BMW: Development and Technology News
#641
Back to the Carplay topic, found this article from C&D that explains:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ost-explainer/
Cliffs: Basically the fee is to help cover costs BMW will expend in order to keep their infotainment system current (and bug free) with rather regular Carplay software updates from Apple. They don't want an update to cause a problem that annoys the owners.
Article made the point that this issue isn't unique to BMW and is a risk for all car manufacturers. But others chose (currently) to eat the cost. Seems like they will be watching closely how this goes with BMW customers.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ost-explainer/
Cliffs: Basically the fee is to help cover costs BMW will expend in order to keep their infotainment system current (and bug free) with rather regular Carplay software updates from Apple. They don't want an update to cause a problem that annoys the owners.
Article made the point that this issue isn't unique to BMW and is a risk for all car manufacturers. But others chose (currently) to eat the cost. Seems like they will be watching closely how this goes with BMW customers.
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oonowindoo (08-05-2019),
ttribe (08-04-2019)
#642
Back to the Carplay topic, found this article from C&D that explains:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ost-explainer/
Cliffs: Basically the fee is to help cover costs BMW will expend in order to keep their infotainment system current (and bug free) with rather regular Carplay software updates from Apple. They don't want an update to cause a problem that annoys the owners.
Article made the point that this issue isn't unique to BMW and is a risk for all car manufacturers. But others chose (currently) to eat the cost. Seems like they will be watching closely how this goes with BMW customers.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ost-explainer/
Cliffs: Basically the fee is to help cover costs BMW will expend in order to keep their infotainment system current (and bug free) with rather regular Carplay software updates from Apple. They don't want an update to cause a problem that annoys the owners.
Article made the point that this issue isn't unique to BMW and is a risk for all car manufacturers. But others chose (currently) to eat the cost. Seems like they will be watching closely how this goes with BMW customers.
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00TL-P3.2 (08-05-2019)
#643
They could bake $300 into the purchase price. But few (if any) companies actually take that money and put it in a fund to be used 5 years down the road. It's profit, and the motivation is for them to declare it as profit in the quarter it was earned. Diverting any money like that into a sustainment group chips away at the here-and-now bottom line, which is really what they are after. Plus, if the problem is 3 years down the road, now your new car profits are having to pay for a fix for 3 year old cars.
The annual fee gives them a source of revenue not tied to their profit margins on car sales and would make it easier to sustain a group.
I'm wondering how many auto makers have really thought through the problem. It's entirely possible that other car makers don't care if the system gets buggy after 4-5 years of updates.
#644
I think this is going to relate to how business view revenue and profit.
They could bake $300 into the purchase price. But few (if any) companies actually take that money and put it in a fund to be used 5 years down the road. It's profit, and the motivation is for them to declare it as profit in the quarter it was earned. Diverting any money like that into a sustainment group chips away at the here-and-now bottom line, which is really what they are after. Plus, if the problem is 3 years down the road, now your new car profits are having to pay for a fix for 3 year old cars.
The annual fee gives them a source of revenue not tied to their profit margins on car sales and would make it easier to sustain a group.
I'm wondering how many auto makers have really thought through the problem. It's entirely possible that other car makers don't care if the system gets buggy after 4-5 years of updates.
They could bake $300 into the purchase price. But few (if any) companies actually take that money and put it in a fund to be used 5 years down the road. It's profit, and the motivation is for them to declare it as profit in the quarter it was earned. Diverting any money like that into a sustainment group chips away at the here-and-now bottom line, which is really what they are after. Plus, if the problem is 3 years down the road, now your new car profits are having to pay for a fix for 3 year old cars.
The annual fee gives them a source of revenue not tied to their profit margins on car sales and would make it easier to sustain a group.
I'm wondering how many auto makers have really thought through the problem. It's entirely possible that other car makers don't care if the system gets buggy after 4-5 years of updates.
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00TL-P3.2 (08-05-2019)
#645
Remember that Car Play and Android Auto are not driven from the car's infotainment, they are driven from the phone. The CP/AA integration is a conduit for your phone to display something on your screen. So, provided that conduit is still there, there shouldn't be any updates required to the car in order to update CP/AA. My Android Auto just updated and I did nothing to the car. The buggy nature of infotainment is a different problem unrelated to phone integration.
#646
Remember that Car Play and Android Auto are not driven from the car's infotainment, they are driven from the phone. The CP/AA integration is a conduit for your phone to display something on your screen. So, provided that conduit is still there, there shouldn't be any updates required to the car in order to update CP/AA. My Android Auto just updated and I did nothing to the car. The buggy nature of infotainment is a different problem unrelated to phone integration.
I am actually pretty ignorant about this, my car does not have it. My sister's one-year old Macan requires the iPhone to be plugged in. Apparently BMW is working on wireless Car Play.
#647
There are newer versions that allow for wireless integration but to my understanding that's a hardware change, not a software one. My VW and the wife's Subie are both wired plug in to get AA to run.
#650
All the newer BMWs all have it... since 2017 i think...
https://www.cars.com/articles/wirele...ey-now-407297/
I dont know how it works tho since i dont use Apple product. But others said it is great... just like a normal bluetooth connection.
https://www.cars.com/articles/wirele...ey-now-407297/
I dont know how it works tho since i dont use Apple product. But others said it is great... just like a normal bluetooth connection.
#652
Perhaps the BMW 3 Series and 6 Series Gran Turismo models took niches just a smidge too far. For anyone still yearning for one of the quirky sedan/coupe/hatchback mashups, time is running short.
BMW noted in its full-range 2020 model year update last week that the 3 Series GT and 6 Series GT will not return. Ditto for the 6 Series Gran Coupe, which is basically a 6 Series with two extra doors. The end of the 6 Series variants comes as no surprise as the 8 Series takes over flagship duties. The 8 Series range just added its own Gran Coupe model, too.
The German automaker telegraphed its intentions this past March when it noted the 3 Series GT would not receive a replacement. Instead, BMW says it wants to put its resources into electric vehicles and electrified cars. The market also continues to prefer utility vehicles such as SUVs, of which BMW offers plenty.
Looking at the company's breadwinner models, the X3, X4, X5 and X6 are all slated to enter production this month before they start trickling into dealers across the US. Each SUV received a thorough refresh with design changes. Each also costs at least $500 more than the 2019 model each replaces. On the smaller SUV side, a refreshed 2020 X1 is coming next month, and the 2020 X2 entered production in July.
Within BMW's passenger car portfolio, changes are rather minor. The 2020 3 Series gains a new optional Premium Package and the price for the Live Cockpit Professional is now $1,100 less expensive. The 4 Series gains a more robust suite of standard active safety features, and the 7 Series soldiers on with its massive grille and controversial new looks. We regret to inform BMW 5 Series shoppers that a CD player is no longer available.
Moving forward, we're going to see plenty of new electric cars and a greater focus on autonomous-driving technologies. BMW has partnered with rival Daimler to Level 3 and Level 4 self-driving car research. The company has also promised its flagship electric SUV, the iNext, will include Level 3 self-driving abilities. On the SAE scale of autonomy, that's one level shy of keeping the car from handing back control should something go awry.
BMW noted in its full-range 2020 model year update last week that the 3 Series GT and 6 Series GT will not return. Ditto for the 6 Series Gran Coupe, which is basically a 6 Series with two extra doors. The end of the 6 Series variants comes as no surprise as the 8 Series takes over flagship duties. The 8 Series range just added its own Gran Coupe model, too.
The German automaker telegraphed its intentions this past March when it noted the 3 Series GT would not receive a replacement. Instead, BMW says it wants to put its resources into electric vehicles and electrified cars. The market also continues to prefer utility vehicles such as SUVs, of which BMW offers plenty.
Looking at the company's breadwinner models, the X3, X4, X5 and X6 are all slated to enter production this month before they start trickling into dealers across the US. Each SUV received a thorough refresh with design changes. Each also costs at least $500 more than the 2019 model each replaces. On the smaller SUV side, a refreshed 2020 X1 is coming next month, and the 2020 X2 entered production in July.
Within BMW's passenger car portfolio, changes are rather minor. The 2020 3 Series gains a new optional Premium Package and the price for the Live Cockpit Professional is now $1,100 less expensive. The 4 Series gains a more robust suite of standard active safety features, and the 7 Series soldiers on with its massive grille and controversial new looks. We regret to inform BMW 5 Series shoppers that a CD player is no longer available.
Moving forward, we're going to see plenty of new electric cars and a greater focus on autonomous-driving technologies. BMW has partnered with rival Daimler to Level 3 and Level 4 self-driving car research. The company has also promised its flagship electric SUV, the iNext, will include Level 3 self-driving abilities. On the SAE scale of autonomy, that's one level shy of keeping the car from handing back control should something go awry.
#656
#658
https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/03/03/b...rand-identity/
With every new generation of customers, BMW is reshaping their identity. This thought process started over 100 years ago and it continues in 2020 with a new chapter in their book. In a recent call with Jens Thiemer, Senior Vice President BMW Customer Brand, we learned about some exciting changes in the identify of the Bavarian brand.
For starters, the iconic BMW roundel gets a new and fresh design. According to Thiemer, BMW has to adapt to a new customer base, a younger generation of buyers who are digitally natives.
“The new logo and brand design symbolizes the importance and relevance of the brand for mobility and the joy of driving in the future,” Thiemer told us.
The new BMW logo retains the same shape, but its within this shape that the design takes a new approach. The middle still has the blue and white colors of the Bavarian state. The font has also been shaped up differently. The outer ring now has a flat design in white, while some gradients fill the rest of the logo.
Furthermore, Thiemer says that since “BMW is becoming a relationship brand”, the new logo will invite customers to rediscover the brand with its history and products.
With the visual and identity changes, BMW wants to be perceived even more openly and more accessible. It also marks the start of the electric revolution at BMW, alongside the BMW Concept i4 electric car.
The company’s sub-brands – BMW i and BMW M – are also getting their own new logos. The ///M badge is now flat, a 2D interpretation of “The Most Powerful Letter In The World”.
The i sub-brand continues down the same path with a refreshed look which will be part of the future electric and plug-in hybrid family.
So far, no plans to have the new logo on cars. It mainly is for communication purposes (online and offline).
To highlight the evolution of their roundel/logo, BMW published a new graphic which remind us of the changes in the last decade.
For starters, the iconic BMW roundel gets a new and fresh design. According to Thiemer, BMW has to adapt to a new customer base, a younger generation of buyers who are digitally natives.
“The new logo and brand design symbolizes the importance and relevance of the brand for mobility and the joy of driving in the future,” Thiemer told us.
The new BMW logo retains the same shape, but its within this shape that the design takes a new approach. The middle still has the blue and white colors of the Bavarian state. The font has also been shaped up differently. The outer ring now has a flat design in white, while some gradients fill the rest of the logo.
Furthermore, Thiemer says that since “BMW is becoming a relationship brand”, the new logo will invite customers to rediscover the brand with its history and products.
With the visual and identity changes, BMW wants to be perceived even more openly and more accessible. It also marks the start of the electric revolution at BMW, alongside the BMW Concept i4 electric car.
The company’s sub-brands – BMW i and BMW M – are also getting their own new logos. The ///M badge is now flat, a 2D interpretation of “The Most Powerful Letter In The World”.
The i sub-brand continues down the same path with a refreshed look which will be part of the future electric and plug-in hybrid family.
So far, no plans to have the new logo on cars. It mainly is for communication purposes (online and offline).
To highlight the evolution of their roundel/logo, BMW published a new graphic which remind us of the changes in the last decade.
#659
The M and the I logo are cool - but not getting why the main logo needed a change. Not that I don't like it - I don't care really, but I think the current logo has more interest. But to characterize the change to represent, "mobility and the joy of driving" to "digital natives"....
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Comfy (03-05-2020)
#663
Actually I like the new logo. I agree that it is simply a marketing BS to divert attention from all the EV hype happening. They want to remind the public that “Hey we’re here and are looking at EV tech too, here’s the proof”.
Last edited by Comfy; 03-06-2020 at 07:51 AM.
#664
The widely-circulated belief that an electric powertrain doesn't need to be cooled is completely false. What's accurate is that an electric car doesn't always need a grille on its front end, but BMW told Autoblog that's not an excuse to move away from the twin kidneys that have characterized nearly all of its models since the 1930s.
Domagoj Dukec, the soft-spoken head of BMW's design department, pointed out the decades-old twin-kidney grille is the biggest differentiator between the Munich-based firm and rivals from Germany and abroad. It's more than a cooling tool; it establishes the car's identity. It's here to stay regardless of whether his team draws an electric sedan or one powered by a gasoline-burning straight-six. Going electric might force stylists to prioritize form over function, but an emphasis on design is what spawned this styling cue nearly nine decades ago.
"If you go really back in time to when the kidney started, there was a big difference between it and the classic grilles of other manufacturers. Look at the grille of a Rolls-Royce, for example. It was always the same shape as the radiator behind it. For BMW, however, it was always the face of the car, and it wasn't shaped like the radiator. The 328 had vertical openings. Splitting the grille in the middle was not the most efficient way to do it, but it was an aesthetic solution," he said, referencing a roadster manufactured between 1936 and 1940.
The firm's range will grow in the 2020s with the addition of electric models, like the i4 (pictured), but Dukec doesn't see the need to give each one a twin-kidney grille as a constraint. He instead instructs his team to tweak the feature's shape and dimensions to ensure the end product suits each car's character well. This strategy has spawned some of BMW's most polarizing designs, like the face-lifted 7 Series, but it has worked as intended.
BMW is split into three pillars: M, i, and the core brand. This balanced structure could easily enable stylists to create three distinct design identities to differentiate them, but that's not the order of the day in 2020.
"We no longer see i on one side, positioned as the angel on the left shoulder, and M on the right shoulder as BMW's devil. This doesn't work anymore," he said. "We don't want to make three parallel universes where we have three brands with different characters. We want to strengthen BMW as a brand with the help of two sub-brands which have two different roles. M4, i4, and 4 customers have one thing in common: They love BMW."
We'll need to wait a little bit longer to find out what this strategy looks like on the road or in one of the company's showrooms. The next-generation 4 Series is expected to break cover before the end of 2020, the M4 based on it should make its debut in 2021, and the production version of the i4 concept will enter production in 2022.
In the meantime, Dukec had a message for those who deprecate the size of BMW's recent grilles.
"In the past, some people were actually complaining that we weren't as self-confident as other brands, and no one complains about them when they have a grille that stretches [all the way] from left to right. Everybody who loves BMW will get used to it. People who are complaining are often not customers."
Domagoj Dukec, the soft-spoken head of BMW's design department, pointed out the decades-old twin-kidney grille is the biggest differentiator between the Munich-based firm and rivals from Germany and abroad. It's more than a cooling tool; it establishes the car's identity. It's here to stay regardless of whether his team draws an electric sedan or one powered by a gasoline-burning straight-six. Going electric might force stylists to prioritize form over function, but an emphasis on design is what spawned this styling cue nearly nine decades ago.
"If you go really back in time to when the kidney started, there was a big difference between it and the classic grilles of other manufacturers. Look at the grille of a Rolls-Royce, for example. It was always the same shape as the radiator behind it. For BMW, however, it was always the face of the car, and it wasn't shaped like the radiator. The 328 had vertical openings. Splitting the grille in the middle was not the most efficient way to do it, but it was an aesthetic solution," he said, referencing a roadster manufactured between 1936 and 1940.
The firm's range will grow in the 2020s with the addition of electric models, like the i4 (pictured), but Dukec doesn't see the need to give each one a twin-kidney grille as a constraint. He instead instructs his team to tweak the feature's shape and dimensions to ensure the end product suits each car's character well. This strategy has spawned some of BMW's most polarizing designs, like the face-lifted 7 Series, but it has worked as intended.
BMW is split into three pillars: M, i, and the core brand. This balanced structure could easily enable stylists to create three distinct design identities to differentiate them, but that's not the order of the day in 2020.
"We no longer see i on one side, positioned as the angel on the left shoulder, and M on the right shoulder as BMW's devil. This doesn't work anymore," he said. "We don't want to make three parallel universes where we have three brands with different characters. We want to strengthen BMW as a brand with the help of two sub-brands which have two different roles. M4, i4, and 4 customers have one thing in common: They love BMW."
We'll need to wait a little bit longer to find out what this strategy looks like on the road or in one of the company's showrooms. The next-generation 4 Series is expected to break cover before the end of 2020, the M4 based on it should make its debut in 2021, and the production version of the i4 concept will enter production in 2022.
In the meantime, Dukec had a message for those who deprecate the size of BMW's recent grilles.
"In the past, some people were actually complaining that we weren't as self-confident as other brands, and no one complains about them when they have a grille that stretches [all the way] from left to right. Everybody who loves BMW will get used to it. People who are complaining are often not customers."
#666
FRANKFURT — BMW announced its intentions to offer a fully electric 5 Series, 7 Series and X1 as part of a sweeping product overhaul unveiled on Monday as the German carmaker seeks to lower vehicle emissions during production and on the road.
All three of those vehicles will be offered in an array of powertrain choices: full electric, plug-in hybrid and gas-only with a 48-volt mild-hybrid system. Europe will also get diesels, but we don't expect those to make it to the U.S.
"In ten years, the goal is to have a total of more than seven million electrified BMW Group vehicles on the roads – around two thirds of them with a fully-electric drivetrain," the carmaker said on Monday.
Carmakers have been pushing electric cars ever since European lawmakers in December 2018 ordered a cut in carbon dioxide emissions from cars by 37.5% by 2030 compared with 2021 levels. This will come after a 40% emissions cut between 2007 and 2021.
Starting next year, BMW said it will offer five fully-electric cars: the BMW i3, the MINI Cooper SE, the BMW iX3, the BMW iNEXT and the BMW i4. In total, BMW plans to have 25 electrified models on the roads by 2023, half of them fully electric.
As for the fully electric 5 Series, Chief Executive Oliver Zipse declined to give a launch date. There's no hard launch date for the electric X1 or 7 Series either, but BMW said the electric 7 Series will arrive when the next-gen 7 Series does.
BMW said its management remuneration will be more closely aligned with compliance to climate targets and that carbon emissions from production and sites would be lowered by 80% per vehicle.
All three of those vehicles will be offered in an array of powertrain choices: full electric, plug-in hybrid and gas-only with a 48-volt mild-hybrid system. Europe will also get diesels, but we don't expect those to make it to the U.S.
"In ten years, the goal is to have a total of more than seven million electrified BMW Group vehicles on the roads – around two thirds of them with a fully-electric drivetrain," the carmaker said on Monday.
Carmakers have been pushing electric cars ever since European lawmakers in December 2018 ordered a cut in carbon dioxide emissions from cars by 37.5% by 2030 compared with 2021 levels. This will come after a 40% emissions cut between 2007 and 2021.
Starting next year, BMW said it will offer five fully-electric cars: the BMW i3, the MINI Cooper SE, the BMW iX3, the BMW iNEXT and the BMW i4. In total, BMW plans to have 25 electrified models on the roads by 2023, half of them fully electric.
As for the fully electric 5 Series, Chief Executive Oliver Zipse declined to give a launch date. There's no hard launch date for the electric X1 or 7 Series either, but BMW said the electric 7 Series will arrive when the next-gen 7 Series does.
BMW said its management remuneration will be more closely aligned with compliance to climate targets and that carbon emissions from production and sites would be lowered by 80% per vehicle.
#667
In 3-4 years the choices for electric are going to be very interesting. The power of electric and the already great driving dynamic of a BMW are going to make for a great pairing.
#668
Guess the executives are eating their every word now.
Combine that with the BMW dealerships. What will they do now? . Who (and how) will they squeeze for money?
It all depends on the target customers, whether the majority are willing to pay 30k extra for nice interiors alone?
#669
It's not just the nice interiors, it's also the badge on the hood and the way it drives. To answer your question on if people are willing to pay for it, the answer is yes. If they weren't, BMW would have been out of business decades ago.
The dealership model is an interesting one that will be a big point of contention going forward.
The dealership model is an interesting one that will be a big point of contention going forward.
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Comfy (07-28-2020)
#670
You know, I didn't consider the dealership. We just took our X5 in for it's 50k service and . Maintenance is obnoxiously expensive.
No oil changes, no plugs, no fluids. Just brakes and cabin filter is all I can think of. Alignments of course. Maybe electric motors need cleaning? But in reality, any manufacturer is going to have this issue. I strongly suspect that these electrics are going to all require some kind of subscription, so they'll get us in subscription services. They sort-of already do.
And I agree on price as well - 60k for an electric X1 (just guessing, but I would not doubt it).....no thank you.
No oil changes, no plugs, no fluids. Just brakes and cabin filter is all I can think of. Alignments of course. Maybe electric motors need cleaning? But in reality, any manufacturer is going to have this issue. I strongly suspect that these electrics are going to all require some kind of subscription, so they'll get us in subscription services. They sort-of already do.
And I agree on price as well - 60k for an electric X1 (just guessing, but I would not doubt it).....no thank you.
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Comfy (07-28-2020)
#671
But what remains to be seen are the prices. Tesla with its bare bone fit and finish combined with online sales is already in BMW price category, and they are improving very quickly. Isn’t BMW the manufacturer who said (after disassembling a Model 3 ) that this car would never be profitable due to the component pricing and its structure.
Guess the executives are eating their every word now.
Combine that with the BMW dealerships. What will they do now? . Who (and how) will they squeeze for money?
It all depends on the target customers, whether the majority are willing to pay 30k extra for nice interiors alone?
Guess the executives are eating their every word now.
Combine that with the BMW dealerships. What will they do now? . Who (and how) will they squeeze for money?
It all depends on the target customers, whether the majority are willing to pay 30k extra for nice interiors alone?
on top of that, BMW heavily subsidize their leasing program, especially on EV cars + any government incentives.
While the old i3 was $45k msrp... you could lease 1 for $200 bux....
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-28-2020 at 02:17 PM.
#672
30K? i4 will be similar priced as M440i.. which is around 60k... unlike Tesla.. BMW actually gives out discount and they dont count fuel saving as a form of discount given by Tesla
on top of that, BMW heavily subsidize their leasing program, especially on EV cars + any government incentives.
While the old i3 was $45k msrp... you could lease 1 for $200 bux....
on top of that, BMW heavily subsidize their leasing program, especially on EV cars + any government incentives.
While the old i3 was $45k msrp... you could lease 1 for $200 bux....
#673
I am just using i3 as an example to show MSRP of a car isnt everything.
BTW: if i were in the market for an E-car 3 or 4 years ago... i would have gotten an i3 with extender for $250 a month. My coworker got one and I have driven many times because the only way for me to not get dizzy is driving it .... pretty fast... but i never had the confidence to make any fast turns knowing how narrow those tires are.
i take that over that Fiat, Golf E or whatever others in that price range any day.
Because it is so cheap, if the range covers your commute, the gas $$ you saved pays for the monthly car payment.
BTW: if i were in the market for an E-car 3 or 4 years ago... i would have gotten an i3 with extender for $250 a month. My coworker got one and I have driven many times because the only way for me to not get dizzy is driving it .... pretty fast... but i never had the confidence to make any fast turns knowing how narrow those tires are.
i take that over that Fiat, Golf E or whatever others in that price range any day.
Because it is so cheap, if the range covers your commute, the gas $$ you saved pays for the monthly car payment.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-28-2020 at 04:49 PM.
#674
It's not just the nice interiors, it's also the badge on the hood and the way it drives. To answer your question on if people are willing to pay for it, the answer is yes. If they weren't, BMW would have been out of business decades ago.
The dealership model is an interesting one that will be a big point of contention going forward.
The dealership model is an interesting one that will be a big point of contention going forward.
If BMW decides to eat the cost, then their profit margins will suffer enormously and will not be sustainable in the long run. They don’t have the vertical integration structure or manufacture batteries such as a Tesla. I believe they give sub contracts to vendors for specific parts.
Last edited by Comfy; 07-28-2020 at 07:40 PM.
#675
I am just using i3 as an example to show MSRP of a car isnt everything.
BTW: if i were in the market for an E-car 3 or 4 years ago... i would have gotten an i3 with extender for $250 a month. My coworker got one and I have driven many times because the only way for me to not get dizzy is driving it .... pretty fast... but i never had the confidence to make any fast turns knowing how narrow those tires are.
i take that over that Fiat, Golf E or whatever others in that price range any day.
Because it is so cheap, if the range covers your commute, the gas $$ you saved pays for the monthly car payment.
BTW: if i were in the market for an E-car 3 or 4 years ago... i would have gotten an i3 with extender for $250 a month. My coworker got one and I have driven many times because the only way for me to not get dizzy is driving it .... pretty fast... but i never had the confidence to make any fast turns knowing how narrow those tires are.
i take that over that Fiat, Golf E or whatever others in that price range any day.
Because it is so cheap, if the range covers your commute, the gas $$ you saved pays for the monthly car payment.
At some point money plays into the equation. Not everyone has unlimited car funds (I don’t know about you) to keep on paying if a much cheaper and reasonably equivalent one (okay better one ) exists.
You don’t have to agree with me on anything. I understand that you have different priorities and we all are different.
#677
I am just using i3 as an example to show MSRP of a car isnt everything.
BTW: if i were in the market for an E-car 3 or 4 years ago... i would have gotten an i3 with extender for $250 a month. My coworker got one and I have driven many times because the only way for me to not get dizzy is driving it .... pretty fast... but i never had the confidence to make any fast turns knowing how narrow those tires are.
i take that over that Fiat, Golf E or whatever others in that price range any day.
Because it is so cheap, if the range covers your commute, the gas $$ you saved pays for the monthly car payment.
BTW: if i were in the market for an E-car 3 or 4 years ago... i would have gotten an i3 with extender for $250 a month. My coworker got one and I have driven many times because the only way for me to not get dizzy is driving it .... pretty fast... but i never had the confidence to make any fast turns knowing how narrow those tires are.
i take that over that Fiat, Golf E or whatever others in that price range any day.
Because it is so cheap, if the range covers your commute, the gas $$ you saved pays for the monthly car payment.
I agree that the BMW has a lot of badge value which many crave. What I’m trying to say is it’ll be hard for BMW to outclass a Tesla in performance or range specs within a given price. Tesla is already expensive as it is (compared to a mainstream car). Now performance being the hallmark of BMW, being outclassed by a (slightly) cheaper car would be embarrassing to say the least. I’m assuming that the peak sales of BMW cars prices fall in the range of $50-70k if you spread them out in a Gaussian curve. If that average price point moves by $10-15k north (for EV variants) will that be competitive? A certain percentage of people will buy them regardless, but what about the majority of potential customers? They will have to make some hard choices for sure.
If BMW decides to eat the cost, then their profit margins will suffer enormously and will not be sustainable in the long run. They don’t have the vertical integration structure or manufacture batteries such as a Tesla. I believe they give sub contracts to vendors for specific parts.
If BMW decides to eat the cost, then their profit margins will suffer enormously and will not be sustainable in the long run. They don’t have the vertical integration structure or manufacture batteries such as a Tesla. I believe they give sub contracts to vendors for specific parts.
The Mustang GT is already faster than a M3/M4 at half the price. The previous gen Mustang GT was as fast around a race track as the previous gen M3. Do you think most people care? Nope. Those two are not cross shopped at all whatsoever.
The big advantage BMW has over Tesla is the lease program. That's where the sales will be won.
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Comfy (07-29-2020)
#678
At this point, one could argue that Tesla has more badge appeal (not prestige) than BMW.
https://acurazine.com/forums/automot.../#post16606545
I doubt that many people care about the performance, unless we're factoring in things like range. Speed and acceleration alone aren't going to win over your average base model 3-series owners.
I remember hearing it all the time at work. People don't talk wanting a Model X, a Model 3 Performance, or a P100D whatever. They talk about wanting "a Tesla".
https://acurazine.com/forums/automot.../#post16606545
I doubt that many people care about the performance, unless we're factoring in things like range. Speed and acceleration alone aren't going to win over your average base model 3-series owners.
I remember hearing it all the time at work. People don't talk wanting a Model X, a Model 3 Performance, or a P100D whatever. They talk about wanting "a Tesla".
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Comfy (07-29-2020)
#679
It honestly won't matter. Most people buying a BMW do so for the badge, not the performance. If someone is set on a "luxury car" they are going to go BMW or Benz. Tesla is now rising in that luxury market but still doesn't have the badge tax yet or the "niceness" that you get in one of those.
The Mustang GT is already faster than a M3/M4 at half the price. The previous gen Mustang GT was as fast around a race track as the previous gen M3. Do you think most people care? Nope. Those two are not cross shopped at all whatsoever.
The big advantage BMW has over Tesla is the lease program. That's where the sales will be won.
The Mustang GT is already faster than a M3/M4 at half the price. The previous gen Mustang GT was as fast around a race track as the previous gen M3. Do you think most people care? Nope. Those two are not cross shopped at all whatsoever.
The big advantage BMW has over Tesla is the lease program. That's where the sales will be won.
I see a ton of 320i & basic C300 running around here. Starting to see more CLA/A as well.
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Comfy (07-29-2020)
#680
It honestly won't matter. Most people buying a BMW do so for the badge, not the performance. If someone is set on a "luxury car" they are going to go BMW or Benz. Tesla is now rising in that luxury market but still doesn't have the badge tax yet .....
The big advantage BMW has over Tesla is the lease program. That's where the sales will be won.
I might be mistaken but I thought Tesla started leases as well very recently.