Honda: Civic News
10-31-2011, 06:55 AM
#2722
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...nda_civic.html
Euro Civic test drive.
"...while the 2.2-litre diesel in the car we drove has been given a more thorough makeover. Power is up by 10bhp and torque by 10Nm, to 148bhp and 350Nm, and fuel economy rises 18 per cent to 67.3mpg.
The large-capacity four-cylinder diesel remains one of the best engines around. It pulls hard from low revs, spins smoothly and has plenty of performance.
Despite being the most expensive option, Honda predicts this engine will be its biggest seller here – at least until a smaller 120bhp 1.6-litre diesel, with less than 100g/km of CO2, arrives this time next year..."
Euro Civic test drive.
"...while the 2.2-litre diesel in the car we drove has been given a more thorough makeover. Power is up by 10bhp and torque by 10Nm, to 148bhp and 350Nm, and fuel economy rises 18 per cent to 67.3mpg.
The large-capacity four-cylinder diesel remains one of the best engines around. It pulls hard from low revs, spins smoothly and has plenty of performance.
Despite being the most expensive option, Honda predicts this engine will be its biggest seller here – at least until a smaller 120bhp 1.6-litre diesel, with less than 100g/km of CO2, arrives this time next year..."
10-31-2011, 07:25 AM
#2724
Safety Car
ReDo
Because of the chilly reception this year for its redesigned Civic, which was universally panned for its cheap, hard-plastic instrument panel and center console, Honda is moving more quickly than planned on some mid-cycle changes.
"We take feedback seriously, regardless of who it's from, and we will act accordingly quickly," John Mendel, American Honda executive vice president, said in an interview.
The mid-cycle update normally would occur in spring 2014. But Mendel said the change could occur sometime in 2013.
Honda was in the midst of redesigning the Civic when the global economy imploded in 2009. Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito stopped the redesign in its tracks, approved shortening the wheelbase and reducing content to appeal to budget-conscious consumers.
Reviewers chastised Honda for its penny-pinching ways after it debuted in April. Consumer Reports removed the Civic from its "recommended" list for the 1st time in memory, calling it "cheap" and "insubstantial." A recent Wall Street Journal review called it "a betrayal."
For the car that leads the compact segment in retail sales -- and is Honda's bread and butter -- those words are damning when competitive entries from Ford, Hyundai and Chevrolet have shown major improvement.
"I don't know how much we can do, and how quickly," said Mendel at the media launch of the redesigned 2012 CR-V crossover. "But the comments of Consumer Reports and our customers have not gone unnoticed. We are appropriately energized."
The launch was severely disrupted by the Japan earthquake on March 11. Dealers held blowout sales of the outgoing Civic in March and April, but allocations were slow in coming.
Still, the Civic was the most shopped nameplate in June, in the thick of the car's marketing launch, according to the consulting firm Compete Automotive. But the spike was surprisingly short-lived, and shopper volume declined quickly -- "atypical for Honda in particular," the Compete report said.
The downgrade by Consumer Reports likely played a role in the diminished interest, Compete said.
Growth strategy
Although Honda's supply base was battered by the March earthquake, Mendel said Honda is cranking up North American production, building one plant and expanding others, in anticipation of a big growth spurt beginning next year.
"You are seeing us building capacity back in, then remixing [production] based on the market," said Mendel. "We're not increasing production of any vehicle per se, but a multitude of different vehicles, then letting the market decide."
Honda Division had predicted sales of 1.2 million units this year, before the earthquake struck.
"It's a safe bet" to use 1.2 million units as a starting point for a 2012 sales target, Mendel said.
With sales off 6% through September in an industry that's up 10%, the Honda brand has taken a beating. It has lost 1.4 points of market share. Most of that loss has been attributed to production shortfalls stemming from the earthquake.
Lost production
Mendel says the disaster has cost Honda 200,000 units of production meant for the United States. But with suppliers finally back online, Honda last week added a second shift at the Greensburg, Ind., assembly plant, which makes the Civic, generating another 100,000 units of annual capacity.
That is in addition to Honda having both its lines at Marysville, Ohio, running 2-shift production resuming in 2012. That would be for the first time since Honda slowed the plants in early 2009 in reaction to the Lehman Brothers crisis. It also is adding a $64 million stamping press in Marysville, likely in anticipation of the redesigned Accord that comes next year.
Honda also is in process of building an $800 million plant in Guanajuato, Mexico, that will crank out 200,000 subcompact cars annually, starting in 2014, based on the Fit/Insight platform. Honda's Ohio transmission plant also has spent $50 million for aluminum casting operations.
Mendel said the moves are in anticipation of a strong recovery in auto sales. He cited analyst sales projections that vary as much as 3 million units for 2012.
"Regardless of what forecast you see, everyone is expecting growth," Mendel said.
"It feels good to let [the Indiana plant] stretch its legs."
The increase in local production also is a reaction to the increased strength of the yen against the dollar. Honda produces 80 to 90% of its U.S. sales in North America, but Mendel wants more.
"I don't think you can find anyone doing business in Japan saying the yen at 75 or 76 [to the dollar] is not a problem," Mendel said. "It's a big problem."
10-31-2011, 07:55 AM
#2725
Race Director
There must have been some folks inside Honda that knew that cutting corners on the inside of the Civic will come back and bite them in the a$$. It's just 
that the upper brass didn't see it also and it's going to cost even more to fix the problem.
that the upper brass didn't see it also and it's going to cost even more to fix the problem.
10-31-2011, 08:33 AM
#2726
Lost production
Mendel says the disaster has cost Honda 200,000 units of production meant for the United States. But with suppliers finally back online, Honda last week added a second shift at the Greensburg, Ind., assembly plant, which makes the Civic, generating another 100,000 units of annual capacity.
That is in addition to Honda having both its lines at Marysville, Ohio, running 2-shift production resuming in 2012. That would be for the first time since Honda slowed the plants in early 2009 in reaction to the Lehman Brothers crisis. It also is adding a $64 million stamping press in Marysville, likely in anticipation of the redesigned Accord that comes next year.
Honda also is in process of building an $800 million plant in Guanajuato, Mexico, that will crank out 200,000 subcompact cars annually, starting in 2014, based on the Fit/Insight platform. Honda's Ohio transmission plant also has spent $50 million for aluminum casting operations.
Mendel said the moves are in anticipation of a strong recovery in auto sales. He cited analyst sales projections that vary as much as 3 million units for 2012.
"Regardless of what forecast you see, everyone is expecting growth," Mendel said.
"It feels good to let [the Indiana plant] stretch its legs."
The increase in local production also is a reaction to the increased strength of the yen against the dollar. Honda produces 80 to 90% of its U.S. sales in North America, but Mendel wants more.
"I don't think you can find anyone doing business in Japan saying the yen at 75 or 76 [to the dollar] is not a problem," Mendel said. "It's a big problem."
Good news about all the increased production, and new factory.
10-31-2011, 09:05 AM
#2727
poor business decisions affected sales?
who would have thought.
who would have thought.
10-31-2011, 09:43 AM
#2728
Senior Moderator
Why cant Acura move as quickly to fix mistakes
10-31-2011, 09:44 AM
#2729
Senior Moderator
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...nda_civic.html
Euro Civic test drive.
"...while the 2.2-litre diesel in the car we drove has been given a more thorough makeover. Power is up by 10bhp and torque by 10Nm, to 148bhp and 350Nm, and fuel economy rises 18 per cent to 67.3mpg.
The large-capacity four-cylinder diesel remains one of the best engines around. It pulls hard from low revs, spins smoothly and has plenty of performance.
Despite being the most expensive option, Honda predicts this engine will be its biggest seller here – at least until a smaller 120bhp 1.6-litre diesel, with less than 100g/km of CO2, arrives this time next year..."
Euro Civic test drive.
"...while the 2.2-litre diesel in the car we drove has been given a more thorough makeover. Power is up by 10bhp and torque by 10Nm, to 148bhp and 350Nm, and fuel economy rises 18 per cent to 67.3mpg.
The large-capacity four-cylinder diesel remains one of the best engines around. It pulls hard from low revs, spins smoothly and has plenty of performance.
Despite being the most expensive option, Honda predicts this engine will be its biggest seller here – at least until a smaller 120bhp 1.6-litre diesel, with less than 100g/km of CO2, arrives this time next year..."
10-31-2011, 10:29 AM
#2730
The sizzle in the Steak
Honda: Here's a simple solution to your woes....just do what Hyundai & Kia are doing.
It will solve both Honda & Acura sales & product woes.
Everyone saw the Civic mess a mile away.
It will solve both Honda & Acura sales & product woes.
Everyone saw the Civic mess a mile away.
10-31-2011, 10:37 AM
#2731
10-31-2011, 11:09 AM
#2732
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Hon-duh
10-31-2011, 11:24 AM
#2734
Senior Moderator
That interior is world's better design wise than the NA version.
Brother in law just picked up his 12 LX sedan on Friday. Still blown away by the interior on that car but the MiD is a nice toy to have. Its a company car that he spends 7 hours a day in and he still can't believe the lack of storage and cubbies compared to the 08 he had.
Brother in law just picked up his 12 LX sedan on Friday. Still blown away by the interior on that car but the MiD is a nice toy to have. Its a company car that he spends 7 hours a day in and he still can't believe the lack of storage and cubbies compared to the 08 he had.
10-31-2011, 01:30 PM
#2735
Honda was in the midst of redesigning the Civic when the global economy imploded in 2009. Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito stopped the redesign in its tracks, approved shortening the wheelbase and reducing content to appeal to budget-conscious consumers.
10-31-2011, 07:15 PM
#2736
My first Avatar....
11-01-2011, 02:58 AM
#2737
Honda is too conservative to bring a diesel powerplant over here IMO. Diesel will never be as cheap or as popular over here (US) as conventional gasoline is. Not as long as ethanol/corn subsidies are so insane.
Whatever they sell has to be a surefire hit in the market. Diesel is not a guaranteed hit
and it's a damn shame. They're already decontenting the Civic to lower the price, not sure if they would take the risk of a diesel option (read: more expensive than the gas and probably an hybrid version, if applicable)
Whatever they sell has to be a surefire hit in the market. Diesel is not a guaranteed hit
and it's a damn shame. They're already decontenting the Civic to lower the price, not sure if they would take the risk of a diesel option (read: more expensive than the gas and probably an hybrid version, if applicable)
11-01-2011, 06:28 AM
#2738
Race Director
The diesel engine itself is not that much more expensive. If you could have an apples-apples model to compare, the diesel upgrade would be in the 2K (or less) range and it would pay for itself (even with the high cost of diesel) well within the typical ownership period. OTOH, the math just doesn't work for the hybrid - the upgrade is usually at least 3-4K and you can't make that up in the fuel savings over the usual 7 year ownership period.
11-01-2011, 07:22 AM
#2739
AZ Community Team
That interior is world's better design wise than the NA version.
Brother in law just picked up his 12 LX sedan on Friday. Still blown away by the interior on that car but the MiD is a nice toy to have. Its a company car that he spends 7 hours a day in and he still can't believe the lack of storage and cubbies compared to the 08 he had.
Brother in law just picked up his 12 LX sedan on Friday. Still blown away by the interior on that car but the MiD is a nice toy to have. Its a company car that he spends 7 hours a day in and he still can't believe the lack of storage and cubbies compared to the 08 he had.
If the Euro Civic design was used for the states, that would be the class leader easily. Knowing how contentized the Euro small sedans and their non-bargain pricing is I wonder how much it would coast in the states?
11-01-2011, 07:22 AM
#2740
AZ Community Team
What a great design inside and out
11-01-2011, 08:06 AM
#2741
Autocar first drive
What is it?
A big gamble. Honda is banking that the design of old Civic was so avant-garde when it was new six years ago that it does not need replacing as such, merely refreshing.
It shares its platform, basic suspension architecture (including its infamous torsion beam rear axle) and basic engine line up with old Civic. On the plus side, the revised exterior still looks modern and stands apart from the crowd while the interior retains its class leading space, vast boot and clever flip-up rear seats.
Honda says that, beneath the skin, the Civic has been improved in every important regard and directed us to a 2.2-litre diesel that’ll account for most sales to make its point. Power is up 10bhp, but fuel consumption is dramatically down from 55.3mpg to an impressive 67.3mpg if you stay clear of the 17in rims. CO2 has tumbled from 134 to a class-busting 110g/km.
Is it any good?
This is not a car that endears immediately endears itself to you. The driving position is a little high, the weird confluence of analogue dials and LED readouts on the dash less than successful.
Nor has Honda thought sufficiently hard about how the driver will operate the car which, given all the year spent studying that the paragon or ergonomic simplicity that is the VW Golf, is a mite disappointing. Up spec EX and GT models come with a central combined information, entertainment and navigation module which looks off the shelf, has very poor graphics and is needlessly fiddly and complex to operate.
But you’ll not be far from the car park before you realise Honda has spent the last six years doing a lot more than doodling a slightly different shape for the Civic.
It’s the ride quality you notice first. There’s a new compliancy and fluency which means it doesn’t jolt or rattle any more. And while there’s no doubt a properly engineered multi-link rear end can be tuned to work yet more effectively across a wider spectrum of surfaces, the ills of the old Civic rear end can now be regarded as substantially cured.
It handles too, proving poised, balanced and benefitting from steering greatly improved by new front suspension geometry and a quicker rack. Once more the Civic a reasonably fun and capable car to punt down a decent road.
But it’s most effective in more humdrum environments. It seems strange that the world’s largest producer of engines still either can’t or won’t prise more than 148bhp from a 2.2-litre diesel when so many produce far more from less, but perhaps Honda regards the startling headline fuel consumption and emissions figures that result as a worthwhile alternative. And you can’t question the smoothness of the engine at part throttle, nor overall levels of refinement that are genuinely outstanding.
That said, the motor is hobbled slightly by high gearing, particularly in its intermediate ratios, a condition exacerbated by a discernable lack of low down torque. While some diesels are happy chugging at 1500rpm, this one is not shy about rumbling its displeasure and encouraging you to change down. None of which, of course, is incorporated into the official fuel consumption calculations which, I strongly suspect, is why the car has been geared this way in the first place…
Should I buy one?
This is a car in which Honda at least places a lot of confidence, a fact it is more than happy to demonstrate by asking you to put your money where its mouth is.
And even if you forget extremely expensive GT version more lowly models remain premium-priced, the EX costing more than either the most expensive diesel Ford Focus, Alfa Romeo Giulietta or non GTI-chassis’d diesel Golf you can buy. Given that these represent the most able cars the Civic is likely to encounter any time soon, that’s fighting talk.
Is it up to it? Can Honda take an old Civic and so transform what was never a very good car even when new into something than can take on the best brand new designs and the established class leader?
In a word, no. But to a certain sort of customer, a family man or woman who most values interior space, fuel consumption, mechanical refinement and safety I expect it might yet craft a compelling case for itself.
And no matter who you are, you should know the Civic is radically improved, far more so than its looks might suggest.
In short the Civic is good enough to be regarded as if not a new car, then at least one that has been effectively renewed. But what is beyond doubt is that for 10th generation of Civic, coming to a showroom near you some time in 2018, nothing less than a clean sheet will be required.
A big gamble. Honda is banking that the design of old Civic was so avant-garde when it was new six years ago that it does not need replacing as such, merely refreshing.
It shares its platform, basic suspension architecture (including its infamous torsion beam rear axle) and basic engine line up with old Civic. On the plus side, the revised exterior still looks modern and stands apart from the crowd while the interior retains its class leading space, vast boot and clever flip-up rear seats.
Honda says that, beneath the skin, the Civic has been improved in every important regard and directed us to a 2.2-litre diesel that’ll account for most sales to make its point. Power is up 10bhp, but fuel consumption is dramatically down from 55.3mpg to an impressive 67.3mpg if you stay clear of the 17in rims. CO2 has tumbled from 134 to a class-busting 110g/km.
Is it any good?
This is not a car that endears immediately endears itself to you. The driving position is a little high, the weird confluence of analogue dials and LED readouts on the dash less than successful.
Nor has Honda thought sufficiently hard about how the driver will operate the car which, given all the year spent studying that the paragon or ergonomic simplicity that is the VW Golf, is a mite disappointing. Up spec EX and GT models come with a central combined information, entertainment and navigation module which looks off the shelf, has very poor graphics and is needlessly fiddly and complex to operate.
But you’ll not be far from the car park before you realise Honda has spent the last six years doing a lot more than doodling a slightly different shape for the Civic.
It’s the ride quality you notice first. There’s a new compliancy and fluency which means it doesn’t jolt or rattle any more. And while there’s no doubt a properly engineered multi-link rear end can be tuned to work yet more effectively across a wider spectrum of surfaces, the ills of the old Civic rear end can now be regarded as substantially cured.
It handles too, proving poised, balanced and benefitting from steering greatly improved by new front suspension geometry and a quicker rack. Once more the Civic a reasonably fun and capable car to punt down a decent road.
But it’s most effective in more humdrum environments. It seems strange that the world’s largest producer of engines still either can’t or won’t prise more than 148bhp from a 2.2-litre diesel when so many produce far more from less, but perhaps Honda regards the startling headline fuel consumption and emissions figures that result as a worthwhile alternative. And you can’t question the smoothness of the engine at part throttle, nor overall levels of refinement that are genuinely outstanding.
That said, the motor is hobbled slightly by high gearing, particularly in its intermediate ratios, a condition exacerbated by a discernable lack of low down torque. While some diesels are happy chugging at 1500rpm, this one is not shy about rumbling its displeasure and encouraging you to change down. None of which, of course, is incorporated into the official fuel consumption calculations which, I strongly suspect, is why the car has been geared this way in the first place…
Should I buy one?
This is a car in which Honda at least places a lot of confidence, a fact it is more than happy to demonstrate by asking you to put your money where its mouth is.
And even if you forget extremely expensive GT version more lowly models remain premium-priced, the EX costing more than either the most expensive diesel Ford Focus, Alfa Romeo Giulietta or non GTI-chassis’d diesel Golf you can buy. Given that these represent the most able cars the Civic is likely to encounter any time soon, that’s fighting talk.
Is it up to it? Can Honda take an old Civic and so transform what was never a very good car even when new into something than can take on the best brand new designs and the established class leader?
In a word, no. But to a certain sort of customer, a family man or woman who most values interior space, fuel consumption, mechanical refinement and safety I expect it might yet craft a compelling case for itself.
And no matter who you are, you should know the Civic is radically improved, far more so than its looks might suggest.
In short the Civic is good enough to be regarded as if not a new car, then at least one that has been effectively renewed. But what is beyond doubt is that for 10th generation of Civic, coming to a showroom near you some time in 2018, nothing less than a clean sheet will be required.
11-01-2011, 09:02 AM
#2745
Senior Moderator
Honda is too conservative to bring a diesel powerplant over here IMO. Diesel will never be as cheap or as popular over here (US) as conventional gasoline is. Not as long as ethanol/corn subsidies are so insane.
Whatever they sell has to be a surefire hit in the market. Diesel is not a guaranteed hit and it's a damn shame. They're already decontenting the Civic to lower the price, not sure if they would take the risk of a diesel option (read: more expensive than the gas and probably an hybrid version, if applicable)
Whatever they sell has to be a surefire hit in the market. Diesel is not a guaranteed hit
and it's a damn shame. They're already decontenting the Civic to lower the price, not sure if they would take the risk of a diesel option (read: more expensive than the gas and probably an hybrid version, if applicable)The diesel engine itself is not that much more expensive. If you could have an apples-apples model to compare, the diesel upgrade would be in the 2K (or less) range and it would pay for itself (even with the high cost of diesel) well within the typical ownership period. OTOH, the math just doesn't work for the hybrid - the upgrade is usually at least 3-4K and you can't make that up in the fuel savings over the usual 7 year ownership period.
If honda offered the Diesel here in the Fit i would be first in line to buy one.
They make MUCH more sense than the hybrid crap. Hell if they offered that motor with the hybrid mileage figures would skyrocket.
11-01-2011, 10:29 AM
#2746
The diesel engine itself is not that much more expensive. If you could have an apples-apples model to compare, the diesel upgrade would be in the 2K (or less) range and it would pay for itself (even with the high cost of diesel) well within the typical ownership period. OTOH, the math just doesn't work for the hybrid - the upgrade is usually at least 3-4K and you can't make that up in the fuel savings over the usual 7 year ownership period.
I'd pay more for the Diesel than I would for the Hybrid. Diesel motors last forever. Plus you don't have to worry about battery replacement.
11-01-2011, 10:46 AM
#2747
Whatever they sell has to be a surefire hit in the market. Diesel is not a guaranteed hit and it's a damn shame. They're already decontenting the Civic to lower the price, not sure if they would take the risk of a diesel option (read: more expensive than the gas and probably an hybrid version, if applicable)
and it's a damn shame. They're already decontenting the Civic to lower the price, not sure if they would take the risk of a diesel option (read: more expensive than the gas and probably an hybrid version, if applicable)
11-01-2011, 11:36 AM
#2748
Race Director
The NG Civic is a diffrent kind of "doesn't make sense financially" issue - there you even have the refilling infrastructure problem. The problem is that the 2.2 diesel is just too big for the Civic but that's the only parts bin diesel Honda has (for now). The 2.2 makes much more sense in the Accord (and TSX) and CR-V.
It's obvious that the designers for the Euro Civic are just better at it than the designers for the NA Civic.
It's obvious that the designers for the Euro Civic are just better at it than the designers for the NA Civic.
11-01-2011, 01:08 PM
#2749
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
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The diesel engine itself is not that much more expensive. If you could have an apples-apples model to compare, the diesel upgrade would be in the 2K (or less) range and it would pay for itself (even with the high cost of diesel) well within the typical ownership period. OTOH, the math just doesn't work for the hybrid - the upgrade is usually at least 3-4K and you can't make that up in the fuel savings over the usual 7 year ownership period.
2005 Accord EX-V6 with NAVI: $28,850
2005 Accord Hybrid with NAVI: $32,140
Difference in %: 11.4%
2012 Jetta 2.5 SE: $23,725
2012 Jetta TDI SE: $25,995
Difference in %: 9.6%
Not a huge difference to me. That's not including any government incentive programs of course.
Also, the Accord hybrid would smoke the regular Accord V6 while getting roughly 30% better fuel efficiency. I also believe the hybrid accord has a few other extra features. It's also only 140lb heavier, which is like 4% more than a regular Accord V6, unlike other hybrid models are like 300+lb heavier. For comparison, the Jetta TDI SE is 130lb heavier than a 2.5 SE. In other words, the weight gain is quite similar.
11-01-2011, 03:52 PM
#2754
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
almost a half of cars at SEMA are fairly 
the other half is
though
the other half is
though
11-01-2011, 04:26 PM
#2755
Supercharged Accord? 
11-01-2011, 07:07 PM
#2757
that's to say the least, I just want a plug'n play turbo kit for our k24. I don't want to have to build a custom $10k package by cherry picking parts from the universal bin.
I'd also take the supercharged accord. And I know the orange rotiforms are a little ricey, but I kinda like it on the civic.
I'd also take the supercharged accord. And I know the orange rotiforms are a little ricey, but I kinda like it on the civic.
11-01-2011, 07:28 PM
#2758
Three Wheelin'
11-01-2011, 07:37 PM
#2760
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
A factory option of putting an F/I into Honda cars? Are we daydreaming right now?