biker

That's a bit generous.

F23A4

Definite

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol yea.....they also only managed to get low 20's mpg in the 3 and GTI....

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...er-13-2009.pdf

They must be having a lot of fun in these 14's cars.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ Yes, but my car is substantially faster than the Si. It also runs super rich from the factory tune too.

Just messing with you iforyou. The new Si numbers look better than the previous gen.

CarbonGray Earl

The civic #s are pretty good....but the interior is


I'd have to opt for the GTI if I were buying brand new.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Don't you dare buy a DSG though in that sports car; otherwise face the wrath of ....

dom

Sucks for me. A GTI starts at 35K (5 door) up here while an Si for example starts at 25.5. No doubt IMO that the GTI is the better car, but is it 10k+ better?

VTEC Racer

Wow that really affected you, huh? No need to get personal, again.

In the GTI, you have a choice of manual OR auto, the way it should be.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Actually I didn't take it personal. The fact that I cracked a joke about it and you had to respond to it, shows that you did. I didn't mention your name, you called yourself out. I purposely didn't mention your name so that only those that were aware of the topic would know what I was talking about.

Let me be clear about this, if I ever see you go into a non-acura/honda thread to insight some meaningless banter or nonsensical point, I will give you a vacation from the boards. Let this be my final warning.

VTEC Racer

I took it as a personal attack. You were referring to me, and you know it. It did affect you because a whole weekend has gone by and you're still thinking about it. Even if people aren't aware of the topic, you are making them aware. It was a douche bag move on your part. The poster made no comment about manual or auto. You brought it up for the sole purpose of making another personal jab at me.

Don't throw your meaningless threats at me. I don't do anything on this forum that other people on here don't do. I don't cuss, I don't do personal attacks unless someone attacks me first, and I don't fill these forums with hate. Now you're trying to tell me what threads I can and can't post in? Maybe you should take a look in the mirror before you continue your power trip. If you have an issue with me, be a man and send me a PM instead of trying to beat your chest in public for everyone else to see.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Welcome to the internet. I suggest you grow some thicker skin.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

@ taking it personally

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

As requested, PM sent.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Not that it's the same situation, but for us when deciding between the A3 and A4, it was pretty much cargo space and quattro that was the determining factor. I had never owned a car with AWD and all my cars prior to that were FWD. The extra cargo space was a plus too.

Past that it's pretty much what you perceive as value. There are times I wish I had an A3 as I do prefer smaller sportier cars, but I know we made the right decision because of well the car fits our needs and the value of the car has held up damn well in 3 years of ownership.

Have you gone out and test driven the GTI? If you haven't, drive the SI first, you'll see how much better the feel of the GTI is compared to the SI. Both are great cars in their own right, don't get me wrong, personally, I think comparing a German car to a Japanese car is like apples to oranges. The materials and feel is completely different.

dom

An Si is not really something I'd consider buying at this stage in the game. Especially the new Si. The A3 was actually what I'm base lining vs a GTI. And ya, from what I've seen an Si isn't in the same game, at least when it comes to the materials.

Just a bit frustrated at the price of a GTI. Built the way I like it, its about 43K OTR.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

How much of a difference is the A3 compared to the GTI? I have to keep reminding myself that this is Canadian funds. I saw the price and nearly jumped out of my seat because a nicely fitted STI could be had for 40K+ in US$

Moog-Type-S

I still can't believe the GTI costs so much in

...and I agree the SI and GTI are apples and oranges in terms of quality, and overall feel "driveability".

The SI is nothing to laugh about, but it does not compare to a GTI.

Yumcha

*sighs*

Everything costs more up here. Don't get me started on the price differential on TVs...trying to buy my Mom an LED TV for her b-day and yeah, looking at the prices down south, I may as well fly to Chicago and haul one back.

Still probably will be ahead even with the plane ticket.




And GTI > Civic SI. Hands down.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

GTI > Civic Si. 100%.

Drive the Si first and drive the GTI right after. In terms of the driveability, GTI is the best in its category.

krio

Yes, yes and yes. In every aspect: overall fantastic quality, engine, performance, usability. It's the best hatchback at the moment on the market.

Legend2TL

Except reliability, everything I've read says VW still don't have their reliability together yet. To some folks that's not the highest concern but I'd bet that's a high requirement for the majority of auto buyers. Something the Civic is probably better than the GTI.

I was in a VW dealership recently and they GTI does have a great interior and from the reviews I've read it's a fantastic performer, but the low-end Pasat looked similar in material quality as a Accord.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Comparing the GTI and the low-end Passat? Doesn't make much sense.

Legend2TL

I didn't, I stated the Passat interior quality of material looked about the same as a Accord. I also stated the GTI was also nice. Just a general observation about two VW's in the showroom.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

IIRC, many people also complained about the poor materials in the new Jetta compared to previous Jetta's when VW changed the way they build those to get the price down. Wonder if they took the same approach with the Passat.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

MS4 has high hp and torque but actual performance numbers aren't much faster.




how much your car putting down man?

I thought you were kidding with the $35k part...but then after checking VW Canada site.....the base model doesn't come with navi and moonroof (Si comes with those at $26k). To have those two, it will bring the price to mid $30k's. It will be like $40k if you add leather seats and DSG and some other crap......before 10-15% tax(es).....

The MS3 starts at $29-$30k..and with tech package...it starts at over $32k ($26k in the States).....

The base A3 starts at $34k here but it comes with leather seats. I don't see an option for adding navi.

haha..that's why I just bought two sets of rims/tires from the States..for the same money...I'm getting a set of alloy rims for free.....

Legend2TL

I wonder if that's VW approach for the US, the new US Passat is different than the European Passat. It seemed to have a minimalistic approach to the number of components used. I looked at the interior and exterior trim and various pieces.

IMO the US Passat front end seems to borrow from the current Accord with the headlights, angles, grill, etc.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I normally hate the magazine racers and don't really care if my car is faster or slower than other cars. But the difference between MS3 and Si performance numbers is pretty substantial. It seems similar, but more than 1 second difference in 0-100 is several car lengths and the distance certainly gets bigger and bigger as the cars reach higher speed.

Si/MS3
0-100: 15.7 sec / 14.3
¼-mile: 14.7 sec @ 97 mph / 14.3 @ 100

I haven't had a chance to do a dyno run yet, but I'm planning to do one next summer after getting a bigger TM intercooler, possibly a downpipe. The stock one sucks balls.

But I did race my friend's stock 2nd Gen MS3, and mine was substantially faster. And mine gets much better gas mileage.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I think I read it somewhere the US Passats were designed (vanilliarized) to compete directly against Accords and Camrys. I guess they had to undercut a lot of interior craps to match the pricing range with others.

Moog-Type-S

^^ They lowered the quality of the interior bits to compete head to head with Accord and Camry.

It's not say that it is "poor" quality, but it is on par with Altima, Accord, Camry.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol I was just kidding man. Your MS3 will whoop an Si on the hwy for sure.

Anyways..back on topic...I was also looking at the 5-60mph time of the Si..and thought...6.4 seconds...that's pretty quick for a car without much low end torque. So I also looked at other numbers from C/D and noted the following:

5-60mph:
Civic - 6.4s
GTI 3 door DSG - 6.7s (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test)
WRX 5MT 265hp - 6.7s (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ubaru-wrx-test)
MS3 6MT - 7s (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...term-road-test)

Yes, there will be variations as each test was conducted at different times and probably different drivers. But still, even though the Si has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less low-end torque, it's 5-60mph is fairly fast, if not the fastest.

I guess this isn't such a bad thing. Unlike the previous gen, you no longer need to break the tranny to achieve good times with the Si.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

FWD cars with too much torque mean not much traction from the dig, even with the differentials, especially with gay stock tires. Also, people who don't have the MS3 don't really know about this, but the revised tune from the 1st gen MS3 to 2nd gen MS3 allowed the ECU to cut the power in lower gears... to help fight against the torque steer. This is the main reason why the 0-60 numbers are pretty bad for 2nd Gen MS3s. But it's alright, we can simply get rid of that power cut feature from the factory ECU really easily.

When I use my launch control to get it out of the hole aggressively, it struggles so much to get the traction.

When I race my friend's 2010 WRX 5MT, he gets out like I'm standing still, but I reel him in pretty fast and eventually pass him to get several car lengths by 110-120mph. It's the same for most of the stock STis.

The Si probably has the ideal amount of torque to get it going pretty nicely from the dig.

And this is exactly why I never care about the 0-60 times.

What does 5-60 mean anyway? I've never looked at that stat before. Is it like rolling start?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Yep. Its what they call a "street start".

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I thought we are not supposed to "street race"?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

krio

low-end materials..? strange, maybe you have diff. quality from us, in EU?
for ex. I know that the Passat in the US is bigger and wider than here and a the same time with less quality in fit and finish.
]

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ Yes, we got through that point. Post #2828 and 2829.

krio

yeah, sorry).. I missed them

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea..FWD sucks in that regard.....especially when trying to accelerate on a slope when it's wet.....non-stop wheelspin....

5-60mph is exactly just that - accelerating from 5mph - 60mph. So I guess I'd call it a rolling start? No revving to 4000-5000rpm before dropping the clutch. The clutch is fully engaged at 5mph, the engine is probably revving at 1500rpm at that time? Then punch it all the way to 60mph. That's 5-60mph. I think this is for those who actually own/care about their cars. I mean, if you are making payments to your car, you probably don't wanna be dropping the clutch at 5000rpm to launch.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I see.

Like I said, with a set of stock tires, we just can't/don't drop the clutch from 4000-5000rpm. That's stupid anyway. Nobody does it. Launching it @ 2500rpm with feathering the clutch gets us the best results.

All I know is that I've raced dozens of Si & RSX in the beginning stage of my MS3 ownership and never was I challenged by them. They just don't have enough juice to really compete against its competitor who are F/I based. And it's ridiculously easy/cheap to add more power to cars like MS3, GTI, WRX, and MiniS. There can't be any denying on this.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea for sure. I guess that's why for those Si/RSX drivers, if they want serious power, they would also go with boost.