Toyota: 86 News
#921
FR-S Speedster by Cartel Customs.
Looks like a real life version of a Hot Wheels or Matchbox car.
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/01-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/05-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/03-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/04-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/09-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/14-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/11-frs-speedster.jpg)
Looks like a real life version of a Hot Wheels or Matchbox car.
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/01-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/05-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/03-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/04-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/09-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/14-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/11-frs-speedster.jpg)
![](http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/resize/960x655/quality/85/http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/04/10-frs-speedster.jpg)
#922
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
![Ugly](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugly.gif)
#924
I wonder what would be more fun, a BRZ/FR-S or S2000?
Every time I see an S2000 (like this morning while walking dog), I'm reminded how much I still want one.
Every time I see an S2000 (like this morning while walking dog), I'm reminded how much I still want one.
#925
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Fun Factor
S2K = Miata = FRS = BRZ
I'm just assuming.
S2K = Miata = FRS = BRZ
I'm just assuming.
![:O](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/embarrassment.gif)
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civicdrivr (04-11-2012)
#926
IMO the S2000 will probably be the funnest. Nothing like winding up a car to 9000 rpm, or even 8000.
But the FR-S looks to offer the best value. Not everyone wants a roadster. Besides, it also has a back seat.... nothing to do with fun factor necessarily but once you don't have one, you realize what you miss out on. I've always thought the S2000 and Miata were great values, though they could come down in price a bit, or at least offer more for what they ask for.
A brand new S2000 was around $32,000+ wasn't it? By comparison the FR-S will be roughly 3/4 of the price.
But the FR-S looks to offer the best value. Not everyone wants a roadster. Besides, it also has a back seat.... nothing to do with fun factor necessarily but once you don't have one, you realize what you miss out on. I've always thought the S2000 and Miata were great values, though they could come down in price a bit, or at least offer more for what they ask for.
A brand new S2000 was around $32,000+ wasn't it? By comparison the FR-S will be roughly 3/4 of the price.
#927
'08 MX5 GT 6spd.
Being able to put the top down puts the S2K/Miata on a completely different level of fun.
When you are in your BRZ, look at the guy in the S2K next to you at the light with his top down. Hes having more fun.
When you are in your BRZ, look at the guy in the S2K next to you at the light with his top down. Hes having more fun.
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civicdrivr (04-12-2012)
#928
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
^ oh that's for sure.
I still remember the day I drove my ex-gf's dad's brand new SL55 AMG. Driving that thing with top down on a freeway literally felt like I owned the road.
I still remember the day I drove my ex-gf's dad's brand new SL55 AMG. Driving that thing with top down on a freeway literally felt like I owned the road.
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#929
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Anyone seen the dyno test on Edmunds?
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...cion-fr-s.html
![](http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/assets_c/2012/04/frsdyno-thumb-717x477-118670.jpg)
That dip between 3000-5000rpm is quite significant....Toyota engineers said "they intentionally traded some sauce at 4000 rpm in order to gain some driveability lower in the rev range." I'm not too sure about that.....I don't see that kind of dip in a K20 or F20C......
Also, is it just me? but I'd imagine an engine with direct injection would get better numbers than the old K20 in the Civic Si (not talking about S2K since that car is more $$):
![](http://sohc.vtec.net/news_files/960681/11si_vs_12si.gif)
It's FWD vs RWD and obviously RWD has more losses..but 20hp difference at the wheel is pretty big....
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...cion-fr-s.html
![](http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/assets_c/2012/04/frsdyno-thumb-717x477-118670.jpg)
That dip between 3000-5000rpm is quite significant....Toyota engineers said "they intentionally traded some sauce at 4000 rpm in order to gain some driveability lower in the rev range." I'm not too sure about that.....I don't see that kind of dip in a K20 or F20C......
Also, is it just me? but I'd imagine an engine with direct injection would get better numbers than the old K20 in the Civic Si (not talking about S2K since that car is more $$):
![](http://sohc.vtec.net/news_files/960681/11si_vs_12si.gif)
It's FWD vs RWD and obviously RWD has more losses..but 20hp difference at the wheel is pretty big....
#930
Here's the video
#932
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Yep. What caused it again? Sorry didn't read the article.
#934
I want to doubt them but with the fact tat every reviewer and their mother is lining up on their knees for this car im just gonna assume the engineers knew what they were doing
#935
Pro
A lot of the high performance driving schools do not allow open top vehicles, so that limits the choice to such track events. S2000 is a great car for the road.
#936
You'll Never Walk Alone
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The Toyota engineers said, "they intentionally traded some sauce at 4000 rpm in order to gain some driveability lower in the rev range."
If you look at the torque curve of the FR-S from Edmunds and the torque curve of the Civic Si, you will notice that there's a 20hp difference at the wheel. I think the difference comes from higher redline, the ability to sustain the torque output at a higher rpm than the FR-S, and less drivetrain losses thanks to FWD. 20whp is huge.
Also, I know that the FR-S tops out at 59mph in 2nd gear, thus reaching 60mph requires an extra gear shift. That would add 0.5s or so I'd imagine.
Yea, I think reviewers aren't too concerned with the power and/or they know that the FR-S isn't the fastest thing on Earth. They care more about its RWD layout, its excellent handling, and its driving feel. I don't think many cars can match FR-S can you look at things this way.
Also, I know that the FR-S tops out at 59mph in 2nd gear, thus reaching 60mph requires an extra gear shift. That would add 0.5s or so I'd imagine.
Yea, I think reviewers aren't too concerned with the power and/or they know that the FR-S isn't the fastest thing on Earth. They care more about its RWD layout, its excellent handling, and its driving feel. I don't think many cars can match FR-S can you look at things this way.
#937
Zero to sixty is a lame and antiquated metric anyway.
Show of hands.... who would choose a Civic Si over an FR-S/BRZ?
Show of hands.... who would choose a Civic Si over an FR-S/BRZ?
The following users liked this post:
civicdrivr (04-12-2012)
#938
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
There are just so many better cars under $25k than a Civic Si.
And yes, only idiots brag about the 0-60 times.
And yes, only idiots brag about the 0-60 times.
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civicdrivr (04-12-2012)
#939
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I dont care how much power the car makes, its how it uses it.
I sat in the FRS before I sat in the BRZ, and going in I was expecting the worst. The interior is actually quite nice, and if the BRZ werent on the market or had a $5k+ price difference, I would have no qualms about living with the FRS every day. It looked and felt quite good in person.
Its only marginally bigger then the MX5 on the outside, but due to the fixed roof, there is tons more room when youre sitting in it. Speaking of which, those seats hug you. Im 6' tall, 165lbs and the car fit me like a glove.
The shifter was very similar to the S2k unit, just with reverse to the left and up instead of to the right and down. The cogs seemed very closely spaced, and I liked that. We'll see how it truly is when I drive it.
They had 3 FRS' at the show; one Whiteout, one Hot Lava, and one Asphalt (the color I have ordered). The BRZ was WSB (STI blue). The interior on that was much brighter, and the seats felt great. The trunk on the car is surprisingly large.
The FRS' radio looks very cheap. I really wish they sold a stripped down car without a radio.
RE: Backseats -
Please dont use the backseats in a comparison between the S2k and MX5. Its sole purpose is to separate the passenger compartment from the trunk. No one is fitting in that back seat, unless you typically transport quadruple amputees.
I sat in the FRS before I sat in the BRZ, and going in I was expecting the worst. The interior is actually quite nice, and if the BRZ werent on the market or had a $5k+ price difference, I would have no qualms about living with the FRS every day. It looked and felt quite good in person.
Its only marginally bigger then the MX5 on the outside, but due to the fixed roof, there is tons more room when youre sitting in it. Speaking of which, those seats hug you. Im 6' tall, 165lbs and the car fit me like a glove.
The shifter was very similar to the S2k unit, just with reverse to the left and up instead of to the right and down. The cogs seemed very closely spaced, and I liked that. We'll see how it truly is when I drive it.
They had 3 FRS' at the show; one Whiteout, one Hot Lava, and one Asphalt (the color I have ordered). The BRZ was WSB (STI blue). The interior on that was much brighter, and the seats felt great. The trunk on the car is surprisingly large.
The FRS' radio looks very cheap. I really wish they sold a stripped down car without a radio.
RE: Backseats -
Please dont use the backseats in a comparison between the S2k and MX5. Its sole purpose is to separate the passenger compartment from the trunk. No one is fitting in that back seat, unless you typically transport quadruple amputees.
Last edited by civicdrivr; 04-12-2012 at 07:32 PM.
#940
Your Friendly Canadian
Join Date: Dec 2007
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^ Or small kids. IMO they're better than no backseat, and you have some room to move the seat backwards and forwards. I'm 6"2 and the Miata is a little tight for me. ![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
When did you order? Getting rid of the CL?
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
When did you order? Getting rid of the CL?
#941
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
The FRS was ordered 2 (3?
) weeks ago. The CL is staying as its worthless ![Bored](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bored.gif)
I might still cancel it and switch to the BRZ, but there is another car that Im working on that Id much rather go with. Very similar price point, but this particular car has a fixed roof
![Scratch](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/scratch.gif)
![Bored](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bored.gif)
I might still cancel it and switch to the BRZ, but there is another car that Im working on that Id much rather go with. Very similar price point, but this particular car has a fixed roof
![Ninja](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ninja.gif)
#942
Senior Moderator
#943
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
Silly question, both the FRS/BRZ are drive-by-wire?
I'm guessing yes.
I'm guessing yes.
![hide](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/hide.gif)
#944
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Yep. From what Ive heard, its tuned nicely. Im going through pics from the auto show now, Ill post some later tonight after I process them.
#945
about the backseats, for shame. Though I guess if they didn't have any at all we'd be yelling out blasphemy much like people complained about the CR-Z. Lower insurance I guess, and a nice looking shelf for you to put groceries on.
another thing, aren't most if not all road cars these days drive-by-wire?
another thing, aren't most if not all road cars these days drive-by-wire?
#946
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
about the backseats, for shame. Though I guess if they didn't have any at all we'd be yelling out blasphemy much like people complained about the CR-Z. Lower insurance I guess, and a nice looking shelf for you to put groceries on.
another thing, aren't most if not all road cars these days drive-by-wire?
another thing, aren't most if not all road cars these days drive-by-wire?
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
And yes, damn near every car is DBW. It sucks, but if they can tune out all lag than
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
The following 2 users liked this post by iforyou:
civicdrivr (04-13-2012),
JS + XES (04-13-2012)
#948
Crazy. Gives Subaru dealers reason to mark up the BRZ if demand is as strong in the US
http://www.ft86club.com/?p=1463
http://www.ft86club.com/?p=1463
Subaru BRZ Japanese Market Deliveries Pushed to Next Year Due to High Demand
The Japanese daily Nikkei is reporting that due to overwhelming demand (orders), Japanese market deliveries of the Subaru BRZ will be pushed to January 2013.
The Gunma factory is unable to keep up with the production necessary to keep deliveries (which are already four times the amount that Fuji Heavy Industries had anticipated) on schedule.
This comes less than one month after the BRZ and FR-S began production last month on March 16th, and only two weeks after the BRZ went on sale in Japan on March 28th.
No word on whether the FR-S (86/GT-86) will be subject to the same delivery delays (although that seems very possible given its high demand as well) and it’s unclear yet how this will affect other markets’ deliveries, including the US and Canada.
The Japanese daily Nikkei is reporting that due to overwhelming demand (orders), Japanese market deliveries of the Subaru BRZ will be pushed to January 2013.
The Gunma factory is unable to keep up with the production necessary to keep deliveries (which are already four times the amount that Fuji Heavy Industries had anticipated) on schedule.
This comes less than one month after the BRZ and FR-S began production last month on March 16th, and only two weeks after the BRZ went on sale in Japan on March 28th.
No word on whether the FR-S (86/GT-86) will be subject to the same delivery delays (although that seems very possible given its high demand as well) and it’s unclear yet how this will affect other markets’ deliveries, including the US and Canada.
#950
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
This Subaru dealer that I had visited yesterday said they are getting the first one on mid-May.
And just for the record, paying mark-up for ANY car is stupid imo. It's just dumb.
And just for the record, paying mark-up for ANY car is stupid imo. It's just dumb.
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civicdrivr (04-16-2012)
#951
By the way, does anyone know how insurance companies are viewing this car? Hopefully they'll evaluate it more along the lines of an MX-5 instead of a WRX or RSX.
#952
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I think this is going to be put in line with WRX as far as the insurance rate is concerned. A shit load of idiot teenagers are going to rice the hell out of this car and wrap it around the trees.
#953
But if I can fit in it (I'm 6'2" and wider than I should be) I'll likely get one once the initial frenzy is over.
#954
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
![Werd](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif)
#955
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (8)
I never said that 0-60 is priority for me. But i was only wondering why is there such a huge difference in acceleration (Si 6.4 and FRS 7.3). I picked civic because its has similar power and weight a bit more so it looks like the RWD layout is what makes it slower at this stage. I would never compare this car to a civic lol.
#956
7# werC 2uoYeeS
iTrader: (1)
the amount of teenage ricer looking kids crowding around the FR-S and talking about the specs at the car show on sunday was too many for my taste. i just wanted to sit in it and compare it to the br-z which i did but there was just sooooo many teenagers examining the engine bay and mouthing off shit like they knew what to do.
the br-z display was way different. seems like none of those teenagers made it over to the br-z when i was there. maybe they couldn't read the map to see where the subaru section was?
#957
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (8)
+1 lol
This is exactly how i felt... Alot of teenagers by scion made me go to Subaru section. I think its well worth to pay an extra and get BRZ. I'll wait to test drive it and then i will decide since i need a new car anyway.
This is exactly how i felt... Alot of teenagers by scion made me go to Subaru section. I think its well worth to pay an extra and get BRZ. I'll wait to test drive it and then i will decide since i need a new car anyway.
Last edited by StreetKA; 04-17-2012 at 08:51 AM.
#958
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Teenagers will probably say, WHY WOULD YOU PAY EXTRA FOR THE SAME CAR???? I CAN HAZ MORE MOD WITH THAT MONEY. DRIFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT
I'm in for BRZ for sure.
I'm in for BRZ for sure.
#959
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I never said that 0-60 is priority for me. But i was only wondering why is there such a huge difference in acceleration (Si 6.4 and FRS 7.3). I picked civic because its has similar power and weight a bit more so it looks like the RWD layout is what makes it slower at this stage. I would never compare this car to a civic lol.
But, Ive read that the actual 0-60 time for the BRZ/FRS was ~6.7s, not 7.3. I believe it was Edmunds that got the 7.3s time, and Motor Trend got the 6.7.
#960
Moderator
I'm just imagining all the FRS-to-GT86-JDM...yo!-conversions that we'll see on the street.
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)