Acura: TLX News
Team Owner
I thought the models in Canada are usually better equipped and have some unique stuff that US models just dont get...
Moderator
i am not even gonna go into details about those #s.
and you wonder why Honda sold 2796 units in UK in 2019 and BMW Sold 234,000
I know... exclusivity, the less they sold, they superior they are. I get it.
BMW Group UK has reported 234,637 BMW and MINI vehicle registrations in 2019 with one in ten UK new car customers now selecting a BMW Group vehicle.
Honda sold 2,796 cars in the United Kingdom (UK) in December 2019. The year as whole proved to be quite difficult for Honda's unit sales which were down about 16.5 percent compared to 2018.
and you wonder why Honda sold 2796 units in UK in 2019 and BMW Sold 234,000
I know... exclusivity, the less they sold, they superior they are. I get it.
BMW Group UK has reported 234,637 BMW and MINI vehicle registrations in 2019 with one in ten UK new car customers now selecting a BMW Group vehicle.
Honda sold 2,796 cars in the United Kingdom (UK) in December 2019. The year as whole proved to be quite difficult for Honda's unit sales which were down about 16.5 percent compared to 2018.
Your data says 234,637 BMW in 2019 (total year)
Also says 2,796 Honda in December 2019 (just 1 month?)
Team Owner
Honda UK 2019 sales... Honda 43,913
BMW Group UK 2019 sales 234,637
6G TLX-S
It is certainly missing out from the huge European markets, and doesn't do the Acura brand much good without the global brand name recognition.
Team Owner
Agree. In fact, the Acura brand has a very limited exposure worldwide, unlike Audi, BMW, MB, and Lexus. The Acura brand is only available in US, China, Canada, Mexico, and Kuwait. Elsewhere on earth, the same vehicle is sold under the (econo) Honda brand, and almost no one there knows what the heck an Acura is.
It is certainly missing out from the huge European markets, and doesn't do the Acura brand much good without the global brand name recognition.
It is certainly missing out from the huge European markets, and doesn't do the Acura brand much good without the global brand name recognition.
Team Owner
Senior Moderator
Cuz, you know...Amerikkkan...stupid. Look at who we elected.
And it's not nationcist if I'm being nationcist to my own kind.
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,521
Received 846 Likes
on
526 Posts
Hmm the RDX in the US is $38k to $48k USD before destination.
The RDX in Canada is $44.5k to $56.5k CAD before destination. That's equivalent to $34k USD to $43k USD.
We are actually getting the better deal....PLUS more features than you guys...lol!
The RDX in Canada is $44.5k to $56.5k CAD before destination. That's equivalent to $34k USD to $43k USD.
We are actually getting the better deal....PLUS more features than you guys...lol!
BMW just have more variety like diesel and Electric/Plug In. Electric-Plugs in get upto $4K grant. so it reduce the net price. Honda E just introduced.
6G TLX-S
Race Director
selling less does not mean that Honda is losing. infact just look around used cars values there. Honda is holding far better end of lease deals.
BMW just have more variety like diesel and Electric/Plug In. Electric-Plugs in get upto $4K grant. so it reduce the net price. Honda E just introduced.
BMW just have more variety like diesel and Electric/Plug In. Electric-Plugs in get upto $4K grant. so it reduce the net price. Honda E just introduced.
Honda is slashing the # of dealerships in Australia and going to a distributorship/set price model as they have been struggling to turn a profit in that market.
They've already cut the Jazz and City from the lineup and likely will cut other modeks, basically just having a core lineup of the CR-V, HR-V and Civic.
Sales have already been on the decline and Honda forecasts that under the new system, that sales will be cut in half to under 20k.
The situation is not that different for Honda Europe.
In the UK (Honda's largest market with a 37% share), Honda plans on reducing the # of dealerships from 155 down to as low as 100 (which was already down from 174 in 2014).
With the smaller network, Honda is even contemplating deal-breaker sales, partnering with another brand/automaker.
https://www.am-online.com/news/latest-news/2019/06/19/honda-uk-plans-to-cut-up-to-55-sites-in-the-next-two-to-three-years
You really think LOW sales work? (Only in your deluded world.)
Low sales really worked out for the RLX, didn’t it? Lol
Honda is closing its factories in the UK and Turkey due to low sales.
Last edited by YEH; 08-22-2020 at 04:13 PM.
Oh, really? (And did you jot learn anything when had told you that resale doesn't really impact automakers?)
Honda is slashing the # of dealerships in Australia and going to a distributorship/set price model as they have been struggling to turn a profit in that market.
They've already cut the Jazz and City from the lineup and likely will cut other modeks, basically just having a core lineup of the CR-V, HR-V and Civic.
Sales have already been on the decline and Honda forecasts that under the new system, that sales will be cut in half to under 20k.
The situation is not that different for Honda Europe.
Honda is slashing the # of dealerships in Australia and going to a distributorship/set price model as they have been struggling to turn a profit in that market.
They've already cut the Jazz and City from the lineup and likely will cut other modeks, basically just having a core lineup of the CR-V, HR-V and Civic.
Sales have already been on the decline and Honda forecasts that under the new system, that sales will be cut in half to under 20k.
The situation is not that different for Honda Europe.
Honda has three independent R&D groups/Groups. China, Japan, US. they are not concerned by small markets.
Chinese made Volvos are shipped on trains to Europe. At some point Honda will start utlizing this approach for Europe market as electrification will accelerate in 2021. thats why Honda is investing massively in China.
China Focus: China's western regions accelerate opening up amid epidemic - Xinhua | English.news.cn
In late February, automaker Volvo's plant in Chengdu gradually resumed its exports to the European market, shipping products to European countries via China-Europe freight trains.
In late February, automaker Volvo's plant in Chengdu gradually resumed its exports to the European market, shipping products to European countries via China-Europe freight trains.
within two years of this statement. Euro has risen by 12% (adding $2.5T to GDP) and Europe interest rates have gone down. it is matter of time they give similar ultimatums to rest of trade partners. which China can fullfill but South Korea cant.
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-urges-...nce/a-45242528
Germany urges SWIFT end to US payments dominance
Most of engineering work done in Japan for honda/Acura?. where you get this information?.
All German RWD vehicles are cheaper than FWD Honda in Europe.
And a major reason why Honda prices are higher over in Europe is because they don't have the economies of scale and with most models being imported (may be all with the closure of the Swindon plant) get hit with the 10% tariff.
Australia small market. and export honda are expensive.
And it's not so small for Toyota and H/K.
within two years of this statement. Euro has risen by 12% (adding $2.5T to GDP) and Europe interest rates have gone down. it is matter of time they give similar ultimatums to rest of trade partners. which China can fullfill but South Korea cant.
And there's the real danger of being so heavily invested/dependant on China.
Under Xi, the PRC has been very aggressively when it comes to territorial claims.
What do you think will happen the next time the territorial dispute over an island with Japan fires back up again?
And with the PRC basically abrogating its agreement of a 2-system state when it comes to HK, the West will take a harder stance against China.
Once, again, you have gone off on a tangent and not directly addressed the issue at hand.
To deflect, mislead and change the topic has long been your MO, but to little avail.
NSX mostly developed in US except for hybrid system. so where is your statement to back that most R&D done in Japan?
NSX designed in US.
https://nsx.acura.com/explore/engineering
The heart of NSX was born in the heartland of America, where lead engineers and their teams lived and breathed NSX in Ohio. Design was developed at the Acura Design Studio in Los Angeles, collaborating with the Ohio teams. Testing and tuning took place in labs and at tracks across the country
Um, no, esp. as Honda doesn't have the equivalent of an S Class competitor.
And a major reason why Honda prices are higher over in Europe is because they don't have the economies of scale and with most models being imported (may be all with the closure of the Swindon plant) get hit with the 10% tariff.
And a major reason why Honda prices are higher over in Europe is because they don't have the economies of scale and with most models being imported (may be all with the closure of the Swindon plant) get hit with the 10% tariff.
Swindon built Hondas not cheap either. Honda Civic Type R similar price as BMW 3 series M Sport. why would economy of scale matter on imported Honda CRV. ?which is global product. anywhere can be shipped with shipping charges. BMW X class SUVs are also imported into Europe.
That 10% tariff is going away any time soon, and many prospective buyers refuse to purchase Chinese-built autos (much less Chinese brands).
This is German version of Fedex.
https://www.dhl.com/cn-en/home/press...d-germany.html
DHL LAUNCHES FASTEST RAIL FREIGHT SERVICE BETWEEN CHINA AND GERMANY
And there's the real danger of being so heavily invested/dependant on China.
Under Xi, the PRC has been very aggressively when it comes to territorial claims.
What do you think will happen the next time the territorial dispute over an island with Japan fires back up again?
And with the PRC basically abrogating its agreement of a 2-system state when it comes to HK, the West will take a harder stance against China.
Once, again, you have gone off on a tangent and not directly addressed the issue at hand.
To deflect, mislead and change the topic has long been your MO, but to little avail.
EU, China and Japan has very different policies. small potatos like SK will be crushed and it wont even realize what happen to it.
Latent car nut
iTrader: (2)
Wow, this thread has seriously gone off the rails.
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
its what happens when YEH and SSFTSX get together
Senior Moderator
Sigh. Well, it's a discussion, I guess.
If what we allow in AZ is a benchmark, this is like, tame.
If what we allow in AZ is a benchmark, this is like, tame.
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (5)
Liquid Ice
It is always interesting comparing MSRPs of vehicles - that is how car reviewers generally pick cars to compare, or in some cases will give the nod to one car over another because even though they prefer the more expensive one - the cheaper one has more value.
But - they never (perhaps because it is difficult) explore what people are actually paying for a vehicle. TrueCar comes closest to that I guess, but it is hard to tell how accurate it is. Like others have said though The M340xi has more headroom to discount off of MSRP I believe than Acura generally does. For my 2020 M340xi (which I custom ordered and took delivery in October 2019 btw, this was not a car sitting on the lot or a leftover 2020), it was a $68,070 MSRP including destination (I have most options checked, I think the only option I did not check was the Cooling & Tire Package but I did upgrade to the 19" Summer Tire package) but my price was $57,763 including destination after discounts and rebates but before tax, title, tags. That is greater than $10k off the MSRP for the first year of a redesigned car no less. Sure, resale value off MSRP may be really bad as a result - but if you know how to do your research you can get an M340xi a lot cheaper than MSRP.
I haven't done the comparison - but if you spec a M340xi down closer to standard options on the TLX Type S, I'll bet you can get the price (after discounts) below the expected ~$55K MSRP for the TLX-S. Not sure on average the discount off of MSRP for an Acura, but a quick look says 5% off gets you to Invoice prices on an RDX. So maybe $52,200 or so for Invoice price?
But - they never (perhaps because it is difficult) explore what people are actually paying for a vehicle. TrueCar comes closest to that I guess, but it is hard to tell how accurate it is. Like others have said though The M340xi has more headroom to discount off of MSRP I believe than Acura generally does. For my 2020 M340xi (which I custom ordered and took delivery in October 2019 btw, this was not a car sitting on the lot or a leftover 2020), it was a $68,070 MSRP including destination (I have most options checked, I think the only option I did not check was the Cooling & Tire Package but I did upgrade to the 19" Summer Tire package) but my price was $57,763 including destination after discounts and rebates but before tax, title, tags. That is greater than $10k off the MSRP for the first year of a redesigned car no less. Sure, resale value off MSRP may be really bad as a result - but if you know how to do your research you can get an M340xi a lot cheaper than MSRP.
I haven't done the comparison - but if you spec a M340xi down closer to standard options on the TLX Type S, I'll bet you can get the price (after discounts) below the expected ~$55K MSRP for the TLX-S. Not sure on average the discount off of MSRP for an Acura, but a quick look says 5% off gets you to Invoice prices on an RDX. So maybe $52,200 or so for Invoice price?
Liquid Ice
I built a quick 2021 BMW M340i xDrive - if you don't care about the upgraded sound system, you can get by with a config for around $62,900. If you want the HK sound system, you have to add the Premium Package which includes the HUD and Heated Steering Wheel which the TLX-S doesn't have and results in an MSRP of $64,675.
MSRP discounts are averaging about 10% off before incentives which would bring you do $56,610 or $58,207. Because the 2021s are so new and they're trying to clear out the 2020 models, the incentives currently are all on the 2020 models - but the 2021 incentives normally start in the fall timeframe. If you already own a BMW, and we use the 2020 incentives (which are not much different than when I bought in Oct 2019) and you finance with BMW, there is an additional $4500 in incentives plus a $500 rebate through BMW CCA. So we're talking hypotheticals in a few months on the 2021's, but that would bring the price down to $51,610 or $53,207. It may take some extra negotiating to get yourself there - but that isn't too bad and not too far off the theoretical price of a TLX-S. Not everyone qualifies for all of those incentives, so add $1000 if you can qualify for the conquest incentive (most should be able to get that), and add $500 if you're not part of BMW CCA but can join 6 months before you take possession of the car add $159 to the price (the cost of a 3 year membership to BMW CCA).
Will be interesting to see pricing once the TLX-S comes out and how the prices people are paying compare to the price people are actually paying for competitors like the M340i xDrive.
MSRP discounts are averaging about 10% off before incentives which would bring you do $56,610 or $58,207. Because the 2021s are so new and they're trying to clear out the 2020 models, the incentives currently are all on the 2020 models - but the 2021 incentives normally start in the fall timeframe. If you already own a BMW, and we use the 2020 incentives (which are not much different than when I bought in Oct 2019) and you finance with BMW, there is an additional $4500 in incentives plus a $500 rebate through BMW CCA. So we're talking hypotheticals in a few months on the 2021's, but that would bring the price down to $51,610 or $53,207. It may take some extra negotiating to get yourself there - but that isn't too bad and not too far off the theoretical price of a TLX-S. Not everyone qualifies for all of those incentives, so add $1000 if you can qualify for the conquest incentive (most should be able to get that), and add $500 if you're not part of BMW CCA but can join 6 months before you take possession of the car add $159 to the price (the cost of a 3 year membership to BMW CCA).
Will be interesting to see pricing once the TLX-S comes out and how the prices people are paying compare to the price people are actually paying for competitors like the M340i xDrive.
Last edited by LiQiCE; 08-24-2020 at 01:04 PM.
It is always interesting comparing MSRPs of vehicles - that is how car reviewers generally pick cars to compare, or in some cases will give the nod to one car over another because even though they prefer the more expensive one - the cheaper one has more value.
But - they never (perhaps because it is difficult) explore what people are actually paying for a vehicle. TrueCar comes closest to that I guess, but it is hard to tell how accurate it is. Like others have said though The M340xi has more headroom to discount off of MSRP I believe than Acura generally does. For my 2020 M340xi (which I custom ordered and took delivery in October 2019 btw, this was not a car sitting on the lot or a leftover 2020), it was a $68,070 MSRP including destination (I have most options checked, I think the only option I did not check was the Cooling & Tire Package but I did upgrade to the 19" Summer Tire package) but my price was $57,763 including destination after discounts and rebates but before tax, title, tags. That is greater than $10k off the MSRP for the first year of a redesigned car no less. Sure, resale value off MSRP may be really bad as a result - but if you know how to do your research you can get an M340xi a lot cheaper than MSRP.
I haven't done the comparison - but if you spec a M340xi down closer to standard options on the TLX Type S, I'll bet you can get the price (after discounts) below the expected ~$55K MSRP for the TLX-S. Not sure on average the discount off of MSRP for an Acura, but a quick look says 5% off gets you to Invoice prices on an RDX. So maybe $52,200 or so for Invoice price?
But - they never (perhaps because it is difficult) explore what people are actually paying for a vehicle. TrueCar comes closest to that I guess, but it is hard to tell how accurate it is. Like others have said though The M340xi has more headroom to discount off of MSRP I believe than Acura generally does. For my 2020 M340xi (which I custom ordered and took delivery in October 2019 btw, this was not a car sitting on the lot or a leftover 2020), it was a $68,070 MSRP including destination (I have most options checked, I think the only option I did not check was the Cooling & Tire Package but I did upgrade to the 19" Summer Tire package) but my price was $57,763 including destination after discounts and rebates but before tax, title, tags. That is greater than $10k off the MSRP for the first year of a redesigned car no less. Sure, resale value off MSRP may be really bad as a result - but if you know how to do your research you can get an M340xi a lot cheaper than MSRP.
I haven't done the comparison - but if you spec a M340xi down closer to standard options on the TLX Type S, I'll bet you can get the price (after discounts) below the expected ~$55K MSRP for the TLX-S. Not sure on average the discount off of MSRP for an Acura, but a quick look says 5% off gets you to Invoice prices on an RDX. So maybe $52,200 or so for Invoice price?
The following 2 users liked this post by fiatlux:
civicdrivr (08-24-2020),
LiQiCE (08-24-2020)
Team Owner
They were supposed to stay in the Acura News thread for this... But you know SSFTSX will go to every thread to promote Honda/Acura, just like that guy who promotes Tesla in every thread yet he doesn't even own 1.
Team Owner
When I specced out an M340xi to match that of the Type-S, it came out to $64K. Shave $10K off, and you're looking at $54K. Still more than the Type-S, but it's within spitting distance, and at this price range, in this segment of the market, I just can't see potential buyers splitting hairs over this small of a difference in price. The Type-S will either have to be substantially better than the M340xi (I have my doubts), or Acura will have to put some serious cash on the hood to incentive prospective buyers.
Knowing Acura, they will hold on to Type-S trim like their dear life.... = no discount for a long time... they did that with the TLX and it didnt even have turbo or Type S trim.
Uh...I did reference that the Type-S needs to be substantially better to make up for such a small difference in price. Are we not on the same wavelength?
Team Owner
I dont think i disagreed with you.
But substantially better is kinda vague cuz it could be the interior, performance, equipment or any other part of the car.
I am sure some aspect of new Type-S will be better than the M340... but i was just saying specifically the performance aspect.
But substantially better is kinda vague cuz it could be the interior, performance, equipment or any other part of the car.
I am sure some aspect of new Type-S will be better than the M340... but i was just saying specifically the performance aspect.
Ex-OEM King
Liquid Ice
I dont think i disagreed with you.
But substantially better is kinda vague cuz it could be the interior, performance, equipment or any other part of the car.
I am sure some aspect of new Type-S will be better than the M340... but i was just saying specifically the performance aspect.
But substantially better is kinda vague cuz it could be the interior, performance, equipment or any other part of the car.
I am sure some aspect of new Type-S will be better than the M340... but i was just saying specifically the performance aspect.
Team Owner
Team Owner
As the Econ brand and lower models from the luxury brands get better and more equipment... it is getting harder to differentiate themselves..
Remember the days that Navi used to be $2000 option... it is standard now
Liquid Ice
How else are they going to charge for it in the 5 series if they put it on 3 series...
As the Econ brand and lower models from the luxury brands get better and more equipment... it is getting harder to differentiate themselves..
Remember the days that Navi used to be $2000 option... it is standard now
As the Econ brand and lower models from the luxury brands get better and more equipment... it is getting harder to differentiate themselves..
Remember the days that Navi used to be $2000 option... it is standard now
Compared to most manufacturers, BMW does a better job imho of trickling down features into the lower end models including engines. While some manufacturers wouldn't dream of putting their higher horsepower engines into their smallest compact cars, you can get the same (or very similar) B58 6 cylinder turbo in the 2 series, 3 series, 5 series and 7 series. Imagine if the ILX had a 6 cylinder option out of the TLX?
A lot of the other BMW features are found in the M340i xDrive now - things like Laser Lights with anti-dazzle (in every market but the USA, although this is reportedly being approved in October), full hand free driving at lower speeds (less than 40mph), automatic parking, reverse assistant, gesture control, "Hey BMW" Voice control, etc etc.
There are some differentiating things such as the availability of a V8 engine in their larger cars or higher end audio systems, better leather, etc. and I guess ventilated seats.
But I actually like that BMW for the most part doesn't shy away from putting new features into all of their cars and you can generally add options to any line of car, it isn't like I can't get a heated steering wheel on the M340i because it is the "sport model".
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,521
Received 846 Likes
on
526 Posts
Imo it's mainly supply and demand and what sales volume the automaker wanna achieve. For instance, if BMW want to sell 5000 3 series a month and that requires discounting by 20%, then they will do that. Likewise if Acura wanna sell 2000 tlx a month, and they only need to discount by 5% to do that, then they will just do that.
But ya BMW likely has a higher margin than Acura because of the higher msrp. BMW probably makes enough money from other buyers that only get 10% off to offset the customers that get 20% off. That's the beauty of having a strong brand image I guess. After all, the cost for Acura to build a tlx is unlikely to be much cheaper than for BMW to build a 3 series.
But ya BMW likely has a higher margin than Acura because of the higher msrp. BMW probably makes enough money from other buyers that only get 10% off to offset the customers that get 20% off. That's the beauty of having a strong brand image I guess. After all, the cost for Acura to build a tlx is unlikely to be much cheaper than for BMW to build a 3 series.
Ex-OEM King
Brand image...and the idiots who buy cars based on the advertised lease specials.
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,521
Received 846 Likes
on
526 Posts
Yea in the RDX owners' FB group, it seems the deals do vary quite a bit depending on where you live. It's not uncommon for people to get $5k off the RDX. And there are people getting $9k off a RDX A-spec, which is pretty much 20% off the MSRP. Over time one can probably get a similar discount on a Type S.
Liquid Ice
An interesting link on the 2021 TLX ... https://www.acurainfocenter.com/vehi...rview/2021-tlx
They have a comparison chart between the 2021 TLX (2.0T only) and their competitors - https://assets.acurainfocenter.com/w...RISON_v1_0.pdf
I can't seem to find it on this link anymore - but someone posted the weight of the car on vtec.net and said they got it from the above website - here is what they said:
That is a fairly heavy car - I can't only imagine what the Type S with the V6 turbo will weigh.
They have a comparison chart between the 2021 TLX (2.0T only) and their competitors - https://assets.acurainfocenter.com/w...RISON_v1_0.pdf
I can't seem to find it on this link anymore - but someone posted the weight of the car on vtec.net and said they got it from the above website - here is what they said:
The base TLX (FWD) curb weight is 3709 lbs, the A-spec (SH-AWD) is 3990 lbs, and the Advance (SH-AWD) is 4028 lbs.
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
She's a big girl...