AZuser

Only decent car (i.e. non truck/SUV) in their lineup.

TLX = 3,768

Audi A4 = 3,403

BMW 3 series = 6,218
BMW 4 series = 4,710

Buick LaCrosse = 2,275

Cadillac ATS = 1,859

Infiniti Q50 = 5,590
Infiniti Q60 = 105

Lexus IS = 3,679
Lexus ES = 5,792

Mercedes C Class = 6,658

Nissan Maximia = 6,588

kurtatx

What did they do to the Q50 to not make it terrible?

I was so unimpressed when I tried it.

JAB00

The new RDX is a nice looking small sized SUV. I'd probably pick a nicely loaded RDX over an MDX. Honda just needs to scarp the RLX and start from scratch.

SSFTSX

Honda has the least amount of cars in its lineup among major automaker.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...ore-crossovers
BMW needs to better balance its crossover supply with cars to meet demand and stop pushing cars, says Damon Shelly, chairman of the BMW National Dealer Forum.

oonowindoo

Price.

especially if you are leasing.

The money you pay =/= the car you drive. Good deal.

Also the "new" Q50 with TT are coming out soon. So you know, whoring out the old ones.

oonowindoo

Is having least amount of cars a good thing?

TacoBello

It doesn't matter if it's a good thing. As long as Honda/Acura does something, SSFTSX will approve of it.

Edward'TLS

Well tough luck.

Life is simple.

You build less cars, you lose market share, and in the end, you don't make as much money as others.

kurtatx

It's immaterial. You can have too many variants and only sell tons of certain variants or you can sell over a better distribution of a small number of variants.

It's like bragging about your birthdate. It's not indicative of success.

oonowindoo

while you said is true. but it does not seem to work well in auto industry when you dont have enough chips on the table (minus Tesla since it is in a different market)

When you have too many models like BMW, it is not a good thing and the product will compete within itself but the overall sales # will not be affected as much.

Now, Acura has 2 selling SUV and 1 meh selling Sedan (TLX). Would it make sense to remove ILX and RLX all together and make it a brand with 3 models only?
Sometimes you need the non-selling models just because. It is all part of the brand recognition and perception building, except Acura has not done a good job in those for their slow selling models.

SSFTSX

Yes. Honda relied on Civic and Accord for 4 decades. I am not sure why it should add more. Nissan has Versa, Sentra, Altima, Maxima.

SSFTSX

They need to add two more SUV models and wait for next iteration of ILX and RLX. Next ILX will be so much better that it may make TLX redundant.

oonowindoo

and while you solved 1 problem, you just created another. Think before you speak!

TacoBello

You forgot the Fit, dummy. Then there was the low selling Ridgeline. The low selling Element. The low selling Crosstour. The low selling CR-Z. The low selling...

SSFTSX

Fit and Crz were never sedan.

Costco

Why drink or do drugs, when I can read your posts and kill brain cells that way for free?

I should start doing what you do. When someone refutes something I say with a good explanation or argument, I'll just move the goalposts or change the subject to something totally irrelevant and it will just confuse the shit out of them. In the end, I win

TacoBello

who cares if they're sedans. It makes 0.01% difference when it comes to speed and aerodynamics. You were talking about Honda's bread and butter cars. The Fit IS one of Honda's bread and butter cars. Quit changing the debate to suit your needs. You still look like an utter moron.

Last I checked, the Versa comes in hatchback form also

SSFTSX

Two more crossovers.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...jing-auto-show

TOKYO -- Honda Motor Co., which is already outpacing industry growth in China, aims to spur sales by tapping the shift to crossovers with two new entries at this month’s Beijing auto show.

The Honda brand will introduce the production version of a new crossover developed for the China market. The vehicle is based on the ruggedly sculpted Concept D shown as last year’s Shanghai show.

At the time, Honda said the production version will be a top-end crossover positioned as the brand’s “new flagship model” in China. It will feature high-quality driving dynamics and a spacious cabin.

The vehicle is expected to be sold through the carmaker’s two local channels, Guangqi Honda and Dongfeng Honda. At the Beijing show, press days for which begin April 25, the vehicle will be displayed on the Guangqi Honda stand, Honda said.

Meanwhile, Honda’s premium Acura brand will amplify the crossover theme with its own new compact crossover.

Acura did not disclose its name or details. But the vehicle is expected to be developed for China, possibly sharing some underpinnings of the Honda HR-V compact crossover.

The company says it will be the first Acura vehicle manufactured in China, the world’s largest auto market.

Gaining traction in China is key to generating the volume needed to support development of Acura’s pricey, technology-heavy lineup. The brand is sold mainly in the U.S. and spreads limited resources across a six-vehicle lineup, including the r&d-intensive NSX sports car that went on sale in February.

The Acura entry is expected to showcase the brand’s new “precision crafted performance” design language. The styling debuted in the Precision Concept at January’s Detroit auto show.

At the 2013 Shanghai show, Acura unveiled the Acura Concept SUV-X which possibly foreshadows the upcoming crossover. That marked the first time Acura premiered a concept model outside of North America. The company said then that a production version of the SUV-X would go on sale in China in about three years.

Honda Motor Co. is among the Japanese auto companies booking solid sales gains in China, despite cooling demand there.

Honda brand passenger vehicle sales climbed 40 percent to 139,015 units in the first two months of the year, thanks partly to its solid crossover lineup, according to LMC Automotive. The overall passenger vehicle market rose only 7 percent.

TacoBello

2G TSX is worst car. Such low quality of Honda. Poor fuel economic. Poor aerodynamic. Poor fit and finish interior. Looks like lower class Honda Fit interior. Such unrefined garbage.

AZuser

China built crossover they will fall part with time. certainly not quality. if i am going to spend $xxx on vehicle. than it not need to built by Chinese cutting corners using lead-tainted materials

those claims of top end flagship crossover is hore dung. Toyota is global crossover and SUV king with transaction prices well above $100k.

this more like cheap China built CUV. and certainly its not most rugged or capable CUV either. try them in sand dunes of arabia and see how long it last.

biker

SSFTSX

These are $30 to $50k class crossovers so comparision with $100k SUV is irrelevant. Honda didnot claimed most capable SUV either.
Tesla is selling egg shaped minivan called Model X at price above $100k.

AZuser

TacoBello

Yeah, and it sells better than the ILX, RLX, CR-Z and any Hybrid Honda, put together!

YEH

I've stated this to the blowhole previously, but he only remembers what he wants to remember.

Honda has done very well with its core lineup, but has failed miserably when they have branched out.


LOL!

You only look at a deluded picture.

And how exactly will Hyundai lose a lot of $$ on the Genesis brand?

There's a reason why they are spinning off a luxury brand w/o building out a costly separate dealer network, so the only real expense is advertising which they would have had to do anyway on a model basis (will spend more, but have more models on the way).

The Genesis sedan is on track to hit the 30k sales mark in the US.

For March, Hyundai sold 10,216 of the Genesis/G80 and Equus/G90 in Korea and the US (how many RLX's did Honda sell?).

Toyota doesn't get sales figures like that for the GS and LS in Japan and the US.

If the upcoming Genesis G70 looks anything like the New York concept, it should sell at least well as the Genesis/G80.

The Genesis sedan lineup will not only outsell Acura's in the US, but worldwide as well (in Australia, the Genesis sedan outsold the Infiniti lineup for 2015).

Once the G90 hits US lots and Kia gets the next gen K900 and its G80 equivalent, H/K mid-upper RWD sales should nearly double.


A pick-up is on the way (and it'll sell better than the Ridgeline) - but does that have to do with whether Hyundai makes or loses $$ on the Genesis brand?


Again, what does this have to do w/ the topic at hand?

And that's not why Honda delayed its hybrid.

The Ioniq has gotten pretty good early reviews, in fact, better reviews than for the HR-V (for within its segment).

SSFTSX

Honda delayed Hybrid because Gas prices are low. Honda is not run by donkeys that it has to copy and introduce hybrid for sake of hybrid.
This Genesis brand is bankrupting Hyundai. and with no prospect of separate dealership. it will be a loser. without separate dealership Premium brand cannot exist.

oonowindoo

Yup that is the reason. So Toyota should have delayed their Prius because the gas price is too low for it to sell..... oops it is selling.... very well.

YEH

^ Not surprisingly, resident troll has zero clue about what he is talking about.

The hybrid Accord never sold in large #s (in part due to price, battery pack taking too much of the trunk space, not living up to its claimed EPA mileage rating and Honda limiting production).

The Accord hybrid went away b/c Honda moved production to Japan and not b/c it had anything to do w/ fuel prices.

Forecasts show that fuel prices are to remain low for the forseeable future, so Honda bringing back the Accord hybrid now has nothing to do w/ fuel prices.

Same goes for the new PHEV and EV Clarity models that will be launched next year.

Honda took the time to rework the Accord hybrid a bit - they weren't sitting on the tech as doing so would have run the risk of making it not competitive.

Last month, Hyundai sold 1,884 of the Sonata hybrid (beating Camry hybrid sales) and Toyota sold 3k of the RAV-4 hybrid.

Seems to me that despite low fuel prices, there are still sales to be had when it comes to hybrids.

Guess GM should have sat on the new Volt until fuel prices go back up and miss out on the increase in Volt sales (last month, up 65%).

As for Genesis, Honda wishes it could sell as many luxury sedans as Hyundai does (soon will apply to Kia as well).

When Genesis gets its full lineup - should sell as well as Acura in the US (and a lot better worldwide) and at a higher ATP.

SSFTSX

Sonata hybrid is slow as hell.
Accord hybrid has now 212 bhp with refinement surpassing V6 Accord. Accord hybrid is about performance and Japanese quality. it has nothing to with fuel prices.

When I was referring to fuel prices. I was mentioning Prius competitor. Honda does not need to compete in that segment. Only stupid hyundi can copy Toyota without resources of Toyota.

jwong77

Somebody has their panties in a bunch now!

YEH

^ He's just sore that Acura is competing more with Buick these days.

ILX - Verano
TLX - Regal
RLX - (an exception - as it competes with the XTS)

CDX - Encore
RDX - Envision
MDX - Enclave

Anyhow, didn't realize that hybrid buyers were concerned w/ 0-60 times considering the Prius is slow as heck (10.5s).

And 8.1s (C&D) is quick enough for most and the thing that matters more is sales.

The Fusion hybrid is a second slower and yet, it's also one of the top selling hybrid versions of mainstream, midsize sedans.

As usual, the resident troll brings up a totally irrelevant point whenever he gets schooled (that Honda delayed the Accord hybrid due to low gas prices excuse is as good as his RLX sales are so low b/c Honda wants to keep it exclusive).

Like I had stated - for March, Hyundai sold 10,216 of the Genesis/G80 and Equus/G90 in Korea and the US. I'll bet that is many multiples more than what Honda sells of the RLX worldwide for the entire year.

SSFTSX

Sonata hybrid is extremely slow 0-100mph. Accord hybrid is even faster than Sonata 2.0T. Accord hybrid is all about performance and refinement. that's why it need Japan build quality.



Honda can sell more Vezel in Japan alone than all your Genesis brand. that's where the profits are. HRV globally beginning to accelerate.
Honda deep R&D and well developed industries in globally will sustain it to produce the high tech models. compete with Tesla and McLaren at same time.
new MDX hybrid will beat X5 hybrid/Q7 3.0T.

TacoBello

You're a fucking retard. I think you just so happened to forget that Hyundai is a multi billion dollar shipping magnate. Cars are but a small fraction of what they do, and yet, they continue to do them very very well, year after year.

But you're right, it's better to do what Honda does- be the sore thumb of all auto manufacturers and continue blazing down a path of failed cars. Hyundai doesn't even compete with Honda. Hyundai bitch slapped the shit out of Honda and moved on to the big fish. Say and think what you want, but Hyundai isn't going anywhere besides up.

Another Honda failure? The 2G TSX. It's such a big piece of shit, Honda had to kill it off and join it with another car just to save face. The 1G TSX was a great success for Honda, and then they bloated it into a whale of a car while giving it no more power (save for the top end v6, which was only available with a autotragic transmisssion).

TacoBello

This guy. He's a comedian.

SSFTSX

Hyundi shipping will be in doldrums as Chinese move up the Chain. SK simply don't have demographic to compete.
They need external help. this thing was written in 2004.

Want Innovation? Hire A Russian - Bloomberg

2G great success as it was keep in lineup for 6 years without major updates and still have sky high resale values.

YEH

Doing 0-100 in 22.1s is hardly extremely slow.


And oh, the Sonata Eco w/ the 1.6T did 0-60 in 6.7s - faster than the Accord Sport manual (7.0s) and a lot faster than the Accord 2.4L CVT (7.6s).

But what does that all matter?

The Accord hybrid has sold a fraction of what the Sonata hybrid has sold, much less the Sonata and Optima hybrids.


By all accounts, the Vezel/HR-V has an unrefined ride, etc. - and who cares? It's not a luxury model (nor is the upcoming Acura version - not a real luxury model anyways).

Who cares about a cheap econobox, much less its tarted up version?

It's this the best thing you have left to counter the argument that Honda luxury sedan sales (esp. at the higher end of the market) are in the toilet? lol



One could get an RLX later in 2014 for $10k off MSRP.




Having a near 250 day supply is not good no matter how one slices it and even a near 100 day supply is not good considering the low sales volume.

Oh wait - what ever happened to RLX sales being low due to lack of supply?

Absolutely zero credence behind that claim, just as there was zero credence about the claim that RLX sales would increase once the hybrid version with SH-AWD was launched (I disputed the notion that RLX sales would rise much, if any) when in actuality, sales have declined.

2013 - 5,053 (includes leftover RL sales)
2014 - 3,413 (includes leftover RL sales)
2015 - 2,195
2016 - 331 YTD (on track to sell a measly 1,324)

The RLX has been an unmitigated disaster for Honda; they thought the RL was problematic but at least the RL once sold over 17k units,another time over 10k and 4-5 times over 5k.

And it will only get worse for the RLX with the G90, CT6 and new Continental and S90 hitting the market.

Again, Hyundai sold 10,216 of the Genesis/Equus/G90inthe US and Korea for March.

Acura sold a whopping 364 of the RLX in the US and Canada. Add Japanese Legend sales and likely still won't have hit the 1k mark for the month.

So again - which was the better investment? (And that's not including G90 sales in NA, much less the next gen K900 and production version of the Kia GT sales.)

TacoBello

I've decided that YEH's new AZ screen name should be "TrollDisruptor9000"

And it shows how delusional SSFTSX is. From what I can find, Acura sold 187,223 TSXs between 2003 and 2008. On the other hand, Acura sold 144,297 TSXs between 2009 and 2014. Yeah, what a real sales success the 2G TSX was.

What we also don't know is how many 1G TSXs were sold in 2009 and maybe even 2010, so thereby the actual 2G TSX sales number would be even lower than what's posted. But you know, what's at least 43,000 units, between friends?

SSFTSX

2G TSX came out in April 2008 when global financial crises began. It performed very well sells wise. since your completed deaf to history.

SSFTSX

its slow for its price point and not that fuel economic and refinement at Accord level. the new 212 bhp Accord will blow it out of water.

Again comparing CVT Accord with heavir tires from 2013 tech with 7DCT 1.6turbo. and still Accord wins decisively at 0-100mph race.
Wait once Honda put its DCT with 1.5 turbo.
Just to give you power of DCT. TLX DCT 0-100mph in 17.9 second. The car that is 300lbs heavier than Sonata Eco with bigger wider tires.
2015 Acura TLX 2.4L Test ? Review ? Car and Driver


Sonata turbo. 0-100mph in 18.4 second. TLX demolish Sonata turbo at 0-120mph. A light weight TLX with 1.5 turbo and DCT will be in different league. So don't ever compare high speed refinement and cruising speed.
2015 Hyundai Sonata Eco Test ? Review ? Car and Driver


Now they will build more and surely will outperform.

It is sought after model and this quickest sale time on lot. no discounts whats so ever. ATP prices are higher than Accord.
Hyundi is not a luxury brand. Hyundai NVH levels are below TLX and dealership network is not upto Acura level. so you cannot even compare it.

RLX is still selling with 6speed auto and 3.5J series engine. Only Hybrid version has new tech. disaster is when you create V8 engine and RWD and still cannot sell.
Show me Honda investment in RLX that you claiming it is disaster.?. You have no understanding of investment in new platforms, engines and transmission. Just babbling randomly this and that sells more. your arguments are very shallow.
it make not iota of difference how much RLX sells. as there is no separate Platform, engine, transmission. it is the older Accord platform. Honda has factories and products at right places and right time. It is not depended on Fleet sales or discounts. it already has dealership network for Premium brand. which Hyundai cannot afford.

YEH

Not really, as it is less expensive than the Accord hybrid.

And there is little separating the top offerings in the midsize sedan segment these days.

Some say the Sonata has the better ride and quieteness.


You really think buyers in this segment care about 0-60 times, much less 0-100 times? lmao


Honda's DCT hasn't exactly been free of problems.


So are you now saying the Sonata is comparable to the TLX? lol (My how the TLX/Acura have fallen.)

IMO, that would be a stretch, the SXL trim of the Optima otoh...


Never stated that it was.

Which is why they are launching the Genesis brand.

Please - the RLX (the Acura flagship) got dinged in reviews for its ride and NVH, in contrast to the Genesis/G80.

And the Genesis/G80 has gotten compared to the likes of the GS and CTS; the RLX not so much (would be compared to the XTS and MKS).

And I supposed the Legend in Japan isn't "luxury" since it is only adorned w/ the Honda badge.

Also, the Acura brand only exists in limited markets (not including its home/domestic market and the European market) - whereas, the Genesis brand will be worldwide.


Who cares? That's Honda's fault.

And you were confident in the RLX selling better than the RL, esp. when the hybrid version launched, but sales have only gotten worse.

What do you mean can't sell?

The Genesis was the 3rd best selling sedan in the midsize, RWD luxury sedan market in 2015 and for the past 2 months was the 2nd best seller and is on track to sell 30k for the year.

The RLX is on track to sell less than 4k.

Once Kia launches this...



may see the two do around 45k in sales.


Don't be such a nitwit (I know such a thing is real difficult for you).

Honda didn't get the sales it wanted with the RL - expected 20k in sales for the 2G RL (which was considered to be an attainable, but conservative goal - “That’s reasonably conservative...” - John Watt, manager-Acura product planning).

To be fair, the 2G did hit 17k in its 1st year, but after that, sales just slid (11.5k - 2nd yr) and kept on sliding all the way to a whopping total of 379 in 2012.

But Honda didn't even get anywhere close to the early 2G RL sales figures with the RLX.

It took the 2G RL 3-4 years before it dropped down to the 5k sales mark (the 1st and best sales yr for the RLX) and 5 years before the 2G RL dropped down to the 2k sales mark (the RLX did it in its 3rd year).


If you really believe that, you're dumber than rocks.

It still took $$ to design and develop the RLX and to tool the factory and advertise.

One of the most cost-worthy and profit-sucking things in the automotive industry is not running a production line (or factory) at or close to full capacity (if can exceed 100% capacity by adding a 3rd shift, even better).

And only you would be dumb enough to bring up the whole not having discounts thing (like you did w/ the lack of supply claim) when I just proved that the RLX had huge discounts on it and Honda still couldn't move the metal.



The discount later in 2014 hit 10k.