BMW: Development and Technology News
#441
Azine Jabroni
#442
Team Owner
BMW is like a mad dog, trying to bite everyone who has had some success.
Too bad BMW is not targeting Acura.
Too bad BMW is not targeting Acura.
#443
Senior Moderator
#444
I'm the Firestarter
#445
Senior Moderator
A blast from the past video BMW issued recently...neat!
#446
Senior Moderator
E30 M3 to inspire new BMW M
BMW is looking to the ever-popular E30 M3 for design inspiration for a future M car project, according to BMW Group design director Adrian van Hooydonk. “The E30 M3 has a really big fan base, and we are going to be taking cues from it for a future product,” he said.
Hooydonk wouldn’t elaborate on which model might get the E30 M3 treatment, but it’s likely to be a special edition of the upcoming BMW M2 that could be released to celebrate the company’s 100th anniversary next year.
The M2, which is set to be launched at the end of this year, has already been spotted testing. It is expected to get more than 370bhp from a new 3.0-litre six-cylinder engine that is unrelated to the powertrains fitted to the bigger M3 and M4 models.
Key design cues that could reappear on an E30-inspired M2 include the distinctive wheelarch crease and wing. Any aerodynamic devices will be fixed. “With M cars, we try to get the downforce right without moveable aero. It’s the most authentic way,” said Hooydonk.
Weight saving will also be key. M cars already feature carbonfibre and composite plastics, but Hooydonk said: “I’d have to give Colin Chapman the credit for the ‘performance through light weight’ mantra, but that was another big factor for the E30, and that is also a priority for us.”
With the existing M235i coupé weighing 1535kg, a lightweight M2 should come in at closer to 1400kg.
Hooydonk wouldn’t elaborate on which model might get the E30 M3 treatment, but it’s likely to be a special edition of the upcoming BMW M2 that could be released to celebrate the company’s 100th anniversary next year.
The M2, which is set to be launched at the end of this year, has already been spotted testing. It is expected to get more than 370bhp from a new 3.0-litre six-cylinder engine that is unrelated to the powertrains fitted to the bigger M3 and M4 models.
Key design cues that could reappear on an E30-inspired M2 include the distinctive wheelarch crease and wing. Any aerodynamic devices will be fixed. “With M cars, we try to get the downforce right without moveable aero. It’s the most authentic way,” said Hooydonk.
Weight saving will also be key. M cars already feature carbonfibre and composite plastics, but Hooydonk said: “I’d have to give Colin Chapman the credit for the ‘performance through light weight’ mantra, but that was another big factor for the E30, and that is also a priority for us.”
With the existing M235i coupé weighing 1535kg, a lightweight M2 should come in at closer to 1400kg.
#447
Senior Moderator
Preparing Concept Duo For 2015 Pebble Beach Concours
From here: BMW Preparing Concept Duo For 2015 Pebble Beach Concours
BMW has confirmed plans to unveil two new concept cars in the lead up to the 2015 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance taking place in mid-August. The German automaker will unveil the concepts on August 13 at its own BMW Villa set up in Monterey, with key executives including BMW brand design chief Karim Habib and BMW M R&D chief Dirk Haecker on hand to help present them.
The concepts help celebrate the 40th anniversary of the establishment of BMW of North America, and right now all we have is this single teaser sketch of a futuristic sports steering wheel with typical BMW M styling cues.
ALSO SEE: Ford Developing Headlights Smarter Than Your Average Glare: Video
Given the fact that one of BMW M’s top executives is presenting the concepts, they could be previews of two upcoming models from the official performance division of the German automaker: the M2 and M4 GTS. Recall that BMW used 2013’s Pebble Beach Concours to originally preview the 2015 M4 with a near-production concept.
The concepts help celebrate the 40th anniversary of the establishment of BMW of North America, and right now all we have is this single teaser sketch of a futuristic sports steering wheel with typical BMW M styling cues.
ALSO SEE: Ford Developing Headlights Smarter Than Your Average Glare: Video
Given the fact that one of BMW M’s top executives is presenting the concepts, they could be previews of two upcoming models from the official performance division of the German automaker: the M2 and M4 GTS. Recall that BMW used 2013’s Pebble Beach Concours to originally preview the 2015 M4 with a near-production concept.
#448
Senior Moderator
Quad-Turbocharged Diesels
In the M550d and the X5 xDrive50d M-Performance, BMW already offers engines with three turbochargers.
But recent reports indicate that BMW is headed for four turbos. We'll see a quad-turbocharged diesel offering from company, possibly as soon as 2016.
According to Autocar, the fourth snail is likely to come in an electrically driven unit, which would pressurize the existing system to help eliminate lag, and improve low RPM performance. Of course, it's entirely possibly the new system will be completely conventional. Output for the new 3.0 mill is expected to be north of the 400 horsepower and 590 pound-feet of torque.
Expect to see the first application of the new system on the forthcoming M750d, set to hit showrooms sometime next year.
Given the ever-encroaching emissions and efficiency regulations, we're certain to see multiple-turbo setups becoming more common. Though for now, a set of four would puts any vehicles so equipped from BMW into rare company. The last production car to feature a quad-turbocharged system was Bugatti's Veyron.
But recent reports indicate that BMW is headed for four turbos. We'll see a quad-turbocharged diesel offering from company, possibly as soon as 2016.
According to Autocar, the fourth snail is likely to come in an electrically driven unit, which would pressurize the existing system to help eliminate lag, and improve low RPM performance. Of course, it's entirely possibly the new system will be completely conventional. Output for the new 3.0 mill is expected to be north of the 400 horsepower and 590 pound-feet of torque.
Expect to see the first application of the new system on the forthcoming M750d, set to hit showrooms sometime next year.
Given the ever-encroaching emissions and efficiency regulations, we're certain to see multiple-turbo setups becoming more common. Though for now, a set of four would puts any vehicles so equipped from BMW into rare company. The last production car to feature a quad-turbocharged system was Bugatti's Veyron.
#449
Team Owner
Can they let Acura borrow one turbo at least since BMW got so many.
#450
Senior Moderator
#451
Senior Moderator
McLaren to build BMW supercar
BMW is developing a mid-engined supercar with a V8 engine – and is in talks with McLaren to put the car into production. CAR can reveal that the top secret flagship is scheduled for a Frankfurt show unveiling in exactly two years’ time, if talks with Britain’s supercar specialists are successfully concluded.
Munich has been toying with a high-octane yin to the i8 hybrid’s yang for a few years. But with 2015 bringing a new chairman, Harald Krüger, and a new boss at M Division, Frank van Meel, the idea of a BMW supercar once again has real momentum at the very top.
Another new boy, r&d chief Klaus Fröhlich, started exploratory talks with McLaren back in January. An alliance makes perfect sense. BMW – still digesting the telephone numbers investment it took to bring the i3 and i8 to market – is understandably keen to seek a top-notch supercar partner with whom to share development, rather than give M Division carte blanche on costs and strategy.
BMW/McLaren supercar: the lowdown
The supercar is scheduled to be in dealerships for 2019; a coupe is top priority, with a roadster a strong possibility. The models would be twinned with the carbonfibre monocoque of McLaren’s P16, the codename for the next-generation 650S. Our artist's impressions by Andrei Avarvarii depict how it could look.
The two companies have previous, of course (see panel overleaf). BMW supplied the McLaren F1’s magnificent V12, and the Germans would again provide a powerplant to call a McLaren-developed rolling chassis home. Sources say BMW has plumped for its new 4.0-litre V8 rather than with a highly tuned six. Output would be boosted by no fewer than four chargers; two exhaust-driven, two powered by electric motors. This state-of-the-art engine would be good for 750bhp, and more besides. Since the V8 is not a McLaren engine, there should be no brand image conflict – though Woking might baulk at BMW embarrassing it in the power stakes.
Differentiated exterior designs would separate the two supercars. With start of production pencilled in for late 2018, there’s just about time to accommodate BMW’s needs within the P16’s architecture. Done right, the matrix should be sufficiently modular to cater for brand-specific hang-on panels, door treatments and aero concepts. BMW’s wishlist also includes a bespoke instrument panel, as well as infotainment, connectivity and driver assistance features it would share with McLaren, if so desired. BMW is not looking for an overly ambitious volume: three digits will suffice each year.
How will it be split?
Insiders claim a plug-in hybrid is not on the agenda. Mid-term, anything is possible, but for 2018 expect start/stop, brake energy regeneration and at best a mild 15kW hybrid boost.
Suspension, steering and brakes will be shared across both brands: BMW should be able to dial in its own specific calibration, with a high-speed bias for that coveted autobahn touch. BMW’s still nameless two-seater would, like the 650S, be positioned in Ferrari, Lamborghini and Aston Martin territory. The pricing would have to be beyond £150,000. After all, the deal would also need to be a solid money-maker for the Brits, who are still digesting a substantial up-front investment.
There remains a big question: why doesn’t BMW handle its proposed halo car in-house? That was the original plan for M100, a supercar intended to crown the marque’s 2016 centenary. Even though it was already well underway, then-chairman Norbert Reithofer called it off at the eleventh hour. As the driving force behind the i3 and i8, Reithofer feared the M100 would hamper BMW’s eco-focused sub-brand, which cost billions to establish. But it’s now thought a big-bore V8 supercar could co-exist with the low carbon i8, with its zero-emissions electric capability and 1.5-litre three-cylinder turbo.
The mid-engined M100, which found a strong advocate in design overlord Adrian van Hooydonk, was a striking piece of kit: wide, low, aggressive, very much a BMW and with innovative aerodynamics. By selectively directing the airflow through a front end scoop to a set of horizontal bonnet louvres below the windscreen, and from there over the roof and through ducts around the drivetrain, the wind tunnel wizards achieved a magnetic ground effect while reducing drag to the equivalent of an extra 100bhp at speed. In combination with a lightweight body and an awesome 750bhp twin-turbo V8, M100 would have given the supercar superstars a run for their money, on road and on track. But Reithofer gave the thumbs down, and the full-scale M100 disappeared.
M Division didn’t take no for an answer. Instead, they began tweaking the concept, suggested additional electric front-wheel drive and replacing the V8 with a slimmer straight-six, but to no avail. In a final desperate attempt to make the chairman change his mind, the Garching skunkworks prepared the i8 CSi (CAR, December 2014), which was in essence a rebodied and heavily reworked i8. The car did keep its trademark carbon core, but it would have needed more power and redesigned suspension for better grip and handling. The development team dabbled with four- and six-cylinder engines, and upgraded the electric motors, targeting 750bhp. The additional batteries and the more complex propulsion system brought tricky weight, cost and packaging implications. Reithofer killed the compromised concept once and for all, for failing to improve on i8 or offer something compellingly different.
But the passion to do a pure supercar, with an external partner to share the burden, burns brightly within the new chiefs. And throughout the year, car spotters loitering at the Munich factory gates have noticed a growing number of visitors, coming and going in current McLaren coupes and spiders. McLaren’s official line is that its automotive line has a ceiling of 5000 units a year. ‘We can’t build cars for anyone else, with 4000 McLarens the target by 2017,’ said a spokesman. But with its low-volume expectations, that leaves some headroom that BMW could exploit. Assuming McLaren, which is already profitable at 1500 units, deems the project worthwhile.
At this stage the plan is not cast in stone: it may still come to nothing. But according to sources within BMW’s research and development complex, the odds are very much in favour of a thumbs up. After all, this tie-up has all the elements of a clever game plan – low risk, substantial customer benefit, great brand support and ultimately two fatter bottom lines. Like G29, the Z4/Supra sports car joint-venture signed with Toyota, the successor to M100 may pave the way for another partnership with McLaren. And BMW’s portfolio may end up with a new halo car, i8’s evil twin.
When BMW met McLaren the first time
Inside the seminal McLaren F1 beats a BMW heart that’s arguably the greatest naturally aspirated road car engine – ever. Yet it came about almost by accident, provoked by an encounter between Gordon Murray and BMW Motorsport chief engineer Paul Rosche at the 1990 Hockenheim Grand Prix. Murray knew Rosche from the old Brabham-BMW days, but it was the German who suggested BMW could build the F1’s motor. The result was the extraordinary S70/2 V12.
McLaren wanted 5.3-litres but got 6.1 – within the 600mm packaging constraints – and the 550bhp target became a 627bhp reality, enough to achieve 550bhp per tonne.
Innovations included scant 3mm cylinder separation, expensive Inconel manifolds, dual injection and binning the flywheel. The silencer doubled as the rear crash structure. Whatever the engine, the F1 was always going to be legendary, but BMW power helped deliver immense, record-setting performance. When BMW and McLaren get together, magic happens.
Munich has been toying with a high-octane yin to the i8 hybrid’s yang for a few years. But with 2015 bringing a new chairman, Harald Krüger, and a new boss at M Division, Frank van Meel, the idea of a BMW supercar once again has real momentum at the very top.
Another new boy, r&d chief Klaus Fröhlich, started exploratory talks with McLaren back in January. An alliance makes perfect sense. BMW – still digesting the telephone numbers investment it took to bring the i3 and i8 to market – is understandably keen to seek a top-notch supercar partner with whom to share development, rather than give M Division carte blanche on costs and strategy.
BMW/McLaren supercar: the lowdown
The supercar is scheduled to be in dealerships for 2019; a coupe is top priority, with a roadster a strong possibility. The models would be twinned with the carbonfibre monocoque of McLaren’s P16, the codename for the next-generation 650S. Our artist's impressions by Andrei Avarvarii depict how it could look.
The two companies have previous, of course (see panel overleaf). BMW supplied the McLaren F1’s magnificent V12, and the Germans would again provide a powerplant to call a McLaren-developed rolling chassis home. Sources say BMW has plumped for its new 4.0-litre V8 rather than with a highly tuned six. Output would be boosted by no fewer than four chargers; two exhaust-driven, two powered by electric motors. This state-of-the-art engine would be good for 750bhp, and more besides. Since the V8 is not a McLaren engine, there should be no brand image conflict – though Woking might baulk at BMW embarrassing it in the power stakes.
Differentiated exterior designs would separate the two supercars. With start of production pencilled in for late 2018, there’s just about time to accommodate BMW’s needs within the P16’s architecture. Done right, the matrix should be sufficiently modular to cater for brand-specific hang-on panels, door treatments and aero concepts. BMW’s wishlist also includes a bespoke instrument panel, as well as infotainment, connectivity and driver assistance features it would share with McLaren, if so desired. BMW is not looking for an overly ambitious volume: three digits will suffice each year.
How will it be split?
Insiders claim a plug-in hybrid is not on the agenda. Mid-term, anything is possible, but for 2018 expect start/stop, brake energy regeneration and at best a mild 15kW hybrid boost.
Suspension, steering and brakes will be shared across both brands: BMW should be able to dial in its own specific calibration, with a high-speed bias for that coveted autobahn touch. BMW’s still nameless two-seater would, like the 650S, be positioned in Ferrari, Lamborghini and Aston Martin territory. The pricing would have to be beyond £150,000. After all, the deal would also need to be a solid money-maker for the Brits, who are still digesting a substantial up-front investment.
There remains a big question: why doesn’t BMW handle its proposed halo car in-house? That was the original plan for M100, a supercar intended to crown the marque’s 2016 centenary. Even though it was already well underway, then-chairman Norbert Reithofer called it off at the eleventh hour. As the driving force behind the i3 and i8, Reithofer feared the M100 would hamper BMW’s eco-focused sub-brand, which cost billions to establish. But it’s now thought a big-bore V8 supercar could co-exist with the low carbon i8, with its zero-emissions electric capability and 1.5-litre three-cylinder turbo.
The mid-engined M100, which found a strong advocate in design overlord Adrian van Hooydonk, was a striking piece of kit: wide, low, aggressive, very much a BMW and with innovative aerodynamics. By selectively directing the airflow through a front end scoop to a set of horizontal bonnet louvres below the windscreen, and from there over the roof and through ducts around the drivetrain, the wind tunnel wizards achieved a magnetic ground effect while reducing drag to the equivalent of an extra 100bhp at speed. In combination with a lightweight body and an awesome 750bhp twin-turbo V8, M100 would have given the supercar superstars a run for their money, on road and on track. But Reithofer gave the thumbs down, and the full-scale M100 disappeared.
M Division didn’t take no for an answer. Instead, they began tweaking the concept, suggested additional electric front-wheel drive and replacing the V8 with a slimmer straight-six, but to no avail. In a final desperate attempt to make the chairman change his mind, the Garching skunkworks prepared the i8 CSi (CAR, December 2014), which was in essence a rebodied and heavily reworked i8. The car did keep its trademark carbon core, but it would have needed more power and redesigned suspension for better grip and handling. The development team dabbled with four- and six-cylinder engines, and upgraded the electric motors, targeting 750bhp. The additional batteries and the more complex propulsion system brought tricky weight, cost and packaging implications. Reithofer killed the compromised concept once and for all, for failing to improve on i8 or offer something compellingly different.
But the passion to do a pure supercar, with an external partner to share the burden, burns brightly within the new chiefs. And throughout the year, car spotters loitering at the Munich factory gates have noticed a growing number of visitors, coming and going in current McLaren coupes and spiders. McLaren’s official line is that its automotive line has a ceiling of 5000 units a year. ‘We can’t build cars for anyone else, with 4000 McLarens the target by 2017,’ said a spokesman. But with its low-volume expectations, that leaves some headroom that BMW could exploit. Assuming McLaren, which is already profitable at 1500 units, deems the project worthwhile.
At this stage the plan is not cast in stone: it may still come to nothing. But according to sources within BMW’s research and development complex, the odds are very much in favour of a thumbs up. After all, this tie-up has all the elements of a clever game plan – low risk, substantial customer benefit, great brand support and ultimately two fatter bottom lines. Like G29, the Z4/Supra sports car joint-venture signed with Toyota, the successor to M100 may pave the way for another partnership with McLaren. And BMW’s portfolio may end up with a new halo car, i8’s evil twin.
When BMW met McLaren the first time
Inside the seminal McLaren F1 beats a BMW heart that’s arguably the greatest naturally aspirated road car engine – ever. Yet it came about almost by accident, provoked by an encounter between Gordon Murray and BMW Motorsport chief engineer Paul Rosche at the 1990 Hockenheim Grand Prix. Murray knew Rosche from the old Brabham-BMW days, but it was the German who suggested BMW could build the F1’s motor. The result was the extraordinary S70/2 V12.
McLaren wanted 5.3-litres but got 6.1 – within the 600mm packaging constraints – and the 550bhp target became a 627bhp reality, enough to achieve 550bhp per tonne.
Innovations included scant 3mm cylinder separation, expensive Inconel manifolds, dual injection and binning the flywheel. The silencer doubled as the rear crash structure. Whatever the engine, the F1 was always going to be legendary, but BMW power helped deliver immense, record-setting performance. When BMW and McLaren get together, magic happens.
From here: Sensation! McLaren to build BMW supercar, CAR+ October 2015 by CAR Magazine
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ttribe (09-21-2015)
#452
Team Owner
I think this is more on the business side than the actual needs for McLaren to provide anything.
Double the battery from i3 to the front with a tuned M5 engine to the rear put them in an i8 with a different face.
Obviously it is more complicated than that but BMW has everything they need to build their own 800hp super car.
Double the battery from i3 to the front with a tuned M5 engine to the rear put them in an i8 with a different face.
Obviously it is more complicated than that but BMW has everything they need to build their own 800hp super car.
#454
Senior Moderator
AWD in M Cars...
From here: Future BMW M cars to get all-wheel-drive - crankandpiston.com
The future of BMW M cars could be all-wheel-drive (AWD), according to reports.
M division chief executive (CEO) Frank Van Meel told Autocar that the all-wheel-drive offering won’t effect the driving engagement experienced in M cars.
We’ve always loved the iconic rear-wheel-drive of M cars and thankfully the German manufacturer isn’t dismissing RWD altogether – it will still be offered as the default choice, alongside the optional AWD.
AWD could be offered on the likes of the M5, alongside an increase in power.
The CEO also told the publication that it’s getting more difficult in some markets to sell RWD M cars with 600bhp and over. Seems to us that BMW are being forced to offer AWD for the people that maybe can’t handle the RWD variant…
M division chief executive (CEO) Frank Van Meel told Autocar that the all-wheel-drive offering won’t effect the driving engagement experienced in M cars.
We’ve always loved the iconic rear-wheel-drive of M cars and thankfully the German manufacturer isn’t dismissing RWD altogether – it will still be offered as the default choice, alongside the optional AWD.
AWD could be offered on the likes of the M5, alongside an increase in power.
The CEO also told the publication that it’s getting more difficult in some markets to sell RWD M cars with 600bhp and over. Seems to us that BMW are being forced to offer AWD for the people that maybe can’t handle the RWD variant…
#455
Moderator
^^^^
#456
Azine Jabroni
FWD? AWD performance cars? Is this BMW or Honda?
#457
Team Owner
I'm waiting for SSFTSX to come in here and tell us that FWD is superior to RWD, and that BMW is starting to copy Honda's superiority, of being the superior super superiority.
#458
No matter what BMW do. Its unreliable crap. only cheap money supply from ECB give them subsidized leases advantage.
BMW does not even know how to design SUV. one has sky high resale and the other need what ever discounts can be given at time of the day.
BMW does not even know how to design SUV. one has sky high resale and the other need what ever discounts can be given at time of the day.
#460
Senior Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Western New York
Age: 64
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#461
Moderator
#462
Suzuka Master
For BMW this a move that was going to happen eventually. The dick measuring contest between manufacturers to see how many ponies you can fit into a luxury sedan is the cause. They need to put 600hp to the ground somehow without having a koenigsegg aero kit on it
#463
Senior Moderator
@ Joneill...
#464
Team Owner
#465
its a station wagon. not even a design for SUV. with crapiest rim designs.
current BMW SUVs are complete failure.
$30k depreciation at 14k miles.
2014 BMW X5 xDrive50i 4dr SUV AWD - 14k miles
2014 BMW X5 xDrive50i 4dr SUV AWD - 14k miles - $54202 (Certified Pre-Owned, Financing Available)
$25k depreciation in 6000 miles.
2016 BMW X5 5.0i M Sport
2016 BMW X5 5.0i M Sport - $65000 (danville / san ramon)
current BMW SUVs are complete failure.
$30k depreciation at 14k miles.
2014 BMW X5 xDrive50i 4dr SUV AWD - 14k miles
2014 BMW X5 xDrive50i 4dr SUV AWD - 14k miles - $54202 (Certified Pre-Owned, Financing Available)
$25k depreciation in 6000 miles.
2016 BMW X5 5.0i M Sport
2016 BMW X5 5.0i M Sport - $65000 (danville / san ramon)
#466
what does this picture tell you.
#467
finally reality catching up with them. its the crossover of BMW that are huge discount.
Buyers Say Crossovers and SUVs Are Hot, Sedans Are Not - TheStreet
BMW last week posted 2.5% lower operating earnings in the first quarter as the German automaker conceded it was forced to increase discounts in order to accelerate sales of large numbers of 3-Series and other sedans that were languishing in inventory. Accordingly, revenue and new pricing were lower for the period.
BMW last week posted 2.5% lower operating earnings in the first quarter as the German automaker conceded it was forced to increase discounts in order to accelerate sales of large numbers of 3-Series and other sedans that were languishing in inventory. Accordingly, revenue and new pricing were lower for the period.
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#471
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#472
Team Owner
Hey look, a dealer lot full of new inventory! That must mean BMW sales are lagging! Um, if that was the case, there wouldn't be any new vehicles in that lot, since they'd still be trying to sell off old inventory.
EVERY. SINGLE. DEALER. HAS. A. LOT. LIKE. THIS. YES. EVEN. HONDA+.
The fact that there are only new cars in that lot means that the dealership is moving inventory year after year. Another true fact about BMWs- at least where I am- There is ZERO haggling on price. I know people that have purchased 2 BMWs from the same dealer in the past, one being an M3, and they still wouldn't budge a dime on the 3rd car they wanted to get. BMW controls the pricing. If they decide to put incentives on, that's their prerogative. But you aren't negotiating anything.
EVERY. SINGLE. DEALER. HAS. A. LOT. LIKE. THIS. YES. EVEN. HONDA+.
The fact that there are only new cars in that lot means that the dealership is moving inventory year after year. Another true fact about BMWs- at least where I am- There is ZERO haggling on price. I know people that have purchased 2 BMWs from the same dealer in the past, one being an M3, and they still wouldn't budge a dime on the 3rd car they wanted to get. BMW controls the pricing. If they decide to put incentives on, that's their prerogative. But you aren't negotiating anything.
#473
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Join Date: Jan 2001
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^^^ like I said, "a modicum of intelligence" which is obviously lost on SSF
#474
Team Owner
its a station wagon. not even a design for SUV. with crapiest rim designs.
current BMW SUVs are complete failure.
$30k depreciation at 14k miles.
2014 BMW X5 xDrive50i 4dr SUV AWD - 14k miles
2014 BMW X5 xDrive50i 4dr SUV AWD - 14k miles - $54202 (Certified Pre-Owned, Financing Available)
$25k depreciation in 6000 miles.
2016 BMW X5 5.0i M Sport
2016 BMW X5 5.0i M Sport - $65000 (danville / san ramon)
current BMW SUVs are complete failure.
$30k depreciation at 14k miles.
2014 BMW X5 xDrive50i 4dr SUV AWD - 14k miles
2014 BMW X5 xDrive50i 4dr SUV AWD - 14k miles - $54202 (Certified Pre-Owned, Financing Available)
$25k depreciation in 6000 miles.
2016 BMW X5 5.0i M Sport
2016 BMW X5 5.0i M Sport - $65000 (danville / san ramon)
Then by your definition, Camry should be right up there with the best cars in the world.
#475
This picture tells me nothing as it does any person with a modicum of intelligence. Second, you are just one person who doesn't own a BMW but instead a 7 year old Acura telling someone who has driven them thousands of miles my opinion is "statistically insignificant." I'd like to see the stats that support your position but here's JD Power's assessment of BMW vs. Acura. In every category except one, Acura is behind BMW.
Don't ever thing about comparing BMW quality with Acura. starting with thos brake dust impacted rims, bend suspensions on pot holes. fading color.
#476
Moderator
^^^
#477
Camry low maintaince cost makes up for it. here we are discussing SUV. the discretionary spending. ever thought how Toyota sells 10k 4Runner a month with 5speed automatic and non-DI engine. technology wise it is 20 year old tech. and put it has the highest resale value.
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oonowindoo (05-10-2016)
#479
Team Owner
Let's put 4 runner's price tag to start at $60k with option to $90k and see how many it sells and how that will affect its resale value.
#480
Team Owner
Pretty sure BMW doesn't want to sell 120k units/year when it comes to the X5. See, this dummy SSFTSX has forgot that BMW caters to a higher class of people in North America, and they want to stay that way. They have no desire to so to plebes like SSFTSX. In fact, they'd likely be happier if people like him stayed away from their cars.
And every issue he listed with BMW, you can find similar encounters with Honda.
And every issue he listed with BMW, you can find similar encounters with Honda.