dom

And before someone says that the original was never about going fast in a straight line and its all about handling, I get it. But this isn't 1989 anymore. You have to have some semblance of acceleration to be taken seriously in that crowd.

CarbonGray Earl

From a TOV member


Honda just fell on the sword....

Yumcha

I think their lawnmowers go faster...

knavinusa

Well, at least they're making almost as much torque as they are horsepower.

dom

Although I will say it looks sharp. Even in production trim.

Yumcha

So, here's the conundrum with the Honda/Acura lineup these days: you want something with a bit of performance (V6 class), it's ugly.

If you want something that looks good...it's slow?



WTF.

neuronbob

Sigh.

Well....we don't know if there's a high-po edition yet. This is the version that will sell to the non-enthusiasts. Maybe there will be a CRZ-Si sometime in the future. Maybe a Mugen edition? Someone give me some hope?

dom

Lets face it, Honda is the not he company for you if you want anything even remotely sporting. I've given up hope and suggest you do the same.

The good news is there are plenty of companies still making performance cars for us. And frankly I'm excited by all the choices.

Its like I'm 15 again. Camaro or Mustang.

Yumcha

Kinda like the Mugen Legend Max (with a V8!) they made only to give the to everyone and say it was not for mass production...?

dom

Meh to Mugen. The last Mugen offering was that overpriced Civic Si.

Type R or bust.

LuvMyTSX

Ugly, slow, and only a 2 seater. Somehow I don't think this thing is going to do very well.

It looks like a squashed Insight from the rear.

9.7 seconds? Seriously?? LMAO

Yumcha

Even though Mugen is Honda's tuning arm, was there ever a production "Mugen" vehicle for Honda/Acura in NA...?

knavinusa

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I'd like to take an S5 or one of those new S4s for a spin. Or a C63.

The Germans and Lexus are fighting a horsepower war right now so it should be interesting to see what they come up with.

CarbonGray Earl

This should have been called the insight coupe. At least that name doesn't have a sporting pretense attached to it.

neuronbob

Now that's just rubbing salt in the wound. I would have been the ONE person in North America who would have bought the Legend Max, too.

Dom has a great point. For enthusiasts.....Camaro or Mustang or Challenger? G8 or CTS-V or SHO or Charger SRT? M5 or IS-F or E63? This is truly the late 60's/early 70's again....and once again, Honda is ahead of the curve as far as fuel efficiency.

For the masses....the CR-Z. This will sell like hotcakes to the masses. Mark my words....especially if it gets awesome mileage.

knavinusa

I can see it now.

"Sweet, you have one of those new CRXs. The old ones were beasts when modded. How quick is it?"

"Oh, it runs a 9.7."

"Wow, quarter mile?"

"No, 0-60."

"..."

Yumcha

Depends on the aftermarket segment too, perhaps? If this car does sell well to the masses...tuning manufacturers would like throw their hats into the ring and hence, drive up the demand from the younger demographics...?

It's not ugly. Just fantastically slow and underpowered...

knavinusa

It doesn't seem like too many companies would be willing to tune a hybrid. Maybe if the hi-po version came with a gas-only engine, or a diesel (like that'll ever happen) then we'd have something to work with.

dom

I'm going to guess a huge flop. At least in North America.

Its a 2 door which means a very limited market. I just don't see a hybrid market for tweeners and early twenty somethings. Not to mention that fact it really isn't a sports car. Second, the Insight has already proven that North American's want cutting edge as far as their hybrids go. Honda just can't compete with Toyota in that area, even if its a perceived disadvantage.

Unless gas skyrockets this thing is DOA.

Moog-Type-S

All aboard the Honda FAILboat!!!

I'd laugh it up...but it's starting to become really sad what Honda has become.

Colin

I honestly don't know what anyone here was expecting. This was always going to be Insight based. I don't know who in thier right mind expected S2000 performance out of a 2 door insight.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Which makes it even more of a as to why Honda would build this.

The Insight is a failure...so why not follow it up with a less in demand coupe product.

Colin

^^ LOL and you think that they started this project after the Insight came out? This has been under development for many years, long before the Insight 'failed'.

Edward'TLS

CR-Z = A car that looks fast isn't.

MeehowsBRZ

I don't think anyone here was comparing this to the S2000 aside from the number of doors and seats. But being slower to 60mph than an Odyssey is pretty pathetic no matter what.

dom

S2000 no, Civic Si..maybe.

I expected to be let down but this was more than I was expecting.

Belzebutt

Wait, these specs are 0-100 in the metric system, so 0-60 will be like 7 seconds, right? Right?

dom

Anyone read MT's review of the Insight for the COTY article.

Ouch...

Better hope the CR-Zzzzzzzzzzzz has learned a thing or two.

Colin

I am not let down at all, if anything I'm pleasantly surprised that the styling remained so true to the concepts. (I was sure it would loose the grille) This is exactly the type of performance I was expecting and I don't understand how anyone could have expected differently. It's a two door Insight, what gave you any idea that it would offer Si levels of performance?

dom

Of course. Why would any of us had high expectations for a Honda product. Rest assured I won't make that mistake again.

And like I said on this page and earlier in the thread. I wasn't expecting much but was hoping to be pleasantly surprised.

And it truly boggles the mind that setting one's sights on the performance level of a civic si can be considered unreasonable. Wow.

Costco

I didn't think I'd be saying this 5-6 years ago, but Toyota is looking a lot sportier than Honda as a whole lineup these days. Toyota FFS.... at one point their sportiest model was the Solara!

oh and another thing.... the Prius has a 0-60 time of 9.8 seconds, only a tenth behind the (what looks to be) the smaller, lighter CR-Z. Sad.

Colin

People here have been going around fluffing themselves to the point that anything less that 300 hp was going to be a disappointment. LOL, this is supposed to be a fun to drive hybrid. Nobody's had a chance to drive it yet, but I'd guess it will deliver on the promise of being entertaining to drive - compared to other hybrids. The Si will continue to be a fun to drive gas car.

Sarlacc

Something tells me the Lexus LF-Ch Hybrid sport Hatch will be MORE fun to drive

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, Honda likes to underrate the performance of its cars. For instance, Honda claimed that the TSX 6MT does 0-62mph in 8s (http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/accordsaloon/), but we have already seen it running 6.7s in the 0-60mph run(http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ormance_page_2).

Here is a nice analysis from C&D (http://blog.caranddriver.com/leaked-...twined-webs/):

"Ah, but that 9.7-second time is just Honda’s estimate. A manual-equipped Honda Fit, which just so happens to use a 1.5-liter four with similar power output, hit 60 in 8.5 seconds in our hands. Given that the CR-Z will cast a shadow smaller than the Fit’s—the two-seater is 1.0 inch shorter in length, 1.8 inches wider, and 5.1 inches shorter in height, and has a 2.5-inch shorter wheelbase—we think (well, hope and pray) it’s likely to weigh less than the Fit, even if it’s not by much. Factor in the extra power provided by the IMA boost, and scorching, sub-9.0-second 0-to-60 times and some sporting character may not be too much of a stretch."

Also keep in mind for a car this slow, that extra 2mph (ie, 0-60mph vs 0-62mph) would take quite a bit of time to get (probably 0.5s or so? Try it with a Yaris or Fit). Then also note that car mags test cars differently (more aggressive, brake torquing, 1ft roll out, correction factors, professional test drivers, etc).

Costco

So maybe at the very best, it goes from 0-60 in the low 8s? Am I supposed to be impressed?

Okay, so it probably has some sort of sporting intentions, BUT it is slow as hell.

Edward'TLS

Yea, give the CR-Z another 2 doors and people will forgive it to be slow.

But a 2-door sport car (at least sporty looking) deserves a lot more speed.

Shift_Acura

Isnt a Honda Civic even quicker than this thing?

dom

Are you using extremes to support your point? Until I see posts where people were asking for or expecting 300HP and S2000 levels of performance I'll say you are.

neuronbob

I agree. Honda makes money on satisfying the masses, not satisfying the enthusiasts, especially during a worldwide recession. The masses will be entertained as far as the handling, I'm quite sure. I still think it's a great-looking car. I stand by my assertion that it will sell with appropriate marketing, though the experience with the Insight so far gives me some pause.

The speed enthusiasts (e.g. folks like me) will not be satisfied with the performance and will look elsewhere. That doesn't diminish the value of the car, however. I still hold out hope for a hi-po model, either hybrid or gas, when the economy bounces back.

dom

Only at Honda does 'fun to drive' exclude acceleration.