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As it's likely that more than half the dealerships in the US have some sort of ADM for the Type S, I think they are all really calling Acura's bluff of withholding future allotments of Type S. Is Acura really going to limit their future sales opportunities by making the Type S even harder to get in the future?
I don't believe for a second that Acura is not enjoying all this publicity!
Yeah agree, the dealer can sell the current hot car for whatever he wants, except when he does not have a hot car to sell thanks to the allocation system.
That is not true, AFAIK only some US states do not allow direct car sales the US federal government has no laws prohibiting direct sales of vehicles. Hence the reason Tesla's cannot be purchased in Texas and some other states.
Prove it!! You are just wrong...and your "lap dog boys" really drink your cool aid. Pretty funny how they wag their tails every time you "think you know something"...that makes all of them
not to smart. All of you...do your homework. Period. Learn before you spout out garbage info. You all are just plain funny. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
Show all of us proof...in writing....that manufacturers can tell their dealers exactly what price they MUST sell their cars for. Go ahead...show us...and your lap dogs. Once they see you can't,
'cause that doesn't happen...as I've already explained.....then maybe...hmmm??...they won't be salivating all over your posts....that are just...wrong.
Most of them do it cause I wrote something....that's fine....but, no integrity or honesty or KNOWLEDGE....just....lap dogs.
Haters hate 'cause that's all they know. That's all they do. Facts....not just your BS speculations on what you feel like writing. Or ask questions....but, ranting and raving while sitting behind
a device from wherever....is...cowardly.
DEALERS CAN SELL AT THE PRICE THEY WISH. JUST A FACT...JACK!! You telling me I'm 100% wrong....well....PROVE IT! You can't...and won't...since what I'm telling you IS THE TRUTH.
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!! Thank you Jack. LOL!!
This kids is why you should maintain mental health awareness before it's too late and your descent into madness is irreversible.
Where is this rumor coming from that Acura is going to mess with allocations? They didn't give a crap about dealers marking up CTR, still happens to this day.
Where is this rumor coming from that Acura is going to mess with allocations? They didn't give a crap about dealers marking up CTR, still happens to this day.
They aren’t, which is the problem. They probably could but instead they’re deciding not to do anything.
Where is this rumor coming from that Acura is going to mess with allocations? They didn't give a crap about dealers marking up CTR, still happens to this day.
Not true. Honda exec walked through our showroom last week and saw the mark up on the Type R and made the manager take it off and drop it significantly. They care. But they just have to actually see it in person. Acura exec walks through these dealers and sees the mark up, they'll make them take it off. Especially the $10-15k mark ups these idiotic and greedy dealers are doing.
Yep you proved my point as it's only some states and not federal so your statement
is false. Am curious which other countries that allow or don't allow it
Yep, I was wrong, no problem in admitting it. But I swear I did see somewhere that Congress passed a bill decades ago, enabling States do have these franchise laws. Either way, you have to agree that it's ridiculous that States literally BAN sales from OEM and you have to go to third party. Imagine if Google or Samsung said you can't buy from us anymore, go to Haji's quick booth in the mall to get your Pixel phone. I wouldn't mind having it mandatory if it was better regulated. The fact that you can't walk in the dealership without knowing you're about to listen to lies, tricks, manipulations and tactics is ridiculous. Dealers have training for salesmen (especially FI office) on how to play into your feelings, they have fake pictures of kids on their desks, if they hear an accent, they'll ask where you're from and always have a "friend" from your country, turning couples into each other, guilting you into warranties with flashy cards, getting you tired and hungry, etc. It's UNNECESSARY! People need cars, and will buy them anyway. It doesn't have to be an experience that you walk away from feeling like you got anal probed. It shouldn't be this way. Period.
Not true. Honda exec walked through our showroom last week and saw the mark up on the Type R and made the manager take it off and drop it significantly. They care. But they just have to actually see it in person. Acura exec walks through these dealers and sees the mark up, they'll make them take it off. Especially the $10-15k mark ups these idiotic and greedy dealers are doing.
The Honda “Exec” can do what you said, but legally he cannot enforce it other than to try to screw with the dealers allocations or through other means. I’ve read a thousand times on car forums where owners have called the manufacturer to complain about something their dealer has or has not done, and they were told “the dealer is an independent…..”
Lets go a step further. Many people complain about dealer markups, but nobody complains about dealer discounts. I suspect it would not be legal to tell a dealer he cannot markup a car but he can mark down a car. There are, or at least were, laws that allow a manufacture (of anything) to force their retailers to sell at list price. There is a term for it that escapes me right now. I also know the owner of a Kawasaki dealer who told me that sometimes Kawasaki does not allow the dealer to advertise a discounted price but they can actually discount it. I’m sure it would be legal for manufacturers to put it in the franchise agreement that they have to price a certain way, but I’m sure in the auto business they don’t want to go down that road.
Yep, I was wrong, no problem in admitting it. But I swear I did see somewhere that Congress passed a bill decades ago, enabling States do have these franchise laws. Either way, you have to agree that it's ridiculous that States literally BAN sales from OEM and you have to go to third party. Imagine if Google or Samsung said you can't buy from us anymore, go to Haji's quick booth in the mall to get your Pixel phone. I wouldn't mind having it mandatory if it was better regulated. The fact that you can't walk in the dealership without knowing you're about to listen to lies, tricks, manipulations and tactics is ridiculous. Dealers have training for salesmen (especially FI office) on how to play into your feelings, they have fake pictures of kids on their desks, if they hear an accent, they'll ask where you're from and always have a "friend" from your country, turning couples into each other, guilting you into warranties with flashy cards, getting you tired and hungry, etc. It's UNNECESSARY! People need cars, and will buy them anyway. It doesn't have to be an experience that you walk away from feeling like you got anal probed. It shouldn't be this way. Period.
I do agree it's ridiculous the banning of direct sales, but guessing the auto dealerships in those states also probably have a powerful lobby which keeps things the ban in place.
Like many of us I've had to purchase new vehicles and helped some other friend's with buying new cars. IMO Internet/email/mobile has made the process so much easier for communicating and getting info. Then I put on my emotionless face and sluff off the salesman personal questions (where do you live, what do you do, why are you looking for a car,....) when I do have to go to the dealers as we pretty much know what model/trim/color and work towards a out the door price paid in cash. Maybe not be polite or cordial but that's what works best for me and everyone knows that we're not there to become lifelong friends. And best trait for negotiating if things suddenly change after having come to agreement on vehicle/price/T&C, then just walk away no hard feelings. Oh and although I love my wife, I leave her at home
I do agree it's ridiculous the banning of direct sales, but guessing the auto dealerships in those states also probably have a powerful lobby which keeps things the ban in place.
Like many of us I've had to purchase new vehicles and helped some other friend's with buying new cars. IMO Internet/email/mobile has made the process so much easier for communicating and getting info. Then I put on my emotionless face and sluff off the salesman personal questions (where do you live, what do you do, why are you looking for a car,....) when I do have to go to the dealers as we pretty much know what model/trim/color and work towards a out the door price paid in cash. Maybe not be polite or cordial but that's what works best for me and everyone knows that we're not there to become lifelong friends. And best trait for negotiating if things suddenly change after having come to agreement on vehicle/price/T&C, then just walk away no hard feelings. Oh and although I love my wife, I leave her at home
Agree on shopping alone. Only way to shop for a car. If they start the dance you just dance out the door. . Beforehand we agree on the car, the colors, the equipment etc, then I shop the internet & close the deal on my own. I have brought cars home for her to look at & try, so far she has not given a thumbs down. The Cobra was her idea out of the blue for a combined Birthday Christmas present. Apparently she saw one on the street & knew I always liked them.
The Honda “Exec” can do what you said, but legally he cannot enforce it other than to try to screw with the dealers allocations or through other means. I’ve read a thousand times on car forums where owners have called the manufacturer to complain about something their dealer has or has not done, and they were told “the dealer is an independent…..”
Lets go a step further. Many people complain about dealer markups, but nobody complains about dealer discounts. I suspect it would not be legal to tell a dealer he cannot markup a car but he can mark down a car. There are, or at least were, laws that allow a manufacture (of anything) to force their retailers to sell at list price. There is a term for it that escapes me right now. I also know the owner of a Kawasaki dealer who told me that sometimes Kawasaki does not allow the dealer to advertise a discounted price but they can actually discount it. I’m sure it would be legal for manufacturers to put it in the franchise agreement that they have to price a certain way, but I’m sure in the auto business they don’t want to go down that road.
I hate ADM (have paid list but never over) as much as anyone else on here as well. But you brought up a great point, that it's a two way street in the prices vehicles sell for and ability to sell them. Many dealerships in 2008/9 went bankrupt sitting on lots of inventory with loaned capital.
On your 2nd point, there was a case that got into just that with a specific NJ MB dealership (owned by a rich guy from India) that was undercutting prices drastically over other MB dealers nearby. It was a rare look into MB franchise T&C's (most are protected by NDA) eventually revoked their franchise license and many lawsuits later made it to SCOTUS. One of the weird MB rules from the T&C's was if there was another dealership between the potential customer home and the current dealership the current dealership was suppose to refer them to the closer dealership. Which to me would seemly be difficult to enforce.
Agree on shopping alone. Only way to shop for a car. If they start the dance you just dance out the door. . Beforehand we agree on the car, the colors, the equipment etc, then I shop the internet & close the deal on my own. I have brought cars home for her to look at & try, so far she has not given a thumbs down. The Cobra was her idea out of the blue for a combined Birthday Christmas present. Apparently she saw one on the street & knew I always liked them.
Was that your Cobra you built? That's cool it was your wife's idea for the combo present.
Was that your Cobra you built? That's cool it was your wife's idea for the combo present.
Yeah. The back story was I was going to buy a Cobra in 1966/67 time frame. Had seen the original at the NY car show a few years before. Lived in Jersey & was getting married to her. Bought a '67 StingRay coupe instead since it was an all weather car & more suited to my new life. Kept it for 28 years, kept the wife a lot longer.
Think looks are in the eye of the beholder. Both are good looking cars. Me, I would have liked to see the M with the traditional grill.
8 functional intakes. One with shutters
That said after the fake Type-S winning Red Line drag race with the S4 don't have much use for them. Totally in the bag with Honda. Picture is a photo op setting the $52K S in the same frame as the $101K M. Expect the huge Type-S exhausts on its 355 advertised horsepower VS the smaller pipes on the pipes on 503 advertised BHP (550est) is supposed to invoke the image of power.
Edmonds estimated the power after the heavier M4 RWD split some drag & roll races with the mid-engine StingRay at Acura's favorite track. The AWD M's should be interesting at the drags but might hurt the roll races.
AWD will be standard on the convertible from day one & an option on the coupe.
Taken from Top Gun, "the TLX-S body is writing checks the engine can't cash"
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-10-2021 at 02:56 AM.
Sam CarLegion
Would I buy a Type S after these loses? Yes but…the day I am picking it up here’s what I will do: new exhaust, new lowered spring (way to high), tune the engine to at least 400 to 450bhp if it can be done, replace the front seats ( too bulky) and maybe a better infotainment screen! Then I would daily drive it. For 62,000 dollars Canadian, it’s not a bad deal and most dealerships aren’t charging premium!
Replace the front seats and replace the infotainment screen? LOL, good luck with that. This is SSFTSX levels of stupidity. Maybe they're one and the same.
Replace the front seats and replace the infotainment screen? LOL, good luck with that. This is SSFTSX levels of stupidity. Maybe they're one and the same.
At the end of the S4 race, his face said it all. Very disappointed, clearly a fanboy and using excuses.
Replace the front seats and replace the infotainment screen? LOL, good luck with that. This is SSFTSX levels of stupidity. Maybe they're one and the same.
He's delusional. No one will do any of that. Maybe one off tuned. Also, when I said wheel gap is huge in initial release photos in May, people here were mean saying I'm lying because car was on shipping blocks. Well obviously that isn't true because the gap is stupid big.
Sam CarLegion
Would I buy a Type S after these loses? Yes but…the day I am picking it up here’s what I will do: new exhaust, new lowered spring (way to high), tune the engine to at least 400 to 450bhp if it can be done, replace the front seats ( too bulky) and maybe a better infotainment screen! Then I would daily drive it. For 62,000 dollars Canadian, it’s not a bad deal and most dealerships aren’t charging premium!
Think with all that Sam is into base 472BHP M4 Coupe 6MT money $71,800 + he would be the first to ever get a dashboard back together with out squeaks & rattles.
pyrodan007 At the end of the S4 race, his face said it all. Very disappointed, clearly a fanboy and using excuses.
I hope he does the planed Type-S VS Honda privately first. If it doesn't work out he can just fuhgeddaboudit & loose the vid. What has Sam trapped into excuses is in the script before the S4 race he projected a Type-S win.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-10-2021 at 10:50 AM.
I hate ADM (have paid list but never over) as much as anyone else on here as well. But you brought up a great point, that it's a two way street in the prices vehicles sell for and ability to sell them. Many dealerships in 2008/9 went bankrupt sitting on lots of inventory with loaned capital.
On your 2nd point, there was a case that got into just that with a specific NJ MB dealership (owned by a rich guy from India) that was undercutting prices drastically over other MB dealers nearby. It was a rare look into MB franchise T&C's (most are protected by NDA) eventually revoked their franchise license and many lawsuits later made it to SCOTUS. One of the weird MB rules from the T&C's was if there was another dealership between the potential customer home and the current dealership the current dealership was suppose to refer them to the closer dealership. Which to me would seemly be difficult to enforce.
That last sentence is interesting. A very good friend of mine was buying a Jaguar a few years ago. There are three dealers in the Houston area and one of them basically told him he had to buy from them. He never explained any legal reason. What it came across as was price fixing. The bottom line is that over the past 20 years he has bought four Jaguars and not all from the dealer closest to him.
That last sentence is interesting. A very good friend of mine was buying a Jaguar a few years ago. There are three dealers in the Houston area and one of them basically told him he had to buy from them. He never explained any legal reason. What it came across as was price fixing. The bottom line is that over the past 20 years he has bought four Jaguars and not all from the dealer closest to him.
Manufacturer policing & gov dealership regulations can float all over the place. I live in NC & bought 2 built to order BMWs from a dealer in Portland OR. When I went for number three in 2017, a 2018 model, was told they were no longer allowed to sell "out of state". While living in NC have also bought cars in NC, SC & GA all based on price.
The 3 biggest Corvette dealers in the country NJ, NH, MD ship all over the US & have no problems with GM. They account for about 2,000 units a year.
The Honda “Exec” can do what you said, but legally he cannot enforce it other than to try to screw with the dealers allocations or through other means. I’ve read a thousand times on car forums where owners have called the manufacturer to complain about something their dealer has or has not done, and they were told “the dealer is an independent…..”
Lets go a step further. Many people complain about dealer markups, but nobody complains about dealer discounts. I suspect it would not be legal to tell a dealer he cannot markup a car but he can mark down a car. There are, or at least were, laws that allow a manufacture (of anything) to force their retailers to sell at list price. There is a term for it that escapes me right now. I also know the owner of a Kawasaki dealer who told me that sometimes Kawasaki does not allow the dealer to advertise a discounted price but they can actually discount it. I’m sure it would be legal for manufacturers to put it in the franchise agreement that they have to price a certain way, but I’m sure in the auto business they don’t want to go down that road.
I like the way you think.
They'll complain about mark ups. They'll say things like " I know yall are still making thousands on this deal." Those end up being the customers I never see again and dog me on survey. But yet the dealer lost -$1500 to sell them a car and I get a $200 deduct from my pay for the bad survey. But yet those same people will be happy as crap to get above clean value for their trade. Then call back and complain how much we're selling it for. Um...you didn't complain when we gave you above clean for it. Why you complaining about us selling it retail?
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
I hate ADM (have paid list but never over) as much as anyone else on here as well. But you brought up a great point, that it's a two way street in the prices vehicles sell for and ability to sell them. Many dealerships in 2008/9 went bankrupt sitting on lots of inventory with loaned capital.
On your 2nd point, there was a case that got into just that with a specific NJ MB dealership (owned by a rich guy from India) that was undercutting prices drastically over other MB dealers nearby. It was a rare look into MB franchise T&C's (most are protected by NDA) eventually revoked their franchise license and many lawsuits later made it to SCOTUS. One of the weird MB rules from the T&C's was if there was another dealership between the potential customer home and the current dealership the current dealership was suppose to refer them to the closer dealership. Which to me would seemly be difficult to enforce.
I think I remember hearing about that. Banks aren't allowed to give separate approvals either. Like you come here to Honda and they get declined with Bank of America, they can't go down to Toyota or Kia down the street and get approved from that same bank. It helps keep dealers and banks honest.
Not really. A car that was lighter and had more power and torque beat it. What's embarrassing about that? It's not surprising that it happened. The same with the Audi S4. It's lighter and had more torque. Of course it's going to lose to those two cars.
Not really. A car that was lighter and had more power and torque beat it. What's embarrassing about that? It's not surprising that it happened. The same with the Audi S4. It's lighter and had more torque. Of course it's going to lose to those two cars.
Yes, it is odd how Acura is getting ridiculed for not defying basic physics. You can question why the car is so heavy yet you can’t ignore the fact that it is.
Yes, it is odd how Acura is getting ridiculed for not defying basic physics. You can question why the car is so heavy yet you can’t ignore the fact that it is.
They are getting ridiculed because it’s a 52-54k dollar car positioned above the Advance trim but missing advance features with the hypothetical promise of making up for that with a performance value proposition but it’s clear now the car isn’t much faster than the 2.0T Honda Accord which the numbers suggest would be in a dead heat with it from a roll.
Not going to be super competitive performance wise? Better put all the luxury features you got into it. Not going to include all the luxury features/tech in your highest level ‘performance’ trim? It better offer decent competitive performance. Do neither? Good luck selling it at that price in a crowded competitive segment.
It’s obvious this is a 5 second car Redline review lies so I Dont believe his 4.5 time. It will be neck and neck with the accord. This is really sad. They had a decade to pull a move like Infiniti in the early 2000s with the G35 and give the Germans a serious run . I’m disappointed and embarrassed for Acura
It’s obvious this is a 5 second car Redline review lies so I Dont believe his 4.5 time. It will be neck and neck with the accord. This is really sad. They had a decade to pull a move like Infiniti in the early 2000s with the G35 and give the Germans a serious run . I’m disappointed and embarrassed for Acura
Didn't we see 4.7 sec from another YTber?
If you do a typical C&D rollout deduction, that can be as low as 4.4-4.5 sec, no?
If you do a typical C&D rollout deduction, that can be as low as 4.4-4.5 sec, no?
Think I had guessed 4.5 magazine time in the early what will it do with 355BHP. Don't think its that quick from the race. Based on the Red Line run it looks like it has a short sprint gearing. Would like to see the number of shifts by 60mph with the 10 speed transmission.
Any one who has one can you do a count. Mine shifts twice on its own 1/2 at 30mph 2/3 at 50mph. Then 3/4 at 75mph finally 4/5 at 95mph & does the rest of the 1/4 mile in 5th with about 10mph left in 5th when it crosses the finish line. They are all multiplication gears, the 1:1 ratio is 6th - 7/8 are OD & 8th is blocked on in any sport mode. Rear ratio is 3:15 to 1.
If you do a typical C&D rollout deduction, that can be as low as 4.4-4.5 sec, no?
that was Soyfan or whatever his name is . The same guy who pretended to beat the S4. We also didn’t see the times he claimed. He just said he did it . No dragy showed the times from what I remember.
The M3 looks much more aggressive in person than the type S. It looks very mean coming up behind you it’s also very wide especially in the rear. It’s. A mean looking car.
The M3 looks much more aggressive in person than the type S. It looks very mean coming up behind you it’s also very wide especially in the rear. It’s. A mean looking car.
The M3 may be wide but the 2G TLX is an inch wider still. That's the only way my golf cart bag fits in the trunk horizontally with room to spare!
that was Soyfan or whatever his name is . The same guy who pretended to beat the S4. We also didn’t see the times he claimed. He just said he did it . No dragy showed the times from what I remember.
His Type S review will be released soon. I think that will show the 4.5 sec run. This car is barely out. Most people don't even know how to properly launch this thing so not surprised to see a range of times. Most of these cars are also barely broken in if that. Yes, the car is heavy but it should be in the 4s and low 13`s in quarter mile.
They are getting ridiculed because it’s a 52-54k dollar car positioned above the Advance trim but missing advance features with the hypothetical promise of making up for that with a performance value proposition but it’s clear now the car isn’t much faster than the 2.0T Honda Accord which the numbers suggest would be in a dead heat with it from a roll.
Not going to be super competitive performance wise? Better put all the luxury features you got into it. Not going to include all the luxury features/tech in your highest level ‘performance’ trim? It better offer decent competitive performance. Do neither? Good luck selling it at that price in a crowded competitive segment.
It's missing features people FEEL like it should have. HUD isn't a necessity to compete in it's class. It definitely is faster than the Accord 2.0T. I have the Sport 2.0 with Hondata Stage 2. I can't get past a 6 second 0-60. It having a 5 second(or less) 0-60 is definitely faster.
The TLX Type S was made to be a little bit of luxury mixed with sport. Just because it doesn't have the power or features that some people say it SHOULD have, doesn't take away from what it actually is. Doesn't need to add more luxury features. Why? Aren't yall already complaining about the weight? More luxury features, the more weight. The slower the time.
If you don't like it, that's fine. But ridiculing it just because it doesn't have some features you think it SHOULD have doesn't make the car any less.
It's missing features people FEEL like it should have. HUD isn't a necessity to compete in it's class. It definitely is faster than the Accord 2.0T. I have the Sport 2.0 with Hondata Stage 2. I can't get past a 6 second 0-60. It having a 5 second(or less) 0-60 is definitely faster.
The TLX Type S was made to be a little bit of luxury mixed with sport. Just because it doesn't have the power or features that some people say it SHOULD have, doesn't take away from what it actually is. Doesn't need to add more luxury features. Why? Aren't yall already complaining about the weight? More luxury features, the more weight. The slower the time.
If you don't like it, that's fine. But ridiculing it just because it doesn't have some features you think it SHOULD have doesn't make the car any less.
I really like the new TLX, I’ve had money down TWICE on a Type S thinking it’s what I wanted. My opinion turned on it when I saw it get completely out classed by the Audi (which was already on the weaker end of the segment) and started thinking about the numbers more critically there is a good case to be made that it will just barely out run an Accord from a roll. I think it will be faster than an Accord on a roll (AWD will obviously make it better from a stop without question), but not by a lot and when you’re paying 52-54k thousand dollars you expect more. I mean it’s ridiculous that the 35k Accord Touring 2.0T has more tech/comfort features than the 52k Type S and might only be slightly slower once rolling..
Is performance everything? Absolutely not. But they also cheaped out on the luxury departments taking away a number of advance features. You know if it was the Advance + the Type S specific stuff there would still be a good value case IMO and I’d be less turned off personally by it being outclassed performance wise but as it sits it’s like okay so for 52-54k dollars I get none of the luxuries of the price point and none of the performance of the price point and on top of that you have to live with the other questionable choices like the touchpad which works better than I thought it would but still it’s a mistake other luxury brands have been learning from.
It is what it is, I don’t think anybody who buys one will be unhappy with it. I still think it’s a great car and wish the best to everyone who buys one. These are just my opinions.
07-06-2021, 08:12 AM
. Beforehand we agree on the car, the colors, the equipment etc, then I shop the internet & close the deal on my own. I have brought cars home for her to look at & try, so far she has not given a thumbs down. The Cobra was her idea out of the blue for a combined Birthday Christmas present. Apparently she saw one on the street & knew I always liked them.
I hate ADM (have paid list but never over) as much as anyone else on here as well. But you brought up a great point, that it's a two way street in the prices vehicles sell for and ability to sell them. Many dealerships in 2008/9 went bankrupt sitting on lots of inventory with loaned capital.
