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BMW got rid of most, or maybe all of their tourings for the US Market.. i think it is just a matter of time before Audi and Mercedes pull the plug as well...
I would be very surprised if they bring M340i wagon here... when X3M40i is pretty much the same price...
That just proves my point that carmakers keep shoving crossovers down our throat while not giving us decent wagons. The X3M40i is about $4k more (base vs base), and some people prefer a lower seating position, a lighter, better handling car, and better gas mileage
I dont know if it is car manuf. shoving crossover down our throat or there are just way more ppl prefer SUV/CUV than Wagon... from Business perspective, they provide cars that sell...
We dont have a M340i touring here... so it is hard to compare the price. But if we compare M340i sedan Xdrive base starts at $56k and X3M40i is base is actually cheaper, $55900. It is safe to assume that if we did have a M340i touring here, it would be more expensive than the X3M40i.
For reference 2018 F3X 330i Xdrive Touring started at $44k and X3 30i Xdrive started at $42k.
So it would be difficult to justify wagon from price point.
From us the car enthusiasts POV, we prefer lower seating position, lighter, better handling car (which i personally prefer). But i would assume majority of the family oriented buyers for Wagon and CUVs prefer higher seating position, "Safer" in their opinion and more spacer. Many prefer the bigger car than the smaller sedan. Handing is probably not on their priority list.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 06-22-2020 at 03:36 PM.
I dont know if it is car manuf. shoving crossover down our throat or there are just way more ppl prefer SUV/CUV than Wagon... from Business perspective, they provide cars that sell...
We dont have a M340i touring here... so it is hard to compare the price. But if we compare M340i sedan Xdrive base starts at $56k and X3M40i is base is actually cheaper, $55900. It is safe to assume that if we did have a M340i touring here, it would be more expensive than the X3M40i.
For reference 2018 F3X 330i Xdrive Touring started at $44k and X3 30i Xdrive started at $42k.
So it would be difficult to justify wagon from price point.
From us the car enthusiasts POV, we prefer lower seating position, lighter, better handling car (which i personally prefer). But i would assume majority of the family oriented buyers for Wagon and CUVs prefer higher seating position, "Safer" in their opinion and more spacer. Many prefer the bigger car than the smaller sedan. Handing is probably not on their priority list.
I'd personally be willing to pay a little ($1k-$2k) extra over the X3 to get a real wagon. I'm not willing, however, to pay $130k for a wagon.
My guess is that the cost difference is that the X3 is built here in the states while the 3 series is made in Munich. Shipping not free.
I'd personally be willing to pay a little ($1k-$2k) extra over the X3 to get a real wagon. I'm not willing, however, to pay $130k for a wagon.
My guess is that the cost difference is that the X3 is built here in the states while the 3 series is made in Munich. Shipping not free.
Well i dont think you and i are willing to pay $130k for any car right now
Also both you and I are willing to pay more for Non-CUV counterpart, and we do not represent where the sales #s are.
Objectively speaking, i think there are many many more who are willing to do the opposite and the manuf. knows that as well.
While shipping is not free, they have no problem charging the same Destination and handling fee tho...
Last edited by oonowindoo; 06-22-2020 at 04:48 PM.
I'm willing to pay $130K for an RS6. I don't have the means to do so, but very willing.
I mean, $20 is $20 action would take 6500 transactions, or at least 17 years of doing the deed daily for that kind of scratch. Maybe down your throat will work for someone that is young.
I'm willing to pay $130K for an RS6. I don't have the means to do so, but very willing.
I mean, $20 is $20 action would take 6500 transactions, or at least 17 years of doing the deed daily for that kind of scratch. Maybe down your throat will work for someone that is young.
There is an easier way than downing anything in your throat if you are willing to do it for 17 years.
Just sit and wait until 2037, i am sure you will be able to pick up a 2020 RS6 for cheap.... without putting anything in your throat unless deep throat was your goal and RS6 was just an excuse
Well i dont think you and i are willing to pay $130k for any car right now
Also both you and I are willing to pay more for Non-CUV counterpart, and we do not represent where the sales #s are.
Objectively speaking, i think there are many many more who are willing to do the opposite and the manuf. knows that as well.
While shipping is not free, they have no problem charging the same Destination and handling fee tho...
Yeah, neither of us are willing to pay that much for any car...
That said, sales numbers for a car like this don't need to be super high. I'm sure Ford didn't go in thinking they'd sell Focus RS units in any appreciable volumes but they did it anyway. Selling a M340 touring, especially in manual, would get SO MANY customers from the enthusiast camp over to BMW it wouldn't even be funny. They'd steal sales from all major competitors including Tesla just because of fun, fast, manual wagon that isn't $100k+. Give us a ~$55k-$60k performance wagon and I think the enthusiast sales will materialize, especially so if manual.
Yeah, neither of us are willing to pay that much for any car...
That said, sales numbers for a car like this don't need to be super high. I'm sure Ford didn't go in thinking they'd sell Focus RS units in any appreciable volumes but they did it anyway. Selling a M340 touring, especially in manual, would get SO MANY customers from the enthusiast camp over to BMW it wouldn't even be funny. They'd steal sales from all major competitors including Tesla just because of fun, fast, manual wagon that isn't $100k+. Give us a ~$55k-$60k performance wagon and I think the enthusiast sales will materialize, especially so if manual.
If the sedan and coupe dont even have manual... i dont think anyone will put manual in a wagon...
Even the take rate for Manual on the F80 M3 is something like 15.5% of the total sales... let alone a non M wagon..
It is just one of those things that all of us would love to see its existence but not many will be willing to buy at the end.
I am actually quite surprised that BMW is willing to offer manual on the next Gen M3... quite surprised.
So looking at Audi's website in Germany, a basic A4 Avant starts at ~$40K. This is what that looks like:
Very plain-jane if you ask me. But they do have the VAT included (19%). You get 16" wheels, a 4 cylinder motor (hybrid), 6 speed manual, and the paint is black or white (~$1k for other paint colors, some up to $2.6k). There is no way this would sell in the US stripped down like this. But once you add features it will total up fast. And it would have to have the right amount of power to go with it then it would sell.
Call me a heathen but I prefer cloth over leather. Yeah, leather is more befitting of a luxury vehicle. I suppose ventilated seats are becoming more common, but last I checked, not all Audi models offer it
Alcantara + something else is usually my preferred choice. Leather is just asking for swamp crotch on longer drives.
Call me a heathen but I prefer cloth over leather. Yeah, leather is more befitting of a luxury vehicle. I suppose ventilated seats are becoming more common, but last I checked, not all Audi models offer it
Alcantara + something else is usually my preferred choice. Leather is just asking for swamp crotch on longer drives.
In the luxury segment, you have cool and ventilated seat to offset your warm soft leather in the summer.....
Dont you wear pants when you drive? why would you have swamp crotch
So looking at Audi's website in Germany, a basic A4 Avant starts at ~$40K. This is what that looks like:
Very plain-jane if you ask me. But they do have the VAT included (19%). You get 16" wheels, a 4 cylinder motor (hybrid), 6 speed manual, and the paint is black or white (~$1k for other paint colors, some up to $2.6k). There is no way this would sell in the US stripped down like this. But once you add features it will total up fast. And it would have to have the right amount of power to go with it then it would sell.
So it's actually a $32k car if you take out the VAT that we don't pay here? That's actually not horrible for an entry level Audi. For $8k in options, you'd get a pretty nice set up.
Also, have to remember that you can't really use the exchange rate as a means of guessing pricing. A good way to do it is to find out what it is in GBP and do a 1 to 1 price translation. The GBP is worth more than USD so you get your discount that way.
Originally Posted by Costco
Call me a heathen but I prefer cloth over leather. Yeah, leather is more befitting of a luxury vehicle. I suppose ventilated seats are becoming more common, but last I checked, not all Audi models offer it
Alcantara + something else is usually my preferred choice. Leather is just asking for swamp crotch on longer drives.
Leather is easier to clean and comes in heated/vented form. I don't have vented seats in any of my cars anymore (old Jeep had them) but it was pretty nice for the longer drives. Current Jeep has cloth and it's a pain to keep it clean, especially from dust and such.
That Avant looks pretty good. And, at <$35k could easily see it being a contender here, though I'm sure it would be closer to $40k, because Audi. Thinking about MB pricing, $35k would put it in CLA/A class money.
Dont you wear pants when you drive? why would you have swamp crotch
I like to drive with the windows down when it gets warmer (but not hot). Probably my fault
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Leather is easier to clean and comes in heated/vented form. I don't have vented seats in any of my cars anymore (old Jeep had them) but it was pretty nice for the longer drives. Current Jeep has cloth and it's a pain to keep it clean, especially from dust and such.
For sure leather is the easiest to clean. Alcantara is the biggest pain to clean, but it's just my preference. Been very careful to not let anyone with food in the car, heh.
My brother's Charger has alcantara along the seat centers and bolsters, and leather on the outside parts. Looks great, you feel secured, and I actually had to turn the seat cooling down because I got too cold
I've had cloth seats on both of my Subarus. Very comfy seats overall (tied IMO with Volvo), and the fabric seems very durable. The Volvo has leather, and has worn well over the past 8 years. But I wouldn't mind having the cooling function on these. Swamp ass is a real thing.
I've had cloth seats on both of my Subarus. Very comfy seats overall (tied IMO with Volvo), and the fabric seems very durable. The Volvo has leather, and has worn well over the past 8 years. But I wouldn't mind having the cooling function on these. Swamp ass is a real thing.
Still can't believe for the price, the S5 has no cooling feature on the seats.
06-22-2020, 01:51 PM
