Acura: TSX News
#1601
Originally Posted by iforyou
See, that's where the problem lies, if they were able to make the 2nd gen engine with DI to be even more efficient and powerful, they would have done it. Apparently, that's not the case. Who knows the exact reasons for that, may be Honda engineers were not good enough? May be the DI technology was not yet fully compatible with what Honda already had? May be the gain with DI does not justify the cost? There are so many possible reasons, I'm sure they had thought about that when they were doing their pugh chart.
#1602
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,524
Likes: 848
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Yea, I agree about what you said about the TL.
I'm not sure if those are excuses or not. Honda has already filed a patent for its A-VTEC design, which was back in 2005. Check out Shawn Church's analysis of the system for more info.
If anything, I'd say Honda is slow in developing technologies. But from what I've seen so far, their technologies have been well received and highly praised, namely VTEC, SH-AWD, i-VTEC, i-ctdi, CVCC, etc. I guess that's the key to their solid reliability? They have already made mistakes before, such as the 5AT in the TL which I think you know about. I doubt that they would want to rush again and come up with an unreliable design.
I'm not sure if those are excuses or not. Honda has already filed a patent for its A-VTEC design, which was back in 2005. Check out Shawn Church's analysis of the system for more info.
If anything, I'd say Honda is slow in developing technologies. But from what I've seen so far, their technologies have been well received and highly praised, namely VTEC, SH-AWD, i-VTEC, i-ctdi, CVCC, etc. I guess that's the key to their solid reliability? They have already made mistakes before, such as the 5AT in the TL which I think you know about. I doubt that they would want to rush again and come up with an unreliable design.
#1603
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
I'm sure they are kinda pissed at themselves that they have to offer both a ~ 280hp and a ~ 300hp TL and would rather have just 1 model...but offering just a 280hp FWD model isn't performance competitive with the current competition, and offering a 300hp TL w/ AWD isn't value competitive with the current competition. Due to the piss-poor foresight, they had to go with both.
#1604
Jeff from VTEC has revised his initial views on the TSX. Here's what he writes:
I've had the '09 TSX for about a week now and I've now put more than 800 miles on it. In that amount of wheel time, I've managed to forget about comparing this to the previous generation TSX and instead shift my focus on what the 2009 TSX is all about.
First off, I think the new motor is certainly a win. The tractability is amazing and as long as you have about 3000 rpms on the tach, the car pulls pretty nicely (it gets even better at 4000 rpms). This means that you're not suffering a huge penalty by short shifting the car, nor do you ever find yourself in that vast black hole of torque on the 1-2 upshift that existed on the previous generation TSX. While the really curvy roads required constant shifting between 2nd and 3rd, even in my modified TSX, I found that this car pulled out of most turns on the same roads with quite a bit of zest by staying in 3rd gear. Only on the very tightest hairpins did I even think about kicking it down into 2nd. On top of all that, this car has delivered what I consider to be amazing fuel economy (for a 3400+ lb 4-cylinder). So far my net average over the entire 800 miles is over 26mpg, and that includes the dyno sessions and several hours at the drag strip. 30mpg on the freeway is quite easy, and 30+ mpg is even easier on secondary roads with posted speeds of 45-55mph. I imagine that with the taller gearing, 5AT owners may be reporting lower-mid 30's on the freeway.
I took the car to the drag strip yesterday, and invited LudegarH22A7 along so he could help shoot some video and photos. We went to the strip in Montgomery, AL, which is about 170 miles from home. The TSX felt really good on the freeway, the seats are superbly comfortable and the amazing ELS audio system helped the miles fly by. We tested the iPod interface with Jay's (Ludegar) iPhone and his 4th gen 60GB iPod video, and both interfaced successfully. Interestingly, on the 60GB iPod video, once the connection was established, his screen displayed an Acura logo - I meant to get a photo of it, but unfortunately I forgot. The iPhone displayed some error message about how it was connected to an incompatible peripheral, but we were able to play music from it anyhow. When not listening to the music on either of his iPods, we played songs off of an 8GB SDHC card, attached via a Sandisk Micromate USB SD reader.
As I mentioned earlier, with the miles, the steering feel has improved in the car somewhat, and I've also grown more accustomed to it, so until I drive something with more feel, it's not aggravating me anymore. The car doesn't meander as much within its lane now, which is a also huge plus. I spent the day playing around with the car on some of my favorite local mountain roads and found a new level of respect for the car. While I still think it's not quite as responsive as the previous TSX, it is still more than willing to get down and boogie. I want to say the car actually is a now a bit more neutral than the past TSX, but I'd have to get back behind the wheel of an older one to certify that statement. When playing around with it, I found that I could effect very a mild degree of oversteer when dialing in the correct amounts of steering and throttle inputs. I was able to sense the additional weight, but I may not have noticed it so much if the tires didn't start getting greasy. The brakes are supposed to be mostly carryover, with the exception of slightly larger rear rotors and the addition of brake assist, but there seems to be more to it, because considering the additional vehicle weight, the additional braking power and fade resistance seem to indicate that there's more to it than that. The new steering wheel has a nice fat rim and it may just be an illusion, but it seems smaller in diameter than the previous one, which gives it a nice and sporty feel.
If you're wondering how it did at the track, it did okay - 0-60 in 7.6 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 15.8@88.5 (it was so consistent I did 3 consecutive 15.8s). The car could definitely do a bit better than that - there were significant grip issues - I was launching at part throttle, just off idle, and then ramping into it - otherwise I would get a lot of wheelspin and/or axle hop. And driving it today, I think the car actually feels stronger now - I performed a 5-60mph run and the performance computer registered 7.2 seconds. I need to analyze the numbers from that run and compare it to one of the 15.8 runs to see how they line up. While it may not be a burner at the strip, on the street this car feels like it has more "everyday" speed to offer than the '08 TSX.
Overall, I think if you were considering taking a look at the '09 TSX, but were put off by the initial drive reports (including the one we published last month), I think the TSX deserves a hard second look. I'm glad I've had the opportunity to drive it again, as the time with it has certainly improved its position in my book. The level of luxury for the money is quite impressive, and it's a better all-around performer than I initially gave it credit for. Add the impressive fuel economy on top of that, and the car has a lot of things going for it.
Link
I've had the '09 TSX for about a week now and I've now put more than 800 miles on it. In that amount of wheel time, I've managed to forget about comparing this to the previous generation TSX and instead shift my focus on what the 2009 TSX is all about.
First off, I think the new motor is certainly a win. The tractability is amazing and as long as you have about 3000 rpms on the tach, the car pulls pretty nicely (it gets even better at 4000 rpms). This means that you're not suffering a huge penalty by short shifting the car, nor do you ever find yourself in that vast black hole of torque on the 1-2 upshift that existed on the previous generation TSX. While the really curvy roads required constant shifting between 2nd and 3rd, even in my modified TSX, I found that this car pulled out of most turns on the same roads with quite a bit of zest by staying in 3rd gear. Only on the very tightest hairpins did I even think about kicking it down into 2nd. On top of all that, this car has delivered what I consider to be amazing fuel economy (for a 3400+ lb 4-cylinder). So far my net average over the entire 800 miles is over 26mpg, and that includes the dyno sessions and several hours at the drag strip. 30mpg on the freeway is quite easy, and 30+ mpg is even easier on secondary roads with posted speeds of 45-55mph. I imagine that with the taller gearing, 5AT owners may be reporting lower-mid 30's on the freeway.
I took the car to the drag strip yesterday, and invited LudegarH22A7 along so he could help shoot some video and photos. We went to the strip in Montgomery, AL, which is about 170 miles from home. The TSX felt really good on the freeway, the seats are superbly comfortable and the amazing ELS audio system helped the miles fly by. We tested the iPod interface with Jay's (Ludegar) iPhone and his 4th gen 60GB iPod video, and both interfaced successfully. Interestingly, on the 60GB iPod video, once the connection was established, his screen displayed an Acura logo - I meant to get a photo of it, but unfortunately I forgot. The iPhone displayed some error message about how it was connected to an incompatible peripheral, but we were able to play music from it anyhow. When not listening to the music on either of his iPods, we played songs off of an 8GB SDHC card, attached via a Sandisk Micromate USB SD reader.
As I mentioned earlier, with the miles, the steering feel has improved in the car somewhat, and I've also grown more accustomed to it, so until I drive something with more feel, it's not aggravating me anymore. The car doesn't meander as much within its lane now, which is a also huge plus. I spent the day playing around with the car on some of my favorite local mountain roads and found a new level of respect for the car. While I still think it's not quite as responsive as the previous TSX, it is still more than willing to get down and boogie. I want to say the car actually is a now a bit more neutral than the past TSX, but I'd have to get back behind the wheel of an older one to certify that statement. When playing around with it, I found that I could effect very a mild degree of oversteer when dialing in the correct amounts of steering and throttle inputs. I was able to sense the additional weight, but I may not have noticed it so much if the tires didn't start getting greasy. The brakes are supposed to be mostly carryover, with the exception of slightly larger rear rotors and the addition of brake assist, but there seems to be more to it, because considering the additional vehicle weight, the additional braking power and fade resistance seem to indicate that there's more to it than that. The new steering wheel has a nice fat rim and it may just be an illusion, but it seems smaller in diameter than the previous one, which gives it a nice and sporty feel.
If you're wondering how it did at the track, it did okay - 0-60 in 7.6 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 15.8@88.5 (it was so consistent I did 3 consecutive 15.8s). The car could definitely do a bit better than that - there were significant grip issues - I was launching at part throttle, just off idle, and then ramping into it - otherwise I would get a lot of wheelspin and/or axle hop. And driving it today, I think the car actually feels stronger now - I performed a 5-60mph run and the performance computer registered 7.2 seconds. I need to analyze the numbers from that run and compare it to one of the 15.8 runs to see how they line up. While it may not be a burner at the strip, on the street this car feels like it has more "everyday" speed to offer than the '08 TSX.
Overall, I think if you were considering taking a look at the '09 TSX, but were put off by the initial drive reports (including the one we published last month), I think the TSX deserves a hard second look. I'm glad I've had the opportunity to drive it again, as the time with it has certainly improved its position in my book. The level of luxury for the money is quite impressive, and it's a better all-around performer than I initially gave it credit for. Add the impressive fuel economy on top of that, and the car has a lot of things going for it.
Link
#1608
Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
J On top of all that, this car has delivered what I consider to be amazing fuel economy (for a 3400+ lb 4-cylinder). So far my net average over the entire 800 miles is over 26mpg, and that includes the dyno sessions and several hours at the drag strip. 30mpg on the freeway is quite easy, and 30+ mpg is even easier on secondary roads with posted speeds of 45-55mph. I imagine that with the taller gearing, 5AT owners may be reporting lower-mid 30's on the freeway.
Link
Link
#1609
Originally Posted by biker
Sounds like he had the 6MT. As I mentioned in other threads the paper power numbers don't tell the whole story and it sure seems like Honda, maybe even more than usual, is going for increased mileage.
#1610
My first-hand review
Today I happened to be at Camco Acura and I saw that they had a couple of the new TSX's. I sat inside one and went for a quick test drive. I was told that they just got them last night and that I was the second customer to test drive one. I tried to examine as much as I could and compare it to my 2004 TSX.
First impressions:
When I saw the car in photos I thought "meh, it looks almost the same as mine". In person, the changes are more apparent and I liked it a lot more. The front looks very sporty, kind of like the old TSX with the body kit. I have to say the grille is starting to grow on me. I think I might actually like it.
The car looks wider, not necessairly bigger, mainly just wider. The front section looks more imposing than on the outgoing TSX, but overall the car still seems well-proportions. There's one exception to that, and it's the wheels. They look a bit too small and much too recessed into the wheel wells, with too much sidewall, and the tires look too round. This car just BEGS for nice 18" wheels. The effect is akin to the BMW 325i with its wheels looking too small while the ones that come with a 335i look just right. 18" wheels on a TSX would look just right, they would match the rest of the car. And of course the rims look pretty boring, but that's standard Acura. The rest of the car looks good, yes, even the front.
Interior:
I really liked the new interior. I like Acura interiors in general and this one is similar to the MDX, RL, etc. The materials are nice overall, nothing too fancy, similar to the RDX I would say. The fake aluminum trim is even more fake than in the old TSX, It's just this daker shiny plastic. The same material is used for the silver rims around the guages, and it looks a bit cheap there. Generally speaking there are more design features, more grips, more lines and more material changes than in the old TSX interior.
The best part of the interior by far is the steering wheel. It feels small, thick and sporty. Going back to my old TSX steering wheel I felt like I was going to drive a bus.
The models they didn't have the navi, and the substitute for that is a too small LCD screen in the large nav-less cavity. It looks stupid. Acura should have really used a larger screen because the TSX's without navi simply look like someone ripped out a screen and put a tiny cheap screen in its place. The Lexus IS doesn't have that problem, Acura clearly pinched pennies there.
The seats looked identical to the old TSX seats at first, then I noticed that they're wider at the shoulders, with more bolstering, and the headrests are different. The rear seats looked similar to the old ones as well, and I swear that it seemed a little more difficult to get out of the back seat.
Space inside looked pretty similar to the old TSX, but the trunk seemed slightly smaller in the deep end. The trunk opening to the rear seats is wider at the bottom, current TSX owners know that the tapered opening is a PITB.
The guages look a lot more sophisticated than in the old TSX. I saw them illuminated (we drove into a garage), they look very cool with the suble lighting around it. Unlike other cars the blue ring lighting is not stak, it's very subtle and well done. The cheapness of the silver rings disappears at night.
There's an LCD screen in the tach that you can call-up using buttons on the steering wheel. You can see tire pressure, trip distance, fuel consumption.
The car comes with XM radio, bluetooth for streaming music - I'm thinking you could use one of those new Samsung P2 players that has bluetooth, and an iPod connector. SD slot too.
The drive:
The car feels bigger looking out towards the front, because the hood has bulges on the sides that make it look much more expansive than the old TSX. It doesn't feel much bigger driving it though. The turn radius felt smaller when I did a U-turn. Acceleration seems pretty slow, I think it felt slower than my 2004. I drove an automatic and it was fun to shift the gears with paddles, it's similar to the CSX that way. No lightning fast shifts, just the same as in my old TSX.
I didn't go anywhere where I could test the handling, from what I tried it felt similar to my car.
The key FOB is the flip-out style, I think the later model TSX had those? The keys come with seat and mirror memory, so when you unlock the car it sets your seat position.
Overall:
After sitting in it, it feels like more of a change than I expected. My TSX's interior looks pretty boring and featureless in comparison. In the end though, the interior ergonomics is all I would really be upgrading by buying this one... I do like the new styling, it's nice, but I think I would only get one if they come up with a better powertrain. And since there's little chance of it getting AWD, I think it's going to be difficult to convince current TSX owsers that this is a car to step up to.
On the other hand, this car is a nice package, and as long as you're not looking for acceleration it's worth looking at. I don't think Acura will have trouble selling them.
Now I just want to see one with nice 18" wheels...
First impressions:
When I saw the car in photos I thought "meh, it looks almost the same as mine". In person, the changes are more apparent and I liked it a lot more. The front looks very sporty, kind of like the old TSX with the body kit. I have to say the grille is starting to grow on me. I think I might actually like it.
The car looks wider, not necessairly bigger, mainly just wider. The front section looks more imposing than on the outgoing TSX, but overall the car still seems well-proportions. There's one exception to that, and it's the wheels. They look a bit too small and much too recessed into the wheel wells, with too much sidewall, and the tires look too round. This car just BEGS for nice 18" wheels. The effect is akin to the BMW 325i with its wheels looking too small while the ones that come with a 335i look just right. 18" wheels on a TSX would look just right, they would match the rest of the car. And of course the rims look pretty boring, but that's standard Acura. The rest of the car looks good, yes, even the front.
Interior:
I really liked the new interior. I like Acura interiors in general and this one is similar to the MDX, RL, etc. The materials are nice overall, nothing too fancy, similar to the RDX I would say. The fake aluminum trim is even more fake than in the old TSX, It's just this daker shiny plastic. The same material is used for the silver rims around the guages, and it looks a bit cheap there. Generally speaking there are more design features, more grips, more lines and more material changes than in the old TSX interior.
The best part of the interior by far is the steering wheel. It feels small, thick and sporty. Going back to my old TSX steering wheel I felt like I was going to drive a bus.
The models they didn't have the navi, and the substitute for that is a too small LCD screen in the large nav-less cavity. It looks stupid. Acura should have really used a larger screen because the TSX's without navi simply look like someone ripped out a screen and put a tiny cheap screen in its place. The Lexus IS doesn't have that problem, Acura clearly pinched pennies there.
The seats looked identical to the old TSX seats at first, then I noticed that they're wider at the shoulders, with more bolstering, and the headrests are different. The rear seats looked similar to the old ones as well, and I swear that it seemed a little more difficult to get out of the back seat.
Space inside looked pretty similar to the old TSX, but the trunk seemed slightly smaller in the deep end. The trunk opening to the rear seats is wider at the bottom, current TSX owners know that the tapered opening is a PITB.
The guages look a lot more sophisticated than in the old TSX. I saw them illuminated (we drove into a garage), they look very cool with the suble lighting around it. Unlike other cars the blue ring lighting is not stak, it's very subtle and well done. The cheapness of the silver rings disappears at night.
There's an LCD screen in the tach that you can call-up using buttons on the steering wheel. You can see tire pressure, trip distance, fuel consumption.
The car comes with XM radio, bluetooth for streaming music - I'm thinking you could use one of those new Samsung P2 players that has bluetooth, and an iPod connector. SD slot too.
The drive:
The car feels bigger looking out towards the front, because the hood has bulges on the sides that make it look much more expansive than the old TSX. It doesn't feel much bigger driving it though. The turn radius felt smaller when I did a U-turn. Acceleration seems pretty slow, I think it felt slower than my 2004. I drove an automatic and it was fun to shift the gears with paddles, it's similar to the CSX that way. No lightning fast shifts, just the same as in my old TSX.
I didn't go anywhere where I could test the handling, from what I tried it felt similar to my car.
The key FOB is the flip-out style, I think the later model TSX had those? The keys come with seat and mirror memory, so when you unlock the car it sets your seat position.
Overall:
After sitting in it, it feels like more of a change than I expected. My TSX's interior looks pretty boring and featureless in comparison. In the end though, the interior ergonomics is all I would really be upgrading by buying this one... I do like the new styling, it's nice, but I think I would only get one if they come up with a better powertrain. And since there's little chance of it getting AWD, I think it's going to be difficult to convince current TSX owsers that this is a car to step up to.
On the other hand, this car is a nice package, and as long as you're not looking for acceleration it's worth looking at. I don't think Acura will have trouble selling them.
Now I just want to see one with nice 18" wheels...
#1612
On the Acura site when I was in the build and price section I noticed that the optional/A-Spec wheels were 18 inch. When I was at the dealership getting my 06 serviced today I also test drove one. I also like it better in person. I noticed that the fender flares on the 09's are almost identical to the ones on the MDX.
#1613
i did build one, but when you select the TSX on the acura page they still show the 1st gen TSX. then, they show you the 09 TSX when you build and price it. 32K isn't a bad price, i guess this will be shopped with the US Accord V6 sedan again becuase a loaded Accord sedan V6 is almost 31K. Basically it will come down to 2 things, you want a Euro Accord or US Accord and the Acura has the better warranty and perks than owning a Honda.
#1616
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
I went ahead and gave him real reps for the review.
finally saw the TSX commercial. i liked it. i'm glad it wasn't just a commercial of a guy driving a car. it's clear what demographic they're appealing to.
once again, i think this car will continue to sell well. whether or not the enthusiasts like it, i wonder if acura even cares.
the car's growing on me a lot.
#1617
When they come out with a Type-S, this car will be a real condender for people who don't care about RWD (i.e. the vast majority). Once again, not Lexus quality, not BMW performance, but more functional and lower priced than either of these.
The real contender for me will be the A4, with its higher rear-bias and great styling. The only reasons for me not to get the A4 would be if it's more expensive, which is very likely, or if the reliability fears come up again. I think the TSX will undercut the A4 in price which will mean it once again competes on price and overall usefulness against every competitor, just as the old TSX did.
The real contender for me will be the A4, with its higher rear-bias and great styling. The only reasons for me not to get the A4 would be if it's more expensive, which is very likely, or if the reliability fears come up again. I think the TSX will undercut the A4 in price which will mean it once again competes on price and overall usefulness against every competitor, just as the old TSX did.
#1618
Originally Posted by Belzebutt
The real contender for me will be the A4, with its higher rear-bias and great styling. The only reasons for me not to get the A4 would be if it's more expensive, which is very likely, or if the reliability fears come up again. I think the TSX will undercut the A4 in price which will mean it once again competes on price and overall usefulness against every competitor, just as the old TSX did.
#1619
Full Test: 2009 Acura TSX
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
Has Fun Become a Burden?
By Erin Riches, Senior Editor Email
Date posted: 05-15-2008
Simple joys like sharp throttle response and good on-center steering feel get lost in your basic awful big-city commute. So out of necessity, you look for other diversions, and you find them in the 2009 Acura TSX.
If you're stuck in traffic, hook up your iPod and your playlists come right up on the navigation screen. As Coldplay (or Black Star, as if we have any inkling of your taste) circulates through all 10 Panasonic speakers, you check the map screen and notice an accident warning a mile ahead. Instead of driving right into the mess like everyone else, you avoid being in the wrong lane, plus you ask the Acura to "Call Jennifer," so she doesn't get mad when you're late picking her up. You suggest she wear a scarf (perhaps the sparkly black one), because the Acura TSX is forecasting 50 degrees and fog.
Then, at Jen's urging, you say to the TSX, "Find nearest Zagat-rated restaurant."
Even if you don't have your own Jennifer, it feels good to be the centered, relaxed guy who has his life all figured out.
But when traffic finally clears, you might want to go back to being the disorganized guy who just likes to drive, the guy who scares the crap out of Jen around every corner. But it turns out the 2009 Acura TSX really isn't cool with that.
Let's See Your Hand
To its credit, the redesigned 2009 Acura TSX doesn't try to hide its aversion to fast driving. Since this is an Acura, you believe this near-luxury sedan wants to be driven. But when you take hold of the steering wheel, the car just isn't saying much to you. You add some steering input hoping to wake it, but still nothing.
What you're feeling (or rather, not feeling) is the new electric-motor-driven power steering of the 2009 Acura TSX. Acura says this setup is an evolution of the EPS of the semi-exotic Acura NSX, but the execution seems so different on the TSX that it must be a distant genetic link at best.
The focus here is making the steering wheel easy to turn, not turning the wheels. So the TSX is effortless to maneuver at low speeds while isolating you from nasty road impacts, plus adding extra mpg to the EPA rating. So even though the new TSX has a quicker 13.4:1 steering ratio than before (14.8:1), you don't really notice.
Worse, the new setup has an unsettling lack of predictability. It doesn't deliver a sense of secure stability when the TSX is pointed straight ahead on the freeway and it also takes too long for the power assist to drop away as your speed increases.
Happiness Comes to Those Who Rev
You also notice a strange calm from the 2009 TSX's engine bay. Acura tells us some owners of the first-generation TSX found the TSX's 2.4-liter inline-4 engine "too revvy," so the company called in the NVH task force. Now the mechanical sounds are pretty faint below 4,000 rpm, as if someone has tried to smother the engine with a down comforter.
Venture past 4,000 rpm, though, and the Acura TSX's engine acts like its old self. You feel and hear the i-VTEC variable valve timing switch to the higher-lift cams at 5,000 rpm. Peak power doesn't hit until 7 grand, so there's plenty of incentive to use all the revs right to the 7,100-rpm redline.
Of course we're only talking about 201 horsepower (4 hp fewer than the 2008 TSX). More relevant is the bump in midrange torque for 2009 — 172 pound-feet at 4,400 rpm versus 164 lb-ft at 4,500 in '08.
Though Acura tells us that fewer than 10 percent of TSX buyers will select the six-speed manual transmission over the five-speed automatic, we can report that the pleasure of controlling the four-cylinder engine with a manual transmission is by far the best part of driving the 2009 Acura TSX. Someone at Acura must think so, too, because the shift lever is topped with the metallic knob of the Honda Civic Si and even the transmission's ratios have been shuffled with shorter gears in 2nd and 3rd to deliver quicker acceleration.
The TSX's shift action is characteristically light in the Honda style, and it helps you appreciate the precision of the way it works, plus the way the clutch engages at exactly the right point in the pedal stroke. Heel-and-toe downshifts are rewarding, and the engine makes good sounds when you get it right. You can't pretend it's not fun, and before long your passenger wants to drive, too.
Still Too Slow?
If you're not into these sensory delights, though, chances are good you'll decide the TSX isn't quick enough. Its 7.7-second 0-60-mph time (7.2 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and 15.6-second quarter-mile at 89.8 mph are on par with the 2.0T-equipped Audi A4 and Volkswagen Passat, but the normally aspirated 2.4-liter's peaky power band isn't as friendly as the 2.0-liter turbo's flat torque curve.
The 2009 Acura TSX is also an easy mark for almost any family sedan with a V6, especially when equipped with the five-speed automatic. We tested a TSX with the five-speed and its 0-to-60-mph time fell to 8.6 seconds (8.3 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip). That's slower than all four of the family sedans in our last comparison test which included the Chevrolet Malibu, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima and Toyota Camry.
The 240-hp turbocharged 2.3-liter inline-4 in the Acura RDX seems like the obvious solution here. Even the 4,000-pound RDX beats the TSX through the quarter-mile (15.2 seconds at 90.4 seconds), so you can imagine the results if the engine had 600 fewer pounds of car to motivate. But the turbocharged engine's intercooler would have to go up front and that would lengthen the front overhang, and Acura's designers aren't up for a car with a big nose.
A more likely remedy will be Honda's 2.2-liter i-DTEC four-cylinder turbodiesel, already the favorite power plant among European buyers who know this car as their Accord. A turbodiesel engine is indeed coming soon for the TSX, although it won't be the Euro engine.
The Opposite of Flattery
If you end up on a back road with a 2009 Acura TSX, it probably won't be something you planned. Yes, the chassis has some life to it, but it's in such a conservative state of tune that the TSX is prevented from showing the kind of athleticism that enthusiast drivers like.
At a pace that sane people might drive, the '09 TSX has the compliant, springy ride that's characteristic of Honda, and the car feels light and willing. But as soon as you start to attack the corners, the TSX raises the white flag. There's considerable body roll and the P225/50R17 Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 all-season tires run out of grip quickly. And the lack of steering feedback makes you feel like you're driving the 2009 TSX half-blind.
This has real consequences in the slalom, where the Acura averages only 64.1 mph, one of the slowest speeds we've recorded among current-day, premium-brand cars. It's 1.5 mph slower than a 3,600-pound Honda Accord EX-L V6. Even a Mitsubishi Lancer with a weakling 2.0-liter engine and a power-sapping continuously variable transmission beats the TSX through the cones with a 65.4-mph speed. The TSX performs similarly on the skid pad, and its 0.79g is what we'd expect from a larger, heavier family sedan.
It's like the TSX hasn't had a sure hand to guide its development at the Honda proving grounds.
Where There's Smoke
We get it that Acura likes to keep unsprung weight to a minimum and tries not to burden its cars with oversize brake rotors and calipers. But this particular set of brakes for the 2009 Acura TSX isn't fully up to the task of stopping a 3,400-pound car (though some blame must go to the tires as well).
On a good day in normal traffic, there's no problem, and the pedal feel is solid and linear. But when we apply full braking power at our instrumented testing facility, it gets ugly.
The TSX won't stop any shorter from 60 mph than 127 feet, which is 14 feet farther than an all-wheel-drive Lexus IS 250 that weighs 100 pounds more (and costs the same). The TSX's brakes fade dramatically after just one stop, and there's smoke coming off the rotors by the third run. The car isn't happy. We're not happy.
Defining the Enthusiast
After these disappointments, we want to curl up into a ball in the 2009 Acura TSX's extraordinarily comfortable seats and call it a day.
And this is exactly what many TSX owners will do. As a home-to-office car, the new TSX is quite satisfying. You simply won't find another sedan that packs so many high-tech interior features for the $32,775 it costs to get into a 2009 Acura TSX with the Technology Package (your meal ticket to the navigation and Panasonic ELS sound systems).
What makes the Acura even more appealing is its ability to integrate all this technology into a control interface that feels slick and contemporary to Gizmodo geeks without disorienting late adopters still fumbling with their first Blackberry.
Yet if driving is still really about the driving for you, then the 2009 Acura TSX will seem like little more than an expensive accessory for your iPhone. Unless you can get by on the occasional rev-matched downshift, the second-gen TSX really isn't about the drive.
By Erin Riches, Senior Editor Email
Date posted: 05-15-2008
Simple joys like sharp throttle response and good on-center steering feel get lost in your basic awful big-city commute. So out of necessity, you look for other diversions, and you find them in the 2009 Acura TSX.
If you're stuck in traffic, hook up your iPod and your playlists come right up on the navigation screen. As Coldplay (or Black Star, as if we have any inkling of your taste) circulates through all 10 Panasonic speakers, you check the map screen and notice an accident warning a mile ahead. Instead of driving right into the mess like everyone else, you avoid being in the wrong lane, plus you ask the Acura to "Call Jennifer," so she doesn't get mad when you're late picking her up. You suggest she wear a scarf (perhaps the sparkly black one), because the Acura TSX is forecasting 50 degrees and fog.
Then, at Jen's urging, you say to the TSX, "Find nearest Zagat-rated restaurant."
Even if you don't have your own Jennifer, it feels good to be the centered, relaxed guy who has his life all figured out.
But when traffic finally clears, you might want to go back to being the disorganized guy who just likes to drive, the guy who scares the crap out of Jen around every corner. But it turns out the 2009 Acura TSX really isn't cool with that.
Let's See Your Hand
To its credit, the redesigned 2009 Acura TSX doesn't try to hide its aversion to fast driving. Since this is an Acura, you believe this near-luxury sedan wants to be driven. But when you take hold of the steering wheel, the car just isn't saying much to you. You add some steering input hoping to wake it, but still nothing.
What you're feeling (or rather, not feeling) is the new electric-motor-driven power steering of the 2009 Acura TSX. Acura says this setup is an evolution of the EPS of the semi-exotic Acura NSX, but the execution seems so different on the TSX that it must be a distant genetic link at best.
The focus here is making the steering wheel easy to turn, not turning the wheels. So the TSX is effortless to maneuver at low speeds while isolating you from nasty road impacts, plus adding extra mpg to the EPA rating. So even though the new TSX has a quicker 13.4:1 steering ratio than before (14.8:1), you don't really notice.
Worse, the new setup has an unsettling lack of predictability. It doesn't deliver a sense of secure stability when the TSX is pointed straight ahead on the freeway and it also takes too long for the power assist to drop away as your speed increases.
Happiness Comes to Those Who Rev
You also notice a strange calm from the 2009 TSX's engine bay. Acura tells us some owners of the first-generation TSX found the TSX's 2.4-liter inline-4 engine "too revvy," so the company called in the NVH task force. Now the mechanical sounds are pretty faint below 4,000 rpm, as if someone has tried to smother the engine with a down comforter.
Venture past 4,000 rpm, though, and the Acura TSX's engine acts like its old self. You feel and hear the i-VTEC variable valve timing switch to the higher-lift cams at 5,000 rpm. Peak power doesn't hit until 7 grand, so there's plenty of incentive to use all the revs right to the 7,100-rpm redline.
Of course we're only talking about 201 horsepower (4 hp fewer than the 2008 TSX). More relevant is the bump in midrange torque for 2009 — 172 pound-feet at 4,400 rpm versus 164 lb-ft at 4,500 in '08.
Though Acura tells us that fewer than 10 percent of TSX buyers will select the six-speed manual transmission over the five-speed automatic, we can report that the pleasure of controlling the four-cylinder engine with a manual transmission is by far the best part of driving the 2009 Acura TSX. Someone at Acura must think so, too, because the shift lever is topped with the metallic knob of the Honda Civic Si and even the transmission's ratios have been shuffled with shorter gears in 2nd and 3rd to deliver quicker acceleration.
The TSX's shift action is characteristically light in the Honda style, and it helps you appreciate the precision of the way it works, plus the way the clutch engages at exactly the right point in the pedal stroke. Heel-and-toe downshifts are rewarding, and the engine makes good sounds when you get it right. You can't pretend it's not fun, and before long your passenger wants to drive, too.
Still Too Slow?
If you're not into these sensory delights, though, chances are good you'll decide the TSX isn't quick enough. Its 7.7-second 0-60-mph time (7.2 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and 15.6-second quarter-mile at 89.8 mph are on par with the 2.0T-equipped Audi A4 and Volkswagen Passat, but the normally aspirated 2.4-liter's peaky power band isn't as friendly as the 2.0-liter turbo's flat torque curve.
The 2009 Acura TSX is also an easy mark for almost any family sedan with a V6, especially when equipped with the five-speed automatic. We tested a TSX with the five-speed and its 0-to-60-mph time fell to 8.6 seconds (8.3 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip). That's slower than all four of the family sedans in our last comparison test which included the Chevrolet Malibu, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima and Toyota Camry.
The 240-hp turbocharged 2.3-liter inline-4 in the Acura RDX seems like the obvious solution here. Even the 4,000-pound RDX beats the TSX through the quarter-mile (15.2 seconds at 90.4 seconds), so you can imagine the results if the engine had 600 fewer pounds of car to motivate. But the turbocharged engine's intercooler would have to go up front and that would lengthen the front overhang, and Acura's designers aren't up for a car with a big nose.
A more likely remedy will be Honda's 2.2-liter i-DTEC four-cylinder turbodiesel, already the favorite power plant among European buyers who know this car as their Accord. A turbodiesel engine is indeed coming soon for the TSX, although it won't be the Euro engine.
The Opposite of Flattery
If you end up on a back road with a 2009 Acura TSX, it probably won't be something you planned. Yes, the chassis has some life to it, but it's in such a conservative state of tune that the TSX is prevented from showing the kind of athleticism that enthusiast drivers like.
At a pace that sane people might drive, the '09 TSX has the compliant, springy ride that's characteristic of Honda, and the car feels light and willing. But as soon as you start to attack the corners, the TSX raises the white flag. There's considerable body roll and the P225/50R17 Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 all-season tires run out of grip quickly. And the lack of steering feedback makes you feel like you're driving the 2009 TSX half-blind.
This has real consequences in the slalom, where the Acura averages only 64.1 mph, one of the slowest speeds we've recorded among current-day, premium-brand cars. It's 1.5 mph slower than a 3,600-pound Honda Accord EX-L V6. Even a Mitsubishi Lancer with a weakling 2.0-liter engine and a power-sapping continuously variable transmission beats the TSX through the cones with a 65.4-mph speed. The TSX performs similarly on the skid pad, and its 0.79g is what we'd expect from a larger, heavier family sedan.
It's like the TSX hasn't had a sure hand to guide its development at the Honda proving grounds.
Where There's Smoke
We get it that Acura likes to keep unsprung weight to a minimum and tries not to burden its cars with oversize brake rotors and calipers. But this particular set of brakes for the 2009 Acura TSX isn't fully up to the task of stopping a 3,400-pound car (though some blame must go to the tires as well).
On a good day in normal traffic, there's no problem, and the pedal feel is solid and linear. But when we apply full braking power at our instrumented testing facility, it gets ugly.
The TSX won't stop any shorter from 60 mph than 127 feet, which is 14 feet farther than an all-wheel-drive Lexus IS 250 that weighs 100 pounds more (and costs the same). The TSX's brakes fade dramatically after just one stop, and there's smoke coming off the rotors by the third run. The car isn't happy. We're not happy.
Defining the Enthusiast
After these disappointments, we want to curl up into a ball in the 2009 Acura TSX's extraordinarily comfortable seats and call it a day.
And this is exactly what many TSX owners will do. As a home-to-office car, the new TSX is quite satisfying. You simply won't find another sedan that packs so many high-tech interior features for the $32,775 it costs to get into a 2009 Acura TSX with the Technology Package (your meal ticket to the navigation and Panasonic ELS sound systems).
What makes the Acura even more appealing is its ability to integrate all this technology into a control interface that feels slick and contemporary to Gizmodo geeks without disorienting late adopters still fumbling with their first Blackberry.
Yet if driving is still really about the driving for you, then the 2009 Acura TSX will seem like little more than an expensive accessory for your iPhone. Unless you can get by on the occasional rev-matched downshift, the second-gen TSX really isn't about the drive.
#1621
The TSX won't stop any shorter from 60 mph than 127 feet, which is 14 feet farther than an all-wheel-drive Lexus IS 250 that weighs 100 pounds more (and costs the same).
#1624
But the turbocharged engine's intercooler would have to go up front and that would lengthen the front overhang, and Acura's designers aren't up for a car with a big nose.
#1625
Originally Posted by einsatz
That's shameful. Could they have screwed up this car so badly?
I can't wait for the sales numbers of the 2009 TSX 1st qtr vs. the 2004 TSX's 1st qtr. sales.
I can't wait for the sales numbers of the 2009 TSX 1st qtr vs. the 2004 TSX's 1st qtr. sales.
#1626
Originally Posted by biker
Since when does an IS250AWD with NAV go for 32K?
I personally haven't driven one yet, so I have no opinion on its driving characteristics. However, it does sound like the brakes & tires are once again one of the weak points of the car.
#1627
Originally Posted by Dan Martin
I think it will sell just as well as the previous model, just not to car enthusiasts. As the article said, it's more of an expensive iPod accessory than it is a driver's car...
from the commercial, seems they're marketing towards young professionals looking to buy their first luxury car.
looks are subjective, and we "car enthusiasts" may be upset by the engine choices.
but there's still a large market for a $30k entry level "luxury" car. especially one with 30mpg.
#1628
Originally Posted by JediMindTricks
i agree.
from the commercial, seems they're marketing towards young professionals looking to buy their first luxury car.
looks are subjective, and we "car enthusiasts" may be upset by the engine choices.
but there's still a large market for a $30k entry level "luxury" car. especially one with 30mpg.
from the commercial, seems they're marketing towards young professionals looking to buy their first luxury car.
looks are subjective, and we "car enthusiasts" may be upset by the engine choices.
but there's still a large market for a $30k entry level "luxury" car. especially one with 30mpg.
For those who have $30k and couldn't care less about drifting or 0-60 time, it should do very very well until Lexus refreshes the IS or Infiniti figures out they needs something below the G35. We know the German brands offer some nice compact sedan choices for car enthusiasts, but their prices are so hard to get passed, unless you are a really serious driver who needs the extra HP and ability to take a right turn at 40mph to be happy. It's almost like they aren't even a competitor of the TSX (and vice versa)
#1629
It's really too bad VWs are so screwed up because you can get a Passat 2.0T Lux for $30,450 with leather and rear side airbags.
Now, if VW would just get their shit together and then offer a Passat TDi. Reports say that the 2009 Jetta TDi (with the shared Mercedes Bluetec technology) will get upwards of 50mpg.
If I drove a lot, I might have to roll the dice with VW for that kind of mileage. It's several hundred bucks a year (like $500+ if you drive a lot) cheaper in fuel costs. Probably pay for itself in 2.5-3 years at the current rate (and that's regular vs. diesel).
My point being that at $30k, the TSX really is the only "near-lux" car that I have confidence in ... But if you take the $30k price range in general then cars like the Subaru Legacy start creeping in even though they aren't "near lux".
Now, if VW would just get their shit together and then offer a Passat TDi. Reports say that the 2009 Jetta TDi (with the shared Mercedes Bluetec technology) will get upwards of 50mpg.
If I drove a lot, I might have to roll the dice with VW for that kind of mileage. It's several hundred bucks a year (like $500+ if you drive a lot) cheaper in fuel costs. Probably pay for itself in 2.5-3 years at the current rate (and that's regular vs. diesel).
My point being that at $30k, the TSX really is the only "near-lux" car that I have confidence in ... But if you take the $30k price range in general then cars like the Subaru Legacy start creeping in even though they aren't "near lux".
#1630
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Yea, for that price, there isn't really anything in the market that competes with it. Others offer more, but also for a higher price. I guess that's one of the reasons why the 1st gen TSX had been selling well?
I actually quite like the Passat, it's one of the best looking cars in the market. By the way, I thought the new TDi doesn't need bluetec?
I actually quite like the Passat, it's one of the best looking cars in the market. By the way, I thought the new TDi doesn't need bluetec?
#1631
Originally Posted by charliemike
It's really too bad VWs are so screwed up because you can get a Passat 2.0T Lux for $30,450 with leather and rear side airbags.
Now, if VW would just get their shit together and then offer a Passat TDi. Reports say that the 2009 Jetta TDi (with the shared Mercedes Bluetec technology) will get upwards of 50mpg.
If I drove a lot, I might have to roll the dice with VW for that kind of mileage. It's several hundred bucks a year (like $500+ if you drive a lot) cheaper in fuel costs. Probably pay for itself in 2.5-3 years at the current rate (and that's regular vs. diesel).
My point being that at $30k, the TSX really is the only "near-lux" car that I have confidence in ... But if you take the $30k price range in general then cars like the Subaru Legacy start creeping in even though they aren't "near lux".
Now, if VW would just get their shit together and then offer a Passat TDi. Reports say that the 2009 Jetta TDi (with the shared Mercedes Bluetec technology) will get upwards of 50mpg.
If I drove a lot, I might have to roll the dice with VW for that kind of mileage. It's several hundred bucks a year (like $500+ if you drive a lot) cheaper in fuel costs. Probably pay for itself in 2.5-3 years at the current rate (and that's regular vs. diesel).
My point being that at $30k, the TSX really is the only "near-lux" car that I have confidence in ... But if you take the $30k price range in general then cars like the Subaru Legacy start creeping in even though they aren't "near lux".
#1632
Originally Posted by iforyou
Yea, for that price, there isn't really anything in the market that competes with it. Others offer more, but also for a higher price. I guess that's one of the reasons why the 1st gen TSX had been selling well?
I actually quite like the Passat, it's one of the best looking cars in the market. By the way, I thought the new TDi doesn't need bluetec?
I actually quite like the Passat, it's one of the best looking cars in the market. By the way, I thought the new TDi doesn't need bluetec?
even with the price increase of the current model, it's really on its own in terms of value, packaging, and luxury.
when rumors of the price going up to $35k with the tech package, i remember thinking who would buy that when you can get a G for that price.
but luckily, it's not that high.
#1633
Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
I agree. I just don't trust VW. However, the TSX will have a diesel option by next year, which I am considering for my next vehicle, depending on the cost of the vehicle, the cost of diesel fuel, and the mpg it will get.
#1634
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Please make it as a 300hp, 500ft-lb torque twin turbo diesel engine option. That'll sure attract lots of buyers.
#1637
Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
I agree. I just don't trust VW. However, the TSX will have a diesel option by next year, which I am considering for my next vehicle, depending on the cost of the vehicle, the cost of diesel fuel, and the mpg it will get.
#1639
Originally Posted by charliemike
You should break even on fuel at 34mpg+ for the diesel. I'm pretty confident that the TSX diesel will beat 34mpg. But the extra cost of the engine is the variable that makes the purchase a good idea or a bad one.
Oh and the break even should be lower than 34MPG - if gas is $4 and diesel is $4.50 that's 13% higher fuel cost. Assuming an avg mileage of 25MPG for the gasser, the diesel would only need to avg about 28MPG to break even on fuel cost. The typical mileage boost of a diesel over a similar gasser is about 20%. If we're talking hwy mileage alone then I can see the 34MPG figure - but hwy figures are very easy to beat in the real world. 35MPG for the gasser and 45MPG for the diesel on the highway should be easily attainable.
#1640
Yet if driving is still really about the driving for you, then the 2009 Acura TSX will seem like little more than an expensive accessory for your iPhone. Unless you can get by on the occasional rev-matched downshift, the second-gen TSX really isn't about the drive.