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NBA: 2010 Off-Season and Draft Discussion Thread

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Old 07-12-2010, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BraveDemon


Can't really make that [people from one era is better than todays era] argument since Basketball has evolved significantly from the 80's.

I can almost say with certainty that the level of athleticism required in pro sports today is far greater than was required back in the "good old days."

I.E. Just being a good "jump shooter" isn't enough anymore, now you want the guy who can handle the ball, fast off the dribble and can create his own shots.
See the problem in your argument is that pretty much all of those players listed from the previous Big 3's could do all of that. Sure today's game is faster than the 80's, but IMO all these combos could adapt and still be successful. Don't underestimate the jump shooting ability, it would probably be the difference makers along with their superior defense.

They all had very few holes in their games. How would the Bosh-Wade-Lebron combo beat them?
Old 07-12-2010, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BraveDemon
And ironically, Bosh holds the records for most of Toronto's defensive stats: Most defensive boards, most blocks, most offensive boards, most defensive boards, etc.
That's not saying much. Remember, you are talking about Toronto. Created in 95. Vince Carter probably being their best player to date...
Old 07-12-2010, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by savage
That article is such a joke...



What is this writer smoking? Jordan, Pippen, Rodman would torch these guys. Same for the Lakers and Celtics big 3's from the 80's.

Also all those previous Big 3's thrived in a much more competitive league where more teams actually played defense and could hit jump shots.

Lebron and Wade are great players, but their stats wouldn't be as impressive if they played in those eras...
^^
I agree and besides I don't think they both will have the same stats once they play together because somebody will have to sacrifice their stats for the good of the team.
Old 07-12-2010, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Yumcha
Compared to MJ, Pippen, and Rodman...? Nope...not even close.

Heck, I'd pick Bruce Bowen over them.





And let's be clear, I'm not hating your team. Just don't see them handed the title...yet.
I understand and trust me I'm not handing them the title yet either. Miami is my team but I'm worried about high expectations and no outcome.
Old 07-12-2010, 05:31 PM
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FWIW: LeBron and Wade have great defense as well as pointed out by Fifty a few posts up. Shooting wise they match up similarly - the only biggest disparity(ies) I see is speed and quite possibly strength.

Either way, I'm not about to even start comparing them to my Bulls of the 90s (yes "my Bulls" as I was and am a huge MJ fan). If anything I see the future potential there and despite all the haters of Miami and LeBron, I am actually excited to see if the team can work.

Originally Posted by savage
That's not saying much. Remember, you are talking about Toronto. Created in 95. Vince Carter probably being their best player to date...
Yep. Which is why I said ironically. I think I said a few posts back that Toronto is poop.

Different team with different cast mates and you might get different results. Time will tell.

Last edited by BraveDemon; 07-12-2010 at 05:33 PM.
Old 07-12-2010, 05:39 PM
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Oh lawd....

Jesse Jackson Says LeBron Treated Like A 'Runaway Slave'

While many Cleveland Cavaliers fans expressed their displeasure with NBA star LeBron James' departure for the warmer climate of Miami by burning James' merchandise in the streets, the team's majority owner Dan Gilbert instead took to the Cavs' website, where he hammered out a Comic Sans screed about how Cleveland was "cowardly betrayed" by James, and he guaranteed "that the Cleveland Cavaliers would win an NBA championship before the self-titled former 'King' wins one."

While the tone of Gilbert's rather silly letter gave the image of him wiping away tears and drinking red wine while angrily pecking away at his keyboard, Chicago's own Rev. Jesse Jackson saw something more sinister behind it, making Quicken Loans Arena sound like a plantation. In a statement released by Jackson on Sunday through his organization Rainbow PUSH, he said:
"[Gilbert] speaks as an owner of LeBron and not the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers. His feelings of betrayal personify a slave master mentality. He sees LeBron as a runaway slave."
Albeit a "slave" that was made a $120 million offer. Jackson's not the only one making the slavery comparison -- in a speech last week Louis Farrakhan called the NBA a "big plantation" and said that LeBron is a "sharecropper," and the likening of professional sports to slavery is not a new concept.

Fox Sports' Jason Whitlock responded to Jackson's statement, calling it "crap" that needs to be addressed because "Jesse has a constituency, a passionate group of idiots who believe the best way to combat white-wing political bigots such as Limbaugh and Hannity is with black-wing political bigotry."

By Prescott Carlson in News on July 12, 2010 2:30 PM 4 Comments 0 Likes
Old 07-12-2010, 05:41 PM
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What is Jackson smoking...?
Old 07-12-2010, 06:06 PM
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Post Richardson to Magic

May mean that Redick's a Bull...!

Story here: http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com...-to-bulls.html
Old 07-12-2010, 06:31 PM
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Fisher announced on his website that he's staying with the Lakers.
Old 07-12-2010, 07:54 PM
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^ yep. good for him.
Old 07-12-2010, 08:46 PM
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Lol Gilbert fined $100k by Stern. No investigation required for collusion.
Old 07-13-2010, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CarbonGray Earl
Love Simmons's writing when it doesn't involve his Laker hate and Celtic cocksucking.

He's too biased, IMO.
at least he admits his bias.
Old 07-13-2010, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by juniorbean
If LA did not draft Kobe, Shaq would have never left Orlando to go to LA. Well, he likely would have still left Orlando, but he would not have been a Laker in 1996.

They were building a team around Kobe, and Shaq was a piece of the puzzle. Yes, he was a large piece... but LA was Kobe's team from the day they drafted him. Shaq shared the spotlight and leadership with him (but let's be honest, you can't win with a big man as your one and only star the way you can contend with just a star guard or forward), but Kobe proved it was his team when he forced Shaq out of LA and Kobe went on to win an additional 2 championships w/o him.
well we disagree and we were obviously watching different laker seasons. Kobe did not assert himself until after the first championship, and even during the second ring season was only starting to "try" and be the guy. And by trying, we're talking being the focus of the offense which is completely different from leadership. Shaq was not only the obvious leader the first 2 championship seasons, but also the more important player of the 2. there's a lot of revisionist history when it comes to Shaq and LA because of how it went down, but Shaq demanded the double teams (not Kobe until after Shaq was gone). this allowed Kobe a lot of space to roam the perimeter and slash as much as he wanted. I will agree Kobe became the focal point the 3rd ring season, and clearly became a better player as Shaq was on his fat declining years but he was never the leader.

And I don't think Shaq joins LA because of Kobe like you suggest - Shaq became a laker in Kobe's first season as a rookie and was unproven, untested. I doubt any NBA player is joining an NBA team for a rookie (96-97), let alone a hs rookie. ANd Kobe wasn't even a top 20 player until the , the 99-00 season. And most reports are that players hated playing with Kobe., but loved playing with Shaq.

Kobe winning 2 rings without Shaq only shows that he grew up and become the leader he needed to be and that proved to be the difference. But he was hardly a leader until he experienced a couple of non-playoff seasons. When all is said and done, Kobe will be considered a better player than Shaq, but was not the better player in their first 2 championships otgether, and was never really the team leader until after Shaq was booted.
Old 07-13-2010, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
I don't see it as Kobe kicking him out. I saw it more as the Lakers making the smarter move as to who was younger because Shaq was getting long in the tooth by the time he came to Miami. And you gotta give credit to Gasol to why he also won. Gasol is easily one of the best big men in the NBA today. Not Shaq dominant in the early 2000's but fantastic.
Originally Posted by clpassenubye
while its true that the lakers are kobe's team now it was not kobe's team from the day he was "traded" to the lakers. When shaq was acquired it was his team and kobe didn't so much force shaq out there were several things that happened to make shaq want to leave 1) the lakers wanted to pay him about 10 million less than he wanted on his extension 2) his relationship with kobe had completely fell apart and they weren't that close to begin with. 3) phil jackson dedcided to leave and at the time shaq had said if phil leaves i will leave..
Thank you - all true, although LA wanting to keep a younger Kobe was definately part of the decision by management.
Old 07-13-2010, 01:52 AM
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And Jesse Jackson is fucking dumb. I swear only grownups should be allowed to talk.

Thank you Jason Whitlock.

Last edited by lowpost; 07-13-2010 at 01:55 AM.
Old 07-13-2010, 01:57 AM
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Lebron wade Bosh the best trio ever? LOL. They might be top 10. But I got a list of trios that are either better or would play them to a draw. Let's see if they win a ring first.
Old 07-13-2010, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by lowpost
And Jesse Jackson is fucking dumb. I swear only grownups should be allowed to talk.

Thank you Jason Whitlock.
Just imagine if LeBron went to Himeytown.
Old 07-13-2010, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
Lol Gilbert fined $100k by Stern. No investigation required for collusion.
Stern is such an idiot.
Old 07-13-2010, 07:33 AM
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^Normally I agree. However owners can't be making comments like Gilbert without the consequences. Look at Cuban who's paid the NBA hundreds of thousands of dollars. As for the collusion, I don't think anyone officially filed a complaint anyways.
Old 07-13-2010, 07:38 AM
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What rule did Gilbert break, though. I didn't know there was a 'don't be a jackass' rule in the NBA.

If so, the league should have folded in 1986.
Old 07-13-2010, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CocheseUGA
What rule did Gilbert break, though. I didn't know there was a 'don't be a jackass' rule in the NBA.

If so, the league should have folded in 1986.
The league has fined Cuban for various league related issues like referees, rules, starting the season on an election day, and players. He got fined for yelling at JR Smith. Cuban created the 'don't be a jackass' fine.
Old 07-13-2010, 08:22 AM
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Criticizing refs is in the rule book, though. Acting like a jilted lover isn't.
Old 07-13-2010, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by lowpost
Lebron wade Bosh the best trio ever? LOL. They might be top 10. But I got a list of trios that are either better or would play them to a draw. Let's see if they win a ring first.
Fuck that. Let's see them play an NBA game together before we start throwing around shit like "best trio ever!" Yes they will probably be very good, but for all we know, they might still lose a playoff series to the Celtics or the NBA Finals to the Lakers. Let's all calm down and see what happens. As for the writer of that article... crack is a hell of a drug!
Old 07-13-2010, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CocheseUGA
Criticizing refs is in the rule book, though. Acting like a jilted lover isn't.
But he didn't just criticize refs.
Old 07-13-2010, 10:25 AM
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What rule did he violate? 'Inappropriate comments.' It's a load of horseshit, Stern once again making up the rules as he goes along.
Old 07-13-2010, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CocheseUGA
What rule did he violate? 'Inappropriate comments.' It's a load of horseshit, Stern once again making up the rules as he goes along.
<----?

Old 07-13-2010, 01:19 PM
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I really don't care. I just don't like that little troll.
Old 07-13-2010, 01:48 PM
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Zydrunas' agent confirms that he signs with Heat. Only matter is if one year or one + option.
Old 07-13-2010, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by lowpost
well we disagree and we were obviously watching different laker seasons. Kobe did not assert himself until after the first championship, and even during the second ring season was only starting to "try" and be the guy. And by trying, we're talking being the focus of the offense which is completely different from leadership. Shaq was not only the obvious leader the first 2 championship seasons, but also the more important player of the 2. there's a lot of revisionist history when it comes to Shaq and LA because of how it went down, but Shaq demanded the double teams (not Kobe until after Shaq was gone). this allowed Kobe a lot of space to roam the perimeter and slash as much as he wanted. I will agree Kobe became the focal point the 3rd ring season, and clearly became a better player as Shaq was on his fat declining years but he was never the leader.

And I don't think Shaq joins LA because of Kobe like you suggest - Shaq became a laker in Kobe's first season as a rookie and was unproven, untested. I doubt any NBA player is joining an NBA team for a rookie (96-97), let alone a hs rookie. ANd Kobe wasn't even a top 20 player until the , the 99-00 season. And most reports are that players hated playing with Kobe., but loved playing with Shaq.

Kobe winning 2 rings without Shaq only shows that he grew up and become the leader he needed to be and that proved to be the difference. But he was hardly a leader until he experienced a couple of non-playoff seasons. When all is said and done, Kobe will be considered a better player than Shaq, but was not the better player in their first 2 championships otgether, and was never really the team leader until after Shaq was booted.

Couldn't agree more.
Old 07-13-2010, 06:44 PM
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The more I think about it the Heat might be the 2nd best team in Florida, my reasoning is Vince Carter is the kind of player that needs motivation to play his best and believe me he will be motivated to play against the Big 3 egos not only that Quentin Richardson is an upgrade from Matt Barnes, they aren't likely to let Redick go especially since the recent in state developments and they don't have an answer for Dwight Howard.
Old 07-13-2010, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lowpost
Lebron wade Bosh the best trio ever? LOL. They might be top 10. But I got a list of trios that are either better or would play them to a draw. Let's see if they win a ring first.
dude your avatar is awesome. where did you find it?
Old 07-13-2010, 08:21 PM
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Post Mavs Acquire Chandler (and not Raptors)

From TSN...

The Charlotte Bobcats completed a wild 24 hours of trade discussions with a deal on Tuesday that does include centre Tyson Chandler after all.

He's just not heading to Toronto.

After a potential trade with the Raptors fell apart, the Bobcats sent Chandler and fellow centre Alexis Ajinca to the Dallas Mavericks for centre Erick Dampier, forward Eduardo Najera, shooting guard Matt Carroll and cash considerations.

While the Bobcats get financial flexibility with Dampier's non-guaranteed US$13-million contract, the injury-plagued Chandler is off to this third team in a year after being acquired from New Orleans last summer.

"We could not be more excited to add Tyson Chandler," said Mavericks general manager Donnie Nelson. "He is one of the most versatile big men in the league today. He gives our front line a defensive, shot-blocking, athletic punch we haven't had here in awhile."

Bobcats general manager Rod Higgins said the Bobcats will either waive Dampier or make another trade with him. That would allow the Bobcats clear about $7 million in salary-cap space because they dump Chandler's $12.7 million contract and Ajinca's $1.5 million deal and take in Carroll ($4.3 million) and Najera ($2.8 million).

Before the trade, the Bobcats were only about $3 million shy of the reaching the luxury tax threshold, a payroll figure owner Michael Jordan said they wouldn't exceed.

"You have to consider that contract is probably one of the most valuable contracts in the league," Higgins said. "The flexibility is the beautiful part of having Erick's deal, maybe not so much for Erick himself as a player, but for the franchise itself."

Carroll is a jump-shooter Charlotte traded to Dallas just 19 months ago, one of eight deals involving 26 players the Bobcats have made the since Larry Brown took over as coach at the start of the 2008-09 season. Najera will add depth to Charlotte's frontcourt.

It's a far different outcome for Charlotte than what was being discussed a day earlier.

The Bobcats had been closing in on a deal that would've sent Chandler and Boris Diaw to Toronto for Jose Calderon and Reggie Evans. Calderon would have provided Charlotte with a needed replacement for point guard Raymond Felton, who signed with New York on Monday.

While Higgins insisted the deal wasn't agreed upon, the Raptors seemed to think it was. Chandler wrote in an email to The Associated Press on Monday night that his agent had told him the deal was done, while Evans thanked Raptors fans on his Twitter page.

Instead, the seven-foot-one Chandler goes to a more competitive team out West, while Diaw remains in Charlotte -- for now.

"I never talked to Boris. No one from the Bobcats talked to Boris about him in the trade," Higgins said. "I can't speak for anybody else."

It marked the second time in less than two years Chandler had an apparent trade stopped. Oklahoma City voided a deal with the Hornets in 2009 when Chandler failed a physical.

The No. 2 overall pick in the 2001 draft, Chandler was known in recent years for his alley-oop dunks from Chris Paul in New Orleans. But he also had durability concerns that spilled over in Charlotte after he was acquired for Emeka Okafor.

Foot and ankle injuries limited Chandler to 51 games last season and Brown started 37-year-old Theo Ratliff ahead of him late in the season and in the playoffs. Chandler averaged 6.5 points and 6.3 rebounds.

"We did the deal because we felt it was going to give us the opportunity to get better, if not today than down the road," Higgins said. "I think with Tyson when he came here I think unfairly for him there were probably a lot of expectations. Maybe he didn't get a chance to show what he can do."

The Mavericks have been searching to add a big man in the off-season. They get two when you include Ajinca.

The Bobcats gave up on Ajinca, whom they gave up this year's first-round pick to take in the 2008 draft. He played sparingly in two seasons.

"Alexis Ajinca is a fine young centre with significant upside," Nelson said.

Higgins indicated the Bobcats aren't done dealing. Acquiring a point guard remains a priority after the Calderon deal fell through.

"With D.J. Augustin as our only point guard under contract, we know we have to get more depth," Higgins said. "We will try at the end of the day to improve that position. ... Our roster still has to take form."
Old 07-13-2010, 10:04 PM
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don't know if it's been mentioned, but DFisher re-signed with the Lakers (no surprise there)

http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/100712derekfisher.html
Old 07-14-2010, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JS + MS3
dude your avatar is awesome. where did you find it?

Thanks - it's my car
Old 07-14-2010, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by clpassenubye
The more I think about it the Heat might be the 2nd best team in Florida, my reasoning is Vince Carter is the kind of player that needs motivation to play his best and believe me he will be motivated to play against the Big 3 egos not only that Quentin Richardson is an upgrade from Matt Barnes, they aren't likely to let Redick go especially since the recent in state developments and they don't have an answer for Dwight Howard.
I fear Howard and Nelson more than Carter due to matchups. They'll probably have to put Wade on Nelson, James on Carter, and Chalmers on QRich if he starts. And Howard's Howard so good luck to Big Z and whoever else we get. Like most of the league, Orlando will have a hard time defending Wade and James. And Bosh last year for Toronto averaged 23 points per game against Orlando at a 51% FG%. I liked Van Gundy when he was here but he must pay for his lapdog comments.
Old 07-14-2010, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
^Normally I agree. However owners can't be making comments like Gilbert without the consequences. Look at Cuban who's paid the NBA hundreds of thousands of dollars. As for the collusion, I don't think anyone officially filed a complaint anyways.
Gilbert's harsh words =/= Cuban's shenanigans. Gilbert was fined purely to appease Jackson's camp
Old 07-14-2010, 12:17 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s//newsnet5/20...ewsnet5_ts3110

WOW wtf! why can't stuff like this happen to me?

Lady buys a lebron pendant for $5 at a yard sale and it's worth ~ $10K because the diamonds are real.
Old 07-14-2010, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
I fear Howard and Nelson more than Carter due to matchups. They'll probably have to put Wade on Nelson, James on Carter, and Chalmers on QRich if he starts. And Howard's Howard so good luck to Big Z and whoever else we get. Like most of the league, Orlando will have a hard time defending Wade and James. And Bosh last year for Toronto averaged 23 points per game against Orlando at a 51% FG%. I liked Van Gundy when he was here but he must pay for his lapdog comments.
Yes Wade and James will be difficult but one or more of their averages will suffer just because there's not enough shots to go around.
Old 07-14-2010, 01:00 PM
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^not about averages. About their FG%. They're looking at those staying high since single coverages will be the norm.
Old 07-14-2010, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Doom878
^not about averages. About their FG%. They're looking at those staying high since single coverages will be the norm.
Personally I think many teams will play some kind of zone since they won't be able to cover them man to man.


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