players to maintain his Bird Rights.
And then that deal will happen, too.
Yes, there still certainly are plenty of moving parts.

But if Pat Riley and his crack staff could figure out how to make Wade-Bosh-’Bron work, they’re certainly qualified to handle this end game.

Training camp is still 2 1/2 months away. There is no rush.
Old 07-14-2010, 10:53 PM
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Goddammit.

Cavs are going to SUCK forever (e.g. 5 years+). They have no choice but to gut the team and totally rebuild through the draft at this point...no one wants to play for them, either, as the trading situation is grim right now. I wonder if it's the end of the franchise? I am so depressed about the Cavs. There just seems to be absolutely no hope. Case in point from Brian Windhorst, PD sports reporter:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...ge=Cavs-100714

Cavs still sifting through rubble
By Brian Windhorst
Special to ESPN.com
Archive

LAS VEGAS -- Southern Nevada is hot, flat and crowded with the NBA at this time of year. For the Cleveland Cavaliers, there's no place to hide.

As the team formerly known as a championship contender slips from the shock stage to acceptance of what happened last week, it is having to do it publicly and painfully in the glare of attention at the Las Vegas Summer League.

In the midst of trying to pick up the pieces, the Cavs are suddenly staring at one of the league's toughest conundrums, one that nearly every franchise faces once a decade or so. How can they rebuild? How should they rebuild? How can they sell the rebuilding process?

The questions are unpleasant and the answers are complicated for reasons the Cavs can't control and reasons they can.

The anger stage of LeBron James' departure was no doubt the sharpest in Cleveland.

Even before the first batch of burning James jerseys had cooled or the giant Nike Witness mural started to come down, team owner Dan Gilbert's stinging open letter to fans hit the media. The attack of James' character in the hours after he announced his intention to sign with the Miami Heat was the most prolific moment.

But the true low point for the team was hearing and then reading about how James was actively recruiting free agents for his new team : putting the full-court press on friend Mike Miller, meeting Derek Fisher at the airport and calling up to tug Mr. Cavalier Zydrunas Ilgauskas to South Beach.

The Cavs had privately been disappointed over the last two years about the lack of intensity James put into their free-agent processes, last year feeling like they lost out on Trevor Ariza because James refused to commit to the future when Ariza called to ask him about it. In fairness, James was just telling free agents the truth even if it was costly to his team in the short run.

Then there was waiting the eight days for James to announce his plans. As information has slipped out, it now seems James wasn't wrestling with the decision as much as he was in talks with a production company and a talent agency about when his primetime special could be scheduled.

The Cavs spent that first week of free agency attempting to set up plans for the team when James re-signed. They were in the mix to sign Miller, they were involved in sign-and-trade talks to add complementary pieces. Yes, there was a backup plan, but it was not in action.The Cavs were moving forward believing James was going to be with them.

And then he was gone.

Eight days into free agency the Cavs suddenly had $12 million in salary-cap space they weren't planning to have. But by then most of the top 15 free agents in the mega class, especially the guy everyone considered No. 1, were committed elsewhere.

Then there was this: "I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER 'KING' WINS ONE."

That wasn't the part of Gilbert's letter that got him in trouble with NBA commissioner David Stern and cost him $100,000. Stern was more upset with the "cowardly betrayal" and "shocking act of disloyalty from our home grown 'chosen one' sends the exact opposite lesson of what we would want our children to learn" lines.

But that was the core reason of why fan groups actually attempted to start campaigns to pay the billionaire's fine for him. His willingness to fire back with confidence won him supporters in the franchise's, and the region's, time of crisis. It was something to cling to and there's reason to believe it -- Gilbert has backed up nearly everything he's promised since buying the team in 2005.

In the unrelenting heat of Vegas, though, reality is here. The Cavs see it as they watch their summer league team attempt to install new coach Byron Scott's running offense, a system for which they don't have the personnel right now. They hear it when they talk to agents about their clients and the troubles recruiting them to what is left of the team. They feel it in the glares of other executives as they know teams see them as desperate.

The Cavs' first attempt at a roster addition came the same day Ilgauskas ended his career in Cleveland by signing with Miami, as they signed Kyle Lowry to an offer sheet. A defensive specialist who would fit in Scott's system, it seemed like a good way to start. Until the Rockets matched the deal roughly 12 hours later.

The truth, whether the team and its fans are prepared to admit it, is the Cavs cannot rebuild quickly or on the fly. They will not be competing with the Heat for the championship this season and more than likely not next season either. After being one of the focus points of the NBA since making the Finals in 2007, the national television games and late postseason runs are done for now.

The first step in this admission was agreeing to a sign-and-trade deal with the Heat for James, giving him the contract he wanted because the four draft picks and the $14.5 million trade exception were badly needed assets. The deal was done by new general manager Chris Grant, who put it together knowing he's got to be more interested in the development of assets and draft picks than winning games right now.

Even as the team looked at its options -- from signing Josh Childress to trading for Al Jefferson -- none seemed to be correct for what was needed. That's a retro-fitting that promises to be painful especially as James racks up his numbers in Florida.

It isn't yet clear if Gilbert is going to be willing to buy into it. His venomous letter and his all-out attempts to win by spending massive amounts on payroll over the last three years being the prime examples.

He's often said that it "costs more to lose than it does to win" in defending his spending. But to win, the Cavs may have to lose for a while and rebuild through the draft and trade market.

Just like the summer's hot sun, there doesn't seem to be any clear way to avoid it.
On the Jesse Jackson thing...
as a black dude, I officially think that Jesse Jackson's statement about "plantations" was retarded. What a MORON and attention whore! This guy is NOT my leader, the President is. How did LeBron leaving become a racial issue? Don't understand.

Last edited by neuronbob; 07-14-2010 at 10:55 PM.
Old 07-15-2010, 07:07 AM
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Bob,

Can you clarify for me please the whole Delonte West screwing Lebron's mom thing? I had never heard about that until like 2 days ago.
Old 07-15-2010, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob

On the Jesse Jackson thing...
as a black dude, I officially think that Jesse Jackson's statement about "plantations" was retarded. What a MORON and attention whore! This guy is NOT my leader, the President is. How did LeBron leaving become a racial issue? Don't understand.
Wait...you're black?
Old 07-15-2010, 08:45 AM
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
Bob,

Can you clarify for me please the whole Delonte West screwing Lebron's mom thing? I had never heard about that until like 2 days ago.
All a rumor, was vehemently denied by LeBron's camp. The rumor was published right before the playoffs and was used by some as an excuse to cover LeBron's lackluster play against the Celtics.

As is usual in these situations, we will never know the truth until the tell-all books appear.


Originally Posted by CocheseUGA
Wait...you're black?
Yup, afraid so. I thought it was common knowledge since I've been here so long. Guess not . Doesn't diminish my point that I thought Jesse Jackson was being a jackass in this situation.
Old 07-15-2010, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
Bob,

Can you clarify for me please the whole Delonte West screwing Lebron's mom thing? I had never heard about that until like 2 days ago.
That story's 2 or 3 month's old. Supposedly Delonte (and maybe some other Cavs players) were hooking up with Gloria James for some time and Lebron just found out during the playoffs and that's why he sucked the last three games vs. the Celts. Not sure about that though.
There was even a report that Lebron walked in on West and his mom in a hotel room after partying one night in Boston.

Like Bob said, all rumors.

Last edited by paz840; 07-15-2010 at 10:16 AM.
Old 07-15-2010, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob
Yup, afraid so. I thought it was common knowledge since I've been here so long. Guess not . Doesn't diminish my point that I thought Jesse Jackson was being a jackass in this situation.
It was a Gene Wilder joke.
Old 07-15-2010, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CocheseUGA
It was a Gene Wilder joke.
neuronbob is super-slow today. DUH.
Old 07-15-2010, 12:32 PM
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And in other news the member neuronbob has been demoted from Mega Moderator.
Old 07-15-2010, 07:33 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7xlzLOZH5c
Old 07-15-2010, 07:44 PM
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Magic match Chicago's offer to keep Redick just like I thought.
Old 07-16-2010, 07:33 AM
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I don't think anyone mentioned Al Jefferson getting traded to Utah to replace Boozer. I know Al put up great stats in Minny when healthy. Is this good for Utah? Also Michael Beasley is the highest paid player in Minnesota.
Old 07-16-2010, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by clpassenubye
Magic match Chicago's offer to keep Redick just like I thought.
Dang it!

Link? I don't see the announcement anywhere online...

Last edited by Yumcha; 07-16-2010 at 10:08 AM.
Old 07-16-2010, 10:27 AM
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^

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-magic-redick
Old 07-16-2010, 10:32 AM
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Dang it. Well, let's see who Da Bulls go after now.



Although, Rose has apparently worked religiously on his 3-pointer this off-season. He may have a new weapon in his arsenal!
Old 07-16-2010, 12:32 PM
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What 39 yr old Penny Hardaway who hasn't played since 2007 possibly coming back and signing with the Heat? That's ridiculous.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...the-miami-heat
Old 07-16-2010, 01:45 PM
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in 5 years, there's going to be about 5 or so teams loaded with superstars and 25 struggling, garbage teams
Old 07-16-2010, 01:48 PM
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Penny alraedy couldn't make our team a few years ago. I have heard of T-Mac. Matt Barnes just pulled himself off of our list. PG is next but not AI.
Old 07-16-2010, 01:56 PM
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Bulls Sign Brewer...

I don't know much about Ronnie Brewer...Good signing, folks?

Story here: http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=5386506
Old 07-16-2010, 01:57 PM
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Brewer's a good defensive player. i like that move

Last edited by SG81; 07-16-2010 at 02:02 PM.
Old 07-16-2010, 01:59 PM
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How big of a downgrade is Brewer compared to Redick...?
Old 07-16-2010, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by clpassenubye
What 39 yr old Penny Hardaway who hasn't played since 2007 possibly coming back and signing with the Heat? That's ridiculous.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...the-miami-heat
That's just stupid.
Old 07-16-2010, 04:18 PM
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Wow. Brewer, Boozer and Korver. They should snag DWill and Kirilenko while they're at it.
Old 07-16-2010, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SG81
in 5 years, there's going to be about 5 or so teams loaded with superstars and 25 struggling, garbage teams
If that type of thing becomes a trend I guarantee the NBA will make some kind of rule against or else everyone will lose interest.
Old 07-16-2010, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
Penny alraedy couldn't make our team a few years ago. I have heard of T-Mac. Matt Barnes just pulled himself off of our list. PG is next but not AI.
T-Mac wants more money than the Heat can offer he's working out with the Clippers next week.
Old 07-17-2010, 10:57 AM
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Yeah anyone that wants to come will get minimum. We're officially capped out with Miller and UD signed. Z and Juwan coming in and I hear Magloire is also staying as is Joel Anthony. Now they're saying a PG and another swingman.
Old 07-17-2010, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Rounder
http://news.yahoo.com/s//newsnet5/20...ewsnet5_ts3110

WOW wtf! why can't stuff like this happen to me?

Lady buys a lebron pendant for $5 at a yard sale and it's worth ~ $10K because the diamonds are real.

Police: Ohio woman a suspect in stolen LeBron pendant case


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/O...nt-case-071610

In my opinion if I was Lebron's handlers I would have left this alone. Getting a $10,000 pendant back the way they went about it is not worth $1,000,000in bad press especially now since his rep has taken a huge hit over the last week.
Old 07-17-2010, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by clpassenubye
If that type of thing becomes a trend I guarantee the NBA will make some kind of rule against or else everyone will lose interest.
I totally agree. Too few competitive teams (and these would be in the large markets), stuffed with superstars, would be very bad for the NBA as fans in the small markets would just say "f" it to basketball. I can see this happening easily in Cleveland, where people didn't bother with basketball from the mid-90s until LeBron came along. We had a perennial contender of a team from the late 80's to the early 90's, but they still didn't fill the stands like LeBron did. Folks here are already turning to the Browns for relief as it appears the Cavs (though doing well in Summer League games) are likely to be a 30-game team this season.
Old 07-17-2010, 08:21 PM
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...eeagency071610

really interesting and long article about legone.
Old 07-17-2010, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wasupdog
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...eeagency071610

really interesting and long article about legone.
Very interesting and what I take from reading this is that Lebron is a total spoiled brat enabled by a bunch of yes men. The Cavaliers enabled him too and Gilbert eluded to that in his letter saying they let him get away with a lot. Knowing that Gilbert is as much to blame because he should have done something about it along time ago or he should have been resigned to losing Lebron from the beginning and not been surprised when it happened. Lebron is a good player but as good as he is as a player I think he is as dumb as a person and this picture has become clearer and clearer thru recent events. Only time will tell but so far Lebron is more Dominique Wilkins than Michael Jordan and now that he has resorted to being a part of this superteam project he has certainly diminished his brand and reputation.
Old 07-17-2010, 10:58 PM
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i still think lebron will be one of the greats by the time he is done no matter what, but i think he's just a spoiled dumbass kid. i think he's more like magic than dominique. he's kind of like a perfect "1b" type of player because his long range shooting isn't great but he has great passing skills and court vision so it's not like kobe or mj where you absolutely know they are going to take the last shot even if it's 5-on-1 defense. imo you can stick lebron into any type of team because he's a natural facilitator.

i guess jerry reinsdorf showed us all up and proved himself right when he tryed to take too much credit for all of the bulls championship teams. just because you might be one of the best players ever doesn't mean you should have critical input on player personnel or have too much power over team management. look at mj's track record as a gm and owner.
Old 07-18-2010, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wasupdog
i still think lebron will be one of the greats by the time he is done no matter what, but i think he's just a spoiled dumbass kid. i think he's more like magic than dominique. he's kind of like a perfect "1b" type of player because his long range shooting isn't great but he has great passing skills and court vision so it's not like kobe or mj where you absolutely know they are going to take the last shot even if it's 5-on-1 defense. imo you can stick lebron into any type of team because he's a natural facilitator.

i guess jerry reinsdorf showed us all up and proved himself right when he tryed to take too much credit for all of the bulls championship teams. just because you might be one of the best players ever doesn't mean you should have critical input on player personnel or have too much power over team management. look at mj's track record as a gm and owner.
I beg to differ Lebron is nothing like Magic. Magic won at evey level and not only that he won consistently in a 12 year career the Lakers were in the Finals 9 times and won five. He took over game 6 of the 1980 finals when Kareem was injured and scored 42 points had 15 boards and 7 assists to win the NBA championship as a Rookie that was fresh off of an NCAA championship the year before. Keep in mind the NBA is watered down since over the last 12 years its had many players come into the league before they were ready so Lebron is dominating mostly inferior talent. I compared him to Dominique not because there games are similar but more because during his time Dominique was one of the great players that couldn't breakthrough and win a championship and that is how I see Lebron at least for now.
Old 07-18-2010, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by clpassenubye
I beg to differ Lebron is nothing like Magic. Magic won at evey level and not only that he won consistently in a 12 year career the Lakers were in the Finals 9 times and won five. He took over game 6 of the 1980 finals when Kareem was injured and scored 42 points had 15 boards and 7 assists to win the NBA championship as a Rookie that was fresh off of an NCAA championship the year before. Keep in mind the NBA is watered down since over the last 12 years its had many players come into the league before they were ready so Lebron is dominating mostly inferior talent. I compared him to Dominique not because there games are similar but more because during his time Dominique was one of the great players that couldn't breakthrough and win a championship and that is how I see Lebron at least for now.
This. LeBron is no Magic. I do think he will be one of the greatest ever, still, spoiled as he is. I suspect he will break through and be more than Donimique, but if not then I 100% agree with you.

I read the linked article above as well. He was kept out of the press here in Cleveland and here the majority of the public thought that was because he was a nice kid......now it comes out that he was a spoiled brat who was enabled by everyone around him, including his boss. Wow! I mean, wow. Of course, how much of this is sour grapes from his moving and how much is truth is unknown. We won't know for sure until we a) hear from LeBron himself, who is protected from and by the media, and b) the tell-all books are written.
Old 07-18-2010, 03:28 PM
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i don't think lebron is a bad kid but he has no grip on reality - like a lot of athletes i guess. i give him credit because he had so much hype and live up to it and then some. he didn't turn out like yet another felipe lopez who was supposed to be the next big thing and then couldn't even stick in the league.

originally you have mj who invented the concept of the international basketball player. then you had kobe, while he is a prima donna, at least had to put in the work to become a superstar and sat some on the bench for the first year. i feel like by the time lebron came around the entitlement was automatic and the result of it is a player that can hold a tv show that he is leaving his home city and thinks they will love him when he returns on a different team. time will tell...he could be right in a few years. there's really never been a situation like this before.
Old 07-18-2010, 05:40 PM
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I'm very interested to see how Lebron acts or what he'll say when the Heat don't win the next NBA championship. On another note I saw an online article where Paul Pierce said that the Heat are the favorite and that is very smart veteran move because while he knows that Boston can beat the Heat he doesn't want to give anyone extra motivation unlike young and dumb Heat proclaiming they are arguably the best trio to ever play the game and that they will win not 7 but 8 championships.
Old 07-18-2010, 09:24 PM
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The quote from his Airness, MJ:


"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said after finishing tied for 22nd in the American Century Championship golf tournament in Stateline, Nev.

"But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."
Old 07-19-2010, 07:40 AM
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The Heat team is pretty much set. What do you guys think? (I already know the answer )

PG: Chalmers, Arroyo (likely re-signing)
SG: Wade, Miller
SF: James, James Jones (about to re-sign)
PF: Bosh, Haslem, Howard
C: Ilgauskas, Magloire, Joel Anthony (shot blocker), Dexter Pittman (rookie)

I think the last two spots will be a 3rd PG (maybe Jason Williams or a young guy) and another swingman that can shoot 3's.

As for the Magic talk, I was never one to compare players accomplishment wise because of the whole BS of the era, teammates, competition, etc. I did read an interesting article that one Herald writer said that they should use Lebron like Magic in the sense of playing him at PG. He brought up some good points like defensive mismatches like how the Bulls used to do with Ron Harper, Jordan, and Pippen. Miller being good enough to start at SF. And of course his ability to create plays. Plus even if he doesn't drop 35 points or whatever he can still be valuable with racking up assists and rebounds like how Magic did. Again, I'm not saying he's as good as Magic, but you can use him like Magic. You never know he could still get MVPs like Steve Nash did when he was racking up MVPs with a 17PPG average.
Old 07-19-2010, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Yumcha
The quote from his Airness, MJ:
that is why MJ will always be the greatest ever
Old 07-20-2010, 02:24 PM
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Post Bulls Acquire C.J. Watson

Good acquisition...? Don't know too much about him...

Story here: http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=5393968


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