dom

Not really. What is it?

charliemike

VW/Audi?

Moog-Type-S

puff-puff give-give

Moog-Type-S

...but Honda got it wrong....it should be in the cars not the bikes....the same way the turbo four should be in the TSX not in the SUV.

biker

Give that man
Ever since the current gen RL came out there seems to be this trend to turn Acura into a volume, lower cost reliable Audi. From using platforms/parts from their bigger relatives, to nice interiors, to AWD (with RWD bias), DSG, the commonality is certainly there. Diesel will be next. The only thing that is missing is the exterior design - Audi has it right, Acura does not.

Moog-Type-S

^^ "If" that were true, Acura is missing more than just diesel engines, they are missing many gasoline engine options as well, technology features, missing many vehicle products in their line-up as well...not to mention a flagship and a Halo car......and yes the Acura designs are HORRIBLE too.

"If" Acura/Honda want to be the new VW/Audi.....they have a very long way to go.

...but then again we are kind of used to that...Acura has been promising things for DECADES.

phee

iTrader: (5)

one step at a time moog. one step at a time.

Moog-Type-S

You are correct, sir....step 1 starts 2009....step 1.1 starts in 2015....step 1.3 starts in 2019...step 2 starts in 2025.....

Acura 12 step to tier one program: All in due time. :wink:

vwong

I hear this all the time from people who own one of these transmissions (DCT, DSG, SMG, etc.). Please don't kid yourself. You do have that "D" on the shift gate, don't you? Then, it's an automatic transmission because the computer can shift for you. Having the clutch in between the engine and the transmission does not automatically mean that it is a manual transmission.

biker

The TSX has an engine option that it didn't have before. SH-AWD is right around the corner. The wagon is also probably around the corner. The Halo car is probably done - they are just waiting for the right time to launch it. I assume the future RL will be more of a halo car. To keep their "green" image they won't have high HP models. It's unlikely that they'll have all of the models Audi has but they don't need to - just the 95% that will satisfy the masses.

JDM Inspired

interesting.........

Moog-Type-S

ummm he did say "techincally"

Moog-Type-S

TSX got a new engine...but it's the same old engine...just the first time in the TSX......why didn't it get diesel?....why not the Turbo 4?....where is the direct injection?

The TSX wagon is not going to happen.
I wish it would, but sadly, no.

I dunno how the RL is going to be a Halo car.

So Acura will not only still have low tq #'s but soon low hp#'s as well?

Acura has a lot of models in the line-up to fill before it can satisfy 95% of the masses....no?

dom

A3 = TSX
A4 = TL
A6 = RL
Q7 = MDX
Q5 = RDX
A5 = ?
S5 = ?
S4 = ?
A8 = ?
S6 = ?
RS Models = ?
R8 = LoL
Turbos = ?
DSG in cars = ?

I think its closer to 50% of models but I get your point. I don't think they're anywhere even close to being the Japanese Audi but that's just my

Moog-Type-S

^^ Well Acura does have a turbo....it's just in the wrong car.

biker

I said no HP models, meaning no S or RS variants like Audi has. If coupes make enough of a come back Acura will make up something - I mean they did copy BMW to make the X6 like ZDX. The models listed above without equivalent Acura models probably make up less then 10% of the volume all together. The DSG is coming as we can see from the thread - they just have in their bikes first.

My main point was that the trend is there - how close they are or getting is certainly debateable. The other point is that they will not follow Lexus and Infiniti in the RWD/V8 way of trying to get to "Tier 1".

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

I would be more inclined to view the match up being the following (although that's now what it presently is).

A3 = ?
A4 = TSX
A5 = ?
A6 = TL
A7 = ?
A8 = RL
Q5 = RDX
Q7 = MDX
? = ZDX
TT = ?
S5 = ?
S4 = ?
S6 = ?
TT-S = ?
RS4 = ?
RS6 = ?
R8 = LoL
Turbos = ?
DSG in cars = ?
Diesels = ?

Look at all those question marks.

The TSX should go up agains the A4, and the TL against the A6. The RL as technologically advanced as it is, isn't going to make them a tier 1. They are going to have recreate the car from the ground up and highly refine it to make themselves a player. They need a flagship series, and sport coupes to be considered T1. They've already got the SUV's and lower model sedans.

chill_dog

There's no guarantee of that.


I agree, that's how they should match up...and there are a lot of gaps.

Colin

If I were Acura and I had a brand spankin' new Dual Clutch Transmission, what car would I debut it in?

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

a lot of gaps is an understatement. If you look into the very near past and future....

A3 Sedan = ?
A3 Wagon = ?
A4 = TSX
A4 Avant = ?
A5 = ?
A5 Cabriolet = ?
A5 Sportback = ?
A6 = TL
A6 Avant = ?
A7 = ?
A8 = RL
A8 L = ?
Q5 = RDX
Q7 = MDX
? = ZDX
TT = ?
TT Roadster = ?
S4 = ?
S4 Avant = ?
S4 Cabriolet = ?
S5 = ?
S5 Cabriolet = ?
S6 = ?
S6 Avant = ?
TT-S = ?
TT-S Roadster = ?
RS4 = ?
RS4 Avant = ?
RS4 Cabriolet = ?
RS6 = ?
RS6 Avant = ?
R8 = LoL
Turbos = ?
DSG in cars = ?
Diesels = ?

A similar graph can be created to compare to BMW and Merc, and the same conclusion will be made. Acura needs to step up and create more models for the public to choose from as well as increasing luxury and build quality (types of materials used, options, etc.).

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Their best selling model, the A4.

Thereby they can mass produce the parts associated with it to bring costs down.

And since the A3 and A4 share motor/transmission setups, it can be put in the A3 as well. And since the A3/A4 motor is also used in the Jetta, Golf, Passat and other vehicles, it opens the door for easier expansion into VW's products.

Moog-Type-S

Knowing Acura they would put it in the MDX or RDX.
If it makes you and wonder why they would do it.....that's exactly what Acura would do.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

I was thinking Audi when I was posting.

Acura you ask, I'd say they should put it in the TL, but knowing acura they probably would put it in the RL or MDX.

Colin

LOL, does that make you an Audiot?

They normally debut new tech in the top of the line product. If you put it in the TL first, then people would say the NSX uses the TL transmission. Remember that in North America the NSX debuted VTEC, and the RL SH-AWD.

CarbonGray Earl

I'd put it in the TSX, since its the closest thing to a 'driver's car' that they have.

If you put it in the TSX, it also might be applicable overseas to the Accord Euro.

Of course, that's unlikely to happen.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

I understand your point about debuting a tech in the top of the line product, and it should be debuted in the RL or whichever model is the leading model in that category (sedan, sports coupe, etc) that can make use of the technology in question AND can help improve sales or improve the brand.

Right now, adding a dual clutch to the RL won't improve the RL sales and it certainly won't help improve their brand image. Hence adding to the TL would make sense to me.

knavinusa

Actually, it wouldn't be so bad in the RL. At least it's not an SUV, and since DSG generally shifts smoother than an auto, it'd be nice in a luxury car. Also, this should fix the rather poor shift quality on their automatics.

But they'll probably put it in the MDX.

Colin

But what if it was ready to go in the next NSX? The cancellation of the program meant they needed additional time to adapt the longitudinal mounting to the transverse mounting so it can be used in other models. Just a thought to consider.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

A DSG is an Auto. Just a better version of previous automatic transmissions that had manual mode option.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

They already designed it to work with SH-AWD so why not put it in the TL, RL, MDX and RDX?

If adding the dual-clutch system increases sales of those vehicles, then that extra capital could be used to develop the transverse version to be added to the other trims of those vehicles and the TSX (if sh-awd doesn't come to that model)?

Colin

The interesting thing is that this would mean two parallel transmission programs. The conventional transverse 6AT that they are releasing for the MDX and ZDX, and a DCT (of unknown gear count) for longitudinal mounting, probably in the sports cars and the next generation of 'tier 1' sedans. I'm no engineer, but maybe someone can chime in. Is it easy to change a transverse tranny to a longitudinal mount and visa versa?

knavinusa

I beg to differ. When my DSG shifts in auto mode it is far smoother than any conventional torque-converter automatic.



I'm no engineer either, but I imagine it'd be easier to go transverse -> longitudinal than vice versa due to the need for transverse setups to be compact.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Quit while you're ahead. :troutslap

A DSG will always be an auto. PERIOD. Just because it gives you the choice of when to shift, doesn't make it a manual.

Now if one day manual transmissions completely cease to exist, then, and only then, maybe it can be considered a manual transmission. But a manual transmission is one in which you HAVE to always change gears yourself without any automation of ANY sort.

One of the reasons behind creating DSG's or auto's with manual mode was to give people the sense they were driving a manual without the need of a manually operated clutch. This isn't the same by any means. By the way, have you driven a manual?

knavinusa

I think you misunderstood my point. I never meant to claim that the DSG is somehow a "manual" transmission. My point is that compared to an auto with a torque converter, the DSG is far smoother and quicker.

Of course I've driven a manual. My other car is a stick.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Ok, just checking. From the wording it was sounding like you were making a claim that the DSG was a manual. But I totally agree, the DSG is definitely quicker than the standard torque converter auto setup, just not as fun to drive as a manual.

Good, you are one of the enlightened few.

JD23

I think he was trying to say that although a DSG functions more like a conventional auto than a manual, mechanically, it is closer to a manual because it has clutches, but no torque converter.

Colin

Judging from the prototype photos and the video we've seen of the NSX replacement at Nuremberg, I'm going to say that it is probably a front mid-engined car with a longitudinal engine and transmission. IMO, this chassis would have also done double duty as the RL replacement when the current car ran its course (and probably the 2014 TL). The economic situation has caught everyone off guard, and now all the plans are in limbo. BUT what do you do with your new DCT? It's made for longitudinal mounting?

knavinusa

Maybe it's time for Honda to start thinking about some rear-wheel based setups?

If anything, they should bring out a full RWD or rear-biased AWD (like Audi's quattro/Subaru AWD) platform for the RL instead of what they have right now.

The current RL sits on a transverse layout, right?

dom

So they could have painted themselves into a corner? If there's no chasis coming that can have its tranny mounted longitudinal then all that R&D was for naught. Now if they would have sourced the tranny out..... Ah nevermind Honda never makes mistakes.

Moog-Type-S

So where does the VW auto-stick transmission fit in with your opinion.
One had to change the gears oneself...but the clutch was automated...and there was a torque converter there too.

...and I guess all those guys driving in F1 are driving around in automatic transmissions too