Collective27

BMW prices are so out of control is humorous....i love how they charge for metalic paint and seat warmers lol

cob3683

I just went to BMWUSA.com and loaded out at a 330i and it only came to $51,315

A fully loaded 325i was $48,315



Edmunds numbers are a little off

Belzebutt

Holy crap that's almost the same milage as the TSX, on a 300+ hp car!

Speed_Racer

Meh. That's retail. My boss just ordered one for $700 over invoice. And this is in the Bay Area. Total came to about $43,000.

I don't remember all the options but i believe it was something like this:
330i
6 speed manual
Sport Package
Navi
Metallic Paint
Leather
Active Steering
Satellite Radio
Power Rear Sunshade

chiawei

I guess that omeone deliberately BSing to make a point.

For example, you can't choose BMW assist, leather and premium pkg together. BECAUSE BMW ASSIST AND LEATHER IS INCLUDED IN PREMIUM PKG. Same holds true to cold weather pkg and heater seat.

A fully loaded 330i with all option will just break $50k. But it offers features not even on the IS. A fully loaded IS is at $48k with active cruise control.

In addition to pay retail for a 330i is stupid. Because you can get a hefty discount on european delivery.

I just finished ordering my wife's 330i tonight.

here is actual price of 330i.
330i $30,975
automatic $1,210
comfort acess $455
rear sunshade $525
PDC (parking sensor) $320
Active cruise control- $2,000
Navigaion with voice control- $1,820
premium pkg (leather, power folding mirror, BMW assist with bluetooth) $2,000
Sports pkg- $1455
destination- $695.
Dealer profit $1,000.
Total $42,455. ( you can add another $430 for metallic paint, but my wife want alpine white this time around, so no metallic paint charge).

I also get another 1k discount being BMWCCA member.

Total paymet. $42,455+339 (tags)+$3715 tax= $46,509- $1k BMWCCA rebate= $45,509.

My car MSRP at us would have been. $47,995, invoice would be $43,965.

Like I said. In order for IS350 to be equipped the way my wife's 330i is equipped, I am looking at $45k MSRP. Even if lexus eventually discount on the IS350 (say $3k). A loaded IS350 will cost me $42,000.

So simple calculation.

330i- $42455+339+3715=$46,509- 1K BMWCCA rebate= $45,509.
IS350- $42,000+337+3675=$46,012.

330i comes with free maint and brakes coverage for 4 years. (worth about $3k).

Total cost IS350-$49,012 vs $45,509. A whopping $3500 difference in favor of BMW.

TinkySD

How can anyone assume there aren't going to be equally good deals to be had on the IS?

chiawei

There is something called ED (european delivery).

BMW ED program comes with huge discount. Moreover, a lot of dealer like ED deals because it does not come out of their allocation. So any additional car the dealer sold with ED is extra $$$ for them (except the M car).

I just finished paper work on my wife's ED 330i tonight after confirming the pricing of IS350.

ED purchases are typically $1k to $1.5k over the ED invoice.

C&D never mention that, because a lot of people does not know about it and only pay attention to a sticker that is basically useless for buying BMW.

ED invoices can be found at bimmerfest.com.

Bascially, with ED. You order car about 8 weeks prior to pick up at Munich. You have to pay for your own airfare. (BMW has special deal with lufuthansa, and my flight is about $400 for two roundtrip out of SFO). You can stay up to 6 month at europe. BMW will pay for all insurance and registration on the car during your stay at europe.

You can pickup the car and return it to BMW shipping agency at same day (HARMS) or you can keep it 6 month in europe before returning it. BMW will then ship your car back to the state free of charge.

So in my wife's case, we got discount of $5500 from US MSRP on the ED program. My wife and I are planning a 5 day short vacation in europe. We will probably spend a max $3k during our 5 day visit ($400 for airfare, $400 for hotel- courtesy of priceline, and generous $2200 for spenind money for 5 days).

On top of that since i am BMWCCA member for more than a year prior to my purchase, we also get $1k in BMWCCA rebate.

So $6500 in total discount and out of that may be $3k to pay for my vacation to europe.

chiawei

Because you can't.

Lexus does not offer european delivery with huge discount nor does it offer club rebate like BMW does.

Even if I can get $3k off sticker on the loaded IS350. IS350 still will cost me at leat $3500 more to own through out the 4 year warranty period (due to free maint on the BMW and rebate).

Unless lexus is willing to sell IS350 at $6500 off MSRP (which is about $2.5k under invoice), there is no way IS350 is a better deal than 330i.

This is true number when shopping between these two brand.

With BMW you can be a cheap ass and stay only one day and eat McDonalds. That would probaly cost you around $500 to $600 on top of the car. Even adding the extra expense, you are still looking at $6k savings in BMW.

bkknight369

you're kidding right? you're comparing the EUROPEAN DELIVERY price of the bimmer to the base msrp of the is350? why not just compare theIS to a 'slightly used' 330i while you're at it...

like the bimmer for the look, the feel, or the style...but dont tell me you like the bimmer better because its cheaper

95gt

why is he comparing apples to oranges. Compare sticker to sticker and if you can get a great deal on either one than good for you but not everyone can get your deal or wants to go the ED route.



edit: oh yeah how come he doesn't add in the price for the "European Vacation" to his numbers? Or is he getting over there free of charge as well?

Shawn S

Well, in the guys defense he DOES add that in there.
The European Delivery does lower the price quite a bit even after you figure in airfare & hotel fees.
I looked into this when I was considering an M3 before buying the 2003 CL.

chiawei

ED price is price i am paying for the car. Like i have said earlier. You can be a cheap a$$ and fly out to pickup a car and would cost you at most $600 to pick it up, drop it off same day, and fly back.

Last time I check, my number include a $3k discount on the IS (which you are not going to get for at least 6 month, because lexus is sending very few IS over).

The simple truth is that at least for next 6 month waiting for IS price to come down, one can go to ED route on E90 and save at least $6k (flying out and return same day- which is allowed).

Even with me staying 5 days in europe. There is no way I will spend close to that. I have said it clearly, at most I am going to spend $3k for these 5 days ($400 for airfare for 2, $400 for hotel through priceline, and $2200 for other expense for two for 5 days).

No matter how you look at things, IS is now more expensive to own.

gavriil

You are assuming that Lesus dealers wont do the same in the case of the IS. If BMW will discount, Lexus will also, if not more aggressively so.

gavriil

If I am "BSing", I am not doing it deliberately. I just followed what Edmunds.com showed. Maybe their system is not built to disallow me from selecting options that cannot be both selected.

chiawei

No matter how much discount lexus dealer can do. Lexus will not lose money selling the IS.

The price difference between invoice and MSRP is probably $4k at most.

There is no program such as ED on lexus which lowers the cost dramatically.

A good shopper would simply take one day off an fly out to munich and save significant amount on ED. If he is even more savy, he would spent $100 a year before buying the car for a BMWCCA membership and save another $1,000.

My example is very clear. If one has the time to take one day off and pull a same day ED (which about 70% of ED is one day or less). You are at most adding less than $1k in additional expense. But you are getting at least $6k in saving in return.

Unless lexus is willing to discount $6000+ from MSRP on a new IS right now. It simply makes no financial sense. Period.

gavriil

EDIT

gavriil

Sorry. Where do you get $30,975 for the 330i from? According to Edmunds the MSRP base price for the 330i is $36,600 and the invoice price is $33,485. Is that Euro delivery then?

95gt

But from his math work on page 35 I don't see that anywhere in his totals.

And actually he contradicts himself.



ED purchases are typically $1k to $1.5k over the ED invoice.

Total paymet. $42,455+339 (tags)+$3715 tax= $46,509- $1k BMWCCA rebate= $45,509.

My car MSRP at us would have been. $47,995, invoice would be $43,965.


From the above he is getting it below invoice, over 1500 dollars under it, which is just amazing. Not sure if that is right, or is ED invoice different than regular invoice?

gavriil

Guys you cant compare Euro Delivery for the BMW with dealer price for the Lexus. Most people will not go to Germany to get their car. If you will, that's fine for you, but to compare the two cars' pricing, we should stick to official pricing from both manufacturers for now.

Here is what I expect to see in reality after the IS starts selling in bulk out there.

The IS350, similarly equipped, will be slightly lower priced than the 330i (and the 330xi). Maybe $1500 or a little more. And it makes sense if it were so because Lexus is the one traying to catch up right now in this segment. They have to be more competitive in pricing.

gavriil

How is it more expensive when you take ED out of the equation?

cob3683

I posted this last page gav and I'm not sure if you saw it. Edmunds will double select items when building a car on their website.

gavriil

Yeah I saw your post and i totally believe it.

Still, my point stands. You cant make an IS go all the way above 51K. So...

95gt

but with ED delivery........

cob3683

Yep.

I am holding off judgement on the IS350 until I drive it next week in ATL against the 330. Both cars are on my short list for next fall and it will be interesting to see which one comes out on top.

Crazy Bimmer

Does the IS offer things like Active Steering.. Comfort Access, and Active Cruise Control? Im sure if lexus did then it would easily go 51k or more.



Lets also not forget bmw has free maintenance for 4/50k

dom

Whats Comfort Access?

Crazy Bimmer

Lexus might offer that though... i cant remember

dom

Thats what I thought it was. Just presumed the IS had that.

The RL has it and I think GS has it as well

Maybe an option on the IS.

gavriil

First, we dont know the list of options for the IS yet. It has not been released in detail. Yet.

But seriously though. Journalists who drive cars or a living say they dont feel anything of the claimed theory of the Active Steering. I mean BMW sometimes makes me feel that it comes up with technology just so they can charge for it.

About comfort access, I dont know. It'd be nice to have and I am guessing it might.

Also some form of Active Cruise Control should be available also. I am not sure though. We'll see.

But even if the IS did not have the two last options, I am sure one can find certain things that the IS will have that the 330i will not. In the end a buyer makes a decision about these things beign important to them or not and makes the appropriate choice.

The free maintenance, I see very little value there and if anything I dont like it. I prefer to change my own oil so I put in the best oil I can find and it's better NOT to have to change brake pads and windshield wipers and air filters often, than having to change them often and them being free.

As a LExus and Acura owner, I can attest to the fact that these cars spoil you as far as maintenance. You dont have to worry about pretty much anything, except oil.

gavriil

Comfort Access
Includes Comfort Access remote keyfob. Comfort Access allows the user to unlock and enter the car and start/stop the engine without using the key or keyfob, as long as the user has the keyfob in his or her possession.

vwong

In 330i, the Comfort Access is $500. In IS350 (even in the IS250), the Smart Access (just like the BMW's Comfort Access) is standard.

dom

If it was standard, then I'm sure gav and others would have noticed it during the Lexus drive event and made mention of it?

vwong

It was listed in the official specs published by Lexus. And the reps at the CA Auto Show confirmed that it is a standard item in both IS250 and IS350. How do you know if I don't know this stuff? I've already put a deposit on one. I've been following the 2nd gen IS news since its debut back in Geneva.

dom

I'm not suggested you don't know

Just saying gavriil just drove an IS350 and he doesn't know if it was there. I'd think that if it was there it would have been pointed out/noticeable at some point during the event.

And how do I know you do know this stuff?

gavriil

Dont be so sure. I did not have time to check out options when I got in any car in the Lexus event. I wanted to drive the cars in a closed course.

dom

So I presume the key was in the ignition and the car was on when you got in?

gavriil

From a "meaningful" (and that is somewhat subjective, but most of us will mostly agree on what it means) options perspective, both the 330i and the IS350 will be very close. That's not what's going to make the difference in the final purchasing decision of a given potential customer.

People will choose one over the other with things at the top of their list like:

1. Brand name/recognition/image
2. Exterior Looks
3. Perception of Quality
4. Price
5. Test Drive
6. Other secondary factors

gavriil

All cars were on when anyone got it. Watch my video in the Taste of Lexus Event thread. It's stickied.

Crazy Bimmer

Oh I agree on everything.. just saying to be comparing both cars fully optioned out is silly. Most people wont even buy those pricey options on the BMW anyways, so in the end its stil almost the same price as the IS300.

Also the free maintenance doesnt change your wipers and brakes often. Only when needed.. so if you go past 50k miles without issues then you wont get the new goods. As for oil, BMW and audi use castrol synth which is plenty good.
Plus who we kidding, the average owner wont change their own oil on these cars.

biker

Folks, is it only obvious to me? Comfort Access on BMW = Keyless Access on Lexus = fob in pocket unlocks door and you start the car with the START button.

The prices seem reasonable but sales might depend on option combinations available on lots.

I might consider a base IS250 for 28K.

Biker, who wonders if a cloth moonroofless combo is a possibility as a special order.