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Old 07-20-2021, 02:52 PM
  #761  
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Originally Posted by Comfy
About why Tesla decided to unleash half baked FSD beta…..

https://twitter.com/teslafruit/statu...970686987?s=21
You've been getting a lot better recently but this is the biggest load of bullshit you've posted in a long time. Autopilot to control a plane in the sky with relatively large distances in between units all being guided and flown by trained professionals is vastly different than that of a car on crowded public roads being driven by idiots.

Also, "beta" signifies incomplete which is what it is. If it "gets better every day" (it doesn't for the end user at least), that means it's not yet done. If it's done, I should be able to be complacent as the name "FULL self driving" implies. Also, my car absolutely does not get better every day as there are not software updates to improve it anywhere remotely close to every day.

Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
Is the same guy who incorrectly yet confidently stated that there was no redundant parts in Tesla's FSD system now saying that there's no evidence that vision can be better than radar, even though I posted a video explaining it that gave details and examples of where radar fails and visions succeeds

good thing we have time stamp support in Youtube links now, see below

https://youtu.be/a510m7s_SVI?t=1405
I explained everything to you on why those parts are not redundant and also did a live experiment on my own Tesla with the same components in question to demonstrate to you with real live data and results that they are, in fact, not redundant. I don't know what more to tell you.

Please provide tangible evidence that vision is better than radar or even lidar. I'm not watching a 40 minute video, I have better things to do with my time. There are probably many examples of situations where vision fails and radar succeeds.
Old 07-20-2021, 04:34 PM
  #762  
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
A video from Andrej Karpathy the director of artificial intelligence and Autopilot Vision at Tesla is "BS"? Who is a better source for info on Tesla FSD than the main guy overseeing the project?

LMAO
By your logic, the head of DOJ said Trump is innocent and it must be true right? Who is a better source for Info on crimes than the main guy overseeing the entire Department of Justice....
Old 07-20-2021, 05:18 PM
  #763  
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Come on, I can't be the only one cringing at this post. I know y'all won't admit it but that's some dumb shit. I provided video evidence and sensor data and you dismissed it because Trump's DOJ!?





So basically no expert can be trusted, all video evidence is fake because Trump's DOJ said he was innocent? Everything is a conspiracy? Everyone is corrupt? Everything is a scam? Because Trump's DOJ. Every truth in life that you disagree with can just be dismissed because they're just like Trump's DOJ. Everything and everyone who has a different opinion, fact-based or not, is a lying narcissist. I feel bad for you if that's how you see things in life.


Sorry, I got to add you to my blocklist.

I don't want to block y'all but when you consistently say asinine shit like this (he also said insane shit about the NTSB when they sided with Tesla in the Texas crash), I'm not going to waste my time any more, you're beyond help
Old 07-20-2021, 05:19 PM
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Anyways...

Old 07-20-2021, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA



Come on, I can't be the only one cringing at this post. I know y'all won't admit it but that's some dumb shit. I provided video evidence and sensor data and you dismissed it because Trump's DOJ!?





So basically no expert can be trusted, all video evidence is fake because Trump's DOJ said he was innocent? Everything is a conspiracy? Everyone is corrupt? Everything is a scam? Because Trump's DOJ. Every truth in life that you disagree with can just be dismissed because they're just like Trump's DOJ. Everything and everyone who has a different opinion, fact-based or not, is a lying narcissist. I feel bad for you if that's how you see things in life.


Sorry, I got to add you to my blocklist.

I don't want to block y'all but when you consistently say asinine shit like this (he also said insane shit about the NTSB when they sided with Tesla in the Texas crash), I'm not going to waste my time any more, you're beyond help

You are quoting an "expert" working for Tesla to prove a point made by Tesla? Seriously? I mean No shit he is gonna say what you wanna hear.. if he wanna keep working at Tesla. Of course it sounds like some dumb shit to you similar to what we said about Trump were all some dumb shit to Trumpettes... your head is so deep in Elon's ass that objectivity no longer exists when it comes to Tesla and Elon Musk.

and you have people here who went out of their way to actually TESTed it and you just pretend it didnt happen?

They are "similar" i think this was said several weeks ago already. But Nope you chose to ignore that too because it HAS to be better because someone working for Elon Musk said so in a youtube video

These results are the same as those the IIHS got when it tested an earlier Model 3 with radar, says David Aylor, manager of active safety testing at the IIHS. “The performance seems to be similar for both systems,” he told CR. The similar Tesla Model Y also uses a camera-based system but does not have a Top Safety Pick+ designation because it has yet to be tested, Aylor says.

“While we are very glad to see the system performs well in preventing crashes, ideally consumers would not have been in a holding pattern, waiting to find out if the car they purchased has vital safety features,” says CR’s Fisher.

Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-20-2021 at 05:36 PM.
Old 07-20-2021, 06:24 PM
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That said, we’re making our Supercharger network open to other EVs later this year.
All the BS going back and forth on the minutia of FSD and autopilot is not news, this here ^ is real news. The question is, who will be the first maker to build their car with a Tesla connector?

Biker, who thinks Aptera has had a deal for this for some time - the current prototype was already shown with a Tesla plug.
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Old 07-20-2021, 06:29 PM
  #767  
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Originally Posted by biker
All the BS going back and forth on the minutia of FSD and autopilot is not news, this here ^ is real news. The question is, who will be the first maker to build their car with a Tesla connector?

Biker, who thinks Aptera has had a deal for this for some time - the current prototype was already shown with a Tesla plug.
To be honest, in a way, i was hoping that Tesla would not share their charging station. Only then, it would force everyone else to step up their games to build more infrastructures and they have to do it fast.
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Old 07-20-2021, 07:46 PM
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In the EU and China Tesla 3/Y come with CCS ports, China has some weird dual port I think but it’s whatever their standard is. Like Elon said CCS was barely a thing when the Supercharger came out and it didn’t support the high speed charge rates.

So US vehicle have the proprietary port because that’s what the “legacy” supercharger infrastructure was designed for. I’d like to see them switch to CCS for the US or at least offer both ports on US models, then slowly move away from the proprietary port.
Old 07-20-2021, 08:12 PM
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China charge ports looks like chademo and a slower speed CCS




Europe 3/Y is CCS


US proprietary port. Euro S/X have this as well, may change after the refresh though


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Old 07-20-2021, 08:22 PM
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That said, we’re making our Supercharger network open to other EVs later this year.
I've been saying this for a long time. There should be no proprietary charging ports on evs. If the ev world were serious about getting EVs out to the masses, charging ports and infrastructure should be universal, and pricing should come down.
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Old 07-20-2021, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
To be honest, in a way, i was hoping that Tesla would not share their charging station. Only then, it would force everyone else to step up their games to build more infrastructures and they have to do it fast.
That is a very valid point. Let the legacy/ government step up the game and make it viable for non Tesla cars. The more EV charge points, the better for everyone.

Originally Posted by pttl
I've been saying this for a long time. There should be no proprietary charging ports on evs. If the ev world were serious about getting EVs out to the masses, charging ports and infrastructure should be universal, and pricing should come down.
That would happen after everyone has a viable charging infrastructure. As long as Tesla holds the reins, they’d expect to be paid more, and others would expect a free ride.
Old 07-20-2021, 10:08 PM
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Hence the slow rollout by manufacturers and reluctant acceptance of evs by consumers. Lose lose.
Old 07-21-2021, 09:05 AM
  #773  
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Originally Posted by biker
All the BS going back and forth on the minutia of FSD and autopilot is not news, this here ^ is real news. The question is, who will be the first maker to build their car with a Tesla connector?

Biker, who thinks Aptera has had a deal for this for some time - the current prototype was already shown with a Tesla plug.
I hope not. I don't want to wait for even longer at super chargers. Big part of buying a Tesla was the charging network, if other makes can use it too I probably would have reconsidered my purchase. Also, you don't need a connector on your car, just an adapter and a means for the car to handshake with the charger. My car came with a J1772 plug adapter and you can buy a CHAdeMO adaptor as well. Waiting for Tesla to sell a CCS adapter soon...

Originally Posted by oonowindoo
To be honest, in a way, i was hoping that Tesla would not share their charging station. Only then, it would force everyone else to step up their games to build more infrastructures and they have to do it fast.
This.

Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
In the EU and China Tesla 3/Y come with CCS ports, China has some weird dual port I think but it’s whatever their standard is. Like Elon said CCS was barely a thing when the Supercharger came out and it didn’t support the high speed charge rates.

So US vehicle have the proprietary port because that’s what the “legacy” supercharger infrastructure was designed for. I’d like to see them switch to CCS for the US or at least offer both ports on US models, then slowly move away from the proprietary port.
This is a legal thing there right? I remember reading something about that where EU doesn't allow proprietary connections for public utilities or something like that.
Old 07-21-2021, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
Come on, I can't be the only one cringing at this post. I know y'all won't admit it but that's some dumb shit. I provided video evidence and sensor data and you dismissed it because Trump's DOJ!?

So basically no expert can be trusted, all video evidence is fake because Trump's DOJ said he was innocent? Everything is a conspiracy? Everyone is corrupt? Everything is a scam? Because Trump's DOJ. Every truth in life that you disagree with can just be dismissed because they're just like Trump's DOJ. Everything and everyone who has a different opinion, fact-based or not, is a lying narcissist. I feel bad for you if that's how you see things in life.


Sorry, I got to add you to my blocklist.

I don't want to block y'all but when you consistently say asinine shit like this (he also said insane shit about the NTSB when they sided with Tesla in the Texas crash), I'm not going to waste my time any more, you're beyond help
Why don't you go test it out on your own Tesla and see if it works or not.

Oh wait...
Old 07-21-2021, 04:20 PM
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There seems to be a day and night difference between those that post videos of FSD and what Sam says.
I dunno Sam but as I understand, Autopilot and FSD have different codes and may not be operating similarly. Apart from the different viewpoints we are talking about, it may not be about the same thing after all.
I truly understand and appreciate your input about how and when autopilot works, since I won’t be trusting it either if it were behaving like a teenager driver.
My minivan with the latest and greatest radar based adaptive cruise behaves similarly and that’s why I don’t use it either even on long trips. It might brake gently sometimes to my satisfaction, but whenever the obstruction clears, it’s a wild ride with multiple downshifts and all sorts of dramas to reach the set speed, it’s not even funny. Someone forgot to tell the engineers that people tend to use adaptive cruise when they want a relaxed and peaceful ride.
Old 07-21-2021, 04:26 PM
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I don't know if FSD and autopilot use definitively different codes. My guess, based on Tesla's logic of standardization, is that they don't and autopilot is just a defeatured FSD but I could be wrong. Either way I'm going off of my first hand experience using the very latest Tesla. The system absolutely does not work with one camera unoperative. If it temporarily (<2-5s) loses view the system will probably still work fine but with permanent loss of view, it doesn't work.
Old 07-22-2021, 05:31 PM
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Whoops…….

Old 07-22-2021, 08:08 PM
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^ This video is a straight up lie and fabrication. Probably not even from a Tesla. The one dude who interviewed the dude from Tesla said so on Twitter. FSD is infalliable.
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Old 07-22-2021, 10:32 PM
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👀



According to Unplugged Performance they got a 6% increase in range at 70 mph when removing the side mirrors on a Model 3

Submit a comment: https://www.regulations.gov/commento...2019-0082-0024

Last edited by #1 STUNNA; 07-22-2021 at 10:46 PM.
Old 07-23-2021, 07:08 AM
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I’d say that’s a stupid move to remove side mirrors. Simply because of vision issues. Most people (past 50) have some amount of vision issues requiring use of bifocal lenses. Their eyes have a hard time transitioning from far view to near vision.
In a traditional mirror, even though you are looking at the mirror, you eyes don’t need to focus on the mirror. The focus will still be based on far vision as you look normally through the windscreen.
Things change when you have a screen instead of mirror. Your eyes need to focus on the near vision quickly and then adapt to far vision as you look alternately between windows and screen (which you are normally supposed to do while driving) and that will cause stress on eyes and issues related to safety.
Old 07-23-2021, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
I’d say that’s a stupid move to remove side mirrors. Simply because of vision issues. Most people (past 50) have some amount of vision issues requiring use of bifocal lenses. Their eyes have a hard time transitioning from far view to near vision.
In a traditional mirror, even though you are looking at the mirror, you eyes don’t need to focus on the mirror. The focus will still be based on far vision as you look normally through the windscreen.
Things change when you have a screen instead of mirror. Your eyes need to focus on the near vision quickly and then adapt to far vision as you look alternately between windows and screen (which you are normally supposed to do while driving) and that will cause stress on eyes and issues related to safety.
Your are killing the planet with thinking like that - just think of how many lives would be saved by the improved efficiency and decrease in pollution by doing away with physical mirrors.
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Old 07-23-2021, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
Your are killing the planet with thinking like that - just think of how many lives would be saved by the improved efficiency and decrease in pollution by doing away with physical mirrors.
Fair enough, then they should club the mirrorless technology with FSD and only offer that when you get that option. …..
Old 07-23-2021, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
Fair enough, then they should club the mirrorless technology with FSD and only offer that when you get that option. …..
So...we're all going to die then.
Old 07-23-2021, 09:28 AM
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Update time.

Took my longest trip yet in the Tesla last night, about 100 miles each way. I can talk more about how that was if people care (guessing most don't) but wanted to give an update on the autopilot stuff that we've been talking about and my thoughts thus far.
  • This thing absolutely cannot drive itself given the current software. I'm sure it can with the hardware but the control just isn't there. Disclaimer that I don't have the FSD 9 code on my car because it only comes if you have FSD and I don't. I have the most recent and up to date version of autopilot.
  • It's good at following lanes and lines most of the time. However, it gets very confused when there's a lane that's merging in/out from an on ramp or off ramp. As the lane gets "wider" when the ramp part starts/stops, the car just assumes it's one big ass lane and centers itself all the way across which is dangerous as people think you're going to take the exit. Also, even more dangerous, once you get to the point that the lane returns to normal size, it swerves over to center itself again and potentially cutting people off. This is only an issue if you're driving in the right lane but still a problem either way.
  • The speed control is too touchy, there needs to be a way to change this. If there's a car way up ahead slowing down to take an exit the car will slam on the brakes without cause or reason. Also, the car is set up to automatically slow down for on/off ramps if the cruise is set. This is great unless the GPS gets confused and thinks you're on a ramp rather than the middle of the fucking highway and decides that 70mph is no longer appropriate and it should be at 30mph and slams on the brakes. Had this happen to me multiple times in areas where road construction and stuff is going on or new roads and things that don't match the GPS road patterns. I'm not sure if you can turn this off or not but I'm going to find out.
  • Phantom braking is real. It randomly slammed on the brakes a couple times for no reason...or at least not a reason I could see. Only did it for a split second but 4 pot Brembos will slow the car down pretty fast and that's also super dangerous. Hopefully the next update, which should be coming soon, helps improve this more.
  • Looks like the interior camera is now in use to make sure the driver is paying attention. If I'm looking at the road while the car is driving, it only bongs at me every so often if the road is straight and not much traffic around. If the road is curvy and/or there's traffic, it bongs at you far more often. If you're not looking at the road, it doesn't just softly remind you with the bongs, it blares a siren lol.
Also, I absolutely roasted a BMW M4 off the end of an on ramp. He had a pretty surprised look on his face lol.
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
^ This video is a straight up lie and fabrication. Probably not even from a Tesla. The one dude who interviewed the dude from Tesla said so on Twitter. FSD is infalliable.
U know Trumpettes, i mean Muskettes are spreading fake news that match their narratives? :shocking: all too familiar.
Old 07-23-2021, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
So...we're all going to die then.

Yoke + Mirrorless+ FSD....

what could possibly go wrong..
Old 07-23-2021, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Update time.

Took my longest trip yet in the Tesla last night, about 100 miles each way. I can talk more about how that was if people care (guessing most don't) but wanted to give an update on the autopilot stuff that we've been talking about and my thoughts thus far.
  • This thing absolutely cannot drive itself given the current software. I'm sure it can with the hardware but the control just isn't there. Disclaimer that I don't have the FSD 9 code on my car because it only comes if you have FSD and I don't. I have the most recent and up to date version of autopilot.
  • It's good at following lanes and lines most of the time. However, it gets very confused when there's a lane that's merging in/out from an on ramp or off ramp. As the lane gets "wider" when the ramp part starts/stops, the car just assumes it's one big ass lane and centers itself all the way across which is dangerous as people think you're going to take the exit. Also, even more dangerous, once you get to the point that the lane returns to normal size, it swerves over to center itself again and potentially cutting people off. This is only an issue if you're driving in the right lane but still a problem either way.
  • The speed control is too touchy, there needs to be a way to change this. If there's a car way up ahead slowing down to take an exit the car will slam on the brakes without cause or reason. Also, the car is set up to automatically slow down for on/off ramps if the cruise is set. This is great unless the GPS gets confused and thinks you're on a ramp rather than the middle of the fucking highway and decides that 70mph is no longer appropriate and it should be at 30mph and slams on the brakes. Had this happen to me multiple times in areas where road construction and stuff is going on or new roads and things that don't match the GPS road patterns. I'm not sure if you can turn this off or not but I'm going to find out.
  • Phantom braking is real. It randomly slammed on the brakes a couple times for no reason...or at least not a reason I could see. Only did it for a split second but 4 pot Brembos will slow the car down pretty fast and that's also super dangerous. Hopefully the next update, which should be coming soon, helps improve this more.
  • Looks like the interior camera is now in use to make sure the driver is paying attention. If I'm looking at the road while the car is driving, it only bongs at me every so often if the road is straight and not much traffic around. If the road is curvy and/or there's traffic, it bongs at you far more often. If you're not looking at the road, it doesn't just softly remind you with the bongs, it blares a siren lol.
Also, I absolutely roasted a BMW M4 off the end of an on ramp. He had a pretty surprised look on his face lol.

Other than Tesla fanboys, normal people with some common sense would know that as of 2021, computer cannot drive itself on roads full of unexpected situations.
I broke my car in last weekend from LA to Santa Barbara.. There was a good 30 miles stretch had constructions. U know those narrow 2 lanes with a close barrier on the left with no shoulder. Uneven pavement right below your right tires that require sudden steering corrections and uneven colored pavement.... certain areas dont even have lane marked. sudden lane changes and all that. It would require a human's 100% focus, not only to keep your car in the lane and also to avoid others from hitting you.

I dont see how FSD or autopilot without human eyes can analyze all that 100% accurately...
Old 07-23-2021, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
I’d say that’s a stupid move to remove side mirrors. Simply because of vision issues. Most people (past 50) have some amount of vision issues requiring use of bifocal lenses. Their eyes have a hard time transitioning from far view to near vision.
In a traditional mirror, even though you are looking at the mirror, you eyes don’t need to focus on the mirror. The focus will still be based on far vision as you look normally through the windscreen.
Things change when you have a screen instead of mirror. Your eyes need to focus on the near vision quickly and then adapt to far vision as you look alternately between windows and screen (which you are normally supposed to do while driving) and that will cause stress on eyes and issues related to safety.
We've already had this discussion back in 2019 with the Cybertruck

Originally Posted by kurtatx
That's not a legal mirror. In fact, it's not a mirror at all.
Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
it's legal in many countries already, and will eventually become legal in the US.

Honda is making a cute EV with cameras for mirrors, there are two screens at each edge of the dash that act as the side view mirrors, I've heard good things about this setup



Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
Here you go Kurt, I'm sure you're ok with this because it's Audi

When it launches, the new 2020 Audi E-Tron will feature what the company calls "virtual exterior mirrors" as an option. The system will use small exterior side cameras whose images are displayed on 7-inch OLED screens in the cabin.






https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...irrors-camera/
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Old 07-23-2021, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Update time.

Took my longest trip yet in the Tesla last night, about 100 miles each way. I can talk more about how that was if people care (guessing most don't) but wanted to give an update on the autopilot stuff that we've been talking about and my thoughts thus far.
  • This thing absolutely cannot drive itself given the current software. I'm sure it can with the hardware but the control just isn't there. Disclaimer that I don't have the FSD 9 code on my car because it only comes if you have FSD and I don't. I have the most recent and up to date version of autopilot.
  • It's good at following lanes and lines most of the time. However, it gets very confused when there's a lane that's merging in/out from an on ramp or off ramp. As the lane gets "wider" when the ramp part starts/stops, the car just assumes it's one big ass lane and centers itself all the way across which is dangerous as people think you're going to take the exit. Also, even more dangerous, once you get to the point that the lane returns to normal size, it swerves over to center itself again and potentially cutting people off. This is only an issue if you're driving in the right lane but still a problem either way.
  • The speed control is too touchy, there needs to be a way to change this. If there's a car way up ahead slowing down to take an exit the car will slam on the brakes without cause or reason. Also, the car is set up to automatically slow down for on/off ramps if the cruise is set. This is great unless the GPS gets confused and thinks you're on a ramp rather than the middle of the fucking highway and decides that 70mph is no longer appropriate and it should be at 30mph and slams on the brakes. Had this happen to me multiple times in areas where road construction and stuff is going on or new roads and things that don't match the GPS road patterns. I'm not sure if you can turn this off or not but I'm going to find out.
  • Phantom braking is real. It randomly slammed on the brakes a couple times for no reason...or at least not a reason I could see. Only did it for a split second but 4 pot Brembos will slow the car down pretty fast and that's also super dangerous. Hopefully the next update, which should be coming soon, helps improve this more.
  • Looks like the interior camera is now in use to make sure the driver is paying attention. If I'm looking at the road while the car is driving, it only bongs at me every so often if the road is straight and not much traffic around. If the road is curvy and/or there's traffic, it bongs at you far more often. If you're not looking at the road, it doesn't just softly remind you with the bongs, it blares a siren lol.
Also, I absolutely roasted a BMW M4 off the end of an on ramp. He had a pretty surprised look on his face lol.
Great review. Looks like autopilot has got some more work to do. Thanks.
Per Elon’s tweet possibly version 10 or version 11(for sure) will run a common code for both autopilot and FSD. That should put an end to this issue. Thanks.
Old 07-23-2021, 11:31 AM
  #790  
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Originally Posted by Comfy
Great review. Looks like autopilot has got some more work to do. Thanks.
Per Elon’s tweet possibly version 10 or version 11(for sure) will run a common code for both autopilot and FSD. That should put an end to this issue. Thanks.

you are telling me that autopilot is not perfect?
Old 07-23-2021, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Yoke + Mirrorless+ FSD....

what could possibly go wrong..
Don't forget about when the car decides what gear out of PRND you need to be in automatically.

Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Other than Tesla fanboys, normal people with some common sense would know that as of 2021, computer cannot drive itself on roads full of unexpected situations.
I broke my car in last weekend from LA to Santa Barbara.. There was a good 30 miles stretch had constructions. U know those narrow 2 lanes with a close barrier on the left with no shoulder. Uneven pavement right below your right tires that require sudden steering corrections and uneven colored pavement.... certain areas dont even have lane marked. sudden lane changes and all that. It would require a human's 100% focus, not only to keep your car in the lane and also to avoid others from hitting you.

I dont see how FSD or autopilot without human eyes can analyze all that 100% accurately...
It can't, it honestly cannot do it right now and thinking it can is putting yourself and everyone around you at substantial risk of accident, injury, or death.

To be fair, it's absolutely wonderful on long distances with wide open space and well marked roads to just relax and let the car drive while you just tug the wheel every couple minutes to let it know you're there...but our Subaru does that too at about 85% as good.

Originally Posted by Comfy
Great review. Looks like autopilot has got some more work to do. Thanks.
Per Elon’s tweet possibly version 10 or version 11(for sure) will run a common code for both autopilot and FSD. That should put an end to this issue. Thanks.
How many years do I have to wait for that? Asking for a friend.

FWIW, the forums are fucking FURIOUS over the FSD thing. People bought a Tesla 5+ years ago with the FSD option under the promise that it would be out within the next year or two. Now they are ready to move their car on and still no FSD so they spent all that money for nothing. Other people bought FSD before the new computer started getting installed and now have to pay $1000 (discounted from $1500) to get the right computer installed in their car that allegedly should have done it from the get go.

Also, the forums are ripe with issues and dangerous errors the cars are making while running under FSD. It's not there yet and being a guinea pig for this is worse than being on a phase 1 trial of a drug that will either kill you or making you slightly less anxious. Not to mention that in the Tesla app it literally says "Full Self Driving does not make the car autonomous, full driver attention is required at all times" which is the exact opposite of full self driving.
Old 07-23-2021, 01:23 PM
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Youtube videos > People on the forum with real issues

Those people on Tesla forum with issues apparently haven't watched enough Youtube Propaganda videos. The combination of "facts" and Praying to Elon would solve all issues...
Old 07-23-2021, 01:30 PM
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You should know by now that the Youtuber with 1k shares of Tesla and an affiliate link in the description knows way more than the majority of owners and is in no way just trying to manufacture excitement/make money.
Old 07-23-2021, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
you are telling me that autopilot is not perfect?
That is not FSD.
Old 07-24-2021, 07:40 AM
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Tesla's Autopilot driver-assist system has been on the market long enough to generate plenty of data about its ability to identify (of not) impending obstacles, from other vehicles to various concrete structures. After several years on the market, most of the items that tend to confuse Autopilot on a regular basis have been fairly well studied, if not completely eliminated from the roster of things that tend to produce unexpected reactions from the system. Some of the more consequential items have tended to be road lane markings, since Autopilot has relies on them to steer itself within a lane. Fire trucks parked in highway lanes while responding to emergency calls have been another not uncommon foe for the system.

One issue we hadn't really seen until now—because traffic sign recognition has not been activated for a significant period of time as a part of Tesla's Full Self-Driving suite—is the system mistaking the moon for a yellow traffic light.

A Tesla owner recently posted a video showing the Full Self-Driving system confusing the Moon for a yellow traffic light, which was prompting the car to slow down.

Of course, the yellow tint of the Moon could be related to wildfire smoke in the atmosphere over parts of the US, so perhaps this issue won't be one of any regularity, but we had wondered in the past about various semi-autonomous systems' abilities to identify and correctly distinguish and respond to traffic lights, as such systems have arrived in production passenger cars. Tesla's system is not based on camera sight alone, as it also relies on map data of intersection and light locations, with the system designed to slow the vehicle down for all detected lights.

If anything, we'd be more concerned about such systems correctly responding to traffic lights that apply specifically to them and cars in their lanes, as some intersections can be very complex or positioned too close to each other for traffic light recognition systems to pick out the correct ones. As we all know, traffic lights can at times be positioned in front of other more distant traffic lights, or amid a jumble of other traffic signs, as in the real world intersections can have many different lights applying to various lanes of traffic. Autonomous developers have also had to contend with intersections where traffic light positions are either too high and too close to the front of the vehicle to be seen by the camera-based systems interpreting them. Various light conditions can also easily interfere with all camera-based systems, not just Tesla's.

One of the ways in which automakers and autonomous system developers have sought to bypass this issue entirely is though traffic lights that communicate with the systems in the cars themselves, via vehicle-to-infrastructure (V2I) technology. For example, Audi's Traffic Light Information system, deployed in certain cities since 2016, relies on real-time signal information from a traffic management system via an 4G LTE data connection.

"When the light is red, the TLI feature will display the time remaining until the signal changes to green in the instrument cluster in front of the driver or in the head-up display (if equipped). This 'time-to-green' information helps reduce stress by letting the driver know approximately how much time remains before the light changes," Audi says.
Of course's Audi's system is far from functioning at every intersection, as it's hardware-dependent.

Tesla's system, on the other hand, relies on visual interpretation of the lights rather than V2I technology, and doesn't rely on signals to the traffic lights themselves. It's more versatile, as we have seen, but also somewhat more prone to misinterpreting them.

Of course, one other concern with various systems continuously misinterpreting traffic lights, not just Tesla's system, is that if the vehicle makes braking and acceleration decisions based on erroneous sensor data, then it can reduce its speed on the highway and possibly prompt a vehicle behind it to rear-end it. And as much as the Moon can be mistaken for a yellow traffic light, we have a feeling that the sun could be a much more frequent culprit of the same phenomenon, in addition to other circular lights such as overhead street lighting.
Tesla FSD Mistakes Moon for Yellow Traffic Light (autoweek.com)
Old 07-24-2021, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
you are telling me that autopilot is not perfect?
show me another radar / lidar based system, that can “ see” the surroundings like this.

that more than actually a human can see

https://twitter.com/wrighty_tweet/status/1415025498212683784?s=21




Last edited by Comfy; 07-24-2021 at 09:29 AM.
Old 07-24-2021, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
That is not FSD.
Venmo me $200 for the one month FSD subscription and I'll do the testing and report back.
Old 07-24-2021, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
show me another radar / lidar based system, that can “ see” the surroundings like this.

that more than actually a human can see

https://twitter.com/wrighty_tweet/st...212683784?s=21

https://twitter.com/28delayslater/st...206534658?s=21
It's not because the vision cameras see the same as you or I unless they see a different wavelength...which they don't.

Also, what other system can do it? Waymo. Because they already have a L5 system up and operating on the road today right now that you can ride in.
Old 07-24-2021, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
It's not because the vision cameras see the same as you or I unless they see a different wavelength...which they don't.

Also, what other system can do it? Waymo. Because they already have a L5 system up and operating on the road today right now that you can ride in.
In fact they do see more, because our vision is limited by what we can see from windscreens, windows and mirrors (with blind spots) in the general direction we are looking at a point in time. These cameras can see and FSD software act upon all the time more or less 360 degrees. That is not up for debate.
Your comparison to waymo is like saying there are subway trains/ trams running autonomous in airports along the predetermined tracks.
Old 07-24-2021, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by civicdrivr
You should know by now that the Youtuber with 1k shares of Tesla and an affiliate link in the description knows way more than the majority of owners and is in no way just trying to manufacture excitement/make money.
This drives me nuts.

If you post your referral code on your YouTube page, you are a paid spokesperson.
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