00TL-P3.2

The PMC TLX is ~$49k, granted it's a limited production run, but >$50k doesn't seem out of line for the TTV6 SH-AWD TypeS.

oonowindoo

If Type S starts at 50k = death.
But there are plenty of $60k M340i, or C43 or S4 and not everyone will compare them apple to apple with TLX-S. = why spend $50k on a Acura when you get a BMW/Audi/Mercedes for a few thousand more.
and a $60k M340i will have just as much features/tech as a loaded TLX-S. They extras will not be offered by Acura anyway.

IMO, TLX-S should start less than 40k and top around $47k to really challenge the EU brands. Basically current pricing. But i dont think a TLX-S will cost the same as the "normal" TLX right now tho.

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

Looks good

Shadow2056

You might be able to get a BMW/Mercedes/Audi for a few grand more but only if you're leasing it. No one really wants to keep those cars new past 60k because of maintenance. If I can get a car that has the reliability of Acura and the power of the BMW or Mercedes, I'll pick Acura all day. I can see the Type S being at least the $50k range. MAYBE in the $40s.

00TL-P3.2

Yes, the AMG & AMG-lite are probably a bit more on maintenance, but my C300 is knocking on 50k & trouble free so far.

oonowindoo

You know Business make more $$ from leasing right? They can make $$ twice on 2 different level of customers on the same car.

I am not sure what you mean by no one, Have you checked Acura's sales #s?
Also maybe you will do that, there are also 100 people buying RLX.
But generally speaking when the car reaches at a certain price point, it needs more than the actual product to sell to the mass. I am just hope Acura does not put TLX-S in price segment that they are not ready yet.

BTW: I dont think reliability of Acura is anything to brag about nowadays. We are not in the late 90s early 2000s anymore. Maintenance cost yes.. but you gotta pay to play.

ttribe

I own an '09 E93 335i with 165k miles and a '14 F10 M5 with 80k miles...I guess I'm "no one."

Shadow2056

Correction. Not "No one" but not a lot of people. Lol.

Working at a dealership, I see people come in all the time with BMW, Audi, and Mercedes with about 45-65k on the clock wanting to trade out of it. Only because they enjoyed it for the miles and the "prestige" but after that, they want a Civic or Accord to get a lower payment, the maintenance runs out, and don't like running 93. Lol. Like right now I have a 15 BMW 335i with 50k miles on it. Owner traded into an Accord Sport. A 2016 Mercedes GLC with 28k. Another lease. Traded. Had a guy last year traded out of a 2015 Audi A7. Beautiful car. Traded and got an Odyssey. No kids. Just liked the Odyssey and didn't want to pay $3k to buy new tires for the A7. Lol. His words. Hahaha!

Reliability is my driving link for Honda and Acura. If their reliability has gone down, I wouldn't want to own one anymore. But I'm sure it's more reliable than their counterparts. But as you said...gotta pay to play.

ttribe. Lol. You're someone. Lol. I'm sure you take real good care of your BMWs. Especially with that kind of mileage on them. Others....well at least in my area, just get them because the leases are cheap and they can say "I own a BMW/Audi/Mercedes." I can't count how many times I've had someone say "$435/mth on an Accord? I can go up to Charlotte and buy a BMW for less." Lol.

oonowindoo

Not a lot of people? I think if you checked, you will see plenty of BMW/Mercedes/Audi on the street that are older than 3 years old... also for all the trade ins you got, where do you think they went? someone will buy them again.

But those buyers who traded in their BMW/ Audi/Mercedes, they still skipped Acura all together in the first place right, even clearly they could not afford it? That is the point.

Also While i know people who went from BMW/Mercedes/Audi back to Acura/Lexus and etc... but i dont think i know anyone who was thrilled about it after the switch.
Even our beloved Saintor who went from BMW to TLX, just recently went back to Audi again.. i wonder why... @Yumcha

Yumcha

Saintor never went back to an Audi S5 because well, we will never confirm that.

ttribe

Uggh, sampling bias bites the argument in the ass, once again.

kurtatx

You’re gonna have to spell it out for him

SSFTSX

You always goes down this rabbit hole of defending worthless German brands.
This Audi lost $22k in less than a year of driving. and still not selling in 3 months. there are tons of similar example of losing it.

https://www.volvopaloalto.com/used/A...a33a4b898c.htm

kurtatx

Cute. Now show us the RLX.

And while you're at it, compare sales numbers. Never mind, I got it.

I made them nice and big for you.

Shadow2056

Nope. Don't have to explain anything. I'll just let him be right because he's obviously has to be instead of just saying "Hey...he has a good point."

So back to the Type S. Who actually plans to get one when it comes out if it looks like the concept? Acura has been pretty consistent when it comes to their concepts looking like the actual production model with a few changes.

kurtatx

I mean, I guess. Precision Concept never became anything. You see some of it in the line of course, but the original concept never became anything

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

If it looked like the concept, wasn't FWD based, and had a 400hp+ 3.0TT under the hood, yeah I'd be very interested in trading the R for one.

But the spy shots don't really line up with the concept. And since some sources say the concept doesn't even have an interior, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the next TLX will be influenced by the concept, but it will not be the concept. Also, the spy shots show off a car with pretty bland proportions in comparison (shorter nose, taller roof, etc).

Acura really needs to flex whatever engineering muscle they have left in order to wow me enough to bring me (and I'm sure many others) into their showroom.

kurtatx

Yeah, I see that concept and I think "those are going to be some nice taillights on the Accord body".

350 horses in that body? Okay, Acura is back. But a concept in Acura land it going to be dumbed down severely before release.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Honestly I see this competing more with the Infiniti Q60 & Q60 Red Sport and maybe the Kia Stinger over any of the German brands. If it has 350hp, then it's got the Stinger beat in power, but it would be down on the Infiniti's. If it's $10k less - sure, no big deal. But if this is a $50k car, they've got to come out with a car in the 400hp range. Even if it's with the use of hybrid tech.

And before any of the Acura fanboys say shit about Infiniti, realize that Acura is Honda's Infiniti

SSFTSX

Sales number does not tell the lease rates or original purchase discount. its only in used market we can estimate how far the price has fallen so quickly. out of warranty BMW/Audi/MB has practical negative worth.
if you had timing chain problem in German crap you would wish you had good old Honda J series timing belt engine.
over 100K miles Acura TL selling at $10k I am sure there was atleast $20k transaction price difference when they were purchased new. Acura TL FWD vs BMW 535 AWD.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd...953181035.html
2009 ACURA TL - $10469 (Hollister, CA

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd...958414065.html
2011 BMW 5 Series 535i xDrive AWD LOW MILES LOADED with - $13985

kurtatx

Well, if you look closely, you'll know the Honda/Acura is more likely to fail than an Audi these days. Poor reliability on bad transmissions. Acura really has messed up bad. No one wants them (see RLX)

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I hear you. But I also heard that they are gonna cut the RLX and gonna focus on 4 core models (ILX, TLX, RDX, MDX) + NSX. And with the core models, they will make more variants out of them to get more volume. I guess we will see in the near future.

Haha ya $49k isn't too bad for a limited production car that is heavily hand built. But...too much for a TLX....

Yea, $60k for a M340i would pretty much be about as well equipped as the current gen TLX advance. However, based on the new RDX, they now have way more features and I think a 2nd gen TLX-S would probably be closer to a $65k M340i in features. The M340i would still have more features if you go all the way to $70k.

It's unlikely but a possibility that a base TLX-S will start below $40k, assuming they offer different packages and options for the Type S, unlike before where a Type S is fully loaded. Currently, a TLX V6 AWD is $38k. I suspect it will be closer to $42k though if they were to make a base TLX-S. Not as attractive as a $39.9k TLX-S for sure, but that's still like $12k cheaper than a base M340i. In fact, at $42k, that's like 330i base price.

TLX 2.0T base FWD: $34k
TLX 2.0T Tech FWD: $37.5k
TLX 2.0T Adv FWD: $42k

TLX 2.0T base AWD: $36k
TLX 2.0T Tech AWD: $39.5k
TLX 2.0T Adv AWD: $44.5k

TLX-S base AWD: $42.5k
TLX-S Tech AWD: $47k
TLX-S Adv AWD: $52k

For comparison, the Q50 range goes from $35.5k to $57.5k. The A4 (S4) goes from $39k to $66.5k.

I just don't think the TLX-S fully loaded will be less than $50k based on how much the other competitors are. That's gonna be $20k cheaper which is huge. Even the impressive Genesis G70 3.3T sport is $52.5k. Acura needs to price the car aggressively, but it's a bit hard to imagine that it will be the cheapest model in the segment.

I think they will just use the Type S to help bring excitement back to the brand and that most people will just opt for the $40k 2.0T.

SSFTSX

it does not matter what happen in reality. German brands are now automatically associated with huge maintianance costs and huge depreciation. so consumer automatically assumes the cheapest lease with free maintainance is the best.

kurtatx

You're full of it. Acura and Audi are rated at the same depreciation by JD Power because no one actually wants an Acura. Come back with a source other than 2 craigslist entries

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings.../manufacturers

SSFTSX

Audi has both higher depreciation inside warranty and outside warranty time period. infact JD power associated is incapable of calculating depreciation.
I did not type this English. of keep remind people half price and under full warranty.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto...958797460.html
Beautiful and Hard-to-find color combination (Daytona Grey Pearl) 2016 Audi Q5 Premium AWD With ONLY 23,000 Miles and still under Full Factory Warranty! Only one owner and in Stunning condition, this AWD SUV comes loaded with nearly $5,000 in options alone! Costing $46,000 New
All Books/Manuals and even the Original Window Sticker! Priced Well Under KBB and Market at an Unbelievable Price of ONLY $23,990 (that's 1/2 off from new and it has ONLY 23,000 Miles)!

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

You're seriously using a buy here, pay here dealership on Craigslist as evidence?

Check these bad boys out:





My math is a little rusty, but I believe these low mileage examples are well under 1/2 what they cost new.

kurtatx

Clearly they're knock-off German models

SSFTSX

Check the Carfax. It is damaged vehicle.
https://www.victorymitsubishi.com/in...ub2f30ga007030

I posted Audi SUV which is supposed to hold value better but still the seller need emphasis half price under warranty. idiot should have advertised whats the prices after warranty.

CCColtsicehockey

If this TypeS doesn't have 400hp+ then I agree it really is a waste. That said I believe that is exactly what will happen. As usual, Acura will disappoint. The concept is beautiful though.

Shadow2056

When we have people trade their cars in, we use NADA and KBB. Looking at those values, CLEAN trade in with the average mileage(2015 base trims with 60k miles), the Audi A4 is at $12,975. The TLX is at $13,475. You can't use mom and pop(dirt lot, "used car", or auctions) as a basis for the comparison. That takes the bottom of the barrel that might have no-remedy recalls, check engine lights, and cosmetic issues and mixes it with clean cars that have fresh or low mileage tires, clean CarFax and more that drives up the value with it being clean. BMWs hold their value less than Audi. Looking at similarly equipped cars(A4, 330xi, TLX SH-AWD w/Advanced Package), the Audi and Acura are on par with each other while BMW seems to be at the bottom.

But from what I've seen come in and the values on them, I had people in BMWs come in owing $35k on their car they just bought a year ago wanting to trade out of it and the car is only worth $24k.

ttribe

Ummm, no. I have no inherent need to "be right." I just understand the impact of biased sampling on perception. You have a perception that "no one" wants to keep their BMW past a certain mileage. I believe that perception is a direct result of experiencing people who come into your dealership who want to trade out of their BMWs at that approximate age. That is not, however, representative of the entire population of ownership; it's a small subset and you're assuming everyone else is just like that small subset and you're building arguments around that perception that make you look silly.

SSFTSX

imported Audi A4 on avg much higher price than TLX. when buy new. but after warranty A4 goes below even TSX.
Dealer are asking $16000 for 7 year old Acura TSX approaching 100k miles. off course it is Japanese built.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8260/overview/

USED

2012 Acura TSX Technology

oonowindoo

so now we are talking about resale value now? I thought we were talking about Maintenance and why TLX-S will die at 50k+

But Ok... here it is, Resale value is for poor people

oonowindoo

The point you are trying to made has been made since the introduction of 4G TL... so yah we have heard it for over a decade already.

oonowindoo

If the Type S base starts 42k... What does Acura have to justify the $10k in MSRP between base and Advance? They can't have a Type S A Spec

Yes Infiniti does go into 57k and do you not see how fast those 50k red sports are selling?

Shadow2056

You just proved my point. Thank you.

That's true. Having free maintenance is definitely a great selling point. That's one thing I would want if I bought a pre-owned German brand. Especially a BMW. That's one thing a few M3 owners told me to do. If I decide to get one, make sure I have one that has the maintenance and/or warranty still intact.

SamDoe1

IDGAF about the other conversation going through here, it's largely pointless, so I'm going back to something from before.

I just did a build and price on the M340i I'd want and it came out with an MSRP of ~$65k. With ~10% for a sell price of ~$59k, it would be a hard sell for me to get a TLX-S for only $4k less if there's no markup on these. If the TLX-S comes in at less than $50k then I'd have to think a lot more about it...

oonowindoo

i think that is a good rule when buying ANY used cars regardless of brand....

The only difference is one will cost you 1000 and the other will probably cost you $3000 for the same issue. Like i said, you want a M3 then you gotta pay for it...

oonowindoo

You got the Laser light, didn't you

We had seen what Acura did to TLX during the first 2 years... they thought they had the best thing ever, thus, little to no discount was given and leasing rate sucked balls. The result was the sales was never as good as expected.

I dont see why they will do any differently this time around... especially now they have Type-S with Turbooo

So i would not be surprised that TLX-S will cost about the same as a M340i to buy and probably more expensive to lease than M340i. Especially considering that When TLX-S is released, M340i is not going to be new anymore. So even more discount could be had vs. a car with markup...

ttribe

[sigh] Never mind. I tried.