civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

^ Thats what I was thinking. Aren't the mileage numbers EPA estimates, ie - not Hondas numbers?

biker

They are Honda numbers based on an EPA testing method (which changed in 08).

Moog-Type-S

^^ So Honda did in fact lie?

biker

I don't think so - the window sticker numbers are pretty much set by the testing method. The only thing I don't know is how the low/high numbers (the mileage range) that accompany the main number are arrived at. There was some talk of this happening with the new Elantra since its numbers seemed to be way lower than the 40MPG on the sticker. It's ironic that Honda would get sued over this since historically their sticker numbers compare to real world mileage better than just about anyone else.

Legend2TL

^ IIRC you are correct, the EPA facility for mileage testing is in Los Anegles I thought and all the operation and testing is done by EPA people. The EPA comes up with the numbers not Honda.

Moog-Type-S

^^ If correct, then how can the judge find Honda liable when the numbers come from the EPA, not Honda.

Makes no sense.

ttribe

I'm guessing there was a "Honda knew, or had reason to know" issue brought up in the course of the arguments. Aside from evidence of Honda lying or manipulating the outcome (different car, perhaps), that's the only thing I could imagine succeeding in this case.

phile

Inside Line also points out that the claimant is an attorney...they're supposedly not allowed in small claims court.

Colin

Haha, maybe they shouldn't be allowed to buy cars?

Colin

Posted on TOV (http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...&page_number=1)

From this week's HondaWeb:

• AHM Statement Regarding Resolution of Small Claims Trial in Torrance

February 3, 2012


FEB. 3 - The following is the statement American Honda has issued regarding the recent verdict in the small claims trial in Torrance.
___________________________

American Honda intends to appeal the decision in Peters v. American Honda due to the substantial factual and legal errors reflected in the written decision.

We regret that Ms. Peters is unhappy with the reported mileage for her particular driving experience. However, it is clearly pointed out on the federally required window label that accompanied her car that mileage will vary depending upon a number of factors including options, driving conditions, driving habits and vehicle condition. Those factors affect gas mileage for every car on the road today, hybrid or not. American Honda's advertising regarding fuel economy of Civic Hybrids was accurate when the vehicles were sold and remains accurate today.

There are a number of points of disagreement with the ruling, but the court stated in error that advertising EPA fuel economy estimates is misleading unless the advertising also explains the effects of stop-and-go driving and the use of air conditioning. In fact, federal law does not permit states or state courts to impose additional requirements of this kind. Thus, a Honda advertisement that accurately referenced EPA mileage estimates, truthfully stated that a driver can get "up to 50 mpg" and carefully noted that mileage will vary is not misleading as a matter of law.

American Honda is proud of the fuel saving capability of the Honda Civic Hybrid and is grateful to the many hybrid owners who have written to let us know how pleased they have been in achieving 50 mpg or more in real world driving conditions. In fact, Honda presented evidence of those customer letters in court to help demonstrate the real world capability of the vehicle. Our customers should rest assured that Honda will continue to pursue cutting-edge technologies and strategies to enhance their ability to achieve high levels of fuel efficiency in all of our products.

In conclusion and with all due respect to the court, American Honda believes that the judgment in this case is a radical and unprecedented departure from California and federal law, and, as stated above, we intend to vigorously appeal this decision.

biker

Got to love lawyer talk....

dom

http://www.leftlanenews.com/updated-...this-year.html

Good to hear...again.

F23A4

Moog-Type-S

^^ That is good news indeed.

Let's hope they do some serious work to the front and rear end as well, to "help" it look less like the previous gen.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Good news!

AZuser

Won't happen.

*cough* 9th gen Accord *cough*

Yumcha

Honda reveals the Civic NGTC...

https://acurazine.com/forums/motorsports-news-7/honda-civic-next-generation-touring-car-ngtc-news-848993/

phile

TSX69

Honda Says Civic Has ‘Ammunition’ to Hang On as Top Compact Car

Honda Motor Co. (7267)’s Civic, stung by critical reviews and tight U.S. supply in 2011, has outsold rival small cars and the company has enough “ammunition” to hold the spot, an executive said.

U.S. sales of Civic sedans and coupes rose 45% to 48,970 in the year’s 1st 2 months, ahead of Toyota Motor Corp. (7203)’s Corolla, a perennial challenger, and General Motors Co. (GM)’s Cruze. After supply disruptions last year, Honda now has enough North American capacity to make Civic the top-selling compact, even if that isn’t a target, said Tetsuo Iwamura, chief operating officer for North America.

“When competitors shoot at the Civic, we’ll have enough ammunition to shoot back,” Iwamura said in an interview this week at Honda’s U.S. headquarters in Torrance, California. “We don’t talk about No. 1 as a goal. Always we think about having very good acceptance and high customer satisfaction.”

The car that’s been the core of Honda’s U.S. business since 1973 hasn’t led compact sales since 2002. Civic trailed both Corolla and Cruze last year, according to Autodata Corp., a Woodcliff Lake, New Jersey researcher. A year after an earthquake and tsunami damaged Tokyo-based Honda’s parts supply base and engineering center in Japan, the carmaker has ratcheted up North American output of the model 69% to regain sales in the U.S., its biggest source of revenue.

Honda has gained 32% in Tokyo trading this year, recovering most of the drop last year, when the stock fell 27%. It last closed at 3,100 yen.

Output Increased

Honda made 84,678 Civics at plants in Canada and Indiana in the 1st months of the year, up from 50,056 in the same period a year ago. Production of all Honda and Acura cars and light trucks in North America jumped 36% to a record 301,564, according to the company.

Civic sales fell 15% last year to 221,235, the lowest since 1992. Along with parts-related production delays, the 2012 Civic LX sedan failed to receive the “recommended” status its predecessors had from Consumer Reports last August. The magazine faulted the car for a decline in interior quality, choppier ride and road noise.

Higher U.S. gasoline prices are benefiting Civic, and should buoy demand for at least another four months, said Jesse Toprak, industry analyst for TrueCar.com.

“It’s got a pretty good chance of being No. 1 this year, owing to the availability and the price point,” said Toprak, who is based in Santa Monica, California. “They are a bit lucky that the fuel prices are rising now as Civic continues to be viewed generally as more gas-efficient, and a safe choice.”

Fuel Price

The average price for a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline has increased 16% this year to $3.81 as of March 12, according to AAA, the largest U.S. motorist group. The Civic coupe has a starting price of $15,605 while the sedan’s price starts at $15,805, according to researcher Edmunds.com.

The outlook for Civic beyond July, when fuel prices may ease, will depend on updates of the car Honda plans to make to address some criticisms and competing models including Hyundai Motor Co. (005380)’s Elantra, Toprak said.

“Hyundai, in particular, has shown that it has the ability to replicate the kind of success seen with Honda and Toyota a generation ago,” he said.

Even with some unfavorable reviews for the current Civic, the car continues to attract the buyers competitors seek, said Alexander Edwards, president of the automotive division of Strategic Vision Inc., a San Diego-based consumer-research firm.

How Competitors Fare

Within the small-car segment, Civic is “still grabbing a younger, somewhat wealthier crowd,” Edwards said. The median age of its buyers is 45, compared with a segment average of between 49 and 50 years old, he said.

Volkswagen AG (VOW)’s Jetta draws a younger customer, with a median age of 41, because of its cheaper base price and Hyundai’s Elantra matches Civic with a median buyer age of 45, said Edwards, whose firm surveys 300,000 people a year for its automotive studies. Jetta’s starting price is $15,515, according to Edmunds.

The average Corolla buyer is 49, while the median age for customers of Ford Motor Co. (F)’s Focus is 53 and Chevrolet’s Cruze is 58, Edwards said.

GM’s data indicate that the average Cruze buyer is about 53, Jim Cain, a company spokesman, said in an interview.

Honda’s problems last year didn’t keep it from a top- ranking spot in terms of brand consideration, with 50% of people in the market for a new car saying they’d consider it, Edwards said, citing Strategic Vision data.

Inventory had a bigger impact on Civic sales last year than Consumer Reports’ review, said Iwamura, 60, who becomes Honda’s executive vice president on April 1 and will continue to lead North American operations.

“I accept their criticism very sincerely, but yet believe we’ll be able to make them once again a strong fan of the Civic,” he said.

To contact the reporter on this story: Alan Ohnsman in Los Angeles at aohnsman@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Jamie Butters at jbutters@bloomberg.net

myron

iTrader: (4)

that euro civic looks so good compared to this NA one.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Most any vehicle looks better than the NA civic.

AZuser

Higher fuel prices and more incentives being offered by Honda.

TSX69

2012 Honda Civic Si Long-Term Update 1

Unfortunately I have been spending a lot of time behind the wheels of vehicles other than the Civic lately. A slew of family visits has seen me happily playing tour guide and bus driver behind the wheel of both our Honda Odyssey and Nissan Quest, which reside in the long-term test fleet. As far as people movers go, either option is swell, but man was I glad to ratchet through the gears of the Si upon the families departure. I have come to think of the car as my own, and after the sale of my personal loved and loyal Mk4 Volkswagen GTI, the Civic is my only means of transportation.

The feeling of enjoyment I had returning to the Civic was not a foreign 1 to me. Every time I would drive my GTI, I would get out pleased, telling myself how nice it is and how much I liked driving it. In fact there are a lot of similar aspects of the two cars. 1 thing I always loved about my GTI was the amount of visibility and the civic has it in spades. Unlike many modern form-over-function cars the civic has a very thin a-pillar. Also, directly aft of the pillar is a small fixed wing-window that gives you tons of forward visibility. The 2 rear pillars are also fairly thin and overall it really feels like you can easily see out of any angle, save for maybe the view up from the drivers seat, like at a stoplight. Other than the obvious safety during normal driving benefits, good visibility helps during aggressive driving allowing for a good view of corners and the road ahead.

Another similar feature is how clean and simple the cockpit is. After a short jaunt in the 2013 Subaru BRZ, I mentioned to a co-worker how clean and purposeful the interior was. I realized that simplicity is an uncommon trait in a lot of modern vehicles; a trait that luckily the Civic shares with its Toyo-baru countryman. Although the gauges have a layered design and there are 2 separate infotainment screens, buttons are far and few between. The steering wheel mounted stereo controls are easy to use and give you the option of toggling through your different audio sources with a single push. Maybe it’s an automotive journalist problem, but being able to jump into a car and easily figure out every control is a welcome change for the increasingly intricate user interfaces in a lot of cars these days. Everything is nice and simple, I have even completely changed my once disapproving mind about the dual-layer gauge cluster, it’s awesome. Because the tachometer and speedometer are not only separated by the steering-wheel rim, but by the fact one is analog and the other digital the perception time is very quick.

The interior is by no means lacking in faults. Although I enjoy the layout and aesthetics of the cockpit, the materials leave a lot to be desired. Most likely in the quest for higher profitability the interior surfaces have been stripped of any sort of soft-touch material. The rock-hard plastic that remains is nicely textured, but doesn’t really convey the sense of quality. The seats are fairly bolstered and solid, which makes them slightly uncomfortable for long journeys. Compared to the similarly priced Mk6 Volkswagen GTI the Civics seats and interior unfortunately feels a little low-rent. Maybe with Honda’s next generation the Civic will rejoin the rest of the soft-touch pack.

Cheated may be too strong of a description of my feelings towards the interior of the Civic. There are some very thoughtful and well-designed features that Honda has obviously spent some time and put some thought into -- like the infotainment system -- but when the competition offers that plus comfy place to rest your posterior, you can’t help but wonder.

Our Car
Service life 4 months/7177 miles
Average fuel economy 25.7 mpg
CO2 emissions 0.75 lb/mi
Energy consumption 131 kW-hr/100mi
Unresolved problems None
Maintenance cost $0
Normal-wear cost $0

SSFTSX

Thanks for posting. The fuel economic of Civic SI is within One mpg of Hyundal Elantra long term at Motortrend.
and Civic SI is extremely fast car compared to Elantra. Civic SI is even faster than Hyundai Sonata Turbo.

dom

Could get 100MPGs and cost $14.99. I'd never buy a car that with an interior that looked like that.

Sarlacc

Recently spent time in the new Si...its shit.

My friend's lease was up on his 09 Si...he wanted to see the new Si...sat in it, and immediately got out and said this interior is horrible.

He bought out his 09.

Its cheap, pure hard plastic....the design (especially the non-nav) is fisher price. the seats are cheap feeling GTI knock offs.

Its just a giant step backwards.

Hapa DC5

Damn Honda keeps slapping us in the face... NSX is on, then off, then on, then off, then on again. They give the beak to us on all of their Acura models, allowed the RL to die on the vine, now stick us with a lackluster Civic.

To think I use to have a lot of blind faith in them. You can't keep selling on reliability (which the other makes are catching up to and surpassed in some areas) when your competition looks better and offers more features for less in some cases.

smh..

Hapa DC5

I thought the pre-production models had hope too!

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I swear some of these trolls are actually pretty entertaining.

TSX69

2012 Honda Civic EX Sedan

It's funny how negative the reaction to this generation of Honda Civic has been. You'd think Honda was building a terrible Civic based on some of the press out there. The Civic is still a commendable compact car; it just isn't as impressive as the other recently redesigned cars in this class.

Honda's decision to play it safe with the Civic may draw criticism from the press, but consumers keep buying the cars. In the first quarter of 2012, the Honda Civic handily outsold everything else in the compact class. How can the Civic succeed? It has an intuitive interior, for starters. Other compacts may offer more connectivity options, but the Civic sticks with tried-and-true buttons and knobs that are easy to use and look more modern than the equally simple controls in the Mazda 3.

The design of the Civic is also familiar. Other compacts have upped the design game to the point of compromising visibility or usability while Honda stuck with a basic sedan shape and more timeless lines. With legendary reliability and a reasonable $21,275 sticker price, the 2012 Honda Civic EX doesn't need to offer a lot of gimmicks to attract buyers.

Phil Floraday, Senior Web Editor

The new Civic is a very nice car. It rides and handles well, its powertrain is quiet and economical, and it has a roomy, comfortable cabin. Unfortunately, I can't help but compare it to the kind of car the Civic used to be -- an affordable, entertaining car with tons of personality -- and feel disappointed by its gradual decline into banality. With more and more people downsizing to small cars to reduce their fuel costs, I understand Honda's motives behind wanting to make the Civic feel more mature and to appeal to a larger audience. It's just too bad that in doing so it has lost some of the character and soul that made it so popular in the first place.

Fortunately, the Civic still has some good qualities. The interior's style is questionable, but the steering wheel -- arguably an automobile's most touched feature -- is excellent. It's been quite good for some time because of its extremely small diameter and fairly thick rim, but it now has wider spokes at 9 and 3 making it more comfortable to grip as well as better looking. The controls on the wheel have also been revised. The fussy toggles for cruise and stereo have been replaced with round, 4-direction controls surrounding a central button that are right at the driver's thumbs. And they are flush with the wheel, which makes hitting them by accident -- something that was very easy to do with the previous up/down toggles -- nearly impossible.

Jennifer Misaros, Managing Editor, Digital Platforms

I've driven 2 Honda Civics since the model's 2011 redesign, and I have to say my experiences couldn't have been more different. The 1st Civic, an EX coupe, was a bust by the time I left the parking garage -- the stiff rear suspension and low roof meant I bumped my head every time I went over a speed bump.

Having healed from that ordeal, my mood mellowed when I drove the Civic sedan. And then it brightened the more I drove it.

The rear suspension is still quite stiff, yes, and the steering is still rather vague just off center, but I can't get enough of the car's powertrain. On specs alone, it's outmatched by direct-injected, 6-speed competitors like the Mazda3 and the Hyundai Elantra, but the mix of VTEC 4-cylinder and 5-speed automatic is predictable, brawny, and reasonably efficient.

While merging onto the highway, accelerating from 40 to 70 mph, I gave the throttle a quick kick to downshift once; seeing I needed a bit more speed, I gave it another quick push, and the transmission complied again. This doesn't sound like much -- this is how automatic transmissions are supposed to work -- but it's so much more predictable than, say, the Skyactiv-Drive box in the Mazda3. It's simple, elegant, and effective.

Ben Timmins, Associate Web Editor

Sometimes I think that Hondas are becoming more like Toyotas with each new model. They're really good a value; seem very well built; have strong, efficient powertrains; and welcoming ergonomics, but they're just not as interesting to drive or to look at as they once were. I tried hustling the Civic through corners on a couple occasions, and it wasn't happy; instead, I found that the best idea was to open the sunroof and enjoy an unseasonably warm March evening.

Rusty Blackwell, Copy Editor

When the current Civic arrived about a year ago, we were disappointed that the changes were so incremental. The styling is new but only subtly different; the engine and transmission carry over; and the interior materials are much the same as before, although passenger volume was increased. Still, the Civic sedan was a competent small car before the redesign, and it remains a competent small car today. The 140-hp 4-cylinder mated to a 5-speed automatic does the job but is pretty uninspiring, and the same can be said for the interior materials and layout.

One feature that's new is the Econ button, which when engaged alters throttle response and shift timing to increase fuel economy (a very high priority in the small-car market). The Civic was in Econ mode when I got into it, and it was fine for driving in city traffic. Not so much when merging onto the freeway, as you really have to mash the accelerator to get to cruising speed. You can see how economically you're driving by looking at the bars that flank the digital readout: green bars mean you're doing a good job; blue ones mean you could improve. Obviously, aggressive use of the throttle gives you negative feedback - I decided to just ignore the whole thing after awhile and disabled the Econ mode altogether.

Amy Skogstrom, Managing Editor

For all the moaning and groaning about the new Civic, there's nothing wrong with it that a quick interior redo can't fix. Most consumers, for instance, could care less that the Civic has fewer transmission speeds and a simpler fuel injection system than its newest competitors. And why should they? In fact, I'd argue the Civic is better than many of its competitors in that it doesn't hunt around constantly for the right gear. Its normally aspirated, relatively free-breathing engine likewise provides a welcome contrast to the ever more common direct-injected, turbocharged engines that lug about like diesels. That's not the Civic's only advantage. It also betters most or all of its competition in terms of ride comfort and interior space. The latter is especially true for backseat passengers, as Honda seems to be 1 of the only players in this segment that considers rear legroom and rear-seat ingress and egress.

But boy, does it need that interior materials upgrade. The plastics, the graining, and the cut lines aren't just uncompetitive - they're unprofessional. What's really aggravating is that if you look at the best Civics (the ones from the late 1990s that still seem to be everywhere), you'll find much more attractive, higher-dollar stuff.

David Zenlea, Assistant Editor

Americans continue to feast at the Honda trough despite the critics' consensus that the new Civic doesn't drive as well as the competition. In February, for instance, the Civic was the 5th best-selling vehicle in the United States.

Honda has taken a whipping in the press, but I wouldn't be surprised if executives in Tokyo are dressing their wounds with $100 bills. Think of all the capital required to bring a new Focus, Elantra, or Cruze to market. Now realize that Honda probably spent far less than that billion or so dollars to launch the new Civic. Heck, the most complicated engineering change was likely switching from a multilink rear suspension to a ride-compromising, torsion-beam setup with a cheaper per-unit cost. And with minimal investment Honda still manages to outsell its competitors.

What's going on? Are American car buyers just a bunch of sheep? Well, kind of. But more than that is the fact that Honda continues to get the most basic details right -- a concept that sometimes escapes the motoring press. Forget steering feel and the engine's aural attributes, the Civic feels like the roomiest, airiest car in the compact class. From the driver's seat, you'd think you're in a mid-size car. The climate and audio controls are dead simple to use. Fuel economy, while not class-leading, is competitive with the rest of the segment. Stack those merits on top of a sterling reputation for quality, and it's no surprise that customers have not shied away from the known quantity that is a Honda car.

That reputation won't last, though, if Honda doesn't continue to earn it by putting its engineers -- the sharpest in Japan -- to work developing fresh, innovative, endearing cars. Honda has lapsed where it once crushed American automakers: Civic's interior plastics remind me of park benches made from recycled milk cartons.

Eric Tingwall, Associate Editor

I found it sad yet somehow amusing to watch media outlets - many of which praised the previous-generation Honda Civic months beforehand - savagely trashed the 2012 Civic when it launched last year.

The irony is that many - if not all - of the traits that won the previous-generation vehicle kudos are still found in the new model. The cabin is pleasantly airy, and offers plenty of head- and shoulder room for both front- and rear-seat occupants. The 1.6-liter I-4 won't delight enthusiasts when paired to this 5-speed automatic, but offers decent acceleration along with respectable fuel economy figures.

The Civic's Achilles' heel lies where Honda sought to save cost. The interior's plastics are quite hard, and though they look attractive enough, they feel downright cheap. Honda has pledged an interior upgrade is under way, and like David Zenlea, I think it could go a long way toward curbing the Civic's loudest critics.

Neither of those traits truly ruin a car - in fact, once upon a time, they were par for the course in a C-segment automobile. That said, the Civic now exists in an era where the compact car segment is evolving at an incredibly fast pace. Competitors are narrowing the decades-long gap between their small cars and the Civic; subsequently, any hiccup Honda makes can quickly look like a handicap. I don't necessarily fault Honda for playing it safe with the 2012 Civic, but complacency isn't a sustainable policy in a cutthroat market - at some point, the company is going to truly need to innovate and leapfrog the competition once more.

Evan McCausland, Associate Web Editor

Legend2TL

+1 to the quote below from ^, my parents have a 2012 Civic and it sums it up pretty well. What's interesting is the quality of the components elsewhere on the vehicle are still high quality Honda. From the laser welded S/S exhaust pipes to the sealed spherical sway bar joints, why Honda had to cheapen the plastic you see see the majority of the time was a poor move.

"Eric Tingwall, Associate Editor

I found it sad yet somehow amusing to watch media outlets - many of which praised the previous-generation Honda Civic months beforehand - savagely trashed the 2012 Civic when it launched last year.

The irony is that many - if not all - of the traits that won the previous-generation vehicle kudos are still found in the new model. The cabin is pleasantly airy, and offers plenty of head- and shoulder room for both front- and rear-seat occupants. The 1.6-liter I-4 won't delight enthusiasts when paired to this 5-speed automatic, but offers decent acceleration along with respectable fuel economy figures.

The Civic's Achilles' heel lies where Honda sought to save cost. The interior's plastics are quite hard, and though they look attractive enough, they feel downright cheap. Honda has pledged an interior upgrade is under way, and like David Zenlea, I think it could go a long way toward curbing the Civic's loudest critics.

Neither of those traits truly ruin a car - in fact, once upon a time, they were par for the course in a C-segment automobile. That said, the Civic now exists in an era where the compact car segment is evolving at an incredibly fast pace. Competitors are narrowing the decades-long gap between their small cars and the Civic; subsequently, any hiccup Honda makes can quickly look like a handicap. I don't necessarily fault Honda for playing it safe with the 2012 Civic, but complacency isn't a sustainable policy in a cutthroat market - at some point, the company is going to truly need to innovate and leapfrog the competition once more."

TSX69

Honda Wins Appeal of Small Claims Hybrid Judgment

A judge overturned a nearly $10,000 small-claims judgment against American Honda Motor Co. that was won by a car owner who said the automaker misrepresented the gas mileage of her hybrid Civic, according to a ruling released Wednesday.

Superior Court Judge Dudley W. Gray II ruled Tuesday on Honda's appeal of a small-claims court commissioner's award of $9,867 to Civic owner Heather Peters. A phone message left for Honda's attorney, Roy Brisbois, was not immediately returned.

Peters opted out of a class-action settlement giving some 200,000 owners between $100 and $200 each, plus a rebate if they buy a new Honda, electing instead to sue the automaker on her own.

The ruling will not have a direct effect on any other cases involving the mileage claim.

Peters, a lawyer, previously urged Honda owners to take the small-claims route as she did, and her initial success led some 1,700 other hybrid owners to follow suit.

Gray's ruling found, among other issues, that while Peters had standing to bring the case in state court, federal regulations govern fuel economy ratings posted on vehicles and related advertising claims. The ruling also said most owners of that type of car achieve fuel economy close to federal Environmental Protection Agency estimates.

In addition, the judge said EPA miles per gallon ratings are for comparison among vehicles and don't account for various factors such as the condition of the car or the length of the trip, that can affect mileage.

“Despite these many variables, most of the owners of the subject vehicle achieve fuel economy very close to the EPA estimate,” Gray wrote.

Peters argued that Honda knew it had problems with the hybrid cars but continued to advertise them as an alternative to high gas prices and a way to help the environment.

But Gray said the automaker's advertising slogans “are not specific promises of anything.”

Peters also said her battery failed early on and was never again fully charged after she received a software update, leaving the car to run almost entirely on gasoline.

“The court finds it was designed to prolong the life of the battery, not to increase mileage or performance of the vehicle,” Gray said of the software update.

Peters' “subjective impressions of sluggishness or impaired safety are unsupported by any objective evidence,” he said.

Peters has said her purpose for not being part of the settlement was to hold Honda accountable for false advertising. Her suit was a unique end run around the class-action process that she said offered too little to Honda owners and too much to lawyers.

A judge has valued the class-action settlement at $170 million. Attorneys for the plaintiffs have placed the value between $87.5 million and $461.3 million, depending largely on how many people accept rebates of up to $1,500.

phile

finally, some brains in the judicial system

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Aman

Hella

I'm happier than I should be that they overturned the ruling.

dom

But not only is the interior cheap, it simply looks terrible. Odd shapes and angles everywhere. I'm hoping they lay it out slightly differently as well but that's doubtful at this point.

But the reviewers have it right, it's a interior redo away from being a very good car. Although I'd like to see the styling revamped as well to be more agressive, but again doubtful.

And why is it still selling well? Why does a boring, old, 4 speed equipped Corolla with segment worst FE still top the compact sales charts? Name recognition.

Not to mention the aggressive incentives on Civics these days.

Moog-Type-S

http://www.leftlanenews.com/judge-ov...id-ruling.html

biker

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-come-apart-/1

biker

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...chback-to-us/1

Type34

Man Honda blew the latest Civic. Not used to seeing Honda scramble.

(thanks Biker for your consistent updates)